**THIS FORUM WILL BE SHUT DOWN SOON**

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Chris Ilias

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Mar 27, 2021, 4:21:18 PMMar 27
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
*WHAT IS HAPPENING*
Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
mailing lists (list.mozilla.org).


*WHEN IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN*
lists.mozilla.org: April 3
news.mozilla.org: Sometime after April 3


*WHAT YOU WILL EXPERIENCE*
Because all posts to this newsgroup go through the mailing list, no
messages will be approved after April 3. You will still be able to
access news.mozilla.org, but there will be no new posts in this
newsgroup after that. If you try to post a message, it will just not appear.

Sometime after that, Giganews will shut down news.mozilla.org, and you
will no longer be able to access the newsgroup.


*WHERE TO FIND THE ARCHIVE*
The archive of this newsgroup will be kept intact at
https://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird/
As with other newsgroups that have been shuttered in the past, the
archive will be read-only.

You can also download all messages before the news server is shut down.
1. In your Local Folders account, create a new folder called
"mozilla.support.thunderbird"
2. Open the newsgroup, then go to Edit-->Select-->All.
3. Go to Message-->Move_to-->Local_Folders-->mozilla.support.thunderbird
NOTE: There are over 174,000 messages, so it will take a long time to
download. You may want to select batches of messages instead of
selecting all.


*WHERE TO GO FOR SUPPORT*
The primary Thunderbird support forum is at
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/thunderbird?show=all
Other languages can be found at
https://support.mozilla.org/kb/get-community-support

If you prefer newsgroups, there may be newsgroups on Usenet where you
can find Thunderbird support. If not, try netscape.public.mozilla.mail-news.


*WHY THIS IS HAPPENING*
Mozilla has been migrating off of mailing lists and newsgroups for many
years now. Many of the mailing lists have already closed down and moved
to https://discourse.mozilla.org/
Even though a support web forum already exists, the support
newsgroups/lists have remained open for the lifetime of the server.


*WHERE TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS ANNOUNCEMENT*
You can reply to this post, and I'll try to answer any questions.
If you have questions after the shutdown, you can find me in the
#thunderbird chat room at
https://chat.mozilla.org/#/room/#thunderbird:mozilla.org or the #sumo
chat room at https://chat.mozilla.org/#/room/#SUMO:mozilla.org

My display name is cilias

--
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator

Nobody

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Mar 27, 2021, 7:58:00 PMMar 27
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Committing the Cardinal Sin of Usenet, I'm Top Posting...

So this means if one needs peer help, you'll read it at Reddit.

BillH

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Mar 27, 2021, 11:57:33 PMMar 27
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Sad news. I will miss the newsgroup. I have really enjoyed the helpful
folks here. Everyone stay safe.

Bill

--
If you want to send me an email, you must remove "NOSPAM" from my email
address before replying.

Lew Wolfgang

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Mar 28, 2021, 12:31:43 AMMar 28
to support-t...@lists.mozilla.org
On 3/27/21 8:55 PM, BillH wrote:
> On 3/27/2021 1:20 PM, Chris Ilias wrote:
>> *WHAT IS HAPPENING*
>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org).
>>
>>
>> *WHERE TO GO FOR SUPPORT*
>> The primary Thunderbird support forum is at
>> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/thunderbird?show=all
>> Other languages can be found at
>> https://support.mozilla.org/kb/get-community-support
>>
>>
>> *WHY THIS IS HAPPENING*
>> Mozilla has been migrating off of mailing lists and newsgroups for many
>> years now. Many of the mailing lists have already closed down and moved
>> to https://discourse.mozilla.org/
>> Even though a support web forum already exists, the support
>> newsgroups/lists have remained open for the lifetime of the server.
>>
>>
>
> Sad news.  I will miss the newsgroup.  I have really enjoyed the
> helpful folks here.  Everyone stay safe.
>

Yes, sad indeed.  Maybe it's just because I'm old, but I've always preferred
information to be "pushed" to me, as with incoming email, rather than
"pulled" from a web forum.  All my important information is pushed to my
one instance of Thunderbird, I would never be able to visit multiple web
sites to keep up-to-date with all my varied information sources.  I would
never have seen this message if it appeared only in the web forum.

Regards,
Lew

Jan-Peter Rühmann

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Mar 28, 2021, 2:36:47 AMMar 28
to support-t...@lists.mozilla.org
Am 28.03.21 um 06:31 schrieb Lew Wolfgang:
On 3/27/21 8:55 PM, BillH wrote:
On 3/27/2021 1:20 PM, Chris Ilias wrote:
*WHAT IS HAPPENING*
Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
mailing lists (list.mozilla.org).


