Mailing list or newsgoup?

[John Kaufmann]

I joined this list via the TB support page
<https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird>, which is a form
to sign up for a mailing list (or with info for alternative
subscribe-via-email); the only options given were whether to receive the
list via individual emails or daily batch. The confirmation and welcome
emails, accordingly, looked normal for a mailing list. But since then,
every email received from the list seems to also contain a Newsgroup header
(mozilla.support.thunderbird), and if I reply TB prompts with "This account
only supports email recipients. Continuing will ignore newsgroups."

I've been on mailing lists and newsgroups, but don't think I have ever been
on a list that was both (though that seems like a reasonable thing to do).
What is the best way to participate (and avoid the TB error message)?

[WaltS]

What are you using to compose the reply? Reply List is the correct choice.

You could also remove the newsgroup from the reply.

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

The best way is via the newsgroup. Set up an account in your Thunderbird
for news.mozilla.org and subscribe to this, and other, Mozilla support
newsgroups. Ends the bother of weeding through email messages. :-)

--
-bts
-This space for rent, but the price is high

[John Kaufmann]

In message of 2013-1213 11:26 -0500, WaltS wrote:

>> I joined this list via the TB support page
>> <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird>, which is a

>> form to sign up for a mailing list ... The confirmation and welcome

>> emails, accordingly, looked normal for a mailing list. But since then,
>> every email received from the list seems to also contain a Newsgroup
>> header (mozilla.support.thunderbird), and if I reply TB prompts with
>> "This account only supports email recipients. Continuing will ignore

>> newsgroups." ... What is the best way to participate (and avoid the TB

>> error message)?
>>
> What are you using to compose the reply? Reply List is the correct choice.

Thanks, but Reply-List (Ctrl-to-Shft-L) gets that error message (as does
Reply-to-All (Ctrl-Shft-R)).

> You could also remove the newsgroup from the reply.

Yes, I had to do that, but that's clearly not what is intended - hence my
question.

Thanks again.
--
John

[Chris Ilias]

Hi John, I'm the list admin. What you're experiencing is not intended.
Let me test it out a bit to find out what's going on, then I'll get back
to you.

--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator

[Desiree]

Reply List is for a listserve. This is a News group. You use Reply or
Followup.

[WaltS]

But John joined the mailing list at
<https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird> and wants to
know why he has mozilla.support.thunderbird in the reply when he is
replying to the mailing list.

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Desiree wrote:

> Reply List is for a listserve. This is a News group. You use Reply or
> Followup.

This is also a Listserve. And a Google Group. All three methods may be
used to access.

[John Kaufmann]

In message of 2013-1216 20:45 -0500, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

>> Reply List is for a listserve. This is a News group. You use Reply or
>> Followup.
>
> This is also a Listserve. And a Google Group. All three methods may be
> used to access.

Now I _am_ intrigued: What _three_ methods? As I compose this reply (via
Reply-to-List), I see two headers:
To: support-t...@lists.mozilla.org
Newsgroups: mozilla.support.thunderbird [which I will need to remove
when TB complains about it]

What other method is there? Aren't Google Groups listserves (mailing lists)?

IAC, list admin Chris Ilias is looking into this problem, so I expect we
will know soon.
--
John

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

John Kaufmann wrote:

> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> Reply List is for a listserve. This is a News group. You use Reply or
>>> Followup.
>>
>> This is also a Listserve. And a Google Group. All three methods may be
>> used to access.
>
> Now I _am_ intrigued: What _three_ methods? As I compose this reply (via
> Reply-to-List), I see two headers:
> To: support-t...@lists.mozilla.org Newsgroups:
> mozilla.support.thunderbird [which I will need to remove
> when TB complains about it]
>
> What other method is there? Aren't Google Groups listserves (mailing
> lists)?

1. NNTP connection to news.mozilla.org using a Usenet newsreader such as
the Thunderbird you are currently using. In your Account Settings, set up
an account there and subscribe to the groups of choice. This method is the
most efficient of the three.

2. Emailing to the Listserver address you are familiar with, and receiving
replies via email messages.

3. Using Google Groups for mozilla.support.thunderbird (and others). Don't
ask me how to do that; I despise Google Groups. GG is *not* a listserve or
a mailing list.

> IAC, list admin Chris Ilias is looking into this problem, so I expect we
> will know soon.

Chris is not the only knowledgeable person participating in this newsgroup.

[John Kaufmann]

In message of 2013-1217 06:52 -0500, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

>>> Reply List is for a listserve. This is a News group. You use Reply or Followup.
>>>
>>> This is also a Listserve. And a Google Group. All three methods may be
>>> used to access.

First, just to re-clarify: My original post noted both mailing list and
newsgroup headers, which is the first time I have seen that configuration
(though, as I noted then, it makes sense to have access to the same content
via either method). Also, I joined a mailing list via the TB support page
<https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird>, which gives not
indication that the same list content is also available as a newsgroup. So
the original question was how this dual-access arrangement is supposed to
work, especially from the mailing list side, as that is how I joined.

>> Now I _am_ intrigued: What _three_ methods? As I compose this reply (via
>> Reply-to-List), I see two headers:
>> To: support-t...@lists.mozilla.org
>> Newsgroups: mozilla.support.thunderbird [which I will need to remove when TB complains about it]
>>
>> What other method is there? Aren't Google Groups listserves (mailing lists)?
>
> 1. NNTP connection to news.mozilla.org using a Usenet newsreader such as
> the Thunderbird you are currently using. In your Account Settings, set up
> an account there and subscribe to the groups of choice. This method is the
> most efficient of the three.

That I know; I refer again to the original post, summarized above.

