On society, beauty, and pageant winners

[authoress]

What wonderful articles about Susan Boyle ... thanks so much for
posting them.

This whole thing just makes me want to spit nails. And it's the very
reason I got into a heated disagreement with an acquaintance who asked
me to do PR for the Miss Michigan "scholarship" pageant. She wanted me
to help change the image so it wasn't perceived as a beauty contest.

Say what??? My mouth dropped to the floor.

"It IS a beauty pageant!" I retorted.

She stuck her chin in the air and gave me a defiant look. "No, it USED
to be a beauty pageant, now it's a scholarship pageant."

I stared in total disbelief.

"Okay, so if it's not a beauty pageant, then why is every single girl
who participates thin as a rail and drop-dead gorgeous?"

She had no answer for that one, so I continued my provocative line of
questioning.

"And if it's not a beauty pageant, then why do the girls who
participate have to parade around the stage wearing teensy-weensy
swimsuits?"

More defiance, more chin-sticking-out. "That is out of our control; it
is a requirement of the Miss America organization."

I should have stopped right there. I really, really should have.

But I didn't.

"So, from what you're telling me, a girl who has a 4.0+ grade average
all through school, is a national merit scholar, does charitable work
for a number of organizations, mentors troubled kids, plays the piano
or violin like a maestro, but is overweight and/or unattractive, that
girl could win the Miss Michigan 'Scholarship' pageant?"

She gave me a smile that was somewhere between condescending and
pitiful, and almost knocked me over with her response.

"Well you know ... those types of girls probably wouldn't want to
enter a competition like this."

Yes. She. Actually. Said. That.

I just stared in shocked silence. I simply did not know what to say in
response to such an ungodly ignorant statement so I turned and walked
out the door without a word.

See, here's the deal. I have no problem with beauty pageants in
general, although I certainly never wanted my daughters to participate
in them. Nor do I have a problem with girls winning money that they
can use to help pay for college. What I have a problem with is people
not calling these events what they are ... trying to shroud the whole
concept of winning money in exchange for beauty in a cloak of
deception by sticking the word "scholarship" in the middle of the
title. THAT's what I have a problem with, and it's a big one.

I have to end this now. Revisiting it has made me boil with anger all
over again, and I want it to be a happy day.

[Lake Shore Girl]

What bothers me about people who are completely hung up on their looks
is that it's such a superficial thing to be conceited about. I'm sure
we've all known some people who were physically attractive who were
also poor excuses for human beings.

The deal with being a beautiful young woman is that men automatically
jump do things for them, and such treatment can create an inflated
sense of self-importance as well as squelch the impulse to develop a
solid, good character.

Men can't help that they are visual creatures, and the automatic
spoiling of beautiful young women is probably hard-wired into their
DNA. Women, however, have complete control over whether they decide to
become good and decent people or get conceited because of the
attention.

We all get old, and if the only thing you have your ego based in, as a
woman, is your looks, eventually you'll be left with nothing.

[Omni]

I prefer the type of pageantry that involves my waving a dollar bill
and getting some sweater cows in my face as the end result...

But hey, to each their own.

[authoress]

I probably shouldn't laugh at this, but I did.

Jerk.

:-D

[mdancer]

Omni, I didn't understand your post, but pullllease don't explain
it! :D

A friend of mine once sent me an email about the percentage of
"pageant contestants" that had plastic surgery to give them perfect
noses, big boobs, liposuction, etc. I don't remember the numbers but
the percentages were absolutely staggering. Real women? Nope. No way.

Daughter was beautiful from the day she was born (the "Liv Tyler
Syndrome", how can a girl who looks so much like her Dad end up so
gorgeous?). A couple of my sisters suggested pageants and modelling.
Because she was a tomboy, I always said "no way!" I'm so glad I made
that decision. What's that MLK quote about "quality of character"?

[Omni]

> On Apr 20, 2:33 pm, authoress <authores...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > I probably shouldn't laugh at this, but I did.
>
> > Jerk.
>
> > :-D

----------------------------------------------------

LOL, good. I wrote it with a smile on my face. :o)

[Lake Shore Girl]

I can honestly say that I've never known a man NOT to smile upon
finding breasts in his face.

