Message filters not being run automatically
Edward Diener
accounts. It was run automatically each time message headers were being
downloaded from my IMAP server and worked fine.
Now with TB 3, using Smart Folders, the message filters are not being
run automatically. If I run them manually they work. Does this have
anything to do with Smart Folders placing individual accounts under a
single Inbox folder, or is there some other reason why the message
filters are not automatically being run ?
Kent James
Not directly. Smart Folders does not actually combine the real folders
together, but instead summarizes them. The filters still work as they
did before. You can view the real folders in All Folders mode.
But there are some glitches when you try to define filters in Smart
Folders mode. I recommend that you try any filter editing in All Folders
mode, then test them. Also with TB3 you can separately define whether a
filter runs manually or automatically - but that is rarely the problem
with reports such as yours.
Other than that, I would need a lot more details about what you are
doing and how you are configured to be of help.
rkent
Edward Diener
The filters existed in TB 2 for the various Inboxes of my mail accounts.
I have not changed them when migrating from TB 2 to TB 3. Using Smart
Folder mode the Inboxes of my mail accounts are combined into a global
Inbox folder, which shows all my Inbox messages, and beneath that the
Inboxes for my various mail accounts in their individual inbox message
folders with the mail account name.
Under TB 2 the filters for any given Inbox folder were all marked "Apply
Filter when: Checking Mail or Manually Run", which means, as I
understand it, that when the Inbox is checked for new mail the filter
should be run, as well as when I run it manually.
Under TB 2 this was working for the filters of my various inboxes. Under
TB 3 the filters are not being run automatically when TB 3 checks for
new mail. I have it checking automatically for new mail on startup and
the filters are not being applied. If I manually run the filters for an
Inbox subfolder, then I can see it applying the filters. I do not know
how I can explain what is happening more clearly.
I did turn off the "Enable Global Search and Indexer" as soon as I could
after upgrading to TB 3. Other than that I have changed nothing when
migrating.
The only editing of filters I have done in TB 3 is to add more names to
some of my already existing filters from TB 2. I shudder to think I
would have to recreate all these filters for TB 3 ( I get much pestering
mail from idiotic agencies which I have filtered out largely by e-mail
address ).
Kent James
> The filters existed in TB 2 for the various Inboxes of my mail accounts.
> filters are not being run automatically when TB 3 checks for new mail
There have been sporadic reports of this issue, but insufficient
followup to confirm what is happening.
So let's forget the migration for a second, and look at how it is
configured now.
1) Are you using POP3 or IMAP?
2) Do you use the inbox for the account, or do you have a global inbox
of some sort (not Smart Folder, but what you see under Accounts
Settings/Server Settings/Advanced
3) Can you please describe the filters that are not working (selection
criteria, and action).
4) Can you confirm that, under TB3, the value of "Apply Filters When"
for the filters?
rkent
Edward Diener
> On 3/17/2010 12:32 PM, Edward Diener wrote:
>> The filters existed in TB 2 for the various Inboxes of my mail accounts.
>> I have not changed them when migrating from TB 2 to TB 3.Under TB 3 the
>> filters are not being run automatically when TB 3 checks for new mail
>
> There have been sporadic reports of this issue, but insufficient
> followup to confirm what is happening.
>
> So let's forget the migration for a second, and look at how it is
> configured now.
>
> 1) Are you using POP3 or IMAP?
IMAP
> 2) Do you use the inbox for the account, or do you have a global inbox
> of some sort (not Smart Folder, but what you see under Accounts
> Settings/Server Settings/Advanced
I am not sure what you are referring to under "Accounts
Settings/Server Settings/Advanced" but I never set anything there and
assume I am using just an inbox for the account.
> 3) Can you please describe the filters that are not working (selection
> criteria, and action).
Before I give the information I notice that there are two columns in my
filter list for a mailbox. The first column is the name of the filter
and the second column says 'Enabled'. None of my filters has anything in
this "Enabled' column. Does this column need to be checked to have the
filter working automatically ? If so, how does one enable a filter ?
A typical filter which is not working has a name of 'People'. It has
"Apply filter when: Checking mail or manually run'. It has 'Match any of
the following'. All of its entries are "From contains" some e-mail
string. "Perform these actions:" are "Set Junk Status to Junk" and "Move
message to Junk on AMailbox".
> 4) Can you confirm that, under TB3, the value of "Apply Filters When"
> for the filters?
See above.
Kent James
> None of my filters has anything in this "Enabled' column. Does this
> column need to be checked to have the filter working automatically ? If
> so, how does one enable a filter ?
in the enabled column to enable. If you are not seeing the box, then
that is a different class of problem.
