How'd they end up there. Ep1
Chris Ilias
http://support.mozilla.com/kb/Basic+Troubleshooting#comments
"...When I click on to "contact us" on any site, including your own site
(example: Where your site states," Blake Ross he's the guy to blame")..."
I did a Google search for that quote, and found
<http://www.spreadfirefox.com/faq>. Is that the page the commenter is
referring to? If so, how did they end up there, when looking for Firefox
help?
Jason Barnabe (np)
> Interesting comment onhttp://support.mozilla.com/kb/Basic+Troubleshooting#comments
http://support.mozilla.com/kb/Terms%20of%20Service#comments
"IT SEEM THAT NO ONE CAN HELP ME WITH HOW TO BURN A CD FOR GAMES THIS
WAS NO HELP AT ALL"
Majken Connor
> _______________________________________________
So, I think he was just trying to contact firefox, maybe google told him
about spreadfirefox and he was poking around there? It seems like his
problem is that he's clicking on mailto links where he thinks he should be
getting a contact info page, and doesn't realize the windows that are
opening are email windows. Why he can't close them though, I've got
nothing.
John S. Thomsen
> http://support.mozilla.com/kb/Terms%20of%20Service#comments
>
> "IT SEEM THAT NO ONE CAN HELP ME WITH HOW TO BURN A CD FOR GAMES THIS
> WAS NO HELP AT ALL"
I suppose that comment is a result of "Thanks for the feedback. Have
more to tell us?"
To my surprise, the scope of "us" seems to cover not just an internal
Mozilla support team, but any user with a SUMO account. I think "us"
should be replaced by something explicit, like e.g.: "Thanks for the
feedback. Have a comment for the support community?"
Majken Connor
> _______________________________________________
> support-planning mailing list
> support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-planning
>
Hmm, yes I agree that we need something to let people know that the comments
are visible to people logged in. Though I'm not sure your suggestion quite
does it. If people don't understand that Mozilla does things open like, and
that sumo is a volunteer community, just saying community might not be
explicit enough.
I think maybe some smaller text that simply says "your comment will be
visible on this page to all logged in users" might be the best way to go?
What do you think?
John S. Thomsen
> I think maybe some smaller text that simply says "your comment will be
> visible on this page to all logged in users" might be the best way to go?
That solution would also make me feel good.
Jason Barnabe (np)
> I think maybe some smaller text that simply says "your comment will be
> visible on this page to all logged in users" might be the best way to go?
> What do you think?
"all logged in users" still raises the question of who that might be.
It'll also be another thing to change if we add a contributors group.
How about "your comment will be visible to this site's contributors"?
Majken Connor
wrote:
> _______________________________________________
>
I think that goes back to making it sound like it's just an internal team.
There's a login link at the top of the page, so I think that would hopefully
give the impression that it's open. Though I do see that it's still vague.
What about "anyone who logs in" ? Does that give it more of the feeling that
anyone can choose to register and log in?
David Tenser
"Note: Your comment will be visisble to anyone who <signs up as a
contributor> to this web site."
Perhaps?
mozillasup...@spamgourmet.com
specific Knowledge base article. If you need technical assistance,
support or wish to make general comments about Mozilla support for
Firefox, see [[insert links here]]." Perhaps also a comment about how
the forums are better trafficked and thus they're much more likely to
get a response by posting there.
--Cww.
