Thunderbird not syncing SENT Mail with other clients

[John Wolf]

This is similar to my last thread EXCEPT in this case I am sending email
from another mail client, and trusting in Thunderbird to sync that email
from the other clients sent mail folder which is not happening in TB
when using Apple iCloud. Please advise. I have everything set to default
and TB seems to work fine with Gmail, so this may be a TB bug.
--
Sent on Thunderbird for the Mac
You don't believe in God or the Bible?
http://www.cerm.info/bible_studies/Apologetics/creationism.html

[Wolf K.]

On 2016-07-08 18:37, John Wolf wrote:
> This is similar to my last thread EXCEPT in this case I am sending email
> from another mail client, and trusting in Thunderbird to sync that email
> from the other clients sent mail folder which is not happening in TB
> when using Apple iCloud. Please advise. I have everything set to default
> and TB seems to work fine with Gmail, so this may be a TB bug.

iCloud is not an email client.

--
Best,
Wolf K.
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

[John Wolf]

ICloud.com has a email application in it yes.

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 04:25 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/8/16 7:41 PM, Wolf K. wrote:
>> On 2016-07-08 18:37, John Wolf wrote:
>>> This is similar to my last thread EXCEPT in this case I am sending email
>>> from another mail client, and trusting in Thunderbird to sync that email
>>> from the other clients sent mail folder which is not happening in TB
>>> when using Apple iCloud. Please advise. I have everything set to default
>>> and TB seems to work fine with Gmail, so this may be a TB bug.
>>
>> iCloud is not an email client.
>>
>
> ICloud.com has a email application in it yes.
>

Some email accounts have 2 sent folders, typically Google ones.

Have you verified the iCloud client stores the sent email
in proper IMAP folder and TB is set to sync with this folder ?

I do not have problem with TB to see emails
sent e.g. by K9 Android clients.

--
Poutnik ( the Pilgrim, der Wanderer )

[Wolf K.]

On 2016-07-08 22:25, John Wolf wrote:
> On 7/8/16 7:41 PM, Wolf K. wrote:
>> On 2016-07-08 18:37, John Wolf wrote:
>>> This is similar to my last thread EXCEPT in this case I am sending email
>>> from another mail client, and trusting in Thunderbird to sync that email
>>> from the other clients sent mail folder which is not happening in TB
>>> when using Apple iCloud. Please advise. I have everything set to default
>>> and TB seems to work fine with Gmail, so this may be a TB bug.
>>
>> iCloud is not an email client.
>>
>
> ICloud.com has a email application in it yes.

Actually, it's Apple Mail. iCloud is just an off-site (remote)
data-storage service. Mail works without iCloud. iCloud snoops to see
whether there's new data generated by Mail, and it then stores that data
on its servers.

If you use the same address(es) in all email clients, and they all use
IMAP, then the folders for each address will sync from any device from
which you access your mail. But you can't sync the folders from
different addresses. If you could do that, you could easily snoop
someone else's email and vice versa.

Some clarification about iCloud:

iCloud is set up to link automatically to Apple's "apps", such as Notes
and Calendar. All of these apps work without iCloud, which is merely an
off-site (remote) data storage service. There may be a setting to link
it to other programs, you can find out by exploring the Options/Preferences.

Have a good day,

[John Wolf]

I use the same email address in all my email clients which by the way
has a @icloud.com ending, yet TB is the only one that will not sync my
sent mail folder. When I log into icloud.com I am able to use a web
based version of Apple Mail.

[Caver1]

I take it you set up the iCloud account in TB with the
correct password.

--
Caver1

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 17:53 John Wolf napsal(a):

>
> I use the same email address in all my email clients which by the way
> has a @icloud.com ending, yet TB is the only one that will not sync my
> sent mail folder. When I log into icloud.com I am able to use a web
> based version of Apple Mail.
>

Check within TB IMAP email account settings

1/ what folder the TB puts the sent email to

2/ Does the folder belong to the same account,
or is it placed elsewhere - like e.g. in local folders ?

2a/ if the former, is account subscribed to syncing this folder ?
2b/ if the latter, it will not be synced.

--
Poutnik

[John Wolf]

I am able to send and receive email so I have the correct password.

[John Wolf]

I just checked all this and its the SENT folder on the icloud.com
server. TB is set to store mail on this folder, however the sent mail is
still not being synced to TB so I may have found a TB glitch.

If anyone here has a Mac try the following.