> 2. Emailing to the Listserver address you are familiar with, and receiving
> replies via email messages.

Again, ibid.

> 3. Using Google Groups for mozilla.support.thunderbird (and others). Don't
> ask me how to do that; I despise Google Groups. GG is *not* a listserve or
> a mailing list.

AFAICS, it appears that Google Groups use mail, as opposed to news or some
other, protocols.

>> IAC, list admin Chris Ilias is looking into this problem, so I expect we
>> will know soon.
>
> Chris is not the only knowledgeable person participating in this newsgroup.

Of course not; that was not the point. The reference to Chris is that he
said I should not be seeing what I am seeing (presumably meaning that I
should not see both mail and news headers), and that he would find out what
was going on - so he will be back with an explanation and fix.

Thanks for your follow-up.
--
John

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

John Kaufmann wrote:

> Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

>> John Kaufmann wrote:
>>> What other method is there? Aren't Google Groups listserves (mailing
>>> lists)?
>>
>> 1. NNTP connection to news.mozilla.org using a Usenet newsreader such
>> as the Thunderbird you are currently using. In your Account Settings,
>> set up an account there and subscribe to the groups of choice. This
>> method is the most efficient of the three.
>
> That I know; I refer again to the original post, summarized above.

You might want to consider setting up a News account, though. Much better
than the emails.

>> 2. Emailing to the Listserver address you are familiar with, and
>> receiving replies via email messages.
>
> Again, ibid.
>
>> 3. Using Google Groups for mozilla.support.thunderbird (and others).
>> Don't ask me how to do that; I despise Google Groups. GG is *not* a
>> listserve or a mailing list.
>
> AFAICS, it appears that Google Groups use mail, as opposed to news or
> some other, protocols.

No, that's not so. Google Groups doesn't mail you anything. You go to
their web site to read the threads. Strictly HTTP.

[John Kaufmann]

In message of 2013-1213 17:52 -0500, Chris Ilias wrote:

>> I joined this list via the TB support page <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird>, which is a form to sign up for a mailing list ... The confirmation and welcome emails, accordingly, looked normal for a mailing list. But since then, every email received from the list seems to also contain a Newsgroup header (mozilla.support.thunderbird), and if I reply TB prompts with "This account only supports email recipients. Continuing will ignore newsgroups."

>>
>> I've been on mailing lists and newsgroups, but don't think I have ever been on a list that was both (though that seems like a reasonable thing to do). What is the best way to participate (and avoid the TB error message)?
>

> ... What you're experiencing is not intended. Let me test it out a bit to find out what's going on, then I'll get back to you.

I hate to bother you, but can you give an idea of how long that should
take? Because I must remove the newsgroup header to post to the mailing
list via TB, I'm afraid I may affect the threading in this dual-context
(list/news) forum, which in turn affects my posting. If I know it will just
take a couple of days, I will simply hold posts; if longer, then I will
post immediately, but with regret that I may be fouling the works.
--
John

[Chris Ilias]

I tested it on Monday, and it doesn't look like something I can fix as
list admin. I reported it at
<https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=951003>, and have no idea
how long it will take.

[John Kaufmann]

In message of 2013-1218 22:03 -0500, Chris Ilias wrote:

>>>> I joined this list via the TB support page <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-thunderbird>, which is a form to sign up for a mailing list ... confirmation and welcome emails [were] normal for a mailing list. But since then, every email received from the list seems to also contain a Newsgroup header (mozilla.support.thunderbird), and if I reply TB prompts with "This account only supports email recipients. Continuing will ignore newsgroups."

>>>>
>>>> I've been on mailing lists and newsgroups, but don't think I have ever been on a list that was both (though that seems like a reasonable thing to do). What is the best way to participate (and avoid the TB error message)?
>>>
>>> ... What you're experiencing is not intended. Let me test it out a bit to find out what's going on, then I'll get back to you.

>> ...

>
> I tested it on Monday, and it doesn't look like something I can fix as list admin. I reported it at <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=951003>, and have no idea how long it will take.

Thanks, Chris. I looked at the bug report, and am intrigued by the
implication that the additional newsgroup header is a result of messages
from news users being "replayed to list subscribers", because in my
experience, it seems like *every* message has both news and list headers.
[Admittedly that is not an ironclad assertion, because I have not
scrupulously checked messages for which I have no reply interest, but will
do so from now until we get this solved.] So what is the ratio of news to
list users?

Also, I wanted to understand how this dual-format news/list forum operates,
so tried to follow your link to the admin gateway, but can't get in. Is
there any other info on how this is supposed to operate?
--
John

[John Kaufmann]

In message of 2013-1218 22:33 -0500, John Kaufmann wrote:

> ... I looked at the bug report, and am intrigued by the implication that the additional newsgroup header is a result of messages from news users being "replayed to list subscribers", because in my experience, it seems like *every* message has both news and list headers. [Admittedly that is not an ironclad assertion, because I have not scrupulously checked messages for which I have no reply interest, but will do so from now until we get this solved.] So what is the ratio of news to list users?

Chris, please ignore that dumb comment/question. It just occurred to me
that I could check my own posts - which are of course via list, not news -
and they do *not* have the news header. [Had I ever been moved to read my
own posts, I would have noticed that.] So I can infer that:
(a) your diagnosis - that the extra header results from a news message
replayed to the list - is spot on, and
(b) the ratio of news to list users is very high, at least among active
participants.

Now I /really/ want to know how this dual-protocol format is supposed to work.
Thanks.
--
John

[»Q«]

In <news:wo2dnc6RAMhz_C_P...@mozilla.org>,

IMO, this is just a Thunderbird bug; when using a mail account, a
Newsgroups header should just be ignored.