Preferred Matrix Board for CobraPin

[Bob P]

Is there a board that most people use?

Where to get ? 

Hopefully available in Canada 

(or through Amazon or e-bay) 

[Johan Gill]

Cobra Amusements at pinside https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1254-cobra-amusements, he ships internationally. If it's lamp matrix you are after, check out his xpansion board. I have it but haven't tried it with a lamp matrix, yet...

 https://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php?title=CobraPin#Lamp_Matrix_Numbering

Cheers.

/Gill

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[Bob P]

I don't see anything called a lamp matrix on the site.

Is this what I need for  more switches? 

I'm just trying to code eightball by Bally which is a simple game and I'm one switch short even without any lights yet which seems a bit odd 

[Ralf G.]

Bob,

are you looking for a switch matrix, or a lamp matrix? The former is already on the main Cobra board. If you are one switch short using direct switches, you may want to configure the Cobra to use a switch MATRIX rather than the direct switches.

Ralf

[Johan Gill]

I linked for the lamp matrix on Pinballmakers in last post. If you need more switch inputs either use a switch matrix on the Cobra pin mainboard or just get the satellite (or xpansion) board for more inputs.

/Gill

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[Bob P]

the main cobra board just has the plugs. Don't I need an actual board?

[Bob P]

no lamp matrix comes up on that link

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 4:35:36 PM UTC-4 jo...@gill.nu wrote:

[cobra18t]

This link shows all the CobraPin products. The main link Gill sent sometimes doesn't show all the products since it is more of a shop highlight page:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1254-cobra-amusements/all

The main CobraPin board can host an 8x8 switch matrix. https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1254-cobra-amusements/05162-cobrapin-pinball-controller

The CobraPin Xpansion board can host an 8x8 lamp matrix. https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1254-cobra-amusements/05229-cobrapin-xpansion-board

You can use the two boards independent of each other--they are not required to be used together.

I am a bit low on main boards, Satellite, and Xpansion boards. I should be restocked in 1-2 weeks.

[Bob Prince]

i still don’t see any matrices on those links.

i know the main cobra board can host an 8x8 switch, that’s what i’m looking for and what my original post was asking where i can find one

On Aug 12, 2023, at 8:19 PM, cobra18t <tfule...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[cobra18t]

Are you looking for a board with a matrix of switches on it? What is your use case?

Normally, people wire up their own switches since it is so dependent on your layout.

It seems like we have been answering how to host a matrix and you are asking for a matrix itself, which usually does not come in board form. Could you try asking a different way because I am honestly confused.

Since I am confused, I will also include this informational page on a switch matrix even though you probably know it: https://www.flippers.be/basics/101_switch_matrix.html

[Todd Legere]

[Todd Legere]

Bob,

A picture can be worth a thousand words. You mentioned running out of switches (Not exactly sure what you ment by that).

In the picture above you can see the 8x8 switch matrix (for 64 switches ) and 3 banks of additional switches. To run your playfield lights I typically remove them and replace them with Serial LEDs.

Let us know what you are trying to do and we can assist.

[Bob P]

Ok, let me start again.

I am trying to program a very simple game, 8 Ball by Bally.

I have the CobraPin main board but I have already used all the 20+ "direct switches" shown in the diagram and I'm one short, and still have lights to add.

I know I can add more "direct switches" using the 2 "Switch Matrix" connectors, or I can buy a satellite or an expansion board but my understanding is that I can also utilize something called a "Switch Matrix" (circled in red) that will give me (8x8) 64 additional switches.

Is this not a physical board of some sort? and my question is where can one purchase this? 

I want to use the "Switch Matrix" to address any possible future expansion possibilities.    

As for playfield lighting, my understanding is i can wire the original lights with "direct switches" or use programmable Serial LED's.

For the latter, can you use typical RGB strip led lights or do they have to be a specific type of led?  

Another thing I found odd is that the basic CobraPin board allows for 20+ coils. I find this odd as that would be a great deal.

It would have been far better to use that space on the board for more "direct switches.  

