New error

[MikeR]

TB 9.0.1 Suddenly today I'm not able to send email to anyone but myself. I get the
error message:

"An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded:
<xx...@bellsouth.net> No such user here. Please check the message recipient
xx...@bellsouth.net and try again."

And it happens for all domains I try to send to. How do I determine if it's TB or my ISP?

[Mike Easter]

AT&T has a troubleshooting gizmo instead of a decent system status report

http://www.att.com/esupport/main.jsp?App_ID=PBY Troubleshoot Email -
Find solutions for common email issues

ATT outbound mail settings are here
http://www.att.com/esupport/article.jsp?sid=KB401570&cv=804&ct=9000086&pv=1&title=Email+server+settings+(POP+and+SMTP)#fbid=5Km2Unzubcb


The smtp requires authentication, and uses SSL.

Outgoing (SMTP)
outbound.att.net
(requires authentication)
Incoming mail server: POP3
Incoming/Outgoing User Name: Full AT&T email address, including domain
(e.g., te...@att.net, te...@bellsouth.net)
Incoming mail port #: 995, secure connection (SSL) checked
Outgoing mail port # 465, secure connection (SSL) checked


--
Mike Easter

[MikeR]

Thanks Mike, but my supplier isn't AT&T.

[Mike Easter]

MikeR wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> MikeR wrote:
>>> TB 9.0.1 Suddenly today I'm not able to send email to anyone but myself.
>>> I get the error message:
>>>
>>> "An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded:
>>> <xx...@bellsouth.net> No such user here. Please check the message
>>> recipient xx...@bellsouth.net and try again."
>>>
>>> And it happens for all domains I try to send to. How do I determine if
>>> it's TB or my ISP?
>>
>> AT&T has a troubleshooting gizmo instead of a decent system status report

> Thanks Mike, but my supplier isn't AT&T.

Oh.

I saw your nntp connecting IP address corresponded to a Jacksonville FL
DSL bellsouth.net rDNS.

bellsouth infrastructure is ATT including MX and mailserver is ATT/Yahoo.


--
Mike Easter

[MikeR]

Yeah, surprisingly, that one works OK. . . . ;-{>

[Mike Easter]

MikeR wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>> MikeR wrote:

>>>>> TB 9.0.1 Suddenly today I'm not able to send email to anyone but
>>>>> myself.

>> bellsouth infrastructure is ATT including MX and mailserver is ATT/Yahoo.
>>
>>
> Yeah, surprisingly, that one works OK. . . . ;-{>

So you want to talk about a likely unidentified mailserver problem but
you don't want to name the specific mailserver that is giving the problem?


--
Mike Easter

[MikeR]

Sure. it's Hostgator. I can receive email on that account, and can send it outside
the domain on the web interface. Further playing around reveals I get the error on
this machine (XP), my Mac, Win 7 running in Parallels on the Mac, and another Win7
flaptop.

[Mike Easter]

MikeR wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>>>> MikeR wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> TB 9.0.1 Suddenly today I'm not able to send email to
>>>>>>> anyone but myself.

>> name the specific mailserver that is giving the problem
>>
>>

> Sure. it's Hostgator. I can receive email on that account, and can send
> it outside the domain on the web interface. Further playing around
> reveals I get the error on this machine (XP), my Mac, Win 7 running in
> Parallels on the Mac, and another Win7 flaptop.

hostgator has tutorials for a number of different agents for setting up
the client for their server and they have a tutorial for an old Tbird
version^1.

Basically the smtp server requires authentication, no security, will
answer on port 25 or port 26.

If you don't have it configured for authentication, some servers will
error message tell you they want authentication and/but some will simply
refuse to relay the message for you by giving you an error that says 'no
such user' as you have described here.

If you /do/ have it configured for authentication but Tbird is 'screwing
up' and not authenticating properly, then I would go to the password
manager for the smtp account line and remove the user/pass line for the
smtp server. Then if you DO have the smtp server properly configured to
authenticate, Tb will ask you for the user and the pass and give you the
option to save it.

^1
http://www.hostgator.com/tutorials/mailclients/adding-email-accounts-in-thunderbird.htm
Adding Email accounts in Thunderbird



--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> MikeR wrote:

>> Hostgator.

> If you /do/ have it configured for authentication but Tbird is 'screwing
> up' and not authenticating properly, then I would go to the password
> manager

If the complete troubleshooting strategy results in the hostgator smtp
mail server for your domain name being 'balky' and not cooperating well
for mysterious reasons, it is not necessary to use that smtp server for
that/your domain's mail account.

You can use the pop/imap server for the hostgator account and configure
the account to use an smtp server which works more consistently
correctly such as the bellsouth/att/yahoo one.

Some people have to do that anyway if their provider won't let them use
port 25 outside (blocks) and the external smtp server doesn't have any
other port available; as/but the hostgator does with port 26.


