Is there any way to get rid of the Firefox search bar?

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

Is there any way to get rid of the Firefox search bar?

I already have the menus hidden; and I removed bookmarks
and status and all the wasteful toolbars.

All I need for URLs and for search is the URL bar.
But, I can't seem to get rid of the search bar.

My reason for using only the URL bar is that I am conserving
space, where laptop screen space in the X:Y direction is
critical. You can put both the search & URL bar in the
same line (I do), but then you still have a "space" problem,
in that the one line can only be the width of the browser.

Since the search bar adds no value over the URL bar,
what Firefox setting removes the Firefox search bar?

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 17:16:31 -0500, Hartdonor wrote:

> I don't know which version you're using, but in the current version
> 38.0.05, and tomorrow's 39, all you need to do is click the hamburger
> menu button (three lines with rounded edges), and then click "customize"
> on the menu that appears, and then click and drag the search bar into the
> "Additional Tools and Features" section.

Geez. I am stupid < embarrassed look on my face >.
I know I had tried it before, and it failed, but I just tried it now
(Firefox 37.0) and the search bar is now gone.

Please excuse my ignorance.
Thank you for kindly responding.
I should have checked again (but I was sure it was not removable becasue
I already have removed everything except the home and back and reload
buttons and the URL bar).
Sigh.

Thanks.

[Dave Symes]

In article
<mailman.1104.143561493...@lists.mozilla.org>,

Having just read, then re-read the above, a question has forced it's way
forward from mind to fingers...

If you want a browser with very little, if any UI at all, why are you
still using Firefox?

Google Chrome is already a UI less "thing" with masses of empty space.

Dave

--

Dave Triffid

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 06:17:30 +0100, Dave Symes wrote:

> If you want a browser with very little, if any UI at all, why are you
> still using Firefox?
>
> Google Chrome is already a UI less "thing" with masses of empty space.

That's a great question, especially since Chrome's search feature is
far (far) better than Firefox' search feature (control F).

Google Chrome has two deadly flaws, which make it unusable for me.

The first flaw everyone notices, but extremely few people even realize
the second flaw exists (it affects me greatly though).

The first flaw is that you can't just install Google Chrome.
You have to install all sorts of things in addition, that Google
makes difficult to remove (such as Google Crash Handler and
Google Update), neither of which I want.

I'm sure I could figure out how to get past that first flaw if
it weren't for the second deadly flaw, which I have never gotten
past.

Because of what I do, I do a lot of cut and pasting of URLs embedded
within text. Google Chrome, from the start (or Chromium) have both
been unable to copy text with URLs embedded in it.

This is a sample result:
This is text with a set of embedded URLs (<A HREF="http://google.com">1</a>) (<A HREF="http://google.com">2</a>) (<A HREF="http://google.com">3</a>) (<A HREF="http://google.com">4</a>) (<A HREF="http://google.com">5</a>)

This is a firefox cut and paste into a web site which I use a lot:
This is text with a set of embedded URLs (<A HREF="http://google.com">1</a>) (<A HREF="http://google.com">2</a>) (<A HREF="http://google.com">3</a>) (<A HREF="http://google.com">4</a>) (<A HREF="http://google.com">5</a>)

This is a firefox cut and paste into that same web site which I use a lot:
This is text with a set of embedded URLs (1) (2) (3) (4) (5)

The Chrome cut-and-paste, for whatever reason, fails to bring along
the URLs. It can only bring along a SINGLE URL at a time, which is
useless to me.

So, I can't use Chrome, even though Chrome's search is far superior
than that of Firefox (control F or slash).
~

[Wolf K.]

On 2015-06-29 5:55 PM, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:
[...]

> My reason for using only the URL bar is that I am conserving
> space, where laptop screen space in the X:Y direction is
> critical. You can put both the search & URL bar in the
> same line (I do), but then you still have a "space" problem,
> in that the one line can only be the width of the browser.
>
> Since the search bar adds no value over the URL bar,
> what Firefox setting removes the Firefox search bar?

