Thunderbird time travel
Restorm
For instance, I sent someone an email an hour ago, and his reply came in
marked September 22. His isn't the only one, so I know it's not a bad
date on his computer. I tried deleting and re-creating my MSF files,
but it's still happening. Most incoming emails are dated OK: it's just
intermittent. Anyone know what's going on?
Mike Easter
If I were puzzled about a data stamp on an email, I would examine all of
the headerlines.
That way you will be able to see every datestamp on every traceline
stamped by every MTA mailtransfer agent along the way from the sender to
you.
Translate everything to UTC to spare confusion.
The tracelines are the lines which start:
Received: from
For purposes of date stamps, you can also use the lines which are not
proper tracelines which begin with:
Received: by
I just glanced at an 'average' mail. It had 10 datestamps to 'play with'
and evaluate.
That way you will be able to *specify* "This specific date stamp is
completely outawhack with every other (10) date stamps on the mail."
--
Mike Easter
Jay Garcia
--- Original Message ---
Send an email to yourself, see if the time is correct/incorrect.
--
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
Restorm
> On 28.09.2010 11:05, Restorm wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> I've received several emails this morning with the wrong date on them.
>> For instance, I sent someone an email an hour ago, and his reply came in
>> marked September 22. His isn't the only one, so I know it's not a bad
>> date on his computer. I tried deleting and re-creating my MSF files,
>> but it's still happening. Most incoming emails are dated OK: it's just
>> intermittent. Anyone know what's going on?
>
> Send an email to yourself, see if the time is correct/incorrect.
>
Normally, I'd just assume the other person had a bad time stamp, but I
received emails from several different people that all ended up being
dated 9/22. It would seem awfully coincidental that multiple people
would have the same bad time stamp on the same day...
Ralph Fox
news://news.mozilla.org:119/uOednWd3nsLxCT7R...@mozilla.org
Restorm wrote:
Go to the offending message, use "View >> Message Source", and look for
the "Date:" header line in the message source. This will be above the
first blank line (near the top of the message source), and it will look
similar to the following example
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:32:49 -0400
Q.1 Post the "Date:" line from the message source here, so we can
check whether it has the correct and unambiguous syntax.
Q.2 Does the message source also show a wrong date?
Q.3 If the message source also shows the wrong date, ask the
sender to do the same with their sent copy of the message.
Compare the date line from the message source of their copy,
with the date line from the message source of your copy.
Without more information like this, yours is a bit like a pig-in-a-poke
question.
--
Kind regards
Ralph
Mike Easter
> My time stamp is perfect. Like I said, it seems to be intermittent.
> Normally, I'd just assume the other person had a bad time stamp, but I
> received emails from several different people that all ended up being
> dated 9/22. It would seem awfully coincidental that multiple people
> would have the same bad time stamp on the same day...
Altho' you have not yet 'defined' what timestamp you are describing, it
is my understanding that the Date information which Tbird displays in
the Date column of the thread view of email or the header of a displayed
email (either in the message pane or opened message) is not a value
which is 'directly' _created_ by Tbird.
The timestamp data is derived from the mail's Date header line which is
'created' by the sender's agent, typically from the time that the
message's creation was initiated. Since the sender's timestamp includes
the sender's localtiime and timezone offset, the only thing that Tbird
contributes to the process of displaying that Date/Time is to convert it
into the localtime and timezone offset of the Tbird user instead of
displaying the localtime tz offset that the sender was using.
So, according to my understanding, which is less complete for Tbird than
OE's display of that/a Date^1, it isn't 'possible' for Tbird to 'mess
up' the date in terms of days - only the timezone offset being
misconfigured by the receiver.
^1 OE's thread pane column is not named 'Date' but instead the columns
can be Sent and/or Received, which are derived differently by OE, but
that subject is not a topic of conversation here. OE's opened mail or
preview information is named Date and derived from the Date header.