On Jan 12, 2008 6:10 AM,
<+mozillasupport+cww+b0ef793f5a.support-planning-request#lists.mo...@spamgourmet.com>
wrote:
> Send support-planning mailing list submissions to
> support-...@lists.mozilla.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-planning
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> support-plan...@lists.mozilla.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> support-pla...@lists.mozilla.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of support-planning digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1 (John S. Thomsen)
> 2. Re: Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1 (Majken Connor)
> 3. Re: Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1 (John S. Thomsen)
> 4. Re: Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1 (Jason Barnabe (np))
> 5. Re: Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1 (Majken Connor)
> 6. Writing a KB article -- some feedback
> (mozillasup...@spamgourmet.com)
> 7. Re: Writing a KB article -- some feedback (Jason Barnabe (np))
> 8. Re: Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1 (David Tenser)
> 9. Re: Support link of mozilla.com now point to SUMO (David Tenser)
> 10. Re: Support link of mozilla.com now point to SUMO (David Tenser)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:28:44 +0100
> From: "John S. Thomsen" <john.s....@gmail.com>
> Subject: Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1
> To: support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> Message-ID: <OIKdnXLMHu8CcBra...@mozilla.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Jason Barnabe (np) wrote:
> > http://support.mozilla.com/kb/Terms%20of%20Service#comments
> >
> > "IT SEEM THAT NO ONE CAN HELP ME WITH HOW TO BURN A CD FOR GAMES THIS
> > WAS NO HELP AT ALL"
>
> I suppose that comment is a result of "Thanks for the feedback. Have
> more to tell us?"
>
> To my surprise, the scope of "us" seems to cover not just an internal
> Mozilla support team, but any user with a SUMO account. I think "us"
> should be replaced by something explicit, like e.g.: "Thanks for the
> feedback. Have a comment for the support community?"
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:46:10 -0500
> From: "Majken Connor" <maj...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1
> To: support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> Message-ID:
> <a69a9af0801111446n58b...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Jan 11, 2008 5:28 PM, John S. Thomsen <john.s....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Jason Barnabe (np) wrote:
> > > http://support.mozilla.com/kb/Terms%20of%20Service#comments
> > >
> > > "IT SEEM THAT NO ONE CAN HELP ME WITH HOW TO BURN A CD FOR GAMES THIS
> > > WAS NO HELP AT ALL"
> >
> > I suppose that comment is a result of "Thanks for the feedback. Have
> > more to tell us?"
> >
> > To my surprise, the scope of "us" seems to cover not just an internal
> > Mozilla support team, but any user with a SUMO account. I think "us"
> > should be replaced by something explicit, like e.g.: "Thanks for the
> > feedback. Have a comment for the support community?"
> > _______________________________________________
> > support-planning mailing list
> > support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-planning
> >
>
>
> Hmm, yes I agree that we need something to let people know that the comments
> are visible to people logged in. Though I'm not sure your suggestion quite
> does it. If people don't understand that Mozilla does things open like, and
> that sumo is a volunteer community, just saying community might not be
> explicit enough.
>
> I think maybe some smaller text that simply says "your comment will be
> visible on this page to all logged in users" might be the best way to go?
> What do you think?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:48:22 +0100
> From: "John S. Thomsen" <john.s....@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1
> To: support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> Message-ID: <Jr-dnd8eNofanRXa...@mozilla.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Majken Connor wrote:
> > I think maybe some smaller text that simply says "your comment will be
> > visible on this page to all logged in users" might be the best way to go?
>
> That solution would also make me feel good.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 20:51:41 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Jason Barnabe (np)" <jason_...@fastmail.fm>
> Subject: Re: Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1
> To: support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> Message-ID:
> <84d6a967-360b-4f64...@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Jan 11, 4:46?pm, "Majken Connor" <maj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think maybe some smaller text that simply says "your comment will be
> > visible on this page to all logged in users" might be the best way to go?
> > What do you think?
>
> "all logged in users" still raises the question of who that might be.
> It'll also be another thing to change if we add a contributors group.
>
> How about "your comment will be visible to this site's contributors"?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:32:33 -0500
> From: "Majken Connor" <maj...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1
> To: support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> Message-ID:
> <a69a9af0801112132wf52...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Jan 11, 2008 11:51 PM, Jason Barnabe (np) <jason_...@fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>
> > On Jan 11, 4:46pm, "Majken Connor" <maj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I think maybe some smaller text that simply says "your comment will be
> > > visible on this page to all logged in users" might be the best way to
> > go?