Edward Diener
There is nothing in the Enable column, neither a box or anything else.
Is this the bug which keeps it from working ? I do not recall a similar
column in TB 2. Was there one ? If there was, clearly my filters were
enabled since they were working properly in TB 2 so why would they have
been turned off when I upgraded to TB 3 ?
Larry Sheldon
Just checking:
When I select Tools->Messages Filters I get a box that says "Message
Filters" at the top and in the main pane "Filter Name" and "Enabled".
Under that, if there is a filter for this level, it will have a name
under "Filter Name and a box to be checked under "Enable".
If you highlight a name and click on "Edit" you get a new box for
constructing the actual regexp-like filter argument and disposition stuff.
The main gotcha here is that across the top are radio buttons (I think
that is the right name) for "Match all of the following" (which must
have a use to somebody, but I have never been able to think of what that
might be)(it is now the default, I don't think it used to be but I can
never remember to check it on the machine down-stairs which still has a
functional TB on it). Next to it is "Match any of the the following"
(which is what I use everywhere) and "Match all messages" -- I can't
even figure out what that might mean, much less what it use might be.
There is another issue in the current level that I've not figured out
and nobody wants to talk about where filters that used to work stop
working inexplicably.
As near as I can figure out I am blowing a table up with too many, too
long, or too many too long filter strings.
The behavior I see is consistent with that, but I don't get any errors
or anything else--just a lot of spam, (silently) failed forwards and so
forth.
--
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Edward Diener
> On 3/17/2010 19:14, Edward Diener wrote:
>> On 3/17/2010 7:42 PM, Kent James wrote:
>>> On 3/17/2010 4:27 PM, Edward Diener wrote:
>>>> None of my filters has anything in this "Enabled' column. Does this
>>>> column need to be checked to have the filter working automatically ? If
>>>> so, how does one enable a filter ?
>>> Uh, yes they need to be enabled. You should just be able to click a box
>>> in the enabled column to enable. If you are not seeing the box, then
>>> that is a different class of problem.
>>
>> There is nothing in the Enable column, neither a box or anything else.
>> Is this the bug which keeps it from working ? I do not recall a similar
>> column in TB 2. Was there one ? If there was, clearly my filters were
>> enabled since they were working properly in TB 2 so why would they have
>> been turned off when I upgraded to TB 3 ?
>
> Just checking:
>
> When I select Tools->Messages Filters I get a box that says "Message
> Filters" at the top and in the main pane "Filter Name" and "Enabled".
>
> Under that, if there is a filter for this level, it will have a name
> under "Filter Name and a box to be checked under "Enable".
There is no box to be checked under Enable for me. It is a completely
blank area. I am running TB 3.03 under Windows Vista Ultimate x64.
>
> If you highlight a name and click on "Edit" you get a new box for
> constructing the actual regexp-like filter argument and disposition stuff.
>
> The main gotcha here is that across the top are radio buttons (I think
> that is the right name) for "Match all of the following" (which must
> have a use to somebody, but I have never been able to think of what that
> might be)(it is now the default, I don't think it used to be but I can
> never remember to check it on the machine down-stairs which still has a
> functional TB on it). Next to it is "Match any of the the following"
> (which is what I use everywhere) and "Match all messages" -- I can't
> even figure out what that might mean, much less what it use might be.
I see the same things but what has this to do with "enabling" filters ?
>
> There is another issue in the current level that I've not figured out
> and nobody wants to talk about where filters that used to work stop
> working inexplicably.
>
> As near as I can figure out I am blowing a table up with too many, too
> long, or too many too long filter strings.
>
> The behavior I see is consistent with that, but I don't get any errors
> or anything else--just a lot of spam, (silently) failed forwards and so
> forth.
I can not follow what you are talking about in these last 3 paragraphs.
Are you saying that you are seeing the exact same problem in my OP ?
Kent James
> There is no box to be checked under Enable for me. It is a completely
> blank area. I am running TB 3.03 under Windows Vista Ultimate x64.
The most common issue here is that the window is too small. Try grabbing
the filter editor window and making it larger.
Not sure why this happens, but we have had a number of reports of it.
rkent
Larry Sheldon
>> Under that, if there is a filter for this level, it will have a name
>> under "Filter Name and a box to be checked under "Enable".
>
> There is no box to be checked under Enable for me. It is a completely
> blank area. I am running TB 3.03 under Windows Vista Ultimate x64.
As you suspect, something is borken--I know not what.
Do you have an "add-ons"? Does turning them off change anything?
With that I am in over my head.
