Thunderbird Bug (5 of 6): Thread collapse/expand controls missing.

[Robbie Hatley]

Symptom:
Thunderbird currently has no controls to collapse/expand threads.
Yes, it has a control to switch between "threaded" and "not threaded",
but that is not what I'm talking about, so don't bait-n-switch on me.
I'm talking about ability to collapse threads to thread title only,
or expand threads to show all post headers. TB needs these 2
controls:
1. Expand threads.
2. Collapse threads.

Workaround:
None that I know of. Apparently we just have to live with this
idiocy unless/until it's fixed.

--
Cheers,
Robbie Hatley
Stanton, CA, USA
lonewolf (at) well (dot) com
http://www.well.com/user/lonewolf/

[David E. Ross]

On 9/4/10 4:47 PM, Robbie Hatley wrote:
>
> Symptom:
> Thunderbird currently has no controls to collapse/expand threads.
> Yes, it has a control to switch between "threaded" and "not threaded",
> but that is not what I'm talking about, so don't bait-n-switch on me.
> I'm talking about ability to collapse threads to thread title only,
> or expand threads to show all post headers. TB needs these 2
> controls:
> 1. Expand threads.
> 2. Collapse threads.
>
> Workaround:
> None that I know of. Apparently we just have to live with this
> idiocy unless/until it's fixed.
>

With newsgroups, the \ key collapses all threads in the current
newsgroup; and * expands all threads. Does this not work with E-mail?

--

David E. Ross
<http://www.rossde.com/>.

Anyone who thinks government owns a monopoly on inefficient, obstructive
bureaucracy has obviously never worked for a large corporation.
© 1997 by David E. Ross

[Robbie Hatley]

On 2010-09-04 5:01 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

> On 9/4/10 4:47 PM, Robbie Hatley wrote:
>>
>> Symptom:
>> Thunderbird currently has no controls to collapse/expand threads.
>> Yes, it has a control to switch between "threaded" and "not threaded",
>> but that is not what I'm talking about, so don't bait-n-switch on me.
>> I'm talking about ability to collapse threads to thread title only,
>> or expand threads to show all post headers. TB needs these 2
>> controls:
>> 1. Expand threads.
>> 2. Collapse threads.
>>
>> Workaround:
>> None that I know of. Apparently we just have to live with this
>> idiocy unless/until it's fixed.
>>
>
> With newsgroups, the \ key collapses all threads in the current
> newsgroup; and * expands all threads. Does this not work with E-mail?

<sarcasm>Ah, backslash means "collapse all threads" and asterisk means
"expand all threads". That's so intuitively obvious I don't know
why I didn't think of it. Sort of like why there's no "Next" or
"Previous" buttons anywhere in TB: the 'f' key means "next",
and the 'b' key means "previous". So obvious.</sarcasm>

But I do see / and * are also in the menu under "View/Threads",
and they do work on both emails and Usenet posts (I checked both).
Looks like I missed those, which is a little embarrassing.
But only a little. They should really be part of the "mail" toolbar
(which also is the toolbar used for the "newsgroup post header list"
context).

Or perhaps have "Collapse" and "Expand" available as part of a
"more buttons" add-on, provided that the add-on really does work.
(The buttons add-ons I've tried so far mostly don't work.)

Or, better yet, make Expand and Collapse a part of toggling the
"Threads" icon at the top of the "Threads" column. Instead of
toggling between these two states:

1. Unthreaded
2. Threaded, with all threads expanded

that icon should really troggle between these *three* states:

1. Unthreaded
2. Threaded, with all threads collapsed
3. Threaded, with all threads expanded

Anyway, thanks for calling * and \ to my attention.

(PS: is the person who came up with this crap an afficionado
of VI, by any chance? Just curious.)