I don't see a problem. You can type as much as you want into the Search
box, so having it on the same line isn't an issue from that POV.

Anyhow, the URL and the Search boxes function differently. URL Search is
limited, it provides links only to websites in your history; you can't
find new websites with it.

Have a good day,

--
Best,
Wolf K.
kirkwood40.blogspot.ca

[»Q«]

In
<news:mailman.1101.143567468...@lists.mozilla.org>,

"Wolf K." <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> On 2015-06-29 5:55 PM, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:

> > Since the search bar adds no value over the URL bar,
> > what Firefox setting removes the Firefox search bar?

> Anyhow, the URL and the Search boxes function differently. URL Search
> is limited, it provides links only to websites in your history; you
> can't find new websites with it.

You're talking about the drop-down list, populated from history and
bookmarks; Karlheinz is talking about the web-search feature of the
URL bar. By default, if you just enter some search terms in the
address bar, Fx will use your default web search engine on them.

The value the search bar adds over the URL bar is threefold, AFAIK.
The search bar gives you a GUI for using engines other than your
default, searches from the search bar are remembered (separately from
URL bar history), and search engines used in the search bar can provide
suggestions for the search terms as you type each character.

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 10:30:37 -0400, Wolf K. wrote:

> I don't see a problem. You can type as much as you want into the Search
> box, so having it on the same line isn't an issue from that POV.

I agree that you can type as much as you want, even if you can't
easily *see* what you typed, nor easily cut and paste sections
for reuse.

The reason for not wanting the search bar is that it does
exactly the same thing as the URL bar, so it's wasteful.

> Anyhow, the URL and the Search boxes function differently.

With my setup (privacy options are all set), I see absolutely
no difference between the two searches.

How is the URL search for, say, "car battery" any different
than a search bar search for the same terms?

> URL Search is limited, it provides links only to websites
> in your history; you can't find new websites with it.

We must be talking about two very different things because
I don't even have a history, and my URL search finds things
that are no different than the search bar search.

This is something like the fifth time someone has mentioned
*their* problem with the URL search where I don't have that
problem at all, and where the issue seems to be really that
their settings are wrong (for them).

My settings are right (for me), and with my settings, the
URL search finds the same stuff as the search bar search.

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

> You're talking about the drop-down list, populated from history and
> bookmarks; Karlheinz is talking about the web-search feature of the
> URL bar. By default, if you just enter some search terms in the
> address bar, Fx will use your default web search engine on them.

Thanks for clarifying because this wasn't the first time that folks
said they didn't like some feature of the URL bar search but I
don't offhand see *any* difference in the results of the URL bar
search versus the search bar search results.

> The value the search bar adds over the URL bar is threefold, AFAIK.
> The search bar gives you a GUI for using engines other than your
> default, searches from the search bar are remembered (separately from
> URL bar history), and search engines used in the search bar can provide
> suggestions for the search terms as you type each character.

It's good that you numerated the differences, because, in practice,
I don't see *any* difference; so here's my take on those three which
I appreciate that you brought up because I hadn't realized there
were any differences in operation:

1. GUI for other search engines.
I just use "Edit > Preferences > Search" and I can set the search
engine to whatever I want, and both the URL bar search and the
Search bar search respect that choice. So, while it might be
one fewer click, I wouldn't worry about that difference when it
comes to the choice of deleting the Search bar itself.

2. Searches are remembered.
Since privacy is a key concern, I have all my "remember" options
turned off. As far as I can tell, neither the search bar search
nor the URL bar search remembers anything. And, since I change my
IP address constantly, and since I don't save cookies, and
I have panopticlick/browserspy/browserleaks/etc. settings,
Google (or DDG or whomever) doesn't know who I am (I hope).
So, in practice, I don't see the difference.

3. I have suggestions turned off, and, in fact, I have *any*
connection to the outside world (other than the URL typed in
the URL bar) turned off. So, for me, in practice, I don't
see (nor do I wish to see) suggestions in either bar.