("Sweater Cows?" Are you KIDDIN' me?)

[Omni]

On Apr 21, 9:05 am, Lake Shore Girl <LkShoreG...@aol.com> wrote:

> ("Sweater Cows?" Are you KIDDIN' me?)

----------------------------------------------------

LOL, prefer 'Blouse Bunnies'? 'Dirty Pillows'? 'Jiggly Igloos'?
'Pink Nose Puppies'?

We can play this game all day... lol

[authoress]

Omni wrote:

> 'Dirty Pillows'?  

So THAT'S what the guy meant when I sashayed past him in the store.
Doggone it, I though he was talking about needing to do his laundry!

[MtRushmore]

My goodness ladies when is the next Feminists meeting in town so you
can bash men some more? A new revelation, guys enjoy looking at
beautiful women, what a shock. Stop the presses on that one. But
according to lake shore girl only women can control themselves.
Amazing only women can do that. Women never look at good looking guys.
If by some chance a guy catches a woman's fancy, he's always about 300
pounds. Because women are so open minded they don't have to look at
beautiful men. Because according to you guys it shouldn't matter. So
if any of you are single or want to sent up your friend on a date,
find an overweight man and see the reaction. Have your daughter marry
a person that size and please don't say it doesn't matter.
You want to see a chick flick with the leading man in the bedroom
scene having layers of fat on the big screen? If my daughter wanted to
do a contest I'd support her. Like I have supported all my children in
everything they tried. Do I agree with what your saying about SOME
guys going nuts about good looking women? Of course I do. Just as
women do over guys. Ever wonder why 40% of babies are born out of
wedlock in this country? But it goes both ways, I've been in places
where those "dolls" have never gave the time of day to some guys.

[authoress]

You're all over the place here, sorta like someone who's got a pistol
in his right hand and a Glock in his left and comes in shooting like
crazy. Just so you know, I'm not a feminist. Also, I haven't bashed
any men, not here or elsewhere. In fact, I was joking back and forth
with Omni about his posts because they were funny. I tend to pick on
women as well as men, which is why I'm often considered "one of the
guys." I can call hockey plays and cuss out the refs with the best of
'em. My only problem is I can bat a ball like a champ but I throw and
catch like a girl so no one wants me on their team. Also I can't do
that thumb-and-finger-at-the-mouth whistle thing, which seriously
ticks me off.

Take a deep breath and lighten up a tad.

[Omni]

On Apr 22, 1:24 pm, authoress <authores...@gmail.com> wrote:
Also I can't do
> that thumb-and-finger-at-the-mouth whistle thing, which seriously
> ticks me off.

LOL, you have no idea how often I have sat at home alone and tried to
do that and just end up with 'spitty fingers'.

[Lake Shore Girl]

Wow, you should go back and re-read what I said, slowly and carefully
this time, because I didn't bash any men. I was holding attractive
women accountable for their character building (or lack thereof).

Try not to misquote people. It will help the credibility of your
posts.

On Apr 22, 12:00 pm, MtRushmore <dabears...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[mdancer]

Welcome to mpolitics, MtRushmore!

Like others have said, the only man that was getting bashed was poor
Omni for his sweater comment :D But he knows we're teasing

And you are right, beauty is in the heart and it doesn't matter if
you're male or female. I'm sure each of us women can tell a story of
a bad experience dating "eye candy"......

The very best boyfriend Daughter ever had was shorter than her and
overweight, but what a charmer he is!

On Apr 22, 12:00 pm, MtRushmore <dabears...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Doggone it, I though he was talking about needing to do his laundry!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[authoress]

> The very best boyfriend Daughter ever had was shorter than her and
> overweight, but what a charmer he is!

Oh honey, I can soooo relate. We need to talk sometime ... for so
many, many reasons.

[Lake Shore Girl]

I've dated short, overweight men too, because I enjoyed their
company.

A guy who is fun, respectful, mature, well-grounded and has a good
moral compass is what I need. (Well that, and I have to add sexual
compatibility to the "must have" list, and before anyone says
anything, great sex is about attitude, not equipment.) If the guy is
also hot-n-handsome looking, BONUS MULTIPLIER, BABY!