>> The main gotcha here is that across the top are radio buttons (I think
>> that is the right name) for "Match all of the following" (which must
>> have a use to somebody, but I have never been able to think of what that
>> might be)(it is now the default, I don't think it used to be but I can
>> never remember to check it on the machine down-stairs which still has a
>> functional TB on it). Next to it is "Match any of the the following"
>> (which is what I use everywhere) and "Match all messages" -- I can't
>> even figure out what that might mean, much less what it use might be.
>
> I see the same things but what has this to do with "enabling" filters ?
Nothin'. Except if it is "enabled", and you have he "Match all"
thingus selected and have two "contains" clauses that can not occur in a
single message it will look a lot like the filter didn't run.
>> There is another issue in the current level that I've not figured out
>> and nobody wants to talk about where filters that used to work stop
>> working inexplicably.
>>
>> As near as I can figure out I am blowing a table up with too many, too
>> long, or too many too long filter strings.
>>
>> The behavior I see is consistent with that, but I don't get any errors
>> or anything else--just a lot of spam, (silently) failed forwards and so
>> forth.
>
> I can not follow what you are talking about in these last 3 paragraphs.
> Are you saying that you are seeing the exact same problem in my OP ?
No.
It just is the filter failure I am rasslin with (after I figured out the
"all" thing.
Your problem, I think, is in the "enable" box behaviour.
Mine appears to be if I get too many filters or too many "contains"
clauses, or the arguments are too long, or something, some or all of
them stop working. Sometimes. It seems to start working when I delete
a bunch of stuff. Or change the way I hold my tongue. Or something.
Edward Diener
> On 3/17/2010 7:15 PM, Edward Diener wrote:
>> There is no box to be checked under Enable for me. It is a completely
>> blank area. I am running TB 3.03 under Windows Vista Ultimate x64.
>
> The most common issue here is that the window is too small. Try grabbing
> the filter editor window and making it larger.
It is the theme I am using. I am using Walnut for Thunderbird and the
check box does not show in that theme no matter how wide I make the
window. When I switched back to the Default theme I could see the
checkbox, but I have to expand the window to the very end of my open TB
main window just to get the checkbox to appear. To say the least, this
is very poor.
>
> Not sure why this happens, but we have had a number of reports of it.
Well this is another.
However the filters that have not been working when I read my mail were
all checked, once I could finally see the checkbox using the Default
theme. So I still do not know what is happening, unless switching back
to the Default theme from the Walnut theme will magically fix this
problem.
Larry Sheldon
Dang. He may be onto something! I tried to change the pane by grabbing
its edge, but I went back and tried the edge of the whole box, and made
the little boxes disappear!
Why would they do that? The title stays, but the boxes disappear.
Seriously strange.
Kent James
> Why would they do that? The title stays, but the boxes disappear.
>
> Seriously strange.
It is seriously wonky, I agree. I've never tried to fix it because it is
outside of my expertise (which is more the C++ backend then the frontend
stuff). What I have noticed myself, is if you shrink the window, close
the editor, then open it again, then the size will be back to normal
with everything positioned correctly according to the new size.
Kent James
Kent James
> So I still do not know what is happening, unless switching back to the
> Default theme from the Walnut theme will magically fix this problem.
Not likely. So looking back to the thread, you are on IMAP using From
Contains filters. Another question: is this the IMAP inbox that is
receiving the messages, or are the messages placed there by some filter
operation on the server?
If the answer is "this is not the inbox" then there is a solution which
we can discuss.
If the answer is "this is the inbox", then ideally what I am going to
ask from you is if you could get a copy of the raw message (forwarding
it to me as an attachment would work) that is not matching, and also a
copy of the file "msgFilterRules.dat" that would exist for the account
in question. If that is too much perhaps I could get information to
investigate further by asking questions. Ideally, you could generate a
message yourself that has non-private content that demonstrates the
issue, so you don't mind sharing that message with me.
I should point out that the code that does the manual filter is
completely different code than the code that does the incoming filter,
so it is possible for an issue to exist in one place but not the other.
Still, it is possible that there is something completely obvious (such
as your earlier "enabled" issue) that I am missing, since I am more
involved with the intimate details, and sometimes I can miss the obvious.
Kent
Edward Diener
> On 3/17/2010 7:47 PM, Edward Diener wrote:
>> So I still do not know what is happening, unless switching back to the
>> Default theme from the Walnut theme will magically fix this problem.
>
> Not likely.
You are correct. Switching to the Default theme does not fix the problem.
> So looking back to the thread, you are on IMAP using From
> Contains filters. Another question: is this the IMAP inbox that is
> receiving the messages, or are the messages placed there by some filter
> operation on the server?
The server does have some automatic spam filtering but it does not place
any messages into the IMAP inbox based on that.