Given that, the only advantage of the search bar that I can
see which is of general use are the suggestions. For me, that
is actually a negative; but I can see that as being a positive
for others, and is probably positive enough to grant it the
real estate that it uses up in the horizontal direction.

BTW, I "think" the default is for the search bar to be on
a different "line" than the URL bar (I don't remember because
the FIRST thing I do with any browser is limit it to a single
line). If the search bar is on a different line, then that
would be the biggest negative of all, as UP:DOWN space is
the most precious on a typical laptop screen.

[WaltS48]

On 06/30/2015 11:19 AM, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 10:30:37 -0400, Wolf K. wrote:
>
>> I don't see a problem. You can type as much as you want into the Search
>> box, so having it on the same line isn't an issue from that POV.
>
> I agree that you can type as much as you want, even if you can't
> easily *see* what you typed, nor easily cut and paste sections
> for reuse.
>
> The reason for not wanting the search bar is that it does
> exactly the same thing as the URL bar, so it's wasteful.
>

But searching from the URL bar doesn't give you the One-Click icons to
select a different Search Engine.

<snip>



--
Kubuntu 14.10 | KDE 4.14.1 | Thunderbird 42.0a1(Daily) Go Bucs!
[Coexist · Understanding Across Divides](https://www.coexist.org/)
[Visit Pittsburgh](http://www.visitpittsburgh.com)
[2015 EQT Pittsburgh Three Rivers Regatta](http://www.yougottaregatta.com/)

[Roger]

On 29/06/2015 16:55, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:
> Is there any way to get rid of the Firefox search bar?
>
> I already have the menus hidden; and I removed bookmarks
> and status and all the wasteful toolbars.
>
> All I need for URLs and for search is the URL bar.
> But, I can't seem to get rid of the search bar.

When the screen gets cluttered f11 is a good option instead of throwing
away resources you might need under particular circumstances.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

[Roger]

On 29/06/2015 16:55, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:

> Is there any way to get rid of the Firefox search bar?
>
> I already have the menus hidden; and I removed bookmarks
> and status and all the wasteful toolbars.
>
> All I need for URLs and for search is the URL bar.
> But, I can't seem to get rid of the search bar.

[Roger]

On 29/06/2015 16:55, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:

> Is there any way to get rid of the Firefox search bar?
>
> I already have the menus hidden; and I removed bookmarks
> and status and all the wasteful toolbars.
>
> All I need for URLs and for search is the URL bar.
> But, I can't seem to get rid of the search bar.

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 09:28:44 -0500, Roger wrote:

> When the screen gets cluttered f11 is a good option instead of throwing
> away resources you might need under particular circumstances.

F11 sizes to the full screen, which in and of itself, is a privacy issue;
but forgetting that, F11 doesn't get rid of the (typical) rows of bars
(bookmarks toolbars, search bar, url bar, Favorites, etc,) does it?

The moment I set up a browser, I *always* reduce the wasted
up:down space to a single bar, so, I don't remember if F11 gets rid
of the extra wasted space below the URL bar. Does it?

As for "throwing away resources", as far as we know, the only
thing the Search bar does differently than the URL bar is
(thanks to Q boxcar)

1) it remembers differently
I have all that turned off for privacy reasons, so, for me,
there's no difference.

2) it allows changes to search engines differently
I can just as easily get to the Preferences > Search by the
menus (using alt + e), so, again that's no difference.

3) it suggests things
I have that turned off anyway, again, for privacy reasons.

So, for me anyway, there's NOTHING different about the results
from the Search bar search versus the URL bar search.

It's just a waste of horizontal space (and if it's on another bar,
it's a more egregious waste of up:down space, which is precious).

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 09:28:44 -0500, Roger wrote:

> When the screen gets cluttered f11 is a good option instead of throwing
> away resources you might need under particular circumstances.

Very bad for privacy though.
And F11 does nothing for the wasted space of the bars below the URL bar.

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 11:59:13 -0400, WaltS48 wrote:

> But searching from the URL bar doesn't give you the
> One-Click icons to select a different Search Engine.

That's nice, but I just hit "Alt+e n" which is two key
presses, and I can set my search engine also
(which both the search bar and url bar respect).