--
Mike Easter

[Miles]

* MikeR wrote, On 21-Jan-12 11:30:

Don't know if it's related, but this morning Pacific time about 11:00
until mid afternoon could not send msgs to multiple recipients (BCC)
using ATT/Yahoo on Win7 TB9.0.1. Attempting to send a notice of
change of email address from ATT to gmail and was continuously told
that most of the recipients were invalid -- or words to that effect.
Didn't know if it was ATT or TB. Even took the wireless router out of
the circuit, but that didn't do anything. Finally I tried again about
1600 and it was OK. (Was sending to myself with BCC to anywhere from
10 to 75 addresses -- most addresses were disaccepted when attempting
to send)
Miles

[MikeR]

Thanks, Miles, but the AT&T account is working OK........ for now.....

[MikeR]

On 1/21/2012 9:22 PM, Mike Easter wrote:
> MikeR wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>>>>>>> MikeR wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> TB 9.0.1 Suddenly today I'm not able to send email to
>>>>>>>> anyone but myself.
>
>>> name the specific mailserver that is giving the problem
>>>
>>>
>> Sure. it's Hostgator. I can receive email on that account, and can send
>> it outside the domain on the web interface. Further playing around
>> reveals I get the error on this machine (XP), my Mac, Win 7 running in
>> Parallels on the Mac, and another Win7 flaptop.
>
> hostgator has tutorials for a number of different agents for setting up the client
> for their server and they have a tutorial for an old Tbird version^1.

Yep, I've read 'em. I don't think it's messed up settings here, haven't changed in a
year or so. It happened with 4 instances of TB on three machines, and in Apple's Mail.

>
> Basically the smtp server requires authentication, no security, will answer on port
> 25 or port 26.
>
> If you don't have it configured for authentication, some servers will error message
> tell you they want authentication and/but some will simply refuse to relay the
> message for you by giving you an error that says 'no such user' as you have described
> here.

HostGator says no security, password authentication(insecure)

>
> If you /do/ have it configured for authentication but Tbird is 'screwing up' and not
> authenticating properly, then I would go to the password manager for the smtp account
> line and remove the user/pass line for the smtp server. Then if you DO have the smtp
> server properly configured to authenticate, Tb will ask you for the user and the pass
> and give you the option to save it.

There is a user name there (on the smtp dialog), no password. Removing it and
restarting TB did not prompt for UID/PW. Or did you mean in Tools|Options|Security ?

[Mike Easter]

MikeR wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:

>> hostgator has tutorials for a number of different agents for
>> setting up the client for their server and they have a tutorial for
>> an old Tbird version^1.
>
> Yep, I've read 'em. I don't think it's messed up settings here, haven't
> changed in a year or so. It happened with 4 instances of TB on three
> machines, and in Apple's Mail.

The hostgator tutorial shows both a user and password being entered for
the pop/imap account configuration. It does not show screenshots of the
details of the smtp server account configuration (for OE or Tb).

>> If you don't have it configured for authentication, some servers
>> will error message tell you they want authentication and/but some
>> will simply refuse to relay the message for you by giving you an
>> error that says 'no such user' as you have described here.
>
> HostGator says no security, password authentication(insecure)

Do not confuse authentication with security in this mail server context.
Security means whether or not a server uses SSL^1 or such transport
layer security. Authentication means whether or not a server requires
user/pass to login. I have never heard of a mail server which uses a
user but no pass and I do not believe that hostgator requires only a
user but no pass for its smtp server. Generally the smtp server
credentials are the same as those for the pop/imap.

>> the password manager for the smtp account line and remove the
>> user/pass line for the smtp server.

> There is a user name there (on the smtp dialog), no password. Removing
> it and restarting TB did not prompt for UID/PW. Or did you mean in
> Tools|Options|Security ?

Tools/Options/Security - Saved Passwords button.


^1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Sockets_Layer

--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Tb has a design flaw (IMO) in which if there is some kind of 'problem'
(even temporary/transient) with the transacting between Tb and the
server, the Tb user/pass configuration is 'jettisoned' (or hereafter
ignored or whatever).

Then, if the server errors because there isn't a successful user/pass,
the user can 'see' that error because Tb is telling the user that the
user/pass didn't work.

However, some servers 'allow' transactions to go on, but with
compromised functionality.

One example of that compromised function is the eternal-september news
server which does not error when the user fails to login, but instead
the e-s server only allows the user to access the list of e-s specific
newsgroups and only allows the user to post to those groups. Naturally
this causes confusion in that there is no error, but the user can't get
all the usenet groups.

Another example of compromised function might pertain to this smtp issue
of yours. Some mail servers 'won't let you do anything' if you aren't
logged in, so you would get an error message about the user/pass
authentication not working. But some smtp servers will let you transact,
but if you are not logged in they will not let you 'relay' (email to a
foreign domain) because else they would be an 'open' relay subject to
abuse and spam generation.