*WHERE TO GO FOR SUPPORT*
The primary Thunderbird support forum is at
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/thunderbird?show=all
Other languages can be found at
https://support.mozilla.org/kb/get-community-support


*WHY THIS IS HAPPENING*
Mozilla has been migrating off of mailing lists and newsgroups for many
years now. Many of the mailing lists have already closed down and moved
to https://discourse.mozilla.org/
Even though a support web forum already exists, the support
newsgroups/lists have remained open for the lifetime of the server.


Sad news.  I will miss the newsgroup.  I have really enjoyed the helpful folks here.  Everyone stay safe.


Yes, sad indeed.  Maybe it's just because I'm old, but I've always preferred
information to be "pushed" to me, as with incoming email, rather than
"pulled" from a web forum.  All my important information is pushed to my
one instance of Thunderbird, I would never be able to visit multiple web
sites to keep up-to-date with all my varied information sources.  I would
never have seen this message if it appeared only in the web forum.

Regards,
Lew
Same goes for me, I am following hundreds of Mailing lists and don´t think it is possible to do that with forums.

Good Bye,
-- 
<pre>
-========================== Jan-Peter Rühmann & Kuma =========================-
Gubkower Str.7             [ Tel.:  +49 38205 65484 ]   jan-...@ruehmann.name
18195 Cammin / Prangendorf [ FAX:   +49 38205 65212 ] https://www.ruehmann.name
WhatsApp: 491621316054     [ Tel.:  +49 38205 65215 ]
Twitter: @JPRuehmann       [ Mobil: +49 162 1316054 ]       IT-Servicetechniker
-=============================================================================-
           Die Verwendung der Daten zu Werbezwecken ist verboten.
</pre>

Dave Royal

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Mar 28, 2021, 3:16:10 AMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 27 Mar 2021 16:20:04 -0400 Chris Ilias wrote:
>*WHAT IS HAPPENING*
>Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) ..

There have been so few posts recently I began to think the feeds had
already been turned off!

I can now dump this newsreader, which I wrote because I couldn't access
m.s groups on Android.

For anyone using my addon 'Limit non-BCC Recipients' and the old
'Use BCC Instead C', you may be pleased, and amazed, to know that it
should soon be obsolete. After 17 years Mozilla is implementing this
bug:
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=271405>

Goodbye everyone.
--
(Remove numerics from email address)

Torsten Villnow

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Mar 28, 2021, 3:19:26 AMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Am 28.03.2021 um 06:31 schrieb Lew Wolfgang:
> Yes, sad indeed.  Maybe it's just because I'm old, but I've always
> preferred
> information to be "pushed" to me, as with incoming email, rather than
> "pulled" from a web forum.  All my important information is pushed to my
> one instance of Thunderbird, I would never be able to visit multiple web
> sites to keep up-to-date with all my varied information sources.  I would
> never have seen this message if it appeared only in the web forum.

Web fora have their merits, but the need to always get registered for
your interest areas if you want to contribute is a pain compared to the
easy access in the Usenet.

--
Torsten Villnow

Andy Burns

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Mar 28, 2021, 3:23:53 AMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Chris Ilias wrote:

> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org).

Indicate any support for alt.comp.software.thunderbird
over in alt.config
news:icaoik...@mid.individual.net

Wilf

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Mar 28, 2021, 3:46:44 AMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Yes, a great shame. There have been many interesting and helpful posts
here over the years and, as you and others say, having information
pushed is a lot easier than going around multiple forums in case there
is something interesting to see there.

--
Wilf

Wilf

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Mar 28, 2021, 3:50:38 AMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
It would be great if that were possible. I've given my support.

--
Wilf

Andy Burns

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Mar 28, 2021, 4:08:24 AMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Wilf wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Indicate any support for alt.comp.software.thunderbird
>> over in alt.config
>> news:icaoik...@mid.individual.net
>
> It would be great if that were possible.  I've given my support.

Thanks Wilf, I'll give it a week to gauge overall support.

Henk de Jong

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Mar 28, 2021, 6:09:11 AMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
That would be great!

--
With kind regards,
Henk de Jong

7 Sisters Restaurant
https://www.7sistersrestaurant.com

Jim Sanford

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Mar 28, 2021, 10:10:09 AMMar 28
to support-t...@lists.mozilla.org

Agreed.

Getting information by forum is MUCH less efficient than just scanning subject lines and reading those of interest.

VERY sad decision . . . .


On 3/28/2021 2:36 AM, Jan-Peter Rühmann wrote:
Am 28.03.21 um 06:31 schrieb Lew Wolfgang:
On 3/27/21 8:55 PM, BillH wrote:
On 3/27/2021 1:20 PM, Chris Ilias wrote:
*WHAT IS HAPPENING*
Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
mailing lists (list.mozilla.org).