--
Mike Easter
Restorm
hour, but which came in as yesterday's mail, and has yesterday's date in
the header. It might be that this person has a bad date in his
computer, but it doesn't explain why I've suddenly been receiving so
many "misdated" emails:
From - Thu Sep 30 09:00:28 2010
X-Account-Key: account2
X-UIDL: UID1972-1284204698
X-Mozilla-Status: 0003
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00800000
X-Mozilla-Keys:
Return-Path: <cybs...@comcast.net>
X-Original-To: st...@revitaliz.com
Delivered-To: st...@revitaliz.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by mail.wsol.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F1B560B049
for <st...@revitaliz.com>; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:03:38 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from mail.wsol.net ([127.0.0.1])
by localhost (mail.wsol.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id VzmPa+15K2Jy for <st...@revitaliz.com>;
Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:03:37 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from QMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net
(qmta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.59.211])
by mail.wsol.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A29D60B046
for <st...@revitaliz.com>; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:03:36 -0500 (CDT)
Received: from omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.87])
by QMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast
id Cxjt1f0021swQuc5B10YiS; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:00:32 +0000
Received: from Win7pc ([69.248.22.117])
by omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast
id D10Y1f0052XadgM3b10YNP; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:00:32 +0000
Return-Receipt-To: "cybscribe" <cybs...@comcast.net>
From: "cybscribe" <cybs...@comcast.net>
To: "Storm Cunningham" <st...@revitaliz.com>
Subject: Electric cat ?
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:52:17 -0400
Message-ID:
<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAKQ/TFWUMXVPtyF5tgnFdWvCgAAAEAAAABPg4yeUbD5HjX7M5kKet9EBAAAAAA==@comcast.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CB6018.33C4FAE0"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0
Thread-Index: ActgObqT+0+J0IB0RD+1Ps/UNhlMzw==
Content-Language: en-us
Jay Garcia
--- Original Message ---
> Received: from Win7pc ([69.248.22.117])
> by omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast
> id D10Y1f0052XadgM3b10YNP; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:00:32 +0000
Last I heard, Pennsylvania is not on GMT which the +0000 indicates. :-)
Restorm
> On 30.09.2010 08:17, Restorm wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> Received: from Win7pc ([69.248.22.117])
>> by omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast
>> id D10Y1f0052XadgM3b10YNP; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:00:32 +0000
>
> Last I heard, Pennsylvania is not on GMT which the +0000 indicates. :-)
>
Jay Garcia
--- Original Message ---
> On 9/30/2010 9:24 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 30.09.2010 08:17, Restorm wrote:
>>
>> --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> Received: from Win7pc ([69.248.22.117])
>>> by omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast
>>> id D10Y1f0052XadgM3b10YNP; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:00:32 +0000
>>
>> Last I heard, Pennsylvania is not on GMT which the +0000 indicates. :-)
>>
> Good point!
Easily fixed in the OS timezone setting.
Mike Easter
> From - Thu Sep 30 09:00:28 2010
tbird mbox (lacks tz offset)
> Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:03:38 -0500 (CDT)
wsol MTA2
> Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:03:37 -0500 (CDT)
wsol MTA1
> Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:03:36 -0500 (CDT)
wsol MTA0
> Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:00:32 +0000
comcast MTA2
> Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:00:32 +0000
comcast MTA1
> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:52:17 -0400
Sender
Now abbreviating below; All times in 24 hour UTC, rounded off, date
expressed as day of week rather than date, starting from bottom to top
as the item traveled chronologically.
Sender's Date header: Thu 00:52
comcast MTA x2: Thu 13:00
wsol MTA x3: Thu 13:03
Tbird mbox stamp (assuming your tz offset is -0400): Thu 13:00
Thus, the item passed thru' 5 different MTAs all of which are likely to
have precise clocks which all stamped the item approximately 13:00 Thu
UTC, but the sender's date stamp said approximately Thu 01:00 indicating
to me that the sender's clock is off by about 12 hours (slow).
This is a very very common malady which clock error can come about in a
number of ways, but all of which result in an AM/PM same day discrepancy
sometimes and an AM/PM other day discrepancy other times.
--
Mike Easter
Restorm
> On 30.09.2010 08:31, Restorm wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> On 9/30/2010 9:24 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> On 30.09.2010 08:17, Restorm wrote:
>>>
>>> --- Original Message ---
>>>
>>>> Received: from Win7pc ([69.248.22.117])
>>>> by omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast
>>>> id D10Y1f0052XadgM3b10YNP; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:00:32 +0000
>>>
>>> Last I heard, Pennsylvania is not on GMT which the +0000 indicates. :-)
>>>
>> Good point!
>
> Easily fixed in the OS timezone setting.
>
screwed-up that setting.
Restorm
Jay Garcia
--- Original Message ---
Yup, as noted, the user's timezone was set incorrectly and has nothing
to do with all the mail servers in the header info.
John H Meyers
> I found out he just set up a new computer, and obviously
> screwed-up that setting.
But previously, you had said:
> I received emails from several different people
> that all ended up being dated 9/22. It would seem awfully coincidental
> that multiple people would have the same bad time stamp on the same day
and
> It might be that this person has a bad date in his computer,
> but it doesn't explain why I've suddenly been receiving
> so many "misdated" emails
So, have all the "poltergeists" been reduced to just one?
By coincidence(s), an old "Star Trek" episode rebroadcast last night
had "Commander Data" re-setting the Enterprise's computer
to wipe out one entire day from everyone's memory but his own,
and "Coast to Coast AM" featured assurances of imminent announcements
about alien contacts -- you never know, what if all the computers
in the world had been re-set last night, by either one of those?
--
Mike Easter
> Yup, as noted, the user's timezone was set incorrectly and has nothing
> to do with all the mail servers in the header info.
The OP's original premise was that he (already) *knew* that the problem
wasn't that of the sender having the wrong time/date.
Part of the process of /convincing/ him that the sender's Date header
was inaccurate was 'lining up' the 5 MTAs which showed accurate and
consistent times, as well as a rational explanation for how/why
someone's clock could be off like that, and also show a wrong date.
You can't prove someone's clock is set wrong unless you have some other
(more accurate) clock to compare it to.
<OP>
> I know it's not a bad date on his computer.
</OP>
--
Mike Easter
Jay Garcia
--- Original Message ---
The received header on the mail that he posted here showed +0000 and
originating from .pa (Pennsylvania) .. PA is not GMT and that is what I
addressed. He concured that the friend's computer was new and the TZ was
set incorrectly. If there is more then the rest will have to be
addressed. In that venue +0000 should be EDT -0400.
Mike Easter
> The received header on the mail that he posted here showed +0000 and
> originating from .pa (Pennsylvania) .. PA is not GMT and that is what I
> addressed. He concured that the friend's computer was new and the TZ was
> set incorrectly. If there is more then the rest will have to be
> addressed. In that venue +0000 should be EDT -0400.
Some servers prefer to 'run on' UTC instead of their localtime with an
offset. When they do, they /should/ choose the - sign for their 0000
offset instead of the + sign according to ISO 8601 and RFC 3339. I don't
think that using a +0000 instead of a -0000 in 'violation' of those
guidelines/suggestions is a big deal (worth mentioning).
--
Mike Easter
Jay Garcia
--- Original Message ---
If you look at the header posted, the +0000 timezone came from the
user's PC, not the server.
Restorm
folders to try to find them. The one in question is the only one that
repeated, and that's been fixed.
Mike Easter
> Mike Easter wrote:
>> Some servers prefer to 'run on' UTC instead of their localtime with an
>> offset. When they do, they /should/ choose the - sign for their 0000
>> offset instead of the + sign according to ISO 8601 and RFC 3339. I don't
>> think that using a +0000 instead of a -0000 in 'violation' of those
>> guidelines/suggestions is a big deal (worth mentioning).
> If you look at the header posted, the +0000 timezone came from the
> user's PC, not the server.
The following two server tracelines are modified to removed leading
whitespace and separated by an empty line for better visualization and
to allow wrapping.
Received: from omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.87]) by
QMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id
Cxjt1f0021swQuc5B10YiS; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:00:32 +0000
Received: from Win7pc ([69.248.22.117]) by
omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id
D10Y1f0052XadgM3b10YNP; Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:00:32 +0000
Those tracelines were stamped by the comcast server/s - MTAs - not by
the user/sender's computer. Those servers are calling themselves
QMTA11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net and
omta15.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net
omta15 received the item from the user Win7pc and QMTA11 received it
from omta15; that is user Win7pc > server/MTA omta15 > server/MTA QMTA11
The only time/date line which was stamped/created by the user's computer
is the Date line.
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 20:52:17 -0400
... which correctly reflects his tz offset, but incorrectly shows his
localtime to be 12 hours slow.
--
Mike Easter