On the other hand, I want no part of a great-looking man who is any
level of jerk.

[MtRushmore]

Man oh man or should I say woman since it seems it's mostly females
here. Came over from mlive to see how this place is since the other
place is filled with folks who don't debate. But I guess we have
Rhodes Scholars here instead. Guess I'm misquoting people when I never
quoted them in the first place. No man bashing? Men can't help their
visual creatures. They jump for beautiful women. Never known a man not
to smile to have breasts in his face,
I'm wrong doesn't sound anything like it. You ladies must be
remarkable, Saints or telling lies. Remember the old SNL skit with
Patrick Swayze and Chris Farley as Chippendale dancers? Forget who
they are in real life, I know one's dead, but you knew nothing about
them. Except how they looked. Pick one. Come on be honest pick one.
Yea right me too I'd pick the fat one also, right.

[authoress]

Hey, how did you know we're all Rhodes Scholars???

That's darned amazing!

[kiata77]

You must associate with some very narrow minded people MtR. I've been
married for over 28 years to a man who never was good looking
according to society's standards but he treats me like a queen and
spoils me rotten. People asked me when I married him what I saw in
him. They were the kind of people who judged on looks alone. You are
assuming that all people never look past the outside package. The
bottom line is that I dont care what Susan Boyle looks like. I love
her singing and would listen to it over and over.

On Apr 22, 12:00 pm, MtRushmore <dabears...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Lake Shore Girl]

MtR, are you a man or a woman?

I ask because you type more like an outraged woman than a man, so I'm
not sure which you are. That matters for how I phrase my response, so
I'll assume, alternately, that you're both.

Saying men are visual is not man-bashing. Men ARE visual. (In general.
Of course there may be exceptions.) I am making a statement of fact
and not attaching any value judgment to it.

Playfully saying that I've never known a man not to smile to have
breasts in his face? That's also true. I'm talking about the men I've
personally known. Perhaps, if you are a man, you are different.
Perhaps, if you are a woman, you've never put your breasts in a man's
face and observed the instant smile reaction.

And sure, I've dated overweight and unattractive men because they had
some other personal quality I was attracted to. Why don't you believe
that?

Some men think they've been rejected by a woman because of their
weight or looks, but usually that's not the reason. If they get
dumped, it more likely has something to do with their personality.
I've found that with overweight and unattractive men, they can be very
insecure. That's generally the dealbreaker, the insecurity, because it
causes them to act like complete jerks. I'm not sure if they were
overweight because they were insecure, or insecure because they were
overweight, but in my experience the two went together.

Maybe you don't believe I've dated unattractive men because you are a
man and you're visual. Maybe you don't believe it because you're a
woman and won't date them yourself. I don't know. You tell me.

On Apr 23, 2:49 am, MtRushmore <dabears...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[authoress]

Outraged women.

Lord they scare me.

[moonbeam]

I have been reading these posts and would like to get in on the
action. :-) As far as the man topic goes, here is my opinion only. My
boss, who is a man that doesn't have any problem in the getting a
woman (or several) department. It is just the two of us here so we
have many male/female discussions and we agree that a man is usually
hungry or horny. They are not real complicated creatures by any means,
food (beer) and sex that is what mostly drives them. LOL
As far as Susan Boyle goes, she seems like a very lovely person and
someone is probably going to get a hold of her for some sort of ambush
makeover that will forever change her. I personally think she is great
just the way that she is. The short clip that I saw of her I thought
that she had very kind eyes and I fear for her getting caught up in
the entertainment business.
I, like everyone else if they are honest, am guilty of looking at the
outside package. One example is when the band Buck Cherry came out and
the first time that they came on the radio. I really liked them and
still do. Fast forward to the first video that I saw them in I said
out loud to my husband "Man I'm bummed I really hoped that he (the
singer) would be good looking. I personally do not think that he is
but I really like his voice. That is the first thing that came to my
mind when this Susan Boyle and what she looked like subject came up.
I wanted to keep going with this post and include beauty pagents but I
ran out of time for right now. I hope everyone has a great day.