> > > What do you think?
> >
> > "all logged in users" still raises the question of who that might be.
> > It'll also be another thing to change if we add a contributors group.
> >
> > How about "your comment will be visible to this site's contributors"?
> > _______________________________________________
> >
>
> I think that goes back to making it sound like it's just an internal team.
> There's a login link at the top of the page, so I think that would hopefully
> give the impression that it's open. Though I do see that it's still vague.
> What about "anyone who logs in" ? Does that give it more of the feeling that
> anyone can choose to register and log in?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:51:31 -0500
> From: mozillasup...@spamgourmet.com
> Subject: Writing a KB article -- some feedback
> To: support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> Message-ID:
> <986f2ecd0801112151g766...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Support-folks:
>
> Ok, I'm writing my second KB article (I know, I know, I'm new to the
> whole Support thing.), but I wanted to give some feedback about how
> I'm finding this whole process:
>
> 1) Amazingly smooth in general. Maybe because some people are always
> around in #sumo to help, maybe because I was just building on the
> experiences of many of the other great KB writers of my generation,
> but no major snags.
>
> 2) Bugzilla is the one big downside. So many of the fields are not
> useful and without editbugs, I couldn't assign myself the task of
> writing an article, I had to wait for cilias and the process was all
> drawn out. It'd have been nice to just get on with writing as soon as
> I had the idea for writing rather than a long process that took away
> some of the drive to get the article written.
>
> 3) That timer in tikiwiki is panic inducing. For the second time
> around, I've learned to compose stuff in an outside editor but I would
> rather not have to deal with it... especially that popup. (An aside,
> I'd like to give a verbal warning to all potential KB writers familiar
> with mediawiki that the markup is totally different... that was a
> shock to me my first time.)
>
> 4) Exactly how much support I'm giving confuses me sometimes (I'm
> easily confused), so a style guide on when to give click-by-click
> instructions and when we can refer to other articles would be great.
> Also a sense of what's article-worthy and what's not would be good,
> too. This said, I'm giving mad mad props to cilias who patiently
> answered every question and then some.
>
> I think the sum up is that the process could be a lot smoother. I know
> in Mediawiki and I'm pretty sure in tikiwiki that there are mechanisms
> for requesting articles that may be able to replace bugzilla. This
> said, however, I must admit with the massive amounts of support that I
> got, it turned out OK. After all, I'm writing a second. And hopefully
> many more.
>
> -- Cww.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 23:28:35 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Jason Barnabe (np)" <jason_...@fastmail.fm>
> Subject: Re: Writing a KB article -- some feedback
> To: support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> Message-ID:
> <2741aed4-d2a5-478c...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Jan 11, 11:51?pm, mozillasupport.20....@spamgourmet.com wrote:
> > 3) That timer in tikiwiki is panic inducing. For the second time
> > around, I've learned to compose stuff in an outside editor but I would
> > rather not have to deal with it... especially that popup. (An aside,
> > I'd like to give a verbal warning to all potential KB writers familiar
> > with mediawiki that the markup is totally different... that was a
> > shock to me my first time.)
>
> If I'm not mistaken, the point of the timer is to tell you that after
> 15 minutes, you will use your "lock" on an article and someone else
> can go and edit it. I think we could improve this. We could have the
> edit page "heart beat" back to the server and reset the (invisible)
> timer as long as the users keypressing in the field. If the user stops
> doing stuff, then show the alert or confirm.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:37:29 +0100
> From: David Tenser <djst.m...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Please remove implicit use of "us" Re: How'd they end up
> there. Ep1
> To: support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> Message-ID: <qNCdnY_V5Jn_BRXa...@mozilla.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:50:10 +0100
> From: David Tenser <djst.m...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Support link of mozilla.com now point to SUMO
> To: support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> Message-ID: <sPWdne6U17PGBhXa...@mozilla.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Reed Loden wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:18:07 -0500
> > Chris Ilias <n...@ilias.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> On 1/11/08 12:00 PM, _David Tenser_ spoke thusly:
> >>> The Support link in the top menu of mozilla.com now points directly
> >>> to SUMO! Check it out at: http://www.mozilla.com
> >> Just noticed ... not only is the www.mozilla.com support link going
> >> to sumo, the one on www.mozilla.org is as well.
