Ignored threads...

[Grant Taylor]

Is there a way to have Thunderbird mark new messages in ignored
(sub)threads as read?

My main goal is to not have unread messages in ignored (sub)threads be
part of the unread message count that shows up for a folder.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

[Keith Nuttle]

On 1/6/2018 11:35 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> Is there a way to have Thunderbird mark new messages in ignored
> (sub)threads as read?
>
> My main goal is to not have unread messages in ignored (sub)threads be
> part of the unread message count that shows up for a folder.
>
>
>

This marks all of the messages in a folder read. I use it all of the
time. Read what I want, click the button and everything else is marked
read. Then on to the next folder.


Mark All Read Button

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/mark-all-read-button/

[Gabor]

On Saturday, 1/6/2018 11:35 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> Is there a way to have Thunderbird mark new messages in ignored
> (sub)threads as read?
>
> My main goal is to not have unread messages in ignored (sub)threads be
> part of the unread message count that shows up for a folder.
>
>
>

IMHO this is a bug in TB and should be fixed. It took me some time to
understand why I was seeing unread messages counted, but nothing to
read. It's a pain to have to view hidden threads, mark all read and
then view normal.

--
Gabor

[Bob Henson]

I reported it five years ago and it remains unfixed. It's unlikely it ever
will be and is the reason I switched back to 40tude Dialog for newsgroup
work - the bug renders Thunderbird unusable for newsgroups, particularly if
you have a lot of folk in your Bozo file.

https://goo.gl/wGaC2z


--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

My people skills are just fine. It's my intolerance of idiots that needs
work.

[Grant Taylor]

On 01/07/2018 09:39 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
> I reported it five years ago and it remains unfixed. It's unlikely it
> ever will be

*sigh*

I was hoping that someone would know of a tweak to work around this.

Sadly, it sounds like that's not the case.

> and is the reason I switched back to 40tude Dialog for newsgroup work

Fair enough.

I've been casually looking at other MUAs / NUAs and haven't found
anything I like more than Thunderbird … yet.

I'm primarily a Linux user, so 40tude Dialog is mostly a non-starter for me.

> the bug renders Thunderbird unusable for newsgroups,

I've not come to that opinion yet. Particularly because I don't have
something else to use.

> particularly if you have a lot of folk in your Bozo file.

Are you referring to message filters? Or is there another feature that
I want to learn about?

[Grant Taylor]

On 01/07/2018 09:39 AM, Bob Henson wrote:

> https://goo.gl/wGaC2z

I get extremely similar behavior (as in I'm not aware of any
differences) with ignore (sub)thread in email in addition to newsgroups.

[Bob Henson]

Grant Taylor wrote:

> On 01/07/2018 09:39 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
>> I reported it five years ago and it remains unfixed. It's unlikely it
>> ever will be
>
> *sigh*
>
> I was hoping that someone would know of a tweak to work around this.
>
> Sadly, it sounds like that's not the case.
>
>> and is the reason I switched back to 40tude Dialog for newsgroup work
>
> Fair enough.
>
> I've been casually looking at other MUAs / NUAs and haven't found
> anything I like more than Thunderbird … yet.
>
> I'm primarily a Linux user, so 40tude Dialog is mostly a non-starter for me.

It will run under Wine, but I didn't find it very satisfactory.

>
>> the bug renders Thunderbird unusable for newsgroups,
>
> I've not come to that opinion yet. Particularly because I don't have
> something else to use.

Thunderbird would be by far the best if they fixed this bug.

>
>> particularly if you have a lot of folk in your Bozo file.
> Are you referring to message filters? Or is there another feature that
> I want to learn about?

Yes, filters. I have many - one of which is of the form

>From > Contains> long list of morons > mark as read and > Ignore subthread.

As stated in the bug, it fails.

You can use "delete" instead of "ignore subthread" to avoid the underlined
mess in the message list but you still get the replies from the twerps daft
enough to reply to the Bozos/Trolls.

Sadly, there no way round it, and to me it's a deal breaker as the number
of trolls continues to rise these days.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Gynaecologist - a man who can redecorate his hallway through the letterbox.

[Bob Henson]

Grant Taylor wrote:

> On 01/07/2018 09:39 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
>> https://goo.gl/wGaC2z
>
> I get extremely similar behavior (as in I'm not aware of any
> differences) with ignore (sub)thread in email in addition to newsgroups.