> > > > > many, many reasons.- Hide quoted text -

[Lake Shore Girl]

On Apr 23, 8:56 am, authoress <authores...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Outraged women.
>
> Lord they scare me.

It depends on why they're outraged, but yeah; if the outrage isn't
over something legitimate, it's like they check their brains at the
door and run on either pure idiocy or pure evil. Insecure women
aren't much better.

I could say they give all of us a bad name, but hey, if they want to
remove themselves from consideration by the good men of this world, I
say let them. There are enough not-good men out there that they can
(please!) take.

[MtRushmore]

Thought Carnac the Magnificent died when Johnny Carson did, but his
spirit lives in this room. Women can read my mind, my emotions
(outraged), damn even if sex. I'll give my name up. It's Perez Hilton.
I want my 15 minutes and if someone doesn't agree with my values I'll
call her a B or maybe a C. Funny when you fine ladies were talking
about Beauty shows and Boyle why not defend the attack on Miss
California? Even the media made a "star" and thought it was ok for
this queen to get away with it and call this young woman a name.
Funny no women groups defended her, must like Palins attacks. But
make a little fun of Helen Thomas and all the groups come out. Back to
my original question that nobody answered. Sawyze or Farley?
Now here's a shocker for you guys. Some men are PIGS, some. Just as
some women are sluts. I'm not going to try to give a % on either side.
And I've always looked at things from a different view all my life
than most. Like commercials, ever see a plain looking woman selling a
sports car or any item like that? Car shows, who is the model? Middle
age over weight, over worked Mom? No super thin,(too thin) beautiful
face, long legged Goddess.
But in a commercial for cleaning a toilet? Plain Jane, not putting
down here you know, the blue collar type. Listen when "us guys" talked
playing poker and someone brought up who we'd like to "do" or the most
beautiful woman in the world. Most would give the pat answers, mine
would always be my wife. Even when we both gained weight, if the
person you married isn't "that" person. Then in my mind, maybe I'm a
little off here, but in my heart if you don't feel that way about your
wife something is wrong.

[moonbeam]

That is great that when asked by other men about who you would like to
"do" it is your wife. I am sorry that this conversation is getting you
so upset. Given the choice of Swayze or Farley for me I would of
picked Farley. I say this honestly because I have said that I would
marry Dave Chappell. No, not because I think he is good looking
because I don't think that he is but he makes me laugh. That man
cracks me up. Like your post not everyone can be lumped into one
group. Sure some men are jerks and some women are sluts and some women
would pick the nice guy that makes them laugh instead of the "pretty
boy" whatever it may be, is it really that important? We are a
beautiful people driven society, end of story. I don't think that it
is right but it is what it is.
I will repeat what I try and say when getting into these type of
conversations I only speak for myself. As far as the pagent thing with
that dude that isn't even clever enough to come up with an original
name, I don't give a shit less what he has to say about anyone. The
point that I think is being overlooked here is that the judge asked
her a question and she gave her answer. How can her answer be wrong?
It is the way that she feels and the way that she believes, how can
that be a wrong answer? I give her respect for standing up for what
she believes in regardless of the outcome (losing the pagent) and then
not back peddling and making excuses for what she said but standing by
it. I am not saying either way if I agree with her or not just that I
respect her for doing so.

> > > > > many, many reasons.- Hide quoted text -

[MtRushmore]

There you go again with reading minds. Where in anything have I
written is there a sign that I'm upset? God and people wonder why men
drink and go out at night. Your the type who does it to guys. In
picking between the 2 guys I said forget who they were. Just by their
looks pick one. So like some here telling me that I misquoted them,
you did the same to me. Plus your acting holier than thou thinking
Swayze might not be as funny as Farley.
So your assuming, and how do u spell that word, something without
knowing the facts. Plus your acting like women never sit around
talking who they'd like to "DO". I'll accept your opinion on the
contest, but I'm still wondering where was the outrage from the
feminist groups? They seemed to be silent when women on the right are
attacked. Boy I hope this wasn't a rage just because I had fire coming
out of my nose and steam out of my ears. All my women friends and
sisters would get a kick out of you you guys. Oh last thing. My best
friend is a woman. Oh no wait I better stop before I get my guns out
and really get into a full blown rage.
Really I love you guys. Your funny and for some reason mad about
something. Some people always have to be angry about something because
their life didn't turn out the way they wanted it to be. Hey that was
fun. Reading minds just like a woman. I can get use to that. HEHE

[MtRushmore]

Sorry, mentioned my women friends and sisters. But forgot to mention
my two beautiful daughters.