[Johan Gill]

Hi again. I would suggest that you read the cobra section at pinballmakers.com if you haven't. Heck, I read it probably >30 times myself. :D

If you already have the cobra board you can already use switch matrix, it's all about the wiring, it isn't a extra physical board. I believe Mr Cobra himself linked to a site explaining it. Think of it as a coordination system that's setup by your cables, 8 cables in rows and 8 cables in columns which gives 64 switch inputs.

If you can manage without a switch matrix you can use 38 direct switch inputs, easier and less cable management imho, also don't need to use diodes on switches, matrix switch is doable but imho it just complicate things if you really don't need it.

I'm not sure about your lamp question, I leave that to someone else. But I don't believe you can use your switch inputs for lamps, can't see how a switch input would be used as a lamp output.

You can't use "any" led strip if you want to control it.

""NeoPixel” is Adafruit's brand for individually-addressable RGB color pixels and strips based on the WS2812, WS2811 and SK6812 LED/drivers, using a single-wire control protocol." (Google answer). It's quite easy to wire in a series, I use a mixture of WS2811 and WS2812, they work great and are available on Amazon and a lot of other places.

Cheers.

/Gill

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[Bob P]

I guess I'm not understanding what a Switch Matrix is. It sounds like its more like a wiring technique for multiple switches ?

Is there any pictures of a pinball machine using an SW? that might help.

I have read the articles but I don't seem to be getting it :(

[Ernie Silverberg]

How many more switch inputs do you need currently?

If you’re having trouble understanding the switch matrix, I would stick with direct switches like you’ve Already done. The remaining 1-0- inputs can be used like the 0-0- ones you used so far.

Use ws2812 leds for the remaining lights. Cobrapin sells some, Amazon has strings of pixels that can be used as well. These are wired serially and then coded in mpf.

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[Bob P]

thanks everyone. 

sounds like better idea for me to use the remaining 1-0- inputs as direct switched. The SW sounds confusing. I guess I can always get a satellite or expansion board in the future if I need more switches

Thanks for the info on the lights too

[Bob P]

oh oh ....

having decided that it would be better to use the remaining 1-0- inputs as direct switches, i had ordered my Cobra board in the "standard no-glow" not the 

'direct" configuration. Is it still possible to use these 1-0-inputs as direct switches?

[Ernie Silverberg]

@cobra18t can send you a new stm32 that’s configured for direct. I think it’s like $8 + shipping. Super reasonable and should get you going.

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[Bob P]

I found these files on github. Looks like firmware for the various configs.

I can't just change the one I have?

[Ernie Silverberg]

They are but you have to have a special usb flasher to flash the firmware. Its a stm32 flashing device. 

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[Bob P]

You're kidding? Special hardware required just to re-flash??? 

They have USB ports. Can't re-flash via those? 

[cobra18t]

I need to make a video explaining switch matrices for those who are unfamiliar. Going to only direct inputs is fine if you need 38 inputs or less. You are right, a switch matrix is a wiring technique that uses switches and diodes. The matrix is actively scanned by the host controller to determine which switches are active. It is attractive from a controller perspective since 16 I/O lines can read 64 switches.

You consider 24 outputs to be excessive, but many people would disagree. The current setup was designed to handle a WPC era complexity machine.

You need an STM32 flasher to flash new firmware, but you do not need any extra hardware to load a new OPP Config. Loading a new config is all you need to do to convert to all Direct inputs. There is info on Pinball Makers previously linked by Gill for loading the config through USB. It is a little convoluted which is why I try to do it for customers. You can do it though.

[bobp...@rogers.com]

OPP - Pinball Makers

Is it the section starting with “Check Processor Configurations” to do this?

 

 

 

 

 

From: mpf-...@googlegroups.com <mpf-...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of cobra18t
Sent: August 13, 2023 10:51 PM
To: MPF Users <mpf-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [mpf-users] Preferred Matrix Board for CobraPin

 

I need to make a video explaining switch matrices for those who are unfamiliar. Going to only direct inputs is fine if you need 38 inputs or less. You are right, a switch matrix is a wiring technique that uses switches and diodes. The matrix is actively scanned by the host controller to determine which switches are active. It is attractive from a controller perspective since 16 I/O lines can read 64 switches.