Ideally the server would error and tell you that you need to be
authenticated (to relay); but instead some servers only say 'no such
user' because without credentials you would only be allowed to email a
user whose mailbox was at *that* server.

In order to deal with Tb's design deficiency for these types of vague
server transaction disturbances, the disturbed credentials status needs
to be ironed out, which is most efficiently done by removing the
existing credential entry in the pw manager so that Tb will request
credentials for repopulating the fields.


--
Mike Easter

[MikeR]

On 1/22/2012 8:48 AM, Mike Easter wrote:
> MikeR wrote:
>> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>>> hostgator has tutorials for a number of different agents for
>>> setting up the client for their server and they have a tutorial for
>>> an old Tbird version^1.
>>
>> Yep, I've read 'em. I don't think it's messed up settings here, haven't
>> changed in a year or so. It happened with 4 instances of TB on three
>> machines, and in Apple's Mail.
>
> The hostgator tutorial shows both a user and password being entered for the pop/imap
> account configuration. It does not show screenshots of the details of the smtp server
> account configuration (for OE or Tb).
>
>>> If you don't have it configured for authentication, some servers
>>> will error message tell you they want authentication and/but some
>>> will simply refuse to relay the message for you by giving you an
>>> error that says 'no such user' as you have described here.
>>
>> HostGator says no security, password authentication(insecure)
>
> Do not confuse authentication with security in this mail server context. Security
> means whether or not a server uses SSL^1 or such transport layer security.
> Authentication means whether or not a server requires user/pass to login. I have
> never heard of a mail server which uses a user but no pass and I do not believe that
> hostgator requires only a user but no pass for its smtp server. Generally the smtp
> server credentials are the same as those for the pop/imap.
>

No confusion, there is a user ID and a password, but they are not both on the SMTP
dialog.

>>> the password manager for the smtp account line and remove the
>>> user/pass line for the smtp server.
>
>> There is a user name there (on the smtp dialog), no password. Removing
>> it and restarting TB did not prompt for UID/PW. Or did you mean in
>> Tools|Options|Security ?
>
> Tools/Options/Security - Saved Passwords button.

Ahh. OK. No joy when I do that.

I just got a notice from Hostgator tech support. They're able to replicate the
problem, and are escalating it.

Thanks a bunch, Mike, for the aid.

[MikeR]

On 1/22/2012 9:35 AM, Mike Easter wrote:
> MikeR wrote:
>> TB 9.0.1 Suddenly today I'm not able to send email to anyone but myself.
>> I get the error message:
>>
>> "An error occurred while sending mail. The mail server responded:
>> <xx...@bellsouth.net> No such user here. Please check the message
>> recipient xx...@bellsouth.net and try again."
>>
>> And it happens for all domains I try to send to. How do I determine if
>> it's TB or my ISP?
>
> Tb has a design flaw (IMO) in which if there is some kind of 'problem' (even
> temporary/transient) with the transacting between Tb and the server, the Tb user/pass
> configuration is 'jettisoned' (or hereafter ignored or whatever).

This one has dragged on for a loooooong time. It would be helpful (but not a totally
satisfactory fix) if TB would at least tell you which account it was that it trashed.

[Mike Easter]

MikeR wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:

>> Tb has a design flaw (IMO) in which if there is some kind of
>> 'problem' (even temporary/transient) with the transacting between
>> Tb and the server, the Tb user/pass configuration is 'jettisoned'
>> (or hereafter ignored or whatever).
>
> This one has dragged on for a loooooong time. It would be helpful (but
> not a totally satisfactory fix) if TB would at least tell you which
> account it was that it trashed.

I handle my news and mail accounts 'one at a time', and I certainly
would if I were having trouble.

For my news, I uncheck 'check for new messages at startup' and 'check
for new messages every xx minutes'.

It is not clear to me whether you are still struggling with diagnosing
an smtp transacting problem with your hostgator domain mail and Tb.

There are a couple of different ways I test the success of my
transactions with a mailserver (or a news server); either I use another
agent such as OE or I use telnet. I like the fact that OE is much much
simpler to create a log than it is with Tb. In OE all you have to do is
put a check mark in the maintenance section and it starts logging.

The advantage of using OE over telnet is that it will handle the b64
encoding of the user/pass for you. If you telnet you need to use a tool
to do the encoding. The way I do it is to have a text editor open as
another task and create a couple of lines with the b64'd user and b64'd
pass. Then I open a telnet session, say EHLO, then say auth login, then
the mail server sez 334 VXNlcm5hbWU6 which means Username: in b64 and I
paste in my b64 user, then the server sez 334 UGFzc3dvcmQ6 which means
Password: and I paste in my pass.