[David E. Ross]

On 9/4/10 8:12 PM, Robbie Hatley wrote [in part]:

>
> On 2010-09-04 5:01 PM, I previously wrote:
>
>>
>> With newsgroups, the \ key collapses all threads in the current
>> newsgroup; and * expands all threads. Does this not work with E-mail?
>
> <sarcasm>Ah, backslash means "collapse all threads" and asterisk means
> "expand all threads". That's so intuitively obvious I don't know
> why I didn't think of it. Sort of like why there's no "Next" or
> "Previous" buttons anywhere in TB: the 'f' key means "next",
> and the 'b' key means "previous". So obvious.</sarcasm>

There are indeed Next and Previous buttons. Place your cursor anyplace
on the Thunderbird toolbar. Right-click and select Customize from the
pull-down menu. Drag the Previous button from the Customize Toolbar
window to the Thunderbird toolbar. Then drag the Next button from the
Customize Toolbar window to the Thunderbird toolbar.

And if you had bothered to go to the Thunderbird menu bar and selected
[View > Threads], you would have seen the \ and * described in the
pull-down submenu.

Alternatively, you could have asked POLITELY here (in this newsgroup)
about customizing your toolbar and about expanding and collapsing threads.

[Irné]

On 2010-09-05 5:12:07, Robbie Hatley wrote:

On 2010-09-04 5:01 PM, David E. Ross wrote:

On 9/4/10 4:47 PM, Robbie Hatley wrote:

 Symptom:
 Thunderbird currently has no controls to collapse/expand threads.
 Yes, it has a control to switch between "threaded" and "not threaded",
 but that is not what I'm talking about, so don't bait-n-switch on me.
 I'm talking about ability to collapse threads to thread title only,
 or expand threads to show all post headers.  TB needs these 2
 controls:
 1. Expand threads.
 2. Collapse threads.

 Workaround:
 None that I know of.  Apparently we just have to live with this
 idiocy unless/until it's fixed.

With newsgroups, the \ key collapses all threads in the current
newsgroup; and * expands all threads.  Does this not work with E-mail?

<sarcasm>Ah, backslash means "collapse all threads" and asterisk means
"expand all threads".  That's so intuitively obvious I don't know
why I didn't think of it.  Sort of like why there's no "Next" or
"Previous" buttons anywhere in TB: the 'f' key means "next",
and the 'b' key means "previous".  So obvious.</sarcasm>

No, they're the keyboard shortcuts. Who'd have guessed Ctrl+V would give you Paste? Where's the V in the word paste? Now Ctrl+C for copy I can halfway understand. But, I can also understand why Ctrl+P was not used for paste, it's already used for Print. Ctrl+A for select All. Ctrl+S for Save ... but why not Ctrl+T or E? Is there some other clash?

Or, maybe, just maybe the decision was: Seeing as we can't use some of these letters since they're already used, we need to look at something which works nicely. What about those around the C for copy? Ah Ctrl+X for cut, Ctrl+V for paste ... and the X has a connotation of removing (thus differentiating it from copy). Also the V looks a bit lik a down pointing arrow, so it can be assumed to mean "Place here".

A similar thing works for the / *. The * has been connected with "all" as it's used extensively as a text search code meaning match everything. I'm not sure how this works on other keyboards, but on mine the * and / keys are directly next to each other on the numpad. So maybe there was a similar thought process behind it?

I'm not trying to make you sound bad, I'm just explaining the reasoning behind these shortcut keys.

But I do see / and * are also in the menu under "View/Threads",
and they do work on both emails and Usenet posts (I checked both).

Exactly, that means they're keyboard shortcuts. And once you've used the 2 level menu, you have seen the shortcut, whether you've looked at it or even taken it in is up for grabs. Every time you use the menu, that shows again ... maybe a subliminal message to connect * with expand and / with collapse would cause you to somewhere in the future use the keyboard shortcuts?

Looks like I missed those, which is a little embarrassing.
But only a little.  They should really be part of the "mail" toolbar
(which also is the toolbar used for the "newsgroup post header list"
context).