*WHERE TO GO FOR SUPPORT*
The primary Thunderbird support forum is at
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/thunderbird?show=all
Other languages can be found at
https://support.mozilla.org/kb/get-community-support


*WHY THIS IS HAPPENING*
Mozilla has been migrating off of mailing lists and newsgroups for many
years now. Many of the mailing lists have already closed down and moved
to https://discourse.mozilla.org/
Even though a support web forum already exists, the support
newsgroups/lists have remained open for the lifetime of the server.


Sad news.  I will miss the newsgroup.  I have really enjoyed the helpful folks here.  Everyone stay safe.

Yes, sad indeed.  Maybe it's just because I'm old, but I've always preferred
information to be "pushed" to me, as with incoming email, rather than
"pulled" from a web forum.  All my important information is pushed to my
one instance of Thunderbird, I would never be able to visit multiple web
sites to keep up-to-date with all my varied information sources.  I would
never have seen this message if it appeared only in the web forum.

Regards,
Lew
Same goes for me, I am following hundreds of Mailing lists and don´t think it is possible to do that with forums.

Good Bye,
-- 
<pre>
-========================== Jan-Peter Rühmann & Kuma =========================-
Gubkower Str.7             [ Tel.:  +49 38205 65484 ]   jan-...@ruehmann.name
18195 Cammin / Prangendorf [ FAX:   +49 38205 65212 ] https://www.ruehmann.name
WhatsApp: 491621316054     [ Tel.:  +49 38205 65215 ]
Twitter: @JPRuehmann       [ Mobil: +49 162 1316054 ]       IT-Servicetechniker
-=============================================================================-
           Die Verwendung der Daten zu Werbezwecken ist verboten.
</pre>

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WaltS48

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Mar 28, 2021, 11:17:04 AMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
I'm still confused as to whether Thunderbird is a Mozilla product, or
just a product developed by the Thunderbird Council, which has a
financial and legal home at MZLA Co, which is a subsidiary of the
Mozilla Foundation AIUI.

Anyway, that is Message Compose Window component of the Thunderbird
product bug, which is on the Mozilla bug reporting system.

I didn't use your add-on and the report sounds like good one to me.

Might have to test it in an upcoming release candidate test.

--
OS: Fedora 33 Workstation - Gnome Desktop
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/

WaltS48

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Mar 28, 2021, 11:30:08 AMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
I'd have to check, but I think all the web forums I have accounts for
offer notifications for replies to my posts.

Then there are News feeds which are different from newsgroups and
shouldn't be confused,

I'm subscribed to 17 Blogs and News feeds, needing to go to each site to
find the feed link.

I wouldn't have time for hundreds of mailing lists. What I do consumes
enough of my time.

There are sports to watch, groceries to buy, software to test and more. 😁

Wayne

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Mar 28, 2021, 11:43:52 AMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 3/28/21 11:16 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
On 3/28/21 3:15 AM, Dave Royal wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 16:20:04 -0400 Chris Ilias wrote:
*WHAT IS HAPPENING*
Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) ..
There have been so few posts recently I began to think the feeds had
already been turned off!

I can now dump this newsreader, which I wrote because I couldn't access
m.s groups on Android.

For anyone using my addon 'Limit non-BCC Recipients' and the old
'Use BCC Instead C', you may be pleased, and amazed, to know that it
should soon be obsolete. After 17 years Mozilla is implementing this
bug:
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=271405>

Goodbye everyone.

I'm still confused as to whether Thunderbird is a Mozilla product, or just a product developed by the Thunderbird Council, which has a financial and legal home at MZLA Co, which is a subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation AIUI.

Regardless of financial and corporate structure, Thunderbird is absolutely not a Mozilla product. The development and oversight was given over to the community in 2014.

First and foremost, the code is open source - so Mozilla cannot own the code.  The trademark however is owned by Mozilla Foundation.



Wayne

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Mar 28, 2021, 11:50:38 AMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 3/28/21 11:43 AM, Wayne wrote:
On 3/28/21 11:16 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
On 3/28/21 3:15 AM, Dave Royal wrote:
On 27 Mar 2021 16:20:04 -0400 Chris Ilias wrote:
*WHAT IS HAPPENING*
Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) ..
There have been so few posts recently I began to think the feeds had
already been turned off!

I can now dump this newsreader, which I wrote because I couldn't access
m.s groups on Android.

For anyone using my addon 'Limit non-BCC Recipients' and the old
'Use BCC Instead C', you may be pleased, and amazed, to know that it
should soon be obsolete. After 17 years Mozilla is implementing this
bug:
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=271405>

Goodbye everyone.

I'm still confused as to whether Thunderbird is a Mozilla product, or just a product developed by the Thunderbird Council, which has a financial and legal home at MZLA Co, which is a subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation AIUI.