> >
> > Uh, that's just wrong. Please revert that change. www.mozilla.org is
> > not Firefox only.
>
> Just a heads up to everyone: we reverted the change on mozilla.org and
> will work on making the mozilla.org/support link to firefox support more
> prominent instead. Most Firefox visitors use mozilla.com anyway, and
> mozilla.org covers more than just Firefox.
>
> After all, my understanding has always been that mozilla.org=projects
> and mozilla.com=products, so it does make sense to me to not link
> directly to SUMO from mozilla.org.
>
> mozilla.com still links straight to SUMO, for the en-US locale. As we
> start creating localized start pages for other locales, we will increase
> the number of locales that link to SUMO directly from mozilla.com. I
> plan on blogging about these ideas to make this clearer to everyone.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 12:09:12 +0100
> From: David Tenser <djst.m...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Support link of mozilla.com now point to SUMO
> To: support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> Message-ID: <47889FD8...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> David Tenser wrote:
> > Jason Barnabe (np) wrote:
> >> On Jan 11, 11:00 am, David Tenser <djst.mozi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> The Support link in the top menu of mozilla.com now points directly to
> >>> SUMO! Check it out at:http://www.mozilla.com
> >>>
> >>> Should be interesting to see how much more traffic this will generate.
> >>
> >> Did it happen a few hours ago? I've noticed that we've already got two
> >> pages of threads in the forum for today, compared to less than one
> >> page per day at the start of the week.
> >
> >
> > I don't know what to expect in increased traffic. People previously
> > clicking on Support on mozilla.com were presented with the Knowledge
> > Base link on the mozilla.com/support page, so it's not certain the
> > traffic will increase that much. We'll see on 12:00 am pst the stats for
> > Friday.
>
>
> Based on the traffic data in Urchin, it appears like the number of
> unique sessions between last Friday and December 28th have tripled. Also
> relevant is the bounce rate of the start page, which seems to have
> doubled (around 40% instead of 20%).
>
> This means, roughly counting, that among the ca 5500 increased session
> hits on the start page per day, ca 2200 are leaving the site right away
> (either by clicking Back, or by clicking on another link on the top
> banner, or Thunderbird Help).
>
> Should get better stats in a couple of days.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> support-planning mailing list
> support-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-planning
>
>
> End of support-planning Digest, Vol 9, Issue 9
> **********************************************
>
Chris Ilias
90% of article comments are from people looking for support. Going
through my sumo notifications takes a lot of time. I've stopped watching
quite a few articles, but that may mean missing good article feedback as
well. I think we more than a note. We need to make sure people looking
for support are directed somewhere (i.e. the forum or related articles)
where they can get the help they need.
Majken Connor
Short term we could move the "need more help" info to the bottom (or
duplicate it there) but i think we agreed to go ahead with the plan to make
selecting "no" give you more options than just leaving feedback. We should
definitely get started on that. Is there a bug filed?
David Tenser
> On Jan 17, 2008 11:17 PM, Chris Ilias <n...@ilias.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 1/12/08 5:37 AM, _David Tenser_ spoke thusly:
>>> Jason Barnabe (np) wrote:
>>>> On Jan 11, 4:46 pm, "Majken Connor" <maj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I think maybe some smaller text that simply says "your comment will be
>>>>> visible on this page to all logged in users" might be the best way to
>>>>> go?
>>>>> What do you think?