1) Loginto icloud.com and click on Mail
2) Send a email
3) Check TB and see if the sent mail is being synced over.

[John Wolf]

On 7/9/16 10:11 AM, Poutnik wrote:

Oh I see what TB is doing. Its storing its sent mail on another SENT
FOLDER on the icloud.com server instead of the standard sent mail
folder. I tried selecting the regular sent mail folder in TB but it does
not work.

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 18:42 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/9/16 10:11 AM, Poutnik wrote:

>> Check within TB IMAP email account settings
>>
>> 1/ what folder the TB puts the sent email to
>>
>> 2/ Does the folder belong to the same account,
>> or is it placed elsewhere - like e.g. in local folders ?
>>
>> 2a/ if the former, is account subscribed to syncing this folder ?
>> 2b/ if the latter, it will not be synced.
>>
>
>
> Oh I see what TB is doing. Its storing its sent mail on another SENT
> FOLDER on the icloud.com server instead of the standard sent mail
> folder. I tried selecting the regular sent mail folder in TB but it does
> not work.
>
>

Not all sent folders are the same.
Gmail accounts have 2 ones.
I can set TB to both of them.
I put sent Usenet mgs to the one and sent emails to the other.

Sometimes web email folders are not real IMAP folders,
but email are just tagged to belong to them.
It allows 1 email copy to be in multiple folders.

--
Poutnik

[John Wolf]

Regardless TB is not working correctly with icloud email.

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 19:26 John Wolf napsal(a):

>
> Regardless TB is not working correctly with icloud email.
>

Or otherwise.

People are often too fast with the root cause.
It can be fault of icloud a/o a user as well.

--
Poutnik

[Wolf K.]

On 2016-07-09 13:26, John Wolf wrote:
> On 7/9/16 11:10 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>> Dne 09/07/2016 v 18:42 John Wolf napsal(a):
>>> On 7/9/16 10:11 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>>
>>>> Check within TB IMAP email account settings
>>>>
>>>> 1/ what folder the TB puts the sent email to
>>>>
>>>> 2/ Does the folder belong to the same account,
>>>> or is it placed elsewhere - like e.g. in local folders ?
>>>>
>>>> 2a/ if the former, is account subscribed to syncing this folder ?
>>>> 2b/ if the latter, it will not be synced.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oh I see what TB is doing. Its storing its sent mail on another SENT
>>> FOLDER on the icloud.com server instead of the standard sent mail
>>> folder. I tried selecting the regular sent mail folder in TB but it does
>>> not work.
>>>
>>>
>> Not all sent folders are the same.
>> Gmail accounts have 2 ones.
>> I can set TB to both of them.
>> I put sent Usenet mgs to the one and sent emails to the other.
>>
>> Sometimes web email folders are not real IMAP folders,
>> but email are just tagged to belong to them.
>> It allows 1 email copy to be in multiple folders.
>>
>
>
> Regardless TB is not working correctly with icloud email.

What happens when you use Apple Mail to Send a message (ie, not iCloud)?

I'd say you have it backwards: it seems to me that iCloud is not working
correctly. It should place a copy on its mail server in the Sent folder
for that account/address, and that Sent folder should be visible to any
email client that uses IMAP and is operating that account, from any
device, on any operating system, with or without an iCloud account. In
IMAP, the default is to store Sent mail on the mailserver. That's how
you can access your email from any email client on any device on which
you have set up that email account.

You can configure local clients (eg, on a Mac) to download and store
copies of Sent messages locally for that account. Some people configure
all their devices this way, some do it just for one device.

[John Wolf]

If it was icloud that was not working correctly why then does MS Outlook
work fine? I am able to use apple mail with my gmail account just fine.

[John Wolf]

I am able to send email and have it stored on the sent mail folder using
apple Mail and MS Outlook with my iCloud account just fine.

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:04 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/9/16 12:13 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>> Dne 09/07/2016 v 19:26 John Wolf napsal(a):
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Regardless TB is not working correctly with icloud email.
>>>
>> Or otherwise.
>>
>> People are often too fast with the root cause.
>> It can be fault of icloud a/o a user as well.
>>
>
> I am able to send email and have it stored on the sent mail folder using
> apple Mail and MS Outlook with my iCloud account just fine.
>

I am able to send email and have it stored on the sent mail folder using

TB with several IMAP accounts and one Usenet account just fine as well,
so I would not be so sure it must be TB fault.