Regardless of financial and corporate structure, Thunderbird is absolutely not a Mozilla product. The development and oversight was given over to the community in 2014.

Correction - given to the community in 2012.  2014 is when volunteers organized and created the Thunderbird Council, and things went uphill from there.


First and foremost, the code is open source - so Mozilla cannot own the code.  The trademark however is owned by Mozilla Foundation.

I should ask, does this help people's understanding of the status of Mozilla in relation to Thunderbird?

Dave Royal

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Mar 28, 2021, 12:30:55 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
WaltS48 <sch...@invalid.net> wrote:
> On 3/28/21 3:15 AM, Dave Royal wrote:
>> On 27 Mar 2021 16:20:04 -0400 Chris Ilias wrote:
>>> *WHAT IS HAPPENING*
>>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) ..
>> There have been so few posts recently I began to think the feeds had
>> already been turned off!
>>
>> I can now dump this newsreader, which I wrote because I couldn't access
>> m.s groups on Android.
>>
>> For anyone using my addon 'Limit non-BCC Recipients' and the old
>> 'Use BCC Instead C', you may be pleased, and amazed, to know that it
>> should soon be obsolete. After 17 years Mozilla is implementing this
>> bug:
>> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=271405>
>>
>> Goodbye everyone.
>
> I'm still confused as to whether Thunderbird is a Mozilla product ...

My mistake. I should have said the TB team is implementing it. I still
think of it as a Mozilla product, and I think most users do. It says
'Mozilla Thunderbird' at the top of the screen!

My preferred method of reading stuff is by RSS. It works well with
Discourse - for example for new TB Addons topics. Topicbox does not
offer a feed AFAIK.

Jeremy Nicoll

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Mar 28, 2021, 12:34:16 PMMar 28
to ML - mozilla-tb-thunderbird-support
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021, at 16:29, WaltS48 wrote:

> I'd have to check, but I think all the web forums I have accounts for
> offer notifications for replies to my posts.

Yes, many do, but that only solves half the problem. It's fine for
people who only visit a forum when they have a problem and want
help.

It's no good at all for people who want to see all the traffic, to see
if they can help other people, or just want to keep in touch with
common usability issues.

The official forum only shows a handful of issues per screenful
(because there's lots of wasted whitespace and the first few lines
of anyone's post). That's a lot less easy to work with than a decent
email or news client.

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Andy Burns

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Mar 28, 2021, 12:44:18 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Andy Burns wrote:

> Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org).
>
> Indicate any support for alt.comp.software.thunderbird
> over in alt.config

It's been gently pointed out to me that I should NOT have requested
expressions of support over in alt.config, that is just for discussion
of the proposal, not "me too" posts, hopefully Chris won't object to
discussion here if it's confined to this thread in the group's final few
days?

It's also suggested to call any new group "alt.comp.mozilla.thunderbird"
instead of "alt.comp.software.thunderbird", another user has suggested a
similar group for seamonkey which I will include.



Mal

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Mar 28, 2021, 6:34:14 PMMar 28
to support-t...@lists.mozilla.org


On 29/03/2021 3:14 am, Andy Burns wrote:
> It's also suggested to call any new group
> "alt.comp.mozilla.thunderbird" instead of
> "alt.comp.software.thunderbird", another user has suggested a similar
> group for seamonkey which I will include.

Something weird about an organisation who produces mail client software
going to a web based forum.. from a perfectly good mail list

Take less than an hour for someone to turn up mailman and fill in a
future list 'gap'.

BillH

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Mar 28, 2021, 6:59:53 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
"alt.comp.mozilla.thunderbird" sounds good to me. Maybe also
"alt.comp.mozilla.firefox". If something like this is set up I would
move their gladly rather than use the official support forums.

Andy Burns

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Mar 28, 2021, 7:12:20 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
BillH wrote:

> "alt.comp.mozilla.thunderbird" sounds good to me.  Maybe also
> "alt.comp.mozilla.firefox".  If something like this is set up I would
> move their gladly rather than use the official support forums.

I originally proposed alt.comp.software.* then Adam Kerman suggested a
whole third-level hierarchy for alt.comp.mozilla.* but later withdrew
that, so we're back to the original proposed names now ...

BillH

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Mar 28, 2021, 7:42:18 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
I think those would be fine also. Anything with Thunderbird and Firefox
in the name. Once someone sets them up we just need to broadcast them
loud and clear on the current newsgroups.