>>>> "all logged in users" still raises the question of who that might be.
>>>> It'll also be another thing to change if we add a contributors group.
>>>>
>>>> How about "your comment will be visible to this site's contributors"?
>>> "Note: Your comment will be visisble to anyone who <signs up as a
>>> contributor> to this web site."
>>>
>>> Perhaps?
>> 90% of article comments are from people looking for support. Going
>> through my sumo notifications takes a lot of time. I've stopped watching
>> quite a few articles, but that may mean missing good article feedback as
>> well. I think we more than a note. We need to make sure people looking
>> for support are directed somewhere (i.e. the forum or related articles)
>> where they can get the help they need.
See below for a possible solution.
>>
>
> Short term we could move the "need more help" info to the bottom (or
> duplicate it there) but i think we agreed to go ahead with the plan to make
> selecting "no" give you more options than just leaving feedback. We should
> definitely get started on that. Is there a bug filed?
Feel free to file a bug for that. We can possibly assign it to the 0.6
milestone (which should be completed before Firefox 3 launch), but I'll
let Nelson determine how much time he would need.
In my opinion, this "additional help" popping up /when someone votes No/
is a bonus feature, but it's not enough; the info should also be
available for the people who don't vote (and don't except to get more
help by voting).
So, I would like to see e.g. a "Need more help?" link/button at the end
of the article. If you click on that, this "additional help" section
would appear too, just as it would if you vote No on that poll.
This info could, for example, include the top 3 relevant articles for
the current article, and then a link below it saying "Ask a Question."
That link would in turn take the user to a new page which presents the
available "ask a question" options: forums, live chat, and perhaps even
irc and newsgroups.
Example (the boxes represent ajax generated content that will be shown
when clicking the -> link):
-> Need more help? Click here!
____________________________________
| Related articles |
| - Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet |
| - Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet |
| - Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet |
| |
| Ask a question |
|__________________________________|
Article Feedback
Did this article solve a problem you had with Firefox? [Yes] [No]
Was this article easy to understand? [Yes] [No]
-> Have other feedback about the article? Click here!
___________________________________
| | This feedback is intended for
| | content writers and will be
| | visible for all contributors
| | logged in.
| |
| | If you're looking for support,
| | click here instead.
| |
| |
|_________________________________|
Enter 34923 here: [ ] (what's this?) [Submit]
That's what I have in mind about this. Feel free to voice your opinions
about it.
Majken Connor
That looks just right to me, and I've been dying to find a use for tiki's
collapsible text ;)
Majken Connor
>
>
> On Jan 18, 2008 11:13 AM, David Tenser <djst.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That looks just right to me, and I've been dying to find a use for tiki's
> collapsible text ;)
>
filed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413086
Left out the UI mockup for now to give others a chance to comment on it here
first. Also I use a mailing list to read this, so if someone could link
this discussion in the bug that'd be awesome.
Marc Laporte
>>
>>
>> That's what I have in mind about this. Feel free to voice your opinions
>> about it.
>>
>
> That looks just right to me, and I've been dying to find a use for tiki's
> collapsible text ;)
hahahaha
I totally know the feeling of a having a good solution looking for a
problem to solve :-)
Chris Ilias
Right now, I'm pretty close voting for scrapping article feedback from
anonymous visitors. I'd say less than 5% of the Anonymous feedback is
from people not expecting a reply. It makes reading through article
feedback mush less efficient; and it's a bad support experience for
those 95% not getting a reply.
How fast can we get the above implemented? This is a major problem.
By the way, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet"? :)
Majken Connor
> _______________________________________________
>
Now that the forums and chat are live, I'd definitely agree with this.
People who don't get their answer from an article should move on to another
source, not just leave feedback, and we can go through threads and chats to
see which articles need improving.