So, I agree, it's one less click once every few years
(when you change search engines); but I use DDG all the
time (for privacy reasons) which works fine for me.

You get one less click once in a while, or wasted
space all the time.

That's the only tradeoff.

Other than that, I see no difference in functionality.

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

> My reason for using only the URL bar is that I am conserving
> space, where laptop screen space in the X:Y direction is
> critical

Thanks to your help, I now have an efficient browser setup
that doesn't waste the precious up:down space.

It has a single bar, which has only two buttons added,
and it has the default two buttons.

0. Url bar (no need for a search bar or any other bar)
1. Home button (useful for some people, mine is set to DDG).
2. Back button (to the left of the URL bar)
3. Reload button (to the right of the URL bar)
4. Brosertabsclosebutton (to the right of everything)

The only extraneous button is the multi-line "Open Menu"
button, which I can't seem to delete for some reason.

Can you delete the "Open Menu" button?

[WaltS48]

Maybe one less click for you.

Try putting 1151448 in your URL bar. I put it in the Search Bar, click
the Bugzilla icon and go right to the bug. I use it often.

--
Kubuntu 14.10 | KDE 4.14.1 | Thunderbird 42.0a1(Daily) Go Bucs!
[Coexist · Understanding Across Divides](https://www.coexist.org/)
[Visit Pittsburgh](http://www.visitpittsburgh.com)

[Deutschtown Music Festival | A free full day of music July 11th,
featuring 120+ live bands playing all over
Deutschtown](http://deutschtownmusicfestival.org/)

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:54:10 -0400, WaltS48 wrote:

> Maybe one less click for you.
>
> Try putting 1151448 in your URL bar. I put it in the Search Bar, click
> the Bugzilla icon and go right to the bug. I use it often.

I'm not sure what you're talking about because we were discussing
that to get to a different search engine is one less click using
the GUI attached to the search bar.

If the search bar isn't there, then to change the search engine
takes "alt+e n" instead, which is an extra keystroke.

I might have missed the significance of the bugzilla though.
Are you saying that you use something like a bugzilla search
engine?

If so, then you're trading off real estate for the extra key
stroke that I have to do to bring up the search engine GUI.

I think, for me, that extra keystroke is worth having the
real estate 100% of the time on my screen.

YMMV

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:54:10 -0400, WaltS48 wrote:

> Try putting 1151448 in your URL bar. I put it in the Search Bar, click
> the Bugzilla icon and go right to the bug. I use it often.

I'm still trying to understand, since the search engine choice
affects both the URL bar and the search bar.

I just typed "1151448 bugzilla" into the URL bar and this
was the 1st hit (using DDG as the default search engine):
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1151448

I don't see that this is any more steps than what you do,
but I value your input (I learn from everyone).

How is me simply typing "bugzilla 1151448" into the URL bar
all that much different than you first swapping out your
search engine, selecting "Bugzilla" as the search engine,
and then typing "1151448" into the search bar?

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:25:24 -0500, Hartdonor wrote:

> Nope. That one is hard-coded. It allows access to what's left
> of the menu system in Firefox, and is therefore considered
> integral functionality.

Thanks for confirming that, as I had thought the search bar
couldn't be removed, but it could.

I don't see the need for the three-line-menu icon, since
everything on there (AFAICT) has a keystroke associated
with it, e.g., alt+p=print, ctrl+t=tab, ctrl++=zoom,
alt+e n = preferences, ctrl-s=save, ctrl+h=history,
ctrl+f=find (slash key works as well),
etc.

(Yes, I realize the value of NOT having to memorize keys,
I really do - but really - how many of these things do
you do that you CAN'T do from the menu already?)

I suspect there's not a single item you can't do from
the menu, so, it's wasted space (AFAIAC); but I understand
not everyone knows that, for example, ctrl+p is print
or that the slash (/) key is a find.

[WaltS48]

On 06/30/2015 01:40 PM, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:
> I might have missed the significance of the bugzilla though.
> Are you saying that you use something like a bugzilla search
> engine?