WaltS48

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Mar 28, 2021, 8:02:12 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 3/28/21 7:42 PM, BillH wrote:
> On 3/28/2021 4:12 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> BillH wrote:
>>
>>> "alt.comp.mozilla.thunderbird" sounds good to me.  Maybe also
>>> "alt.comp.mozilla.firefox".  If something like this is set up I would
>>> move their gladly rather than use the official support forums.
>>
>> I originally proposed alt.comp.software.* then Adam Kerman suggested a
>> whole third-level hierarchy for alt.comp.mozilla.* but later withdrew
>> that, so we're back to the original proposed names now ...
>>
>
> I think those would be fine also.  Anything with Thunderbird and
> Firefox in the name.  Once someone sets them up we just need to
> broadcast them loud and clear on the current newsgroups.
>
> Bill
>

Well, get busy Bill. You only have until 4/3.

Meanwhile I subscribed to alt.fan.mozilla. By the looks of the 100 posts
I downloaded, anything goes there.

I had to apply my Mozi filters to that account for just that group!

Ken Blake

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Mar 28, 2021, 8:53:03 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Same for me.

Nobody

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Mar 28, 2021, 9:33:48 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:02:01 -0400, WaltS48 <sch...@invalid.net>
wrote:

>On 3/28/21 7:42 PM, BillH wrote:
>> On 3/28/2021 4:12 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> BillH wrote:
>>>
>>>> "alt.comp.mozilla.thunderbird" sounds good to me.  Maybe also
>>>> "alt.comp.mozilla.firefox".  If something like this is set up I would
>>>> move their gladly rather than use the official support forums.
>>>
>>> I originally proposed alt.comp.software.* then Adam Kerman suggested a
>>> whole third-level hierarchy for alt.comp.mozilla.* but later withdrew
>>> that, so we're back to the original proposed names now ...
>>>
>>
>> I think those would be fine also.  Anything with Thunderbird and
>> Firefox in the name.  Once someone sets them up we just need to
>> broadcast them loud and clear on the current newsgroups.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>
>Well, get busy Bill. You only have until 4/3.
>
>Meanwhile I subscribed to alt.fan.mozilla. By the looks of the 100 posts
>I downloaded, anything goes there.

"Anything goes" is an underwear statement.

Joy Beeson

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Mar 28, 2021, 9:51:32 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:02:01 -0400, WaltS48 <sch...@invalid.net>
wrote:

> Meanwhile I subscribed to alt.fan.mozilla. By the looks of the 100 posts
> I downloaded, anything goes there.

I found no recent posts, and about half a dozen old ones.

Then there is a screenful or so of posts from people from here
checking in.

I use Eternal September.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

BillH

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Mar 28, 2021, 10:01:32 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Nice try. :-)

I don't have the knowledge or experience. I was hoping someone with
more expertise in the area might be able to set them up.

BillH

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Mar 28, 2021, 10:07:30 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
I see someone setup Thunderb...@groups.io last year.

Chris Ilias

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Mar 28, 2021, 10:11:14 PMMar 28
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 2021-03-28 6:33 p.m., Mal wrote:
> Something weird about an organisation who produces mail client software
> going to a web based forum.. from a perfectly good mail list
>
> Take less than an hour for someone to turn up mailman and fill in a
> future list 'gap'.
>

Hi Mal,
For clarification, Thunderbird support isn't moving from mailing list to
web forum. Primary support for Thunderbird has always been on a web
forum. When Thunderbird was created, the main forum was on MozillaZine,
then it moved to GetSatisfaction, and then in 2014 moved to
support.mozilla.org.

Also, taking down the mailing lists is a Mozilla decision that the
Thunderbird team does not control. Perhaps some time in the future the
Thunderbird team will create a support mailing list.

--
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator

John Whittington

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Mar 28, 2021, 10:15:12 PMMar 28
to BillH, mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
At 23:59 28/03/2021, BillH wrote:
>"alt.comp.mozilla.thunderbird" sounds good to me. Maybe also
>"alt.comp.mozilla.firefox". .....

If they would not going to be involved, would Mozilla be happy for
their name to be used in that way?

Kind Regards,

John

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Mediscience Services Fax: +44 (0) 1296 738893
Twyford Manor, Twyford, E-mail: Joh...@mediscience.co.uk
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Jeff Layman

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Mar 29, 2021, 2:53:42 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Who is Adam H. Kerman, and what does he have to do with Usenet?

--

Jeff

Dave Royal

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Mar 29, 2021, 2:58:27 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 28 Mar 2021 09:07:58 +0100 Andy Burns wrote:
>[Wilf wrote:]
Good luck setting up a NG.

Chris posted this on tb-planning the other day:

--------
Support-thunderbird subscribers can be pointed to the forum at
support.mozilla.org. Most are not really mailing list users, so I don't
see a need to create a replacement, especially a new web-forum.

The breakdown over the past year looks like this:
3796 Total messages posted
3303 via NNTP
101 via Google
392 via mailman (91 different people)
--------

(It surprised me; I always thought most people were on email.)