Jason Barnabe (np)
> Right now, I'm pretty close voting for scrapping article feedback from
> anonymous visitors. I'd say less than 5% of the Anonymous feedback is
> from people not expecting a reply. It makes reading through article
> feedback mush less efficient; and it's a bad support experience for
> those 95% not getting a reply.
Just because someone is expecting a reply doesn't mean that the
feedback they gave isn't helpful to us. It also doesn't mean that the
user didn't use forum or chat later.
The ideal solution would encourage the user to tell us what's wrong
with our article then point them to somewhere they can personally get
help.
Majken Connor
wrote:
> On Jan 22, 10:45 pm, Chris Ilias <n...@ilias.ca> wrote:
> _______________________________________________
>
Shouldn't it be fairly easy to find out how many users left feedback and
then ended their session with us there?
David Tenser
> Right now, I'm pretty close voting for scrapping article feedback from
> anonymous visitors. I'd say less than 5% of the Anonymous feedback is
> from people not expecting a reply. It makes reading through article
> feedback mush less efficient; and it's a bad support experience for
> those 95% not getting a reply.
A simple solution that shouldn't be too hard to achieve with some AJAX
is a simple thank you notice after feedback is sent:
"Thank you for providing feedback on the article. Note that
>
> How fast can we get the above implemented? This is a major problem.
I think we should squeeze this into the 0.6 milestone, which means
before Firefox 3 ships. In the meantime, nothing stops us from just
altering the text above the feedback box, making it more obvious that we
will not reply to the feedback and that there are better places to ask
questions. The only thing in the way is a new live push, assuming this
isn't just a configuration thing (is it?).
Current:
"Thanks for the feedback. Have more to tell us?
Your feedback will be used to improve this article. If you're looking
for more help, see the Need More Help? box on the right of this page."
Suggestion:
"Have more to tell the us about this article?
Please only provide feedback about the contents of this article. The
purpose is to help us improving the quality of the article, and you will
not get a reply from us. If you need support, please <ask a question*>
in the forum or Live Chat instead."
*) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413738
>
> By the way, "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet"? :)
Do you have a problem with my Latin? ;)
David Tenser
> Chris Ilias wrote:
>> Right now, I'm pretty close voting for scrapping article feedback from
>> anonymous visitors. I'd say less than 5% of the Anonymous feedback is
>> from people not expecting a reply. It makes reading through article
>> feedback mush less efficient; and it's a bad support experience for
>> those 95% not getting a reply.
>
> A simple solution that shouldn't be too hard to achieve with some AJAX
> is a simple thank you notice after feedback is sent:
>
> "Thank you for providing feedback on the article. Note that
>
Please disregard this half-finished part. What I have in mind for the
text that would appear after you actually send feedback is to introduce
the user to the community aspect of the site.
"Thank you for your feedback!
Did you know that the articles on this site are written by volunteers?
Bla bla, sign up, write an article, thanks for being you, etc"
Kudos to Asa for suggesting this.
Majken Connor
> _______________________________________________
>
I still have to agree with Chris on this one.
To leave things the way they are, we're hoping users will leave feedback on
at least one article they landed on. Trying to get feedback through either
their contact with the forums and live chat, or an exit survey gives us the
best chance at getting a complete picture of what's wrong. It's actually
pretty hard to know which information was missing from the article, if we
don't know what actually solved their problem.
Long term we should work on the survey idea that keeps coming up. And short
term all these changes we're talking about should make some difference, but
95% is just such a large number. Either most anonymous users don't need to
leave feedback, they need more help, or people who want to leave feedback
aren't finding the feedback form.
Chris: in the 5% that don't expect a reply, how many of those leave feedback
we can act on?
David Tenser
Agreeing on removing the article feedback? The biggest reason why people
are asking support questions in the feedback is because we haven't made
it more obvious where people _should_ ask for help. Hence the need to
fix https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413086 for the 0.6
milestone. No wonder people provide feedback in that big fat text area
when we don't prominently show our support offerings.