Yes, I use Bugzilla, addons.mozilla.org, IMDb and Firefox Apps search
engines.

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:47:41 -0500, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:

> How is me simply typing "bugzilla 1151448" into the URL bar
> all that much different than you first swapping out your
> search engine, selecting "Bugzilla" as the search engine,
> and then typing "1151448" into the search bar?

I'm still trying to faithfully figure out why the bugzilla
search engine example is any better than the URL example.

It seems far worse in fact, than just typing "1151418 bugzilla"
into the URL bar, since you seem to have to do this:
1. Click the search GUI to select the bugzilla search engine
2. Type 1151418 into the search bar
3. Click the search GUI to switch back to the default engine

By way of comparison, the steps I run are:
1. Type "bugzilla 1151418" into the URL bar
2. Click on the relevant link

Of course, I guess, there are two things you might be talking
about, one of which is that I need to type a space and then
another keyword (while you don't), but, that doesn't seem to
be a big deal.

The other drawback of my method is that the search might not
find what I wanted in the first search page; but in the case
you gave me, it was (I think) the first hit - and - if you
do it all the time - certainly you'll have the search terms
honed (e.g., -url).

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 14:01:20 -0400, WaltS48 wrote:

> Yes, I use Bugzilla, addons.mozilla.org, IMDb and Firefox Apps search
> engines.

If you can give me an example for addons.mozilla.org, IMDb, and
Firefox Apps search terms, I'll try it on my URL bar and tell you
what the first hit is.

I think I understand your point, which, for people who constantly
change search engines (I don't) every button click saves them time.

I think you only save a single button click, and then you use it
up by having to reset the search engine - but - you probably get
a better result from a dedicated search engine - however - if you
do it all the time - then you can easily hone the url bar search
engine results.

The reason I ask for the examples is that I've never understood
why anyone uses the search bar feature in the first place, since,
I don't see any added value, and certainly it takes up space.

[WaltS48]

Never tried "1151448 bugzilla". Thanks for teaching me something new.

I don't swap out the search engine, then type "1151448". I type then
click the One-click button for the Bugzilla search engine, which I added
to the search engines on a previous visit to bugzilla.

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 14:08:19 -0400, WaltS48 wrote:

> Never tried "1151448 bugzilla".
> Thanks for teaching me something new.

My pleasure.
Lord knows, you guys have taught me a lot!

AFAICT, the only difference between the Search bar and the URL bar
is that you have to type a space. This works for "car battery" but
it doesn't work for just "car" or just "battery".

However, it's not a big deal to type "car x" if all you want is
to search on "car" and "battery x" if all you want to do is search
on battery (however, most of the searches I run are multi-termed
anyway, so, in effect, there is no difference between a search
on the URL bar versus a search on the Search bar.

> I don't swap out the search engine, then type "1151448". I type then
> click the One-click button for the Bugzilla search engine, which I added
> to the search engines on a previous visit to bugzilla.

Does it switch back to the default search engine automatically?

If it does, then I agree you save a step over what I do because
I have to click on the results of the search while you, I presume,
get the page opened up for you instead of having to click on the
first link of the results.

[WaltS48]

On 06/30/2015 02:05 PM, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:47:41 -0500, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:
>
>> How is me simply typing "bugzilla 1151448" into the URL bar
>> all that much different than you first swapping out your
>> search engine, selecting "Bugzilla" as the search engine,
>> and then typing "1151448" into the search bar?
>
> I'm still trying to faithfully figure out why the bugzilla
> search engine example is any better than the URL example.
>
> It seems far worse in fact, than just typing "1151418 bugzilla"
> into the URL bar, since you seem to have to do this:
> 1. Click the search GUI to select the bugzilla search engine
> 2. Type 1151418 into the search bar
> 3. Click the search GUI to switch back to the default engine
>

No, I don't select the bugzilla search engine first.
I only type a bug number into the search, bar and select the One-click
icon for the bugzilla search engine.
No need to switch anything back to default. It stays default.