[moonbeam]

I am truly sorry that I misread or misunderstood what you wrote. I was
going on who the two men were and as I had never seen Swayze do stand
up comedy (or any comedy that I can remember) that is where my "holier
than thou" assumption that he was not as funny as Farly came from, but
again I apologize for my misunderstanding.
Oh I would never say (or act like) that women don't sit around and
talk about who they would "do". Are you kidding me? I have said many
times if you want to hear very raunchy talk get a group of women
together talking about men and sex, so your bad on that one and making
assumptions.
It must just be the whole venus/mars thing at work here.

On Apr 23, 2:42 pm, MtRushmore <dabears...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Lake Shore Girl]

MtR, I can't say that I understood this entire post, but I'll never
argue with a man who admits he's hot for his wife.

I do want to ask why is it that a woman is a "slut" if she likes sex
with different partners, but a man isn't? Don't we, as women, have
just as much right to choose the number and variety of our partners as
men do? (Just as both sexes have the equal right to choose celibacy or
monogamy.)

If it's consenting adults and nobody is being coerced, it's all good.

[moonbeam]

LSG
Is this topic going to go to the "dark side" or is that only for the
spicy topic?
LOL

> > > > > > many, many reasons.- Hide quoted text -

[Particles]

MtRushmore reads suspiciously a lot like our old friend racer,
couldn't comprehend his rants either.

[MtRushmore]

Now I'm being compared to another guy. Guess anyone who posts here
who isn't female is ranting according to particles. You pick that name
why? Too mush space in your head and particles just floating around?
Guess your the dike here.

[Lake Shore Girl]

Wow, how rude you are. If you don't like it here, you're welcome to go
elsewhere. It's a big internet. We were doing just fine before you
showed up with your poor reading comprehension and incoherent,
unformatted rants.

And it's properly written: "YOU'RE the DYKE here."

[Particles]

Haha someone who can't write a comprehensive rant is trying to insult
my intelligence? And what exactly is a dike?

Ohhhh are you calling me a dyke?

That's o.k. I've been called a lot worse.

On Apr 23, 6:32 pm, MtRushmore <dabears...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[moonbeam]

Wow this topic took a turn that went way wrong. MtRushmore, did you
come here to just get into it with some women? No matter what any of
us say you have some sort of man-chip on your shoulder. What in the
world would it matter if anyone here were gay? Why would that add
anything to the converstation if it is true or not? You claim to have
all of these women in your life that you are so close to and so in
tune with and then you spew something like that, I don't buy it.

> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Lake Shore Girl]

Check out his post over on TT. It's "Muskhero." He's talking about
how we're a bunch of harpies, LOL.

[moonbeam]

I didn't see it, was it deleted already? I am probably banned right
now because all of my posts calling eazy out to say that he was wrong
got deleted.
Some people. He (MtR/or whoever) was all offended when Particles said
that he sounded like someone else, but supirse he is someone else. I
don't really give a shit what this person (or anyone else for that
matter) thinks about me. That is one reason I am always the same
person using the same name. Ok, not always on occasion I have used a
name during a ban but I always say things to let everyone know who I
am. I am not hiding anything and I usually enjoy most of the
conversations in here and in TT. Well with that rant I will say that I
hope you all have a great day and I can't wait to enjoy the great
weather this weekend.

[Omni]

On Apr 23, 7:45 pm, Lake Shore Girl <LkShoreG...@aol.com> wrote:

> And it's properly written: "YOU'RE the DYKE here."

Which reminds me of one of my favorite sayings...

"I'm busier than a dyke in a hardware store."



Also, am I the only one that believes MtR is learning disabled? I
don't understand where/why the fricken fight started!

[mpolitcs mpolitics]

You could call it the "Thursday Night Massacre". Several threads were deleted overnight.