So that's 9 messages a day over the last year. My observation is it's
been much less than that recently. I think the problems generated by
TB78 maintained traffic over the last year (that's a guess, but it was
why I was here) - especially from old-timers who gather here - and that's
dying down. Maybe TB91 will cause another increase.

Questions on mailman will have generated NNTP traffic so losing that will
reduce it. Ditto google - those are perhaps ordinary users who found m.s.t
via the archive; they won't find a new group.

So if you're to get the 10 posts a day which the guy in the config group
mentioned then you'll have to promote it wider than just here, I think.

Andy Burns

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Mar 29, 2021, 5:00:18 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
BillH wrote:

> I think those would be fine also.  Anything with Thunderbird and Firefox
> in the name.  Once someone sets them up

need to give it a week

Andy Burns

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Mar 29, 2021, 5:04:37 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Joy Beeson wrote:

> WaltS48 wrote:
>
> I found no recent posts, and about half a dozen old ones.
> I use Eternal September.

I use individual.net and it only had 7 messages from the last 3 years,
junk must get filtered out by some servers and not others

Andy Burns

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Mar 29, 2021, 5:06:44 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
John Whittington wrote:


> BillH wrote:
>
>> "alt.comp.mozilla.thunderbird" sounds good to me.  Maybe also
>> "alt.comp.mozilla.firefox". .....
>
> If they would not going to be involved, would Mozilla be happy for their
> name to be used in that way?

I'm reverting to alt.comp.software instead of alt.comp.mozilla for both
groups

Andy Burns

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Mar 29, 2021, 5:19:55 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Dave Royal wrote:

> So if you're to get the 10 posts a day which the guy in the config group
> mentioned then you'll have to promote it wider than just here, I think.

I for one don't want to visit a web forum, it seems several others are
of the same opinion. I don't have the time to promote it anywhere, I
just want something that functions as a replacement for "here", if
anyone else stumbles on it all well and good ...




Ant

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Mar 29, 2021, 7:56:09 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 3/28/2021 6:51 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:02:01 -0400, WaltS48 <sch...@invalid.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Meanwhile I subscribed to alt.fan.mozilla. By the looks of the 100 posts
>> I downloaded, anything goes there.
>
> I found no recent posts, and about half a dozen old ones.
>
> Then there is a screenful or so of posts from people from here
> checking in.

Yep including myself. Let's make it active since we're being evicted
from here! ;)


> I use Eternal September.

(Giga/Super)News here.
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Ant

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Mar 29, 2021, 7:56:25 AMMar 29
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Ditto.

Andy Burns

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Mar 29, 2021, 7:57:30 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Jeff Layman wrote:

> Who is Adam H. Kerman, and what does he have to do with Usenet?

Who knows?

On alt.* nobody is authoritative, but some people seem knowledgeable.

Peter

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Mar 29, 2021, 7:57:47 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 27/03/2021 20:20, Chris Ilias wrote:
> *WHAT IS HAPPENING*
> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org).
>
>
> *WHEN IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN*
> lists.mozilla.org: April 3
> news.mozilla.org: Sometime after April 3
>
>
> *WHAT YOU WILL EXPERIENCE*
> Because all posts to this newsgroup go through the mailing list, no
> messages will be approved after April 3. You will still be able to
> access news.mozilla.org, but there will be no new posts in this
> newsgroup after that. If you try to post a message, it will just not
> appear.
>
> Sometime after that, Giganews will shut down news.mozilla.org, and you
> will no longer be able to access the newsgroup.
>
>
> *WHERE TO FIND THE ARCHIVE*
> The archive of this newsgroup will be kept intact at
> https://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.thunderbird/
> As with other newsgroups that have been shuttered in the past, the
> archive will be read-only.
>
> You can also download all messages before the news server is shut down.
> 1. In your Local Folders account, create a new folder called
> "mozilla.support.thunderbird"
> 2. Open the newsgroup, then go to Edit-->Select-->All.
> 3. Go to Message-->Move_to-->Local_Folders-->mozilla.support.thunderbird
> NOTE: There are over 174,000 messages, so it will take a long time to
> download. You may want to select batches of messages instead of
> selecting all.
>
>
> *WHERE TO GO FOR SUPPORT*
> The primary Thunderbird support forum is at
> https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/thunderbird?show=all
> Other languages can be found at
> https://support.mozilla.org/kb/get-community-support
>
> If you prefer newsgroups, there may be newsgroups on Usenet where you
> can find Thunderbird support. If not, try
> netscape.public.mozilla.mail-news.
>
>
> *WHY THIS IS HAPPENING*
> Mozilla has been migrating off of mailing lists and newsgroups for many
> years now. Many of the mailing lists have already closed down and moved
> to https://discourse.mozilla.org/
> Even though a support web forum already exists, the support
> newsgroups/lists have remained open for the lifetime of the server.
>
>
> *WHERE TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS ANNOUNCEMENT*
> You can reply to this post, and I'll try to answer any questions.
> If you have questions after the shutdown, you can find me in the
> #thunderbird chat room at
> https://chat.mozilla.org/#/room/#thunderbird:mozilla.org or the #sumo
> chat room at https://chat.mozilla.org/#/room/#SUMO:mozilla.org
>
> My display name is cilias
>
What a great shame this is happening. Having enjoyed reading and
learning from it over the years, I will really miss it.

