Reoccurring problem with Eternal-September newsfeed

[John Corliss]

I'm using XP SP3 (MCE) and Thunderbird 31.7.0 (latest version as I type
this.) When I'm using my Eternal-September usenet account to view
messages in the alt.comp.freeware newsgroup, without any rhyme or reason
it stops opening messages I want to read and I get the following error
message:

"The connection timed out when attempting to contact news.
eternal-september.org."

I've asked if anybody else in ACF is having this problem and a few have
responded that they also have been seeing this. With one exception (he
is using Outlook Express 6 and claims the problem was due to his
provider) everybody who responded is also using the same version of
Thunderbird as I am.

Does anybody have any ideas about what might be causing this?

TIA
--
John Corliss

[Delrio]

Normal, every once in a while the news.eternal-september starts acting
up like slowdown or no connection but cure itself after a while. One
just has to be patient. :-)
Was acting up last couple of days but seems to be ok now.

[Mike Easter]

Historically, I believe the problem has been caused by a 'perception'
issue between the client and the server in which the server e-s
misinterprets how many connections the client Tb is trying to have open
because of some discrepancy between the way Tb releases a connection and
how the server e-s expects to have a connection released.

The result of the miscommunication is that the server e-s thinks the
client Tb has too many connections already open, so it refuses to serve
up the next message.

If everything were actually happening the way the server and client
would like, e-s requires that

"The number of concurrent connections to the server is limited to 4"

.... and default Tb complies with:

mail.server.server2.max_cached_connections;2

.... since Tb refers to e-s news server as a mail.server.

I believe the mysterious miscommunication problem can usually be avoided
by configuring all news server accounts to uncheck 2 settings in the
account settings:

check for new messages at startup
check for new messages every xx minutes.

The e-s admin Ray Banana in the e-s support group has stated that Tb has
some kind of problem with releasing its connections; maybe it is
something about the way Tb caches, I don't know. I just know that I
don't have a problem and I uncheck the 2 checking for new messages which
doesn't actually apply to the Tb news server relationship anyway.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

John Corliss wrote:
> "The connection timed out when attempting to contact news.
> eternal-september.org."

Besides the other long-winded answer, it can occur that the e-s server
is not connecting in a timely manner.

My favorite tool for checking that condition is a free, tiny, no-install
Win (or Linux in wine) tool by Steve Gibson called IDServe.

Initiating server query ...
Looking up IP address for domain: news.eternal-september.org
The IP address for the domain is: 213.239.209.88
Connecting to the server on remote port: 119
[Connected] The server greeted our connection with this message:
200 mx02.eternal-september.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.0 (rc1
version) ready (posting ok)
Query complete.

IDServe lets me know that my system has determined the server's address
from its name and connected to the server on that non-SSL port and that
the server has answered (and is ready for the authentication process).

If I want to test for authentication, I use a telnet-type client; if I
want to test for SSL-type authentication on an SSL port, I use an
ssl-type telnet.



--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:

> John Corliss wrote:

>> "The connection timed out when attempting to contact news.
>> eternal-september.org."

> I believe the mysterious miscommunication problem can usually be avoided
> by configuring all news server accounts to uncheck 2 settings in the
> account settings:
>
> check for new messages at startup
> check for new messages every xx minutes.
>

I also recommend not using SSL, just port 119.


--
Mike Easter

[Rod]

I don't use TB for news. I use 40tude Dialog on port 119, and I never see
any problems using ES. My client doesn't support SSL very well, so I don't
use it, and don't feel a need for it on usenet.

[John Corliss]

Thanks very much for replying, Mike, and for all the information. I've
asked about this problem before and nobody has ever been able to provide
the information you just did. I really appreciate it!

Strangely though I've never had those two options checkmarked and have
always used port 119 without SSL, yet the problem is still occurring.

--
John Corliss

[John Corliss]

Mike Easter wrote:
> John Corliss wrote:
>> "The connection timed out when attempting to contact news.
>> eternal-september.org."
>
> Besides the other long-winded answer, it can occur that the e-s server
> is not connecting in a timely manner.
>
> My favorite tool for checking that condition is a free, tiny, no-install
> Win (or Linux in wine) tool by Steve Gibson called IDServe.