Unless you had to be one of those users that want the old Search UI and
set "browser.search.showOneOffButtons" to false in about:config.

Or maybe you are using a different version without the One-Click search.

"Improved search bar (en-US only)"

[Firefox — Notes (34.0.5) —
Mozilla](https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/34.0.5/releasenotes/)

> By way of comparison, the steps I run are:
> 1. Type "bugzilla 1151418" into the URL bar
> 2. Click on the relevant link
>

Only because I identified it as a bug, and explained how I search for
bug numbers.

> Of course, I guess, there are two things you might be talking
> about, one of which is that I need to type a space and then
> another keyword (while you don't), but, that doesn't seem to
> be a big deal.
>

I use One Click search, in the Search bar.

> The other drawback of my method is that the search might not
> find what I wanted in the first search page; but in the case
> you gave me, it was (I think) the first hit - and - if you
> do it all the time - certainly you'll have the search terms
> honed (e.g., -url).
>

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 14:49:00 -0400, WaltS48 wrote:

> No, I don't select the bugzilla search engine first.
> I only type a bug number into the search, bar and select the One-click
> icon for the bugzilla search engine.
> No need to switch anything back to default. It stays default.

That's good to know.
So your search is click efficient.
So is mine.

Does your search result also list whatever it finds in a web page?
Or does it jump directly to the first link it finds?

Otherwise, I can't see the real difference between the two, other
than one takes up more space than the other.

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 15:03:04 -0700, Mike Paff wrote:

> Right-click on the toolbar, select Customize.
> Drag the search bar away, and exit customization.

I now know that. Thanks. It was too easy.
For some reason I had tried in the past and failed.
But it's gone now.

Thanks!

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

Thanks for your help.

To give back to the group, here is a simple graphic
I made just by opening up Firefox and labeling the
changes.

It's as clean as I can get Firefox 37 to be:
http://i60.tinypic.com/14smobc.jpg

If you know of a way to clean it up further, without
losing privacy, please let me know!

I think everyone can benefit from the thought process
involved in making the decisions that resulted in a
clean and safe Firefox browser.

NOTE: The distribution directory was blown away to
protect privacy (/usr/lib/firefox/distribution/).

[Philip Chee]

When the new Unified Autocomplete feature lands, search suggestions will
start showing up in the location bar (a.k.a. the url bar).

Phil

--
Philip Chee <phi...@aleytys.pc.my>, <phili...@gmail.com>
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.

[WaltS48]

On 07/01/2015 08:44 AM, Philip Chee wrote:
> On 30/06/2015 22:57, »Q« wrote:
>> In <news:mailman.1101.143567468...@lists.mozilla.org>,
> "Wolf K." <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>>> Anyhow, the URL and the Search boxes function differently. URL
>>> Search is limited, it provides links only to websites in your
>>> history; you can't find new websites with it.
>>
>> You're talking about the drop-down list, populated from history and
>> bookmarks; Karlheinz is talking about the web-search feature of the
>> URL bar. By default, if you just enter some search terms in the
>> address bar, Fx will use your default web search engine on them.
>>
>> The value the search bar adds over the URL bar is threefold, AFAIK.
>> The search bar gives you a GUI for using engines other than your
>> default, searches from the search bar are remembered (separately
>> from URL bar history), and search engines used in the search bar can
>> provide suggestions for the search terms as you type each character.
>
> When the new Unified Autocomplete feature lands, search suggestions will
> start showing up in the location bar (a.k.a. the url bar).
>
> Phil
>

I think the one click buttons will also show up. No?

[Philip Chee]

On 01/07/2015 02:19, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:

> AFAICT, the only difference between the Search bar and the URL bar
> is that you have to type a space. This works for "car battery" but
> it doesn't work for just "car" or just "battery".
>
> However, it's not a big deal to type "car x" if all you want is
> to search on "car" and "battery x" if all you want to do is search
> on battery (however, most of the searches I run are multi-termed
> anyway, so, in effect, there is no difference between a search
> on the URL bar versus a search on the Search bar.