That said, I agree with you that the article feedback users may or may
not provide is not capturing the full picture of where the user started
and ultimately landed.
However, that doesn't make the feedback we actually get useless. The
biggest problem right now is the noise level, something bug 413086 will
fix long-term, and I'm sure the proposed text change above (and actually
linking to that Ask a question page) will improve the situation short-term.
> To leave things the way they are, we're hoping users will leave feedback on
> at least one article they landed on. Trying to get feedback through either
> their contact with the forums and live chat, or an exit survey gives us the
> best chance at getting a complete picture of what's wrong. It's actually
> pretty hard to know which information was missing from the article, if we
> don't know what actually solved their problem.
It would certainly be nice to be able to backtrack the user to see
exactly what pages and search terms were used before he/she landed in a
live chat session or posted a question in the forum. I'm not sure
exactly how cookies work, but shouldn't it be possible to log everything
in a big cookie that the Ask a Question page could fetch? This is
getting technical, though, so feel free to now answer. :)
>
> Long term we should work on the survey idea that keeps coming up.
When was that brought up?
> And short
> term all these changes we're talking about should make some difference, but
> 95% is just such a large number.
Not sure how accurate that number is, but I would guess it would be
reduced dramatically once we land 413086. The short-term solution of
changing the text should help too, but I have no idea how much.
> Either most anonymous users don't need to
> leave feedback, they need more help, or people who want to leave feedback
> aren't finding the feedback form.
Definitely the former, is my guess. People need help, and there is one
big text field asking for input. We need to hide it by default and start
the footer section with a prominent "Need more help? Click here!" link.
Again, four hundred and thirteen thousand eighty six.
Jason Barnabe (np)
> I think we should squeeze this into the 0.6 milestone, which means
> before Firefox 3 ships. In the meantime, nothing stops us from just
> altering the text above the feedback box, making it more obvious that we
> will not reply to the feedback and that there are better places to ask
> questions. The only thing in the way is a new live push, assuming this
> isn't just a configuration thing (is it?).
This would require a patch and a push. I can make the patch once the
wording is decided.
> Suggestion:
>
> "Have more to tell the us about this article?
> Please only provide feedback about the contents of this article. The
> purpose is to help us improving the quality of the article, and you will
> not get a reply from us. If you need support, please <ask a question*>
> in the forum or Live Chat instead."
A little wordy, but I agree with the general idea.
Jason Barnabe (np)
Can you make a flowchart or something so I can better understand what
you're suggesting?
David Tenser
Here I go, hope this makes sense. :)
=== 1: initial state ===
<h2><a>Have more feedback about this article? Click here!</a></h2>
=== 2: link was clicked; previous content replaced ===
<h2>Have more feedback about this article?</h2>
<p>This is your chance to help us improving the quality of this article.
Note that you will not be contacted by us. If you need help, please
<strong><a href="/kb/Ask+a+question">ask a support question
here</a></strong> instead.</p>
---------------------------------------------------------
| |
| |
| |
---------------------------------------------------------
Captcha stuff [ Submit ]
=== 3: submit was clicked; previous content replaced ===
<h2>Thank you for your feedback!</h2>
<p>Did you know that the articles on this site are written by volunteers
of the Mozilla community? It's easy to sign up and help out yourself!
For example, if you see a typo in this article, you can fix it right
away by clicking Edit this page at the top of this article.</p>
<p>Find out more on the <a href="/kb/Contributor+Home+Page">Contributor
Home Page</a>.</p>
David Tenser
> On Jan 23, 4:43 pm, David Tenser <djst.mozi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think we should squeeze this into the 0.6 milestone, which means
>> before Firefox 3 ships. In the meantime, nothing stops us from just
>> altering the text above the feedback box, making it more obvious that we
>> will not reply to the feedback and that there are better places to ask
>> questions. The only thing in the way is a new live push, assuming this
>> isn't just a configuration thing (is it?).