Thanks, Mike. I've just downloaded that tool and will give it a try.

> Initiating server query ...
> Looking up IP address for domain: news.eternal-september.org
> The IP address for the domain is: 213.239.209.88
> Connecting to the server on remote port: 119
> [Connected] The server greeted our connection with this message:
> 200 mx02.eternal-september.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.0 (rc1
> version) ready (posting ok)
> Query complete.
>
> IDServe lets me know that my system has determined the server's address
> from its name and connected to the server on that non-SSL port and that
> the server has answered (and is ready for the authentication process).
>
> If I want to test for authentication, I use a telnet-type client; if I
> want to test for SSL-type authentication on an SSL port, I use an
> ssl-type telnet.


--

John Corliss

[John Corliss]

Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP] wrote:

> Is it using SSL to talk? I just checked the TB main download site and
> 38.0.1 is available. Tons of fixes so maybe give it a shot.

Yes, thanks for reminding me. I had earlier today noticed that an update
had been made available, but when I checked in Thunderbird, it told me I
was still up to date. I'll check again and do the update. You're right,
maybe they fixed the problem (fingers crossed.)

--
John Corliss

[John Corliss]

I've seen this before too, but I don't think that's the problem. If I
close Thunderbird and then restart it, I can get the messages again
until the error occurs again.

--
John Corliss

[Mike Easter]

John Corliss wrote:

> Mike Easter wrote:

>> I also recommend not using SSL, just port 119.
>
> Thanks very much for replying, Mike, and for all the information. I've
> asked about this problem before and nobody has ever been able to provide
> the information you just did. I really appreciate it!
>
> Strangely though I've never had those two options checkmarked and have
> always used port 119 without SSL, yet the problem is still occurring.

In the past, when I used only free news servers, I always had a primary
free server, a #1 backup free server, and a #2 backup free server.

Any time I had a 'problem' with a free server, depending on my mood, I
would either do some investigation, like IDServe or telnet or even use a
different client checking the same server, or else I would just go to my
#1 or #2 backup server, which of course has the disadvantage of not
having the desired flags for read/unread set.

I started using news.individual.net NIN as one of my free server choices
when it was still free (cis.dfn.de) before it went to pay 10 y. ago for
10 euros/y. It had risen to the top of my list of free servers, and
somewhere along the way I decided to start paying, and I've never looked
back.

I still think e-s is a well-admin/ed server, but NIN is better. If I
were trying to go free only, I would include albasani and mixmin in my
evaluation lineup.


--
Mike Easter

[John Corliss]

LOL. Thanks, but I think I'll have to do a pass on mixmin. 80)>

--
John Corliss

[John Corliss]

Thee Chicago Wolf (MVP) wrote:

> Report back if it did so we can pass this info along to anyone else in
> your shoes.

The problem has occurred once since the update to ver. 38.0.1.

--
John Corliss

[John Corliss]

It just happened again in spades. At this point, I would have to say
that the update had no affect on the problem with Eternal-September.

--
John Corliss

[Mike Easter]

John Corliss wrote:
> It just happened again in spades.

Are you lumping all alerts/problems or specifically the one in the OP?

> "The connection timed out when attempting to contact news.
> eternal-september.org."

If that is the specific problem, is e-s accessible to IDServe at that
moment?

https://www.grc.com/id/idserve.htm "ID Serve", a simple, free, small
(26 kbytes), and fast, general purpose Internet server identification
utility.

In this case, you would put news.eternal-september.org:119 into its
field, because if you don't use the :119, its default mode is 80.

e-s answers very quickly for me at this moment.

That message indicates that e-s didn't answer/connect with Tb, not a
failure to authenticate.