I imagine that's the case, but I don't group emails into threads (just
reply/action them and/or delete them) so I don't see it often and it
doesn't stop me using Thunderbird for email and RSS feeds - for which it is
still better than Outlook or emClient. If I were using Linux much as you
are, the only usable alternative is Claws mail.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Fanatic - a person who can't change their mind, and won't change the
subject.

[Herb@UK]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see the need for an add-on to
accomplish this simple task, for which the keyboard shortcut Shift+C can
be used.

Herbert Eppel
www.HETranslations.uk

[Keith Nuttle]

I think it is your computer use habits. while I abhor touch screens,
and only use a keyboard for typing characters in to documents, I use the
mouse exclusively for navigating between programs and through the web.

Consequently I have all of the navigation icons in the upper right
corner of my browser (FireFox). In this way I can move through any
website with a slight movement a click of the mouse and the scroll wheel.

Same with Thunderbird. All of the navigation icons are in the upper
right corner. With the icon to mark all open messages read in that
upper corner, I do not have to bounce back and forth between the
keyboard and the mouse.

[Grant Taylor]

On 01/08/2018 02:37 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
> It will run under Wine, but I didn't find it very satisfactory.

*nod*

I tend to like to avoid Wine for heavy use applications, like my email /
news client.

> Thunderbird would be by far the best if they fixed this bug.

Agreed.

> Yes, filters. I have many - one of which is of the form
>
> >From > Contains> long list of morons > mark as read and > Ignore
> subthread.

Do you have multiple filters with one sender per filter? Or do you have
one filter with multiple senders?

> As stated in the bug, it fails.

*nod*

> You can use "delete" instead of "ignore subthread" to avoid the underlined
> mess in the message list but you still get the replies from the twerps
> daft enough to reply to the Bozos/Trolls.

Hum.

I chose to "mark as read" so that I could easily go back and read the
messages if I wanted to. I.e. if one of the replies indicated that
something from Bozo was worth reading.

> Sadly, there no way round it, and to me it's a deal breaker as the number
> of trolls continues to rise these days.

Ya.

I'm finding that it's not so much Bozos as it is subjects that I don't
care about and want to ignore.

[B00ze]

On 2018-01-07 11:39, Bob Henson <rh54...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Gabor wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, 1/6/2018 11:35 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
>>> Is there a way to have Thunderbird mark new messages in ignored
>>> (sub)threads as read?
>>>
>>> My main goal is to not have unread messages in ignored (sub)threads be
>>> part of the unread message count that shows up for a folder.
>>
>> IMHO this is a bug in TB and should be fixed. It took me some time to
>> understand why I was seeing unread messages counted, but nothing to
>> read. It's a pain to have to view hidden threads, mark all read and
>> then view normal.
>
> I reported it five years ago and it remains unfixed. It's unlikely it ever
> will be and is the reason I switched back to 40tude Dialog for newsgroup
> work - the bug renders Thunderbird unusable for newsgroups, particularly if
> you have a lot of folk in your Bozo file.
>
> https://goo.gl/wGaC2z

Thanks, I voted for it.
Regards,

--
! _\|/_ Sylvain / B00...@hotmail.com
! (o o) Member:David-Suzuki-Fdn/EFF/Red+Cross/SPCA/Planetary-Society
oO-( )-Oo Captain, why not just give the Borg a copy of Windows? -Worf

[Dave Royal]

Grant Taylor <gta...@tnetconsulting.net> Wrote in message:
>
> I'm primarily a Linux user ...
>
I use Pan on Linux, and it doesn't do what you want either.
'Ignored' is just a low score, 'watch' being at the other end of
the scale. Ignored, or any other filtered-out posts, remain
unread - which is as it should be IMO. You can opt to see
them.

An 'unread and not filtered-out' post count would be nice, with an
option to have it as well as, or instead of, the unread posts
count.
--
(Remove numerics from my email address)

[Bob Henson]

Grant Taylor wrote:

> On 01/08/2018 02:37 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
>> It will run under Wine, but I didn't find it very satisfactory.
>
> *nod*
>
> I tend to like to avoid Wine for heavy use applications, like my email /
> news client.
>
>> Thunderbird would be by far the best if they fixed this bug.
>
> Agreed.
>
>> Yes, filters. I have many - one of which is of the form
>>
>>>From > Contains> long list of morons > mark as read and > Ignore
>> subthread.
>
> Do you have multiple filters with one sender per filter? Or do you have
> one filter with multiple senders?
>

One filter, multiple senders. There are other filters too - I delete all
crossposts and in some groups everything from Google Groups as that removes
most of the spam without having to have individual entries for the Bozos.
However, it still needs the "ignore subthreads" to work for maximum
benefit.