--
Poutnik

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:04 John Wolf napsal(a):

>

> If it was icloud that was not working correctly why then does MS Outlook
> work fine? I am able to use apple mail with my gmail account just fine.
>

If it was TB that was not working correctly
why then it does work fine
with gmail and non gmail IMAP accounts ?

Real causes often differ from "obvious" causes.

You have not eliminated the human factor yet.


--
Poutnik

[John Wolf]

As am I with gmail but not with iCloud.

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:16 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/9/16 2:11 PM, Poutnik wrote:

>>> I am able to send email and have it stored on the sent mail folder using
>>> apple Mail and MS Outlook with my iCloud account just fine.
>>>
>>
>> I am able to send email and have it stored on the sent mail folder using
>> TB with several IMAP accounts and one Usenet account just fine as well,
>> so I would not be so sure it must be TB fault.
>>
>
> As am I with gmail but not with iCloud.
>

There is still an option you keep TB misconfigured
to work with icloud properly.


--
Poutnik

[John Wolf]

Everything is configured correctly on my end. Place a copy in the sent
mail folder on the icloud.com server is checked.

[John Wolf]

What is that option?

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:20 John Wolf napsal(a):

>
> Everything is configured correctly on my end. Place a copy in the sent
> mail folder on the icloud.com server is checked.
>

What about folder IMAP subscription ?

Are you able to move any email from other folders
to this Sent folder for test purposes ?


--
Poutnik

[John Wolf]

I am not following.

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:48 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/9/16 2:36 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>> Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:20 John Wolf napsal(a):
>>>
>>> Everything is configured correctly on my end. Place a copy in the sent
>>> mail folder on the icloud.com server is checked.
>>>
>>
>> What about folder IMAP subscription ?
>>
>> Are you able to move any email from other folders
>> to this Sent folder for test purposes ?
>>
>
> I am not following.
>

...but you are sure you have it configured OK.

--
Poutnik

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:48 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/9/16 2:36 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>> Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:20 John Wolf napsal(a):
>>>
>>> Everything is configured correctly on my end. Place a copy in the sent
>>> mail folder on the icloud.com server is checked.
>>>
>>
>> What about folder IMAP subscription ?
>>
>> Are you able to move any email from other folders
>> to this Sent folder for test purposes ?
>>
>>
>
> I am not following.
>

What is subscription status of Sent folders
in the TB IMAP folder list of the email account ?

--
Poutnik

[John Wolf]

It is set to download on my Mac.

[John Wolf]

Bye the way do you have an IM account (google talk, Skype, AIM)? I could
send you screenshots that way.

[Wolf K.]

On 2016-07-09 16:04, John Wolf wrote:

Wolf K wrote:
[....]

>> >What happens when you use Apple Mail to Send a message (ie, not iCloud)?
>> >
>> >I'd say you have it backwards: it seems to me that iCloud is not working

>> >correctly. It should place a copy on its mailserver in the Sent folder

>> >for that account/address, and that Sent folder should be visible to any
>> >email client that uses IMAP and is operating that account, from any
>> >device, on any operating system, with or without an iCloud account. In
>> >IMAP, the default is to store Sent mail on the mailserver. That's how
>> >you can access your email from any email client on any device on which
>> >you have set up that email account.
>> >
>> >You can configure local clients (eg, on a Mac) to download and store
>> >copies of Sent messages locally for that account. Some people configure
>> >all their devices this way, some do it just for one device.
>> >
>
> If it was icloud that was not working correctly why then does MS Outlook
> work fine?

Have you set TB to synchronise?

Tools > Account Settings > Synchronization & Storage > various settings.
Set "Synchronize all messages regardless of age". If you do not see
these options, then you have set up TBird to use POP instead of IMAP.

More here:
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/imap-synchronization

Scroll down to "Configuring Synchronization and Disk Space Usage". Note
that you have to set up synchronization for each account (address)
separately. If you have more than the built-in folders (Inbox, Sent,
etc), you must synchronise each one, and any subfolders, separately. You
can of course synchronise differently on different devices, which may be
useful for you.

>I am able to use apple mail with my gmail account just fine.

Because of past comments, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean via
the iCloud webmail portal, or do you mean with Apple Mail alone (not
with iCloud)?

You must set up all accounts (addresses) on all clients. The clients you
have listed so far are Apple Mail, MS Outlook, and Thunderbird. They
must all be set up to use IMAP, and each one has different defaults for
synchronisation, so you may have to fiddle with that, too.....

HTH

[John Wolf]

TB is set to sync just fine under those settings and I just checked.