Or perhaps have "Collapse" and "Expand" available as part of a
"more buttons" add-on, provided that the add-on really does work.
(The buttons add-ons I've tried so far mostly don't work.)

Or, better yet, make Expand and Collapse a part of toggling the
"Threads" icon at the top of the "Threads" column.  Instead of
toggling between these two states:

1. Unthreaded
2. Threaded, with all threads expanded

that icon should really troggle between these *three* states:

1. Unthreaded
2. Threaded, with all threads collapsed
3. Threaded, with all threads expanded

Anyway, thanks for calling * and \ to my attention.

(PS: is the person who came up with this crap an afficionado
of VI, by any chance?  Just curious.)

Yes, I'd also vote for such a bug report. Sounds nice. I can see though that it starts getting to a situation of "Where does it end?" You may want the collapse and expand all, or even collapse and expand selected only. Another may want import and export. Yet someone else may want the tagging to be buttons. Etc. etc. So to cater for all! Exactly how many buttons on the toolbar is enough, and how many would make the user feel lost in a maze of buttons?

What I'd actually like to see is having any function available as a button, so the right-click --> customize on the toolbar allows the user to place whatever they want over there. If they want so many buttons as to become unusable, then it's their decision to do so.

-- 
Regards, Irné Barnard

[Pete Holsberg]

Robbie Hatley has written on 9/4/2010 11:12 PM:
> <snip>

> <sarcasm>Ah, backslash means "collapse all threads" and asterisk means
> "expand all threads". That's so intuitively obvious I don't know
> why I didn't think of it.

Not sure why you think that everything should be intuitively obvious!
Even cars have owners manuals.

--
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ

Advice for the day: If you have a lot of tension and you
get a headache, do what it says on the aspirin bottle:
"Take two aspirin" and "Keep away from children."
--Author Unknown

[Pete Holsberg]

David E. Ross has written on 9/4/2010 8:01 PM:

> On 9/4/10 4:47 PM, Robbie Hatley wrote:
> >
> > Symptom:
> > Thunderbird currently has no controls to collapse/expand threads.
> > Yes, it has a control to switch between "threaded" and "not threaded",
> > but that is not what I'm talking about, so don't bait-n-switch on me.
> > I'm talking about ability to collapse threads to thread title only,
> > or expand threads to show all post headers. TB needs these 2
> > controls:
> > 1. Expand threads.
> > 2. Collapse threads.
> >
> > Workaround:
> > None that I know of. Apparently we just have to live with this
> > idiocy unless/until it's fixed.
> >
>
> With newsgroups, the \ key collapses all threads in the current
> newsgroup; and * expands all threads. Does this not work with E-mail?

Yes, it does. (2.0.0.24)

--
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ

Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish...
-- Euripides

[Miles]

* Robbie Hatley wrote, On 04-Sep-10 16:47:

>
> Symptom:
> Thunderbird currently has no controls to collapse/expand threads.
> Yes, it has a control to switch between "threaded" and "not threaded",
> but that is not what I'm talking about, so don't bait-n-switch on me.
> I'm talking about ability to collapse threads to thread title only,
> or expand threads to show all post headers. TB needs these 2
> controls:
> 1. Expand threads.
> 2. Collapse threads.
>
> Workaround:
> None that I know of. Apparently we just have to live with this
> idiocy unless/until it's fixed.
>

You've received an answer to your question. Recommend you copy this
to a text program, abbreviate the line spacing (and delete
inapplicable columns, then print this page and keep it handy while
you're learning keyboard shortcuts. Believe everything on this page
relates to TB3.

http://support.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/kb/Keyboard+shortcuts

And this page is interesting, although much is missing such as the
shortcuts for Trash (J) -- as I recall this folder was called "junk"
in a prior life. And CNTRL/J to bypass the Trash folder and simply
delete the msg, and Shift/J to return a msg out of the Junk/Trash folder.

http://www.mozilla.org/docs/end-user/moz_shortcuts.html#mail

Miles