>
> If the answer is "this is not the inbox" then there is a solution which
> we can discuss.
>
> If the answer is "this is the inbox", then ideally what I am going to
> ask from you is if you could get a copy of the raw message (forwarding
> it to me as an attachment would work) that is not matching, and also a
> copy of the file "msgFilterRules.dat" that would exist for the account
> in question.
I can do that if you tell me both how I get a copy of the raw message
and where the "msgFilterRules.dat" is for a given mailbox.
> If that is too much perhaps I could get information to
> investigate further by asking questions. Ideally, you could generate a
> message yourself that has non-private content that demonstrates the
> issue, so you don't mind sharing that message with me.
>
> I should point out that the code that does the manual filter is
> completely different code than the code that does the incoming filter,
> so it is possible for an issue to exist in one place but not the other.
As a programmer myself I have to ask, out of curiosity, why the above
would be so. I can understand that certain logic prior to doing the
actual filtering would be different, because the incoming filter code is
probably doing quite a bit before actual filtering the messages, but it
is hard to understand why the actual filtering itself would be written
as separate different pieces of code.
>
> Still, it is possible that there is something completely obvious (such
> as your earlier "enabled" issue) that I am missing, since I am more
> involved with the intimate details, and sometimes I can miss the obvious.
I will do my best to get you the information which you want. I will pick
out a message I know I get every day, which I filter, and get that to
you along with the appropriate "msgFilterRules.dat". Then maybe you, or
somebody at Mozilla, can discover what is wrong with running automatic
filters in TB 3.
Kent James
>> what I am going to
>> ask from you is if you could get a copy of the raw message (forwarding
>> it to me as an attachment would work) that is not matching, and also a
>> copy of the file "msgFilterRules.dat" that would exist for the account
>> in question.
>
> I can do that if you tell me both how I get a copy of the raw message
> and where the "msgFilterRules.dat" is for a given mailbox.
You should just be able to forward a copy of the filter to me as an
attachment (Message/Forward As/Attachment) or to see it yourself, use
View/Message Source. The file "msgFilterRules.dat" is located in
Thunderbird's profile area for the account. You can see where that is by
going to Tools/Account Settings.../(pick your account)/Server
Settings/Local Directory. For one of my accounts, it is:
C:\Documents and Settings\kent\Application
Data\Thunderbird\Profiles\1kqzgv3q.default\ImapMail\mail.mesquilla.com
>> I should point out that the code that does the manual filter is
>> completely different code than the code that does the incoming filter,
>> so it is possible for an issue to exist in one place but not the other.
>
> As a programmer myself I have to ask, out of curiosity, why the above
> would be so.
That decision was before my time, probably in the mad days of Netscape.
When I added the "custom filter actions" option, I consolidated the work
so that a single custom action code can work in all the places, so it is
clearly possible to defork this somehow if someone was interested. But
there has to be some motivation to do the work, which there is not at
the moment.
> I will pick
> out a message I know I get every day, which I filter, and get that to
> you along with the appropriate "msgFilterRules.dat". Then maybe you, or
> somebody at Mozilla, can discover what is wrong with running automatic
> filters in TB 3.
Thanks.
Edward Diener
> On 3/18/2010 6:37 AM, Edward Diener wrote:
>>> what I am going to
>>> ask from you is if you could get a copy of the raw message (forwarding
>>> it to me as an attachment would work) that is not matching, and also a
>>> copy of the file "msgFilterRules.dat" that would exist for the account
>>> in question.
>>
>> I can do that if you tell me both how I get a copy of the raw message
>> and where the "msgFilterRules.dat" is for a given mailbox.
>
> You should just be able to forward a copy of the filter to me as an
> attachment (Message/Forward As/Attachment) or to see it yourself, use
> View/Message Source. The file "msgFilterRules.dat" is located in
> Thunderbird's profile area for the account. You can see where that is by
> going to Tools/Account Settings.../(pick your account)/Server
> Settings/Local Directory. For one of my accounts, it is:
> C:\Documents and Settings\kent\Application
> Data\Thunderbird\Profiles\1kqzgv3q.default\ImapMail\mail.mesquilla.com
I can find the correct "msgFilterRules.dat" to send to you as an
attachment. How do I send a message I receive, which the filter is
supposed to process automatically, as an attachment ?
randa....@gmail.com
Swifty
> I have always applied the filters to "All Folders"
pharmaceutical spam). In the past, I'd applied my filters to "All
Folders" but I soon discovered that this no longer works with the level
of Thunderbird that I now have.
As a bypass, I moved my filters to specific news servers. I have only
two of these, so not too much extra effort.