Thank you to everybody who have provided advice and take care.

Peter

WaltS48

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Mar 29, 2021, 8:27:03 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 3/29/21 5:04 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Joy Beeson wrote:
>
>> WaltS48 wrote:
>>
>> I found no recent posts, and about half a dozen old ones.
>> I use Eternal September.
>
WaltS48 didn't write that ^.

Maybe Joy did and was misquoted.

> I use individual.net and it only had 7 messages from the last 3 years,
> junk must get filtered out by some servers and not others

news.us.Usenet-News.net used here.

Referral program ID: *217861*

Andy Burns

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Mar 29, 2021, 10:09:57 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
WaltS48 wrote:

> WaltS48 didn't write that ^.
> Maybe Joy did and was misquoted.

yes, I mis-trimmed the post

> news.us.Usenet-News.net used here.
> Referral program ID: *217861*

Now I should pay more to see extra junk? :-)

WaltS48

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Mar 29, 2021, 10:26:24 AMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Depends on what you look at I suppose.

Been using my last $15 of 100 GB since 2017. Still have over 100 GB left.

If I'm going to be subscribing to extra groups, the extra 50% I get for
a referral would be nice.

Ken Blake

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Mar 29, 2021, 1:12:37 PMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 3/28/2021 5:52 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
Let me add I'm also not interested in using anything but a newsgroup. I
want to use Thunderbird for all "forums," and not two or more programs.

I make a single exception for the Microsoft Windows forums, but I'm not
happy about that, and I'm much less active than I used to be when they
were newsgroups. I think the Microsoft web forums are terrible designed;
newsgroups are much better.

s|b

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Mar 29, 2021, 3:25:53 PMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:02:01 -0400, WaltS48 wrote:

> Well, get busy Bill. You only have until 4/3.

3/4 ;-)

--
s|b

Ken Blake

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Mar 29, 2021, 4:42:15 PMMar 29
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
..75

s|b

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Mar 30, 2021, 4:52:28 PMMar 30
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:42:00 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> > 3/4 ;-)

> ..75

2021 actually.

--
s|b

PietB

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Mar 31, 2021, 5:07:40 AMMar 31
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
> Yes, many do, but that only solves half the problem. It's fine for
> people who only visit a forum when they have a problem and want
> help.
>
> It's no good at all for people who want to see all the traffic,
> to see if they can help other people, or just want to keep in
> touch with common usability issues.

For me the latter has been crucial. Comments in the m.s. newsgroups
have been decisive for me to upgrade or downgrade to the next version
of FF or RB and their new/changes vagaries, bells & whistles, and
window (un)dressing.
Given that these useful contributions are going to disappear, on what
i'd call and indecent short notice, may well lead to either dropping
FF and staying with PaleMoon, with Brave as fallback, or keep the
current FF esr version as another fallback. TB is a different story:
I don't use it for e-mail, just for newsgroups, and for that my old
TB still serves me well.

> The official forum only shows a handful of issues per screenful
> (because there's lots of wasted whitespace and the first few lines
> of anyone's post). That's a lot less easy to work with than a decent
> email or news client.

Whoever invented forums, invented a disaster.

-p

Jeff Layman

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Mar 31, 2021, 6:21:15 AMMar 31
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Although I don't like them, I think that's a bit OTT. In essence, they
are one step on from a moderated NG. However, it's the registering that
I don't like. Does anyone know if there are any forums that you don't
have to register with before you can post?

They do have an advantage over Usenet in that unless the newsgroup is
binary, you have to post pictures elsewhere. With a forum there is
usually the facility to post, eg, a screenshot with the forum post.

--

Jeff

Wayne

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Mar 31, 2021, 9:06:41 AMMar 31
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 3/31/21 6:20 AM, Jeff Layman wrote:
> Does anyone know if there are any forums that you don't have to
> register with before you can post?

In this day and age, where spammers rule, you'd be hard pressed to find
a decent place that would offer such a service via a newsgroup.  It
would involve significant infrastructure and manpower that would shut
down the spammers - coincidentally, such as what Mozilla has provided to
this point in news.mozilla.org.

Which is why registered services now rule.  But some provide decent
email capability.  Which is why the Thunderbird mailing lists and
mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird newsgroup  are moving to
https://discuss.thunderbird.net/groups/_tojoin

BillH

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Mar 31, 2021, 11:40:51 AMMar 31
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
I don't see one that seems to be appropriate for just general discussion
of Thunderbird topics which happens here. They are all very specific as
to their intent. Which one would you use for questions and discussion
of more general topics?

Wayne

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Mar 31, 2021, 12:03:21 PMMar 31
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Yes, what is offered there are focused groups

Support and general product usage Q&A is offered only at SUMO
https://support.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird where we have the
knowledge base articles, the broadest depth of support coverage,
metrics, and multilingual capability.

BillH

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Mar 31, 2021, 12:18:28 PMMar 31
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
Unfortunately, those forums are horrible to use compared to the
newsgroup or mailing list or even better forum software like phpBB and
others.

I was hoping for something better. Hopefully something to replace the
newsgroups will get going on groups.io. or somewhere else.

Chris Ilias

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Mar 31, 2021, 12:36:53 PMMar 31
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 2021-03-31 11:40 a.m., BillH wrote:
> I don't see one that seems to be appropriate for just general discussion
> of Thunderbird topics which happens here.  They are all very specific as
> to their intent.  Which one would you use for questions and discussion
> of more general topics?


"general discussion of Thunderbird topics which happens here"?

General discussion of Thunderbird topics doesn't happen here. :)

This is a support forum.

--
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator

Jeremy Nicoll

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Mar 31, 2021, 1:05:19 PMMar 31
to ML - mozilla-tb-thunderbird-support
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021, at 17:18, BillH wrote:

> I was hoping for something better. Hopefully something to replace the
> newsgroups will get going on groups.io. or somewhere else.

See:
https://groups.io/g/thunderbird
(which maybe doesn't allow attachments to posts)

and
https://groups.io/g/thunderbirdemail (which does allow them)

and (for Firefox):
https://groups.io/g/firefox-support

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

BillH

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Mar 31, 2021, 2:07:31 PMMar 31
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 3/31/2021 10:04 AM, Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2021, at 17:18, BillH wrote:
>
>> I was hoping for something better. Hopefully something to replace the
>> newsgroups will get going on groups.io. or somewhere else.
>
> See:
> https://groups.io/g/thunderbird
> (which maybe doesn't allow attachments to posts)
>
> and
> https://groups.io/g/thunderbirdemail (which does allow them)
>
> and (for Firefox):
> https://groups.io/g/firefox-support
>

I have, but there are very few posts there since they were created. I
hope things take off there or somewhere else.

WaltS48

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Mar 31, 2021, 4:31:33 PMMar 31
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 3/31/21 2:07 PM, BillH wrote:
> On 3/31/2021 10:04 AM, Jeremy Nicoll wrote: >> On Wed, 31 Mar 2021, at 17:18, BillH wrote: >> >>> I was hoping for
something better. Hopefully something to >>> replace the newsgroups will
get going on groups.io. or somewhere >>> else. >> >> See:
https://groups.io/g/thunderbird (which maybe doesn't allow >>
attachments to posts) >> >> and https://groups.io/g/thunderbirdemail
(which does allow them) >> >> and (for Firefox):
https://groups.io/g/firefox-support >> > > I have, but there are very
few posts there since they were created. > I hope things take off there
or somewhere else. > > Bill >
You just want to chat? Use the #thunderbird channel on FreeNode.

Select any account in the Folder Pane.
Click Chat under "Set Up Another Account" in the Account Hub.
Select IRC from the "Chat Account Wizard".
Enter a Username.
Click Next.
Enter a Password.
Click Next.
Select the "Join Chat" button after you are connected.
Enter #thunderbird in the Channel field and enable Auto-Join.
Click OK.
Repeat "Join Chat" for the #firefox channel.

Support has already been pointed to at SUMO, or mozillaZine.




Big Al

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Mar 31, 2021, 8:38:31 PMMar 31
to mozilla-suppo...@lists.mozilla.org
On 3/31/21 1:04 PM, this is what Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2021, at 17:18, BillH wrote:
>
>> I was hoping for something better. Hopefully something to replace the
>> newsgroups will get going on groups.io. or somewhere else.
>
> See:
> https://groups.io/g/thunderbird
> (which maybe doesn't allow attachments to posts)
>
> and
> https://groups.io/g/thunderbirdemail (which does allow them)
>
> and (for Firefox):
> https://groups.io/g/firefox-support
>
Heavy traffic. 8 msgs on TB group for May and 12 for the FF group.

--
Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.1 64bit, Dell Inspiron 5570 laptop
Quad Core i7-8550U, 16G Memory, 512G SSD, 750G & 1TB HDDs
*I collect teddy bears.

Ant

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Mar 31, 2021, 8:40:35 PMMar 31