>> As stated in the bug, it fails.
>
> *nod*
>
>> You can use "delete" instead of "ignore subthread" to avoid the underlined
>> mess in the message list but you still get the replies from the twerps
>> daft enough to reply to the Bozos/Trolls.
>
> Hum.
>
> I chose to "mark as read" so that I could easily go back and read the
> messages if I wanted to. I.e. if one of the replies indicated that
> something from Bozo was worth reading.
>
>> Sadly, there no way round it, and to me it's a deal breaker as the number
>> of trolls continues to rise these days.
>
> Ya.
>
> I'm finding that it's not so much Bozos as it is subjects that I don't
> care about and want to ignore.

That is a nuisance too - but I can live with that as the two (bozos and
daft subjects) go together, so many silly messages get deleted anyway.
Horses for courses, I suppose. Suffice to say we would all be much better
off if the feature worked correctly.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box. - Italian
Proverb.

[Grant Taylor]

On 01/09/2018 02:02 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
> I delete all crossposts

I'm curious why you do that?

I'm also curious how you do that. (I've not looked that close to the
filter options, but I don't recall seeing something that will allow
that.) Do you have a custom field to match on? Do you apply that at
the newsgroup level or the account / server level? I guess if you had a
custom field and checked each newsgroup for the header that did not
contain the newsgroup name.... I'll wait for your answer.

> in some groups everything from Google Groups as that removes most of
> the spam without having to have individual entries for the Bozos.

I've long heard that Google Groups is a source of a LOT of crap on
Usenet. I'm starting to see that myself. - I've not succumb to the
point of filtering GG (yet). I do know that if (when) I do filter GG
that I'll do so in the NUA and not filter on the news servers that I run
for myself.

[Bob Henson]

Grant Taylor wrote:

> On 01/09/2018 02:02 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
>> I delete all crossposts
>
> I'm curious why you do that?

Nearly all crossposted messages are spam/junk.

>
> I'm also curious how you do that. (I've not looked that close to the
> filter options, but I don't recall seeing something that will allow
> that.) Do you have a custom field to match on? Do you apply that at
> the newsgroup level or the account / server level? I guess if you had a
> custom field and checked each newsgroup for the header that did not
> contain the newsgroup name.... I'll wait for your answer.

Nearly. If it doesn't exist make a custom header "Newsgroups" (no speech
marks). then a line saying (again, no speech marks)

If "Newsgroups" "contains" "," then "delete"

Filtering on the comma singles out any line with more than one newsgroup in
it. It would say "ignore subthread" instead of "delete", of course, if it
worked.

>> in some groups everything from Google Groups as that removes most of
>> the spam without having to have individual entries for the Bozos.
>
> I've long heard that Google Groups is a source of a LOT of crap on
> Usenet. I'm starting to see that myself. - I've not succumb to the
> point of filtering GG (yet). I do know that if (when) I do filter GG
> that I'll do so in the NUA and not filter on the news servers that I run
> for myself.

It's not just the crap within the Google Groups messages that is a problem
- the rubbish Google editor screws up the formatting of messages too so the
in long, snipped posts there are umpteen blank lines inserted - a real
pain.

If "MessageID" "contains" Googlegroups.com" then "delete"

For the same reasons I also delete all HTML messages - they aren't allowed
in newsgroups anyway and should be deleted by the newsgroup servers, but
they often aren't.

If "Content-Type" "contains" "text/plain" then "delete"

and

If "Content-type" "contains" "multipart/alternative" then "delete"

Excuse me if you know those already - I included them in case anyone else
was interested. These apply to Thunderbird, of course, other readers may
have different requirements - or may have them built in.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

I thought I was getting more patient with advancing years - turns out I
just don't give a shit.

[Grant Taylor]

On 01/10/2018 02:15 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
> Nearly all crossposted messages are spam/junk.

Ah. You've made a personal judgment call. - To each his / her own.

> Nearly. If it doesn't exist make a custom header "Newsgroups" (no speech
> marks). then a line saying (again, no speech marks)
>
> If "Newsgroups" "contains" "," then "delete"

Intriguing.

I like the logic.

I doubt I'll implement it. But I do like adding things to my toolbox.

> Filtering on the comma singles out any line with more than one newsgroup
> in it. It would say "ignore subthread" instead of "delete", of course,
> if it worked.