You can just prepend a question mark e.g. "?battery"

[Caver1]

What is so insecure about Firefox in fullscreen mode?

--
Caver1

[»Q«]

In
<news:mailman.1263.143575842...@lists.mozilla.org>,

Caver1 <cav...@inthemud.org> wrote:

> What is so insecure about Firefox in fullscreen mode?

Going into fullscreen mode transmits your screen resolution to the web
site; people who are both hiding their IPs and concerned about
fingerprinting don't want that info sent.

[WaltS48]

How about with the window maximized, not full screen mode?

[Caver1]

On 07/01/2015 10:00 AM, »Q« wrote:

Try this site without fullscreen.
http://whatsmy.browsersize.com/

--
Caver1

[Caver1]

On 07/01/2015 10:15 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
> On 07/01/2015 10:00 AM, »Q« wrote:
>> In
>> <news:mailman.1263.143575842...@lists.mozilla.org>,
>> Caver1 <cav...@inthemud.org> wrote:
>>
>>> What is so insecure about Firefox in fullscreen mode?
>>
>> Going into fullscreen mode transmits your screen resolution to the web
>> site; people who are both hiding their IPs and concerned about
>> fingerprinting don't want that info sent.
>>
>>
>
> How about with the window maximized, not full screen mode?
>

Your screen resolution is transmitted all the time.
Your browser window size can be determined no matter what it's size is.
http://whatsmy.browsersize.com/

--
Caver1

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Wed, 01 Jul 2015 08:47:57 -0400, WaltS48 wrote:

>> When the new Unified Autocomplete feature lands, search suggestions
>> will start showing up in the location bar (a.k.a. the url bar).
>

> I think the one click buttons will also show up. No?

If those two things are the case, then the URL bar will have
supplanted the Search bar (which makes sense, since they both
do the same thing, essentially, with respect to searches).

The one *problem* that you all have helped me identify is that
the URL bar search mechanism has been "infected" by the browser
distributor, for example:
/usr/lib/firefox/distribution/searchplugins/locale/en-US/google.xml

Luckily, that "infection" can be removed by deleting (on my system):
$ sudo rm -rf /usr/lib/firefox/distribution/

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Wed, 01 Jul 2015 20:50:02 +0800, Philip Chee wrote:

> You can just prepend a question mark e.g. "?battery"

WOW! That's great!
Who knew that?

This is perfect!
Thanks for taking the time to let us know.

I love it!

[»Q«]

In
<news:mailman.1298.143576019...@lists.mozilla.org>,

WaltS48 <thali...@EVOMERaim.com> wrote:

> On 07/01/2015 10:00 AM, »Q« wrote:
> > In
> > <news:mailman.1263.143575842...@lists.mozilla.org>,
> > Caver1 <cav...@inthemud.org> wrote:
> >
> >> What is so insecure about Firefox in fullscreen mode?
> >
> > Going into fullscreen mode transmits your screen resolution to the
> > web site; people who are both hiding their IPs and concerned about
> > fingerprinting don't want that info sent.
>
> How about with the window maximized, not full screen mode?

Without full-screen mode, sites can get both your window size and your
screen size. The concern about entering full-screen mode is only for
people who have already turned off that stuff (by disabling JS
completely or at least the relevant JS).

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

> Going into fullscreen mode transmits your screen resolution to the web
> site; people who are both hiding their IPs and concerned about
> fingerprinting don't want that info sent.

Exactly.

It's even worse on a laptop, because, if you can't go into fullscreen
mode, you're even *more* limited than if you could go into fullscreen
mode.

So, every quarter of an inch of wasted space hurts.

You'll note that my overall setup goal was:
1. Save space, critically in the up:down direction.
2. Save space, less critically, in the side:side direction.
2. Preserve privacy.

At this point, I don't think there is any more optimization that I
can do. Do you?
http://i60.tinypic.com/14smobc.jpg

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Wed, 01 Jul 2015 10:50:40 -0400, Caver1 wrote:

> Your screen resolution is transmitted all the time.
> Your browser window size can be determined no matter