 

You consider 24 outputs to be excessive, but many people would disagree. The current setup was designed to handle a WPC era complexity machine.

 

You need an STM32 flasher to flash new firmware, but you do not need any extra hardware to load a new OPP Config. Loading a new config is all you need to do to convert to all Direct inputs. There is info on Pinball Makers previously linked by Gill for loading the config through USB. It is a little convoluted which is why I try to do it for customers. You can do it though.

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 6:12:37 PM UTC-7 Bob P wrote:

You're kidding? Special hardware required just to re-flash??? 

They have USB ports. Can't re-flash via those? 

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 9:02:44 PM UTC-4 ernie.si...@gmail.com wrote:

They are but you have to have a special usb flasher to flash the firmware. Its a stm32 flashing device. 

 

On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 8:55 PM Bob P <bobp...@rogers.com> wrote:

I found these files on github. Looks like firmware for the various configs.

I can't just change the one I have?

 

 

 

 

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[Thomas Fulenwider]

I would start on the CobraPin page:

https://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php?title=CobraPin

More specifically, this section:

https://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php?title=CobraPin#STM32_Flashing_and_OPP_Configuration

Again, you can skip the flashing steps and only do the config steps. One of the linked pages there might help:

https://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Beginner%27s_Guide_to_STM32_flashing

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[bobp...@rogers.com]

I f I read all that correctly, I only have to revise the config file on Board 1 from “Standard” to “Direct”. Board 0 can stay the same. Correct ?

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[Thomas Fulenwider]

Yes, only Board 1 needs an updated config for Direct.

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[bobp...@rogers.com]

Great!

Thanks a bunch!

I’ll have at it and hopefully it goes ok!

 

From: mpf-...@googlegroups.com <mpf-...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Thomas Fulenwider
Sent: August 14, 2023 1:11 PM
To: mpf-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [mpf-users] Preferred Matrix Board for CobraPin

 

Yes, only Board 1 needs an updated config for Direct.

 

On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 9:52 AM <bobp...@rogers.com> wrote:

I f I read all that correctly, I only have to revise the config file on Board 1 from “Standard” to “Direct”. Board 0 can stay the same. Correct ?

 

 

From: mpf-...@googlegroups.com <mpf-...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Thomas Fulenwider
Sent: August 14, 2023 10:21 AM
To: mpf-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [mpf-users] Preferred Matrix Board for CobraPin

 

I would start on the CobraPin page:

https://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php?title=CobraPin

 

More specifically, this section:

https://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php?title=CobraPin#STM32_Flashing_and_OPP_Configuration

 

Again, you can skip the flashing steps and only do the config steps. One of the linked pages there might help:

https://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Beginner%27s_Guide_to_STM32_flashing

 

On Mon, Aug 14, 2023, 05:28 <bobp...@rogers.com> wrote:

OPP - Pinball Makers

Is it the section starting with “Check Processor Configurations” to do this?

 

 

 

 

 

From: mpf-...@googlegroups.com <mpf-...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of cobra18t

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[bobp...@rogers.com]

Ok I followed the instructions from here:

https://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php?title=Beginner%27s_Guide_to_STM32_flashing

 

Although I did have to install Python Version 2.7 first.

I installed it in a separate / different folder off the C:

 

Everything seemed to work ok configuring my Board 1, but when I go back to launch MPF I get this error message.

The Welcome slide comes up but not the game

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[Thomas Fulenwider]

Can you run "mpf hardware scan" from your game folder with CobraPin plugged in and post the output or error?

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[Bob Prince]

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 14, 2023, at 3:24 PM, Thomas Fulenwider <tfule...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[cobra18t]

What about the output of Gen2Test?

[Bob Prince]

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 14, 2023, at 3:38 PM, cobra18t <tfule...@gmail.com> wrote:

What about the output of Gen2Test?

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