>
> Scroll down to "Configuring Synchronization and Disk Space Usage".

I am not seeing that option on the Mac version of TB.

Note
> that you have to set up synchronization for each account (address)
> separately. If you have more than the built-in folders (Inbox, Sent,
> etc), you must synchronise each one, and any subfolders, separately. You
> can of course synchronise differently on different devices, which may be
> useful for you.
>
>> I am able to use apple mail with my gmail account just fine.
>
> Because of past comments, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean via
> the iCloud webmail portal, or do you mean with Apple Mail alone (not
> with iCloud)?
>

With both the Mac application and the web portal.

> You must set up all accounts (addresses) on all clients. The clients you
> have listed so far are Apple Mail, MS Outlook, and Thunderbird. They
> must all be set up to use IMAP, and each one has different defaults for
> synchronisation, so you may have to fiddle with that, too.....
>
> HTH

All is set for IMAP

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 23:01 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/9/16 2:58 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>>>
>>
>> What is subscription status of Sent folders
>> in the TB IMAP folder list of the email account ?
>>
>
> It is set to download on my Mac.
>

Subscription and download are 2 independent settings.

--
Poutnik

[John Wolf]

Everything it set to default and I have not fiddled with anything.

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 23:43 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/9/16 3:38 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>>
>> Subscription and download are 2 independent settings.
>
> Everything it set to default and I have not fiddled with anything.
>

If defaults do not work, it is time for fiddling.

--
Poutnik

[John Wolf]

Until you can register for an icloud.com email address and use it with
TB I am afraid nothing you say will help me as you are shooting in the
dark with no experience.

[Poutnik]

Dne 10/07/2016 v 00:12 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/9/16 4:08 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>> Dne 09/07/2016 v 23:43 John Wolf napsal(a):
>>> On 7/9/16 3:38 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Subscription and download are 2 independent settings.
>>>
>>> Everything it set to default and I have not fiddled with anything.
>>>
>>
>> If defaults do not work, it is time for fiddling.
>>
>
> Until you can register for an icloud.com email address and use it with
> TB I am afraid nothing you say will help me as you are shooting in the
> dark with no experience.
>

Like you with the TB... :-)
If it does not work it must be wrong.
Yourself being wrong is not an option.

--
Poutnik

[Good Guy]

On 09/07/2016 23:12, John Wolf wrote:

Until you can register for an icloud.com email address and use it with TB I am afraid nothing you say will help me as you are shooting in the dark with no experience.

I have noticed that not everybody can register for an iCloud Email account.   you need to be on IoS or Apple Mac machine to open an email account.  Windows users can open general iCloud account without the email facilities, but you get 1TB Cloud disk space. 

--

With over 350 million devices now running Windows 10, customer satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

[John Wolf]

If I am wrong I will humbly admit it but there must be evidence of this,
and I would like you to try it to see for yourself. I posted on Mac
rumors but no one has replied thus far as I bet most there are not using
TB. So can you help me?

[Wolf K.]

On 2016-07-09 17:37, John Wolf wrote:

I wrote:
>> More here:
>> >https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/imap-synchronization
>
> TB is set to sync just fine under those settings and I just checked.
>
>> >
>> >Scroll down to "Configuring Synchronization and Disk Space Usage".
> I am not seeing that option on the Mac version of TB.

That scroll down refers to the website (link given above).

[John Wolf]

Thanks I tried that and it still does not sync properly with icloud.

[Wolf K.]

On 2016-07-09 18:35, John Wolf wrote:
> If I am wrong I will humbly admit it but there must be evidence of this,
> and I would like you to try it to see for yourself. I posted on Mac
> rumors but no one has replied thus far as I bet most there are not using
> TB. So can you help me?

http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/141822/how-can-i-configure-icloud-mail-in-mozilla-thunderbird

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1026598

http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/using-icloud-email-in-thunderbird.1263046/
(Scroll down to guilleveascos's post "How I configured....")

http://www.icloudhowtoblog.com/config-icloud-email-with-mozilla-thunderbird/index.html

Search on "iCloud does not synchronize with Thunderbird" for more.

Have a good day,

[John Wolf]

Well all of these threads are about people who cannot connect to icloud
at all with thunderbird. TB does work as far as sending and receiving
mail, it just does not sync the SENT MAIL folder instead the SENT Mail
folder is synced to another SENT MAIL folder on the icloud.com server
for some reason.