--
Mike Easter

[John Corliss]

Thee Chicago Wolf [MVP] wrote:

> Ok, so it's looking more and more like it's ES sine 38.0.1 has fairly
> up to date SSL stuff.
>
> Since you're on XP SP3, have you applied the POS2009 hack to keep
> getting security updates (http://goo.gl/AIglLM)? Amongst one of these
> updates is an update to TCP/IP which *might* help. Or not. It can't
> hurt to try.

Thanks, but actually it might hurt:

"...we received a statement from a Microsoft spokesperson:

We recently became aware of a hack that purportedly aims to provide
security updates to Windows XP customers. The security updates that
could be installed are intended for Windows Embedded and Windows Server
2003 customers and do not fully protect Windows XP customers. *Windows
XP customers also run a significant risk of functionality issues with
their machines if they install these updates, as they are not tested
against Windows XP*. The best way for Windows XP customers to protect
their systems is to upgrade to a more modern operating system, like
Windows 7 or Windows 8.1."

--
John Corliss

[John Corliss]

Mike Easter wrote:
> John Corliss wrote:
>> It just happened again in spades.
>
> Are you lumping all alerts/problems or specifically the one in the OP?

Just the one in the OP:

>> "The connection timed out when attempting to contact news.
>> eternal-september.org."
>
> If that is the specific problem, is e-s accessible to IDServe at that
> moment?

I didn't check, Mike. I'll remember to do so the next time it happens.

> https://www.grc.com/id/idserve.htm "ID Serve", a simple, free, small
> (26 kbytes), and fast, general purpose Internet server identification
> utility.

Yes, I downloaded it the other day and made a shortcut to it.

> In this case, you would put news.eternal-september.org:119 into its
> field, because if you don't use the :119, its default mode is 80.

Thanks, Mike. I've saved your email as a reference. Seems like the
problem occurs whenever there are around 15 or so posts to read. I'll
hold off on reading ACF until that number has accumulated.

> e-s answers very quickly for me at this moment.
>
> That message indicates that e-s didn't answer/connect with Tb, not a
> failure to authenticate.

Gotcha. When I get results, I'll post back to this thread and let you
know what happened. Thanks for your help.

--
John Corliss

[Mike Easter]

John Corliss wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:

>> That message indicates that e-s didn't answer/connect with Tb, not a
>> failure to authenticate.
>
> Gotcha. When I get results, I'll post back to this thread and let you
> know what happened. Thanks for your help.

If it turns out that you connect just fine with IDServe but not Tb, I
would create a fresh e-s account and delete the old one.


--
Mike Easter

[kes]

No need to restart TB. Just change to another eternal september NG and
switch back immediately to the first one. Resume normal reading, with
just two clicks.

[John Corliss]

Thanks, but I only do ACF. And thanks to Mike Easter, I know now that
the problem is indeed with TB.

--
John Corliss

[John Corliss]

*Finally* I got the error message a little while ago. Ran IDServe and it
said:

Initiating server query ...
Looking up IP address for domain: news.eternal-september.org
The IP address for the domain is: 213.239.209.88
Connecting to the server on remote port: 119
[Connected] The server greeted our connection with this message:
200 mx02.eternal-september.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.0 (rc1
version) ready (posting ok)
Query complete.

so it most likely is the problem you described in your Message-ID:
<mailman.1456.1434120248....@lists.mozilla.org>

(your first reply to this thread.)

Mike, thanks a lot for your help on this. You really cut to the chase on
this one! 80)>

--
John Corliss

[Mike Easter]

John Corliss wrote:
> *Finally* I got the error message a little while ago. Ran IDServe and it
> said:

> [Connected]

> (your first reply to this thread.)

(Maybe e-s doesn't recognize Tb releasing connxn/s)

> Mike, thanks a lot for your help on this. You really cut to the chase on
> this one! 80)>

(Disclaimer: I've never tried or read of this for this specific
problem; but I wonder what it might say in such a circumstance as my
theory in the referred msg.)

Your XP can command netstat. You can see how many connxns Tb has to the
server. I just connected with OE and read a couple of msgs and ran
netstat and saw 2 connxns to the e-s server.

In XP I use the Command Prompt in Accessories or cmd from the Run function.


--
Mike Easter