The session looks like this:

telnet> open smtpauth.earthlink.net 587
Trying 207.69.189.208...
Connected to smtpauth.earthlink.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220-elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net ESMTP Exim 4.67 #1 Mon, 23 Jan
2012 00:57:39 -0500
220-NO UCE. EarthLink does not authorize the use of its computers or
network
220 equipment to accept, transmit, or distribute unsolicited e-mail.
EHLO <munge machine name>
250-elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net Hello <munge> [munge IP address]
250-SIZE 14680064
250-PIPELINING
250-AUTH PLAIN LOGIN CRAM-MD5
250-STARTTLS
250 HELP
AUTH LOGIN
334 VXNlcm5hbWU6
<munged b64 username>
334 UGFzc3dvcmQ6
<munged b64 pass>
235 Authentication succeeded
QUIT
221 elasmtp-masked.atl.sa.earthlink.net closing connection
Connection closed by foreign host.

The OE log of the same thing (including sending a mail) looks like this:

Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 (xpsp.080413-2105)
SMTP Log started at 01/22/2012 09:09:10
SMTP: 09:09:10 [rx] 220-elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net ESMTP Exim
4.67 #1 Sun, 22 Jan 2012 12:09:10 -0500
SMTP: 09:09:10 [rx] 220-NO UCE. EarthLink does not authorize the use
of its computers or network
SMTP: 09:09:10 [rx] 220 equipment to accept, transmit, or distribute
unsolicited e-mail.
SMTP: 09:09:10 [tx] EHLO <munge machinename>
SMTP: 09:09:10 [rx] 250-elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net Hello munge
[munge IP add]
SMTP: 09:09:10 [rx] 250-SIZE 14680064
SMTP: 09:09:10 [rx] 250-PIPELINING
SMTP: 09:09:10 [rx] 250-AUTH PLAIN LOGIN CRAM-MD5
SMTP: 09:09:10 [rx] 250-STARTTLS
SMTP: 09:09:10 [rx] 250 HELP
SMTP: 09:09:10 [tx] AUTH LOGIN
SMTP: 09:09:10 [rx] 334 VXNlcm5hbWU6
SMTP: 09:09:10 [tx] <munge b64 user>
SMTP: 09:09:11 [rx] 334 UGFzc3dvcmQ6
SMTP: 09:09:11 [tx] <munge b64 pass>
SMTP: 09:09:11 [rx] 235 Authentication succeeded
SMTP: 09:09:11 [tx] MAIL FROM: munged addy
SMTP: 09:09:11 [rx] 250 OK
SMTP: 09:09:11 [tx] RCPT TO: munged addy
SMTP: 09:09:11 [rx] 250 Accepted
SMTP: 09:09:11 [tx] DATA
SMTP: 09:09:11 [rx] 354 Enter message, ending with "." on a line by itself
SMTP: 09:09:11 [tx]
.
SMTP: 09:09:11 [rx] 250 OK id=1Rp0uk-0005Bi-V2
SMTP: 09:09:11 [tx] QUIT
SMTP: 09:09:11 [rx] 221 elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net closing
connection




--
Mike Easter

[MikeR]

More good info. My struggles have ceased, as Hostgator has acknowleged a repeatable
problem at their end.

[Mike Easter]

MikeR wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:

>> It is not clear to me whether you are still struggling with
>> diagnosing an smtp transacting problem with your hostgator domain
>> mail and Tb.

> More good info. My struggles have ceased, as Hostgator has acknowleged a
> repeatable problem at their end.

Well, if their smtp server is b0rken, the workaround is to use your
att/bellsouth/yahoo smtp server for the hostgator account.

I don't know whether a 'repeatable problem' is simply an acknowledgement
that the server allows transacting but not relaying when the client
isn't logged in or if a repeatable problem means the server isn't
allowing anyone to log in or if a repeatable problem means the server
isn't relaying for anyone regardless of whether they are logged in or not.


--
Mike Easter

[MikeR]

They said they set up a new account, and got the same result I did when trying to
send. I have no idea (or really care) what the behind-the-scene scenario is, as long
as it's on their end and not mine. ;-{> They're usually pretty fast to a fix, once
they understand the issue. That, however is sometimes a tad prolonged.

[robertmiles]

AT&T now owns Bellsouth, and is changing some of the server settings to match those of AT&T. However, they've outsourced their email handling to Yahoo.

[robertmiles]

Newsgroups accounts have the same problem with losing the username and/or password (at least under TB 9.0.1). It doesn't show you which newsgroups server, either.

I believe I've seen a workaround posted here before for newsgroups servers. Disable any automatic downloading for all the servers, then click on the account for a specific server, to get such a prompt for that server only. I've never tried that for my email servers - connections to them are reliable enough that I don't need to. Perhaps you'd like to try that method for your email servers, while recording the previous settings so that you can set them back for any servers with a connection reliable enough?