*nod*

> It's not just the crap within the Google Groups messages that is a problem
> - the rubbish Google editor screws up the formatting of messages too
> so the in long, snipped posts there are umpteen blank lines inserted -
> a real pain.

Ya. I deal with that on a daily basis.

$DayJob uses Gmail so I deal with lack of pruning and top posting all
the <REDACTED> time. - I choose what windmills to tilt at.

> If "MessageID" "contains" Googlegroups.com" then "delete"

To each his / her own.

> For the same reasons I also delete all HTML messages - they aren't allowed
> in newsgroups anyway and should be deleted by the newsgroup servers,
> but they often aren't.

I don't know that I've heard that HTML is forbidden in newsgroups. I am
fairly certain that the underlying technology will support HTML.

I have heard reference to "text only" as in a reference to "no binary"
(files) / attachments.

> If "Content-Type" "contains" "text/plain" then "delete"

Why delete based on text/plain?

Why not delete on text/html?

> If "Content-type" "contains" "multipart/alternative" then "delete"

I take it that you're taking "multipart/alternative" as an indication
that there is something in addition to text/plain. (Assuming that it is
text/plain.) And thus you want to delete it?

> Excuse me if you know those already - I included them in case anyone
> else was interested. These apply to Thunderbird, of course, other readers
> may have different requirements - or may have them built in.

No need for an excuse.

I always like learning what others do, how they do it, and why they do
it. - I'll then make a better informed decision if I want to follow suit.

Thanks for sharing.

[Bob Henson]

Whoops - my typo.

>
>> If "Content-type" "contains" "multipart/alternative" then "delete"
>
> I take it that you're taking "multipart/alternative" as an indication
> that there is something in addition to text/plain. (Assuming that it is
> text/plain.) And thus you want to delete it?

Some HTML messages have that, but not the text/html tag.

>
>> Excuse me if you know those already - I included them in case anyone
>> else was interested. These apply to Thunderbird, of course, other readers
>> may have different requirements - or may have them built in.
>
> No need for an excuse.
>
> I always like learning what others do, how they do it, and why they do
> it. - I'll then make a better informed decision if I want to follow suit.
>
> Thanks for sharing.


--

Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Celebrity - a person who works hard to become well known, and then wears
dark glasses to avoid being recognised.

[Keith Nuttle]

On 1/10/2018 11:36 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
>> If "Newsgroups" "contains" "," then "delete"
>
> Intriguing.
>
> I like the logic.
>
> I doubt I'll implement it.  But I do like adding things to my toolbox.
>
>> Filtering on the comma singles out any line with more than one
>> newsgroup in it. It would say "ignore subthread" instead of "delete",
>> of course, if it worked.
>
> *nod*

I hope you realize that Delete only removes the message from the TB
installation on your computer and not from the news server or the internet.

Consequently whether you Ignore or Delete, the message will return if
you ever redownload ALL messages from the news server.

This confusion has caused a lot of understanding problems in the past

[Bob Henson]

I never have done, but if I did the messages would go through the same
filters and I *still* wouldn't see them.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Atheist - a person with no invisible means of support.

[Grant Taylor]

On 01/11/2018 01:31 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
> Some HTML messages have that, but not the text/html tag.

I'd be curious to see such a message.

My understanding of the MIME structure makes me think that the
multipart/alternative is for different formats / types of the same
content. Frequently text and HTML. But I suppose that it's entirely
possible that it's text and something else (vendor proprietary?) and not
including text/html.

I'd be curious to see ~> learn.

[Dave Royal]

Grant Taylor <gta...@tnetconsulting.net> Wrote in message:

> On 01/11/2018 01:31 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
>> Some HTML messages have that, but not the text/html tag.
>
> I'd be curious to see such a message.
>
> My understanding of the MIME structure makes me think that the
> multipart/alternative is for different formats / types of the same
> content. Frequently text and HTML. But I suppose that it's entirely
> possible that it's text and something else (vendor proprietary?) and not
> including text/html.
>

Theoretically, yes; but I've never seen such a message. Though
provided one alternative is text/plain I probably wouldn't have
noticed.

It's hard to be sure whether any particular RFC is the latest, but
AFAICS multipart mime messages are defined in RFC1521. NNTP
messages are defined in RFC5536 of which section 2.3 specifies
MIME conformance; this includes internationalisation but does not
mandate RFC1521. At the end of that section it says that other
MIME extensions are optional.