[Poutnik]

Dne 10/07/2016 v 01:23 John Wolf napsal(a):

>
> Well all of these threads are about people who cannot connect to icloud
> at all with thunderbird. TB does work as far as sending and receiving
> mail, it just does not sync the SENT MAIL folder instead the SENT Mail
> folder is synced to another SENT MAIL folder on the icloud.com server
> for some reason.
>
>

How exactly does not work
switching TB Sent folder to the other iCloud Sent folder ?

Does TB refuse the storage operation saying it is not possible ?
Does TB pretend it is done, but in reality it is not ?

What is list of standard IMAP folders in iCloud account ?

I usually do not use TB settings "Sent Folder in account XX"
but the option "Other"
and choose a particular folder in particular account.

It is usually just the Sent folder in the same account.
But if result is not what is expected,
I investigate folder structure and try eventually
the other Sent account, as seen in the screenshot.

And it always works. If it does not,
IMAP protocol on iCloud does not work correctly.

See screenshot - Czech language should not confuse you,
important is the dialog layout.

https://s20.postimg.org/ap221ikod/TB_Sent_folder.png

--
Poutnik

[Poutnik]

Dne 11/07/2016 v 08:34 Poutnik napsal(a):

> See screenshot - Czech language should not confuse you,
> important is the dialog layout.
>
> https://s20.postimg.org/ap221ikod/TB_Sent_folder.png
>

"Odeslaná pošta" means Sent folder.

--
Poutnik

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:21 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/9/16 2:19 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>> Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:16 John Wolf napsal(a):
>>> On 7/9/16 2:11 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>>
>>>>> I am able to send email and have it stored on the sent mail folder using
>>>>> apple Mail and MS Outlook with my iCloud account just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am able to send email and have it stored on the sent mail folder using
>>>> TB with several IMAP accounts and one Usenet account just fine as well,
>>>> so I would not be so sure it must be TB fault.
>>>>
>>>
>>> As am I with gmail but not with iCloud.
>>>
>>
>> There is still an option you keep TB misconfigured
>> to work with icloud properly.
>
> What is that option?

I mean possibility.

IMAP4 protocol is able to move a post
to any of offered account folders the IMAP client is subscribed to.

If the client is not subscribed to both Sent folders,
it is possible the move to one of them does not work.

--
Poutnik

[Poutnik]

Dne 11/07/2016 v 08:53 Poutnik napsal(a):

See these 2 screenshots

https://s20.postimg.org/st52m5ict/Account_settings.png
https://s20.postimg.org/9ckczmn8t/Subscription_manager.png

--
Poutnik

[Poutnik]

Dne 09/07/2016 v 23:02 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/9/16 2:58 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>> Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:48 John Wolf napsal(a):
>>> On 7/9/16 2:36 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>>>> Dne 09/07/2016 v 22:20 John Wolf napsal(a):
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything is configured correctly on my end. Place a copy in the sent
>>>>> mail folder on the icloud.com server is checked.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What about folder IMAP subscription ?
>>>>
>>>> Are you able to move any email from other folders
>>>> to this Sent folder for test purposes ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am not following.
>>>
>>
>> What is subscription status of Sent folders
>> in the TB IMAP folder list of the email account ?
>>
>
> Bye the way do you have an IM account (google talk, Skype, AIM)? I could
> send you screenshots that way.
>

I hope you will not take it personally
but I provide my IM IDs only to people
I know well in the real life.

I usually use free image sharing services for that matter,
like https://postimg.org

--
Poutnik

[Poutnik]

Dne 11/07/2016 v 08:34 Poutnik napsal(a):

>

> See screenshot - Czech language should not confuse you,
> important is the dialog layout.
>
> https://s20.postimg.org/ap221ikod/TB_Sent_folder.png
>

Sometimes the same folder
is presented with 2 different names
in different dialogs,
probably an internal and a displayed name.

But that occurs probably in non EN localizations only.

--
Poutnik

[Tanstaafl]

On 7/9/2016 1:10 PM, Poutnik <poutni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not all sent folders are the same.

True

> Gmail accounts have 2 ones.

Only if you create the second one. By default, it only has one.

> I can set TB to both of them.

? Not for the same account you can't, unless you're using an Adodn or
something.

> I put sent Usenet mgs to the one and sent emails to the other.

Ok, yeah. two different accounts.

> Sometimes web email folders are not real IMAP folders,
> but email are just tagged to belong to them.
> It allows 1 email copy to be in multiple folders.