>
> This would require a patch and a push. I can make the patch once the
> wording is decided.
Excellent! I filed a separate bug for this quick(er) fix.
>
>> Suggestion:
>>
>> "Have more to tell the us about this article?
>> Please only provide feedback about the contents of this article. The
>> purpose is to help us improving the quality of the article, and you will
>> not get a reply from us. If you need support, please <ask a question*>
>> in the forum or Live Chat instead."
>
> A little wordy, but I agree with the general idea.
Here is a slightly more condensed alternative:
"Have more feedback about this article?
This is your chance to help us improving the quality of this article.
Note that you will not be contacted by us. If you need help, please
[b][link]ask a support question here[/link][/b] instead."
I filed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413808 and assigned
it to you, Jason.
Feel free to suggest a better wording either here or in the bug report.
Jason Barnabe (np)
>
> === 1: initial state ===
>
> <h2><a>Have more feedback about this article? Click here!</a></h2>
>
> === 2: link was clicked; previous content replaced ===
>
> <h2>Have more feedback about this article?</h2>
> <p>This is your chance to help us improving the quality of this article.
> Note that you will not be contacted by us. If you need help, please
> <strong><a href="/kb/Ask+a+question">ask a support question
> here</a></strong> instead.</p>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> | |
> | |
> | |
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Captcha stuff [ Submit ]
>
> === 3: submit was clicked; previous content replaced ===
>
> <h2>Thank you for your feedback!</h2>
>
> <p>Did you know that the articles on this site are written by volunteers
> of the Mozilla community? It's easy to sign up and help out yourself!
> For example, if you see a typo in this article, you can fix it right
> away by clicking Edit this page at the top of this article.</p>
>
> <p>Find out more on the <a href="/kb/Contributor+Home+Page">Contributor
> Home Page</a>.</p>
Where does voting in the polls fit in with all this?
This solution seems to push giving feedback OR getting support. The
flow is:
Click link -> give feedback -> info on how to be a contributor
or
Click link -> ask a question
Can we tweak it so users can do both? For example, remove the word
"instead" and add a link to ask a question in the top of the last
section. The flow then becomes
Click link -> give feedback -> info on how to be a contributor
or
Click link -> ask a question
or
Click link -> give feedback -> ask a question
David Tenser
See my parent-parent-parent-parent-parent post on this. :)
-> Need more help? Click here!
____________________________________
| Related articles |
| - Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet |
| - Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet |
| - Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet |
| |
| Ask a question |
|__________________________________|
Article Feedback
Did this article solve a problem you had with Firefox? [Yes] [No]
Was this article easy to understand? [Yes] [No]
-> Have other feedback about the article? Click here!
___________________________________
| All the things I |
| mentioned in my parent post |
| goes here |
| |
| |
| |
|__________________________________|
So, there would be two "collapsed" links, and clicking one of them would
open the corresponding box. You would be able to click on both and show
both boxes at the same time.
"Need more help?" would be displayed first, followed by an article
feedback section showing only the two yes/no polls by default, and the
"Have more feedback..." link below it.
Majken Connor
> _______________________________________________
>
What will the "ask a question" bit do? another search of the kb?
Chris Ilias
I assume go to the "ask a question" article.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413738
David Tenser
> On 1/24/08 1:11 PM, _Majken Connor_ spoke thusly:
>
> I assume go to the "ask a question" article.
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=413738
Yes. Instead of linking directly to Live Chat and Forums, we have a page
that explains what they are and their difference.
Majken Connor
> _______________________________________________
>
Ahh thanks, I missed that.
David Tenser
I also wanted to highlight this in the mockup I made (see the menu), to
allow people to reach the channel that best matches their needs with
regards to forum vs live chat.
However, we probably still need to have a Forum menu because of the
reason Jason pointed out earlier: that people are going back to old
threads. Of course, that menu should be made flexible anyway, to allow
extra items for some locales.