So an NNTP-compliant newsreader may not be able to read html, or
display just the text from a multipart message. But in that case
I think it must display all parts and treat them all as
ASCII.

[Grant Taylor]

On 01/11/2018 04:39 PM, Dave Royal wrote:
> Theoretically, yes; but I've never seen such a message. Though provided
> one alternative is text/plain I probably wouldn't have noticed.

I guess part of what I find odd is that most messages have a
Content-Type containing text/plain. Even Bob's message sharing the
following rule had a Content-Type containing text/plain.

If "Content-Type" "contains" "text/plain" then "delete"

> It's hard to be sure whether any particular RFC is the latest,

I don't think that's entirely accurate.

1) You can find if an RFC has been updated via the RFC index at the RFC
Editor's website.
2) You can go to the IETF and see the data tracker for the RFC / BCP
and it will tell you if there are updates.

It takes a little bit (~45 seconds) of work but it is possible.

> but AFAICS multipart mime messages are defined in RFC1521.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1521 page header

[Docs] [txt|pdf] [draft-ietf-822ext...] [Diff1] [Diff2]

Obsoleted by: 2045, 2046, 2047, 2048, 2049 DRAFT STANDARD
Updated by: 1590

Network Working Group N. Borenstein
Request for Comments: 1521 Bellcore
Obsoletes: 1341 N. Freed
Category: Standards Track Innosoft
September 1993

So we can tell that RFC 1521's most up to date version is 2049.

;-)

> NNTP messages
> are defined in RFC5536 of which section 2.3 specifies MIME conformance;
> this includes internationalisation but does not mandate RFC1521. At the
> end of that section it says that other MIME extensions are optional.

Extensions to the MIME (or almost any) specification add to and very
seldom override / remove. (At least not without good, documented, reason.)

I've not recently read any of those RFCs, so I can't speak authoritatively.

That being said, I think that the content type is assumed to be
text/plain if MIME is used and there is no other content-type declaration.

> So an NNTP-compliant newsreader may not be able to read html, or display
> just the text from a multipart message. But in that case I think it must
> display all parts and treat them all as ASCII.

I find that to be highly questionable. But I can see how someone can
arrive at that logic.

[Dave Royal]

On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 19:51:49 -0700, Grant Taylor wrote:

> On 01/11/2018 04:39 PM, Dave Royal wrote:
>> It's hard to be sure whether any particular RFC is the latest,
>
> I don't think that's entirely accurate.
>
> 1) You can find if an RFC has been updated via the RFC index at the RFC

> <long snip>

I knew all that. I was just covering myself. And it usually takes longer
than 45 seconds to get from a google enquiry like 'nntp multipart/
alternative' to the point where you're sure you're looking at the right
RFC.

>> NNTP messages are defined in RFC5536 of which section 2.3 specifies
>> MIME conformance; this includes internationalisation but does not
>> mandate RFC1521. At the end of that section it says that other MIME
>> extensions are optional.
> Extensions to the MIME (or almost any) specification add to and very
> seldom override / remove. (At least not without good, documented,
> reason.)
>

That is true.

> I've not recently read any of those RFCs, so I can't speak
> authoritatively.
>

I read all the relevant parts last night. I thought the question was
interesting.

> That being said, I think that the content type is assumed to be
> text/plain if MIME is used and there is no other content-type
> declaration.
>

It's assumed to be plain text ascii. This goes back to RFC 850 (1983) and
probably earlier.

>> So an NNTP-compliant newsreader may not be able to read html, or
>> display just the text from a multipart message. But in that case I
>> think it must display all parts and treat them all as ASCII.
>
> I find that to be highly questionable. But I can see how someone can
> arrive at that logic.

That sounds like you think I'm wrong ;)

Some regulars here use html. My Android newsreader sometimes won't
display it. Here in PAN I usually get the text plus raw html code. I
rarely see html only - except in spam. I read what's readable and ignore
the rest.

I don't block html, or googlegroups, because non-regulars use them to get
help.
--
(Remove any numerics from my email address.)

[Bob Henson]

I'm not hugely technical and it was a long time ago that I set up the
filter, but I can recall that some messages were not picked up by the
obvious filter and I had to add the other to make it work every time. I
don't have any such messages at the moment so I can't explain further. I
rarely see any such messages now as most of them are deleted by my other
filters anyway - it was nearly always spam messages from obnoxious kids
that used HTML or rich text and most "serious" newsgroup users knew better.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

No, I haven't got a personality disorder - all three of us are just fine!