Well... not exactly. GMail labels work similarly (in practice at least)
to TB's 'Virtual Folders' - they simply allow different virtual folders
to display the same message(s) in different places. The email itself is
only stored once.

[Poutnik]

Dne 11/07/2016 v 14:22 Tanstaafl napsal(a):

> On 7/9/2016 1:10 PM, Poutnik <poutni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Not all sent folders are the same.
>
> True
>
>> Gmail accounts have 2 ones.
>
> Only if you create the second one. By default, it only has one.

Why would I create an extra Sent folder ??

Sent folders are not the only ones
occuring twice for me in Gmail accounts.
Also concepts or trash bins.

>
>> I can set TB to both of them.
>
> ? Not for the same account you can't, unless you're using an Adodn or
> something.

Well, not simultaneously for the same account.

>
>> I put sent Usenet mgs to the one and sent emails to the other.
>
> Ok, yeah. two different accounts.

Sure, for the Gmail account to one
and for Usenet account, using that Gmail account as Usenet address
to the other one.

One is named Odeslana pošta ( localized SENT )
and one is named IMAP/trash.


--
Poutnik

[Tanstaafl]

On 7/11/2016 4:12 PM, Poutnik <poutni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dne 11/07/2016 v 14:22 Tanstaafl napsal(a):

>> On 7/9/2016 1:10 PM, Poutnik <poutni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Not all sent folders are the same.

>> True

>>> Gmail accounts have 2 ones.

>> Only if you create the second one. By default, it only has one.

> Why would I create an extra Sent folder ??

You wouldn't have to do it yourself - when using the default, TB will
create one named 'Sent' if it doesn't exist the first time you send an
email.

> Sent folders are not the only ones
> occuring twice for me in Gmail accounts.
> Also concepts or trash bins.

Again, TB will create them the first time you engage that action (in
this case delete a message) if the named target folder doesn't exist.

[Poutnik]

Dne 11/07/2016 v 23:20 Tanstaafl napsal(a):

Hm, but is not it a contraversy ?

To have 2 ones, TB would have to create the 2nd one,
even if there is one already.

Perhaps it applies only to non EN users / email provider / clients,
if original Sent folder
has display or even internal name different to Sent ?

--
Poutnik

[Tanstaafl]

On 7/12/2016 12:56 AM, Poutnik <poutni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dne 11/07/2016 v 23:20 Tanstaafl napsal(a):

>> Again, TB will create them the first time you engage that action (in
>> this case delete a message) if the named target folder doesn't exist.

> Hm, but is not it a contraversy ?

No, it isn't.

> To have 2 ones, TB would have to create the 2nd one,
> even if there is one already.

TB has no clue what *other* clients are using for the Sent folder. It
only know what *you tell it* to use via the pref.

> Perhaps it applies only to non EN users / email provider / clients,
> if original Sent folder
> has display or even internal name different to Sent ?

Mo. Again, whether or not some other client(s) is(are) using "Sent
Items", if you tell TB to use 'Sent', that is what it will use.

[Chris Ramsden]

On 2016-07-12 13:14, Tanstaafl wrote:

> Mo. Again, whether or not some other client(s) is(are) using "Sent
> Items", if you tell TB to use 'Sent', that is what it will use.

OK, but…

Thunderbird has flags which set icons on folders. There is an add-on
which exposes these flags and allows you to set or clear them. I don't
know whether or not these flags bestow any particular magical powers on
a folder. For instance, the "empty" option in a context menu only
appears with certain folders, typically those for Trash. I think the
flags are important in the context of Unified Folders view, so
regardless of its name, a folder containing UCE could be called "Spam"
or "Junk" or "Bad Stuff" and would appear in the aggregated virtual
"Junk" folder, so long as it had the Junk flag set on it.

And there is a flag for "Sent", which at the very least, applies some
standardized icon to your Sent folders. I don't know if it confers any
special attributes onto the Sent folder; if I had both "Sent" and "Sent
Items", I'd be inclined to check they were both designated as "Sent" type.
--
Chris

[Tanstaafl]

On 7/12/2016 10:25 AM, Chris Ramsden <chris....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2016-07-12 13:14, Tanstaafl wrote:

>> No. Again, whether or not some other client(s) is(are) using "Sent

>> Items", if you tell TB to use 'Sent', that is what it will use.

> OK, but…
>
> Thunderbird has flags which set icons on folders. There is an add-on
> which exposes these flags and allows you to set or clear them.

Interesting... link?

> I don't know whether or not these flags bestow any particular magical
> powers on a folder.

I don't see how they could possibly override the explicit preference
defining what folder to use for the Sent folder.

Personally, I think the OPs problem is due to an incomplete/incorrect
understanding of how IMAP works.

I have offered a free remote support session to help determine the cause
(and confirm the bug if it is one, which I strongly doubt), but haven't
heard back from him yet.

[Poutnik]

Dne 12/07/2016 v 14:14 Tanstaafl napsal(a):

> On 7/12/2016 12:56 AM, Poutnik <poutni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> To have 2 ones, TB would have to create the 2nd one,
>> even if there is one already.
>
> TB has no clue what *other* clients are using for the Sent folder. It
> only know what *you tell it* to use via the pref.

As below.
I do not use other clients than TB these few years,
except of web access on computers that are not mine.

>
>> Perhaps it applies only to non EN users / email provider / clients,
>> if original Sent folder
>> has display or even internal name different to Sent ?
>
> Mo. Again, whether or not some other client(s) is(are) using "Sent
> Items", if you tell TB to use 'Sent', that is what it will use.
>

I am well aware of TB using the folder I tell TB to use,
and I do exactly the same with TB on several computers and platform.

--
Poutnik

[Poutnik]

Dne 12/07/2016 v 18:59 Poutnik napsal(a):

> Dne 12/07/2016 v 14:14 Tanstaafl napsal(a):

>>

>> Mo. Again, whether or not some other client(s) is(are) using "Sent
>> Items", if you tell TB to use 'Sent', that is what it will use.
>>
> I am well aware of TB using the folder I tell TB to use,
> and I do exactly the same with TB on several computers and platform.
>

P.S.> by other words, I know TB can use any remote folder
for copies of the sent emails. The point is that
all involved clients should use the same one,
what seems not to happen for the OP.

--
Poutnik

[Good Guy]

On 12/07/2016 18:14, Poutnik wrote:

P.S.> by other words, I know TB can use any remote folder
for copies of the sent emails. The point is that
all involved clients should use the same one,
what seems not to happen for the OP.

Without knowing/seeing the setup created by the OP it is difficult to know everything but I use Yahoo servers to store all my posts in these newsgroups and on Windows newsgroups.  I find that keeping copies on a remote server is better than having on the machine.  This also helps in my workflow of formatting the HD often (in my case every 18 months) and I save time doing all sorts of backups and all that.

In short, saving messages on a remote server works at my end.

[Poutnik]

Dne 12/07/2016 v 19:31 Good Guy napsal(a):

>
> Without knowing/seeing the setup created by the OP it is difficult to
> know everything but I use Yahoo servers to store all my posts in these
> newsgroups and on Windows newsgroups. I find that keeping copies on a
> remote server is better than having on the machine. This also helps in
> my workflow of formatting the HD often (in my case every 18 months) and
> I save time doing all sorts of backups and all that.
>
> In short, saving messages on a remote server works at my end.
>

I use the same approach keeping email ( for 2 google groups )
and Usenet sent msgs in separate folders of the same email account.


--
Poutnik

[Tanstaafl]

On 7/12/2016 1:14 PM, Poutnik <poutni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dne 12/07/2016 v 18:59 Poutnik napsal(a):

>> Dne 12/07/2016 v 14:14 Tanstaafl napsal(a):

>>> No. Again, whether or not some other client(s) is(are) using "Sent

>>> Items", if you tell TB to use 'Sent', that is what it will use.

>> I am well aware of TB using the folder I tell TB to use,
>> and I do exactly the same with TB on several computers and platform.

Then why did you ask "Why would I create an extra Sent folder?"?

> P.S.> by other words, I know TB can use any remote folder
> for copies of the sent emails. The point is that
> all involved clients should use the same one,
> what seems not to happen for the OP.

I knowm most likely cause is a broken expectation of how IMAP works.
I'll wager it is working perfectly but the OP is confused by what he is
seeing, and just needs to understand it and act accordingly.

[John Wolf]

Wanna bet? I need my SENT MAIL folder to sync with icloud.com and this
is not happening in TB. It does however happen in Apple Mail and Mac
Outlook 2011.

[Poutnik]

Dne 12/07/2016 v 20:25 Tanstaafl napsal(a):

> On 7/12/2016 1:14 PM, Poutnik <poutni...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dne 12/07/2016 v 18:59 Poutnik napsal(a):
>>> Dne 12/07/2016 v 14:14 Tanstaafl napsal(a):
>>>> No. Again, whether or not some other client(s) is(are) using "Sent
>>>> Items", if you tell TB to use 'Sent', that is what it will use.
>
>>> I am well aware of TB using the folder I tell TB to use,
>>> and I do exactly the same with TB on several computers and platform.
>
> Then why did you ask "Why would I create an extra Sent folder?"?

As I did not. I use those already present.

--
Poutnik

[Poutnik]

Dne 13/07/2016 v 00:27 John Wolf napsal(a):

>
> Wanna bet? I need my SENT MAIL folder to sync with icloud.com and this
> is not happening in TB. It does however happen in Apple Mail and Mac
> Outlook 2011.
>

Are you able to move/copy to the Sent remote folder
any email manually from other folders by TB ?

Does Tb provide any error message ?

did you try to use OTHER option ?
https://postimg.org/image/47rbql0sh/

What is list of account imap folders ?
https://postimg.org/image/8lrmtukvd/ ( the 3rd option )
https://postimg.org/image/9ckczmn8p/


--
Poutnik

[Poutnik]

Dne 13/07/2016 v 06:20 Poutnik napsal(a):

>
> did you try to use OTHER option ?
> https://postimg.org/image/47rbql0sh/
>
> What is list of account imap folders ?
> https://postimg.org/image/8lrmtukvd/ ( the 3rd option )
> https://postimg.org/image/9ckczmn8p/
>
>

P.S.: As I remember few years ago
it happened after TB account creation
that TB had stored sent emails in different folder
than web client.

I switched to The OTHER option and successfully chosen
the folder the web client used.

--
Poutnik

[John Wolf]

On 7/12/16 10:20 PM, Poutnik wrote:
> Dne 13/07/2016 v 00:27 John Wolf napsal(a):
>>
>> Wanna bet? I need my SENT MAIL folder to sync with icloud.com and this
>> is not happening in TB. It does however happen in Apple Mail and Mac
>> Outlook 2011.
>>
> Are you able to move/copy to the Sent remote folder
> any email manually from other folders by TB ?
>
> Does Tb provide any error message ?
>
> did you try to use OTHER option ?
> https://postimg.org/image/47rbql0sh/
>

Yes and it did not work.

> What is list of account imap folders ?
> https://postimg.org/image/8lrmtukvd/ ( the 3rd option )
> https://postimg.org/image/9ckczmn8p/
>
>

Not following you.

[John Wolf]

I tried that and it did not work.

[Tanstaafl]

On 7/12/2016 11:47 PM, Poutnik <poutni...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dne 12/07/2016 v 20:25 Tanstaafl napsal(a):

>> Then why did you ask "Why would I create an extra Sent folder?"?

> As I did not. I use those already present.

When you create a new IMAP account, what folders are 'already present'
depends on the server and how it is configured.

GMail creates a number of folders (or more precisely, 'Labels')
automatically.

Dovecot can be configured to create certain folders the first time a
user logs in to a new account, but this doesn't happen by default.

IMAP clients can/will also create folders upon first use of certain
features. Ie, when sending an email for the first time, if the defined
'Sent' folder ('Sent' is the default for TB) is not available, it
creates it. If you prefer to use a pre-existing folder, then you have to
change the folder used by TB before sending an email.

Same goes for Templates, Trash and Drafts. If these folders don't exist
the first time you use that function, TB will create them.

So, *you* may not have created any folders, but TB may have done so for
you, because that is how it - and IMAP - works.

[Poutnik]

Dne 13/07/2016 v 10:01 John Wolf napsal(a):

> On 7/12/16 10:20 PM, Poutnik wrote:
>> Dne 13/07/2016 v 00:27 John Wolf napsal(a):
>>>
>>> Wanna bet? I need my SENT MAIL folder to sync with icloud.com and this
>>> is not happening in TB. It does however happen in Apple Mail and Mac
>>> Outlook 2011.
>>>
>> Are you able to move/copy to the Sent remote folder
>> any email manually from other folders by TB ?
>>
>> Does Tb provide any error message ?
>>
>> did you try to use OTHER option ?
>> https://postimg.org/image/47rbql0sh/
>>
>
> Yes and it did not work.
>
>
>
>> What is list of account imap folders ?
>> https://postimg.org/image/8lrmtukvd/ ( the 3rd option )
>> https://postimg.org/image/9ckczmn8p/
>>
>>
>
> Not following you.
>

Both answers joined do not make much sense to me...

--
Poutnik