Drop bank target - cant reset

[Todd Legere]

On ball_startup I want to standup my left and right bank drop targets.

All of my drop targets and banks are down yet it does not reset.

I have tested that all 4 reset coils work using mpf service command and can coil_pulse each individually.

Also I am running mpf both. I can start a game and flippers, jets, slingshots working in a game. Some thing seems to be telling the drop target bank that all targets are up even though they are down.

Do I need to software init each drop target in player_var and say its down or something ?

config file:

drop_target_banks:
  left_bank:
    drop_targets: left_drop1, left_drop2, left_drop3, left_drop4
    reset_coils: c_lbdropreset1, c_lbdropreset2
    reset_events:
      player_turn_will_start
    reset_on_complete: 1s
  right_bank:
    drop_targets: right_drop1, right_drop2, right_drop3, right_drop4
    reset_coils: c_rbdropreset1, c_rbdropreset2
    reset_events:
      player_turn_will_start   
    reset_on_complete: 1s

log file:

2021-08-31 22:29:47,006 : INFO : EventManager : Event: ======'game_started'====== Args={}
2021-08-31 22:29:47,023 : INFO : EventManager : Event: ======'player_turn_will_start'====== Args={'player': <Player 1>, 'number': 1}
2021-08-31 22:29:47,024 : INFO : drop_target_bank.left_bank : All targets are already up. Will not reset bank.
2021-08-31 22:29:47,024 : INFO : drop_target_bank.right_bank : All targets are already up. Will not reset bank.

[jabdoa]

How are your switches set up? Usually they are active when the drop is down. Are they active?

Jan

[Todd Legere]

The right and left drop target banks have 4 targets and 5 switches each (Target1, target2, target3, target4, targetseries (or all targets down))

If all 4 targets are down on a bank are down then switch targetseries is constantly on.

If I manually slide target1 up I can see the target1 switch light turn on in the mpf console, but the light goes off when the target is fully extented in the up position.

The same is true for the other 3 switches. My assumption is that the switch light in mpf console should remain on when the target is in the full upright position.

This is just an assumption and I don't know if that is correct.

[Todd Legere]

In other words when all 4 targets are down only targetseries switch is on, not target1 on target2 on, etc.

[Dan - aka BorgDog]

sounds like you need to put in a reset_events: into your bank configs and use your targetseries switch as the trigger(whatever event that gives). I don't think reset_on_complete will ever do anything in your scenario.

[jabdoa]

Switches need to be on/active when the drop target is down and off/inactive when the target is up. I bet that is different for your setup.

Jan

[Todd Legere]

Worn out switches or switch plate that the drop targets slides against? Maybe.

Each drop target has two reset coils.

[Todd Legere]

Ok perhaps the Williams system 4 drop targets bank of 4 does not behave the same way as other drop targets but here is what is in place on my machine.

Left Bank of 4 targets have these switches:

1) Target 1 Switch

2) Target 2 Switch

3) Target 3 Switch

4) Target 4 Switch

5) All targetsdown/targetseries switch

Behind the bank of droptarget switches (behind rubber rebound band) is a 6th switch Bank Standup switch

Instead of keeping all 4 targets active on, the switch plate only temporarily/momentarily turn on the individual target switch during its fall.

When the target finally rests on the bottom of its fall, the switch plate enable the switch path for the targetsdown/targetseries switch.

So for my case the indicator for all drop targets down is not the collection of all 4 drop targets on but rather the single targetsdown/targetseries switch on.

Is there any way I can change the drop bank target reset behavior to detect the single switch targetsdown/targetseries rather than the whole series of 4 ?

[Todd Legere]

So here is the config of my drop targets and two ideal conditions need to work

1) It should not try to fire both reset coils simultaneously, should be a delay in firing

2) Ignore the fact that all four targets being down are on just the single switch labeled s_lbdropall_active or s_rbdropall_active

Is this possible with just using the config.yaml file ?

drop_target_banks:
  left_bank:
    drop_targets: left_drop1, left_drop2, left_drop3, left_drop4
    reset_coils: c_lbdropreset1, c_lbdropreset2
    reset_events:

      s_lbdropall_active

    reset_on_complete: 1s
  right_bank:
    drop_targets: right_drop1, right_drop2, right_drop3, right_drop4
    reset_coils: c_rbdropreset1, c_rbdropreset2
    reset_events:

      s_rbdropall_active  
    reset_on_complete: 1s

[jabdoa]

(1) should work by default that way. For (2) that is currently not supported. Would require some additional logic in MPF. Especially, since the state of a target would be unknown at machine start-up. Possible to add but would be some effort.

Jan

[David]

Todd,  could you just fire the target bank reset coils outside of the the target bank configuration based on the player_turn_will_start event?  Maybe not so elegant but this would get around the problem of WMS early drop targets having fleeting contacts as they drop.

Side note: being a Phoenix owner it has always irked me that the A and B drops do not reset on player turn starting and also that they reset on 2 or 4 rollovers even when the drops are up.

David.

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[David]

On 2/09/2021 10:33 pm, Todd Legere wrote:
> Is there any way I can change the drop bank target reset behavior to
> detect the single switch targetsdown/targetseries rather than the
> whole series of 4 ?

You could change the physical wiring on the drop to use the series part
from the backing plate as the individual down signal rather than part of
the all down chain, then the MPF bank section would work as expected.


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[Todd Legere]

David, thanks for the input. Yes the two stand up drop targets A and B required the ball to go thru lanes to be reset (instead of occuring on the begining of a players turn).

At the moment I am experimenting with different coding idea's until I find which I like best.

[Todd Legere]

Pictures help

[Todd Legere]

So you can see in this picture the left hand side is the top contact points (the drop target is in the up position)

the middle contacts when the target is falling and only temporily lights the target

the right hand side contacts, the target is completely dropped and contributes to the all dropped target series.

David X your suggestion of moving the solder points to use the target series (rather than middle contacts) would imply that I dont have a target series switch anymore but would give me the default software behavior. Hmmm , I like that idea.

[Todd Legere]

I got lazy when I discovered how much soldering was ahead to desolder & resolder 32 connections.

So it was edits to coil.yaml and base.yaml time...

The net result of the changes below reset the targets. One issue so far is at the begining of a new game event ball_started may not be proper event because fallen targets from previous game are awarded to start of new game after reset done. Changing the event from ball_started to something else may correct that issue. Alternatively, it might make sense to create mode/mydroptargets to control the drop targets devices. The jury is still out and I will continue to experiment till I'm happy with it.

Here are the relavent drop target in config/coils.yaml file

# Reset Left center drop when left inlane or lane 2 hit
  c_lcdropreset:
    number: 0-0-9
    label:
    tags:
    pulse_events:
      - s_left_inlane_active
      - s_lane2_active
    default_pulse_ms: 10
  c_lbdropreset1:
    number: 0-0-10
    label:
    tags:
    pulse_events:
      - pulse_lb_reset1   
    default_pulse_ms: 15
  c_lbdropreset2:
    number: 0-0-11
    label:
    tags:
    pulse_events:
      - pulse_lb_reset2     
    default_pulse_ms: 15
  c_rbdropreset1:
    number: 0-0-0
    label:
    tags:
    pulse_events:
      - pulse_rb_reset1    
    default_pulse_ms: 15
  c_rbdropreset2:
    number: 0-0-12
    label:
    tags:
    pulse_events:
      - pulse_rb_reset2    
    default_pulse_ms: 15
# Reset right center drop when left inlane or lane 2 hit
  c_rcdropreset:
    number: 0-0-13
    label:
    tags:
    pulse_events:
      - s_right_inlane_active
      - s_lane4_active
    default_pulse_ms: 10

Here are the relavent mode/base/config/base.yaml file entries

event_player:
  s_lbdropall_active:
    - pulse_lb_reset1
    - pulse_lb_reset2|100ms   
  s_rbdropall_active:
    - pulse_rb_reset1
    - pulse_rb_reset2|100ms
  s_lbdstandup_active:
    - pulse_lb_reset1
  s_rbdstandup_active:
    - pulse_rb_reset1
  ball_started:
    - pulse_lb_reset1
    - pulse_lb_reset2|100ms   
    - pulse_rb_reset1|200ms
    - pulse_rb_reset2|300ms   

[David]

On 4/09/2021 12:27 am, Todd Legere wrote:
> I got lazy when I discovered how much soldering was ahead to desolder
> & resolder 32 connections.

You don't have to move that many. Looking at the switch matrix the
column side, green wire, is common to both the fleeting signal and  the
all down chain on each bank. So no change needed you can leave it where
it is.

On the row side all you need do is bridge the all down pad to the
fleeting pad - I'd just use a small tinned link, like the yellow blobs
in my picture.  Just eight links to install for the whole game.

Now the fleeting switch is a down switch and MPF takes care of the all
down case.  The original all down signal is now a "at least one down"
signal.

David.

[cobra18t]

Great idea, David X. 

I was initially concerned that you would have to add an "ignore_switch_ms" entry to account for the poor connection as the target falls past the fleeting signal to the down signal. Good news is MPF already defaults drop target switches to have a 500ms ignore_switch_ms. MPF does not need the original "series" switch since it can track the drop target bank state, so you can omit it in your config.

Todd, I think you will be much happier in the long run if you modify the switches so they behave as MPF expects. MPF just handles little things like this for you.

[Todd Legere]

So your suggestion if I understand correctly is

1) do not desolder any existing connections

2) Add the little solder bridge connection as seen in the colored section of your picture

3) Remove coding sections added for the s_lbdropall switches

Also the picture provided lookes like the left bank drop target because of the single green/yellow wire.

My other drop target bank has two green wires on it. Is yours the same ?

[Todd Legere]

David-X

Just curious, would this solution have the following effect due to the slight gap in the slider ?

1) Drop target is hit and begins to fall. The drop target down momentarily light up then off.

2) Drop target finishes its fall to the dropall target switch and turns on a 2nd time the drop target down.

Net result the drop target lits up twice causing a double score ?

[Todd Legere]

cobra18t,

Crap, I should have read your response before replying to David-X. If the ignore switch timer does its thing then I should not have the double score issue.

[Todd Legere]

One last stupid question, if I roll back to use the default mpf drop target reset. My 4 target drop bank has two coils to reset. Will there be a delay between coil1 and coil2 firing?

I added this logic so that the interval between firing was 100ms to reduce power draw on power supply. Example if I want to reset all 6 drop targets ( 2 centers drops, 2 left bank, and 2 right banks) . So below you see the left bank coil1 resets then 100ms later then coil2 fires then right bank 200ms coil1 fires then 300ms coil2 fires.

ball_started:
    - pulse_lb_reset1
    - pulse_lb_reset2|100ms   
    - pulse_rb_reset1|200ms
    - pulse_rb_reset2|300ms   

[Todd Legere]

Just for shits&giggles I bridged just one connector the green/yellow and white/yellow connector (did not desolder any other connector)

The result was left bank target4 light was on then the target was up and when the target was down.

[Todd Legere]

Got off my lazy a__ and desoldered and resoldered both drop banks. Everything works tickety-boo. No issues.

No longer bother with the switch s_lbdropall and s_rbdropall.  The default mpf controls with 3 reset coils works perfectly without issues.

Thanks for the inputs from David-X and cobra18t, put a fork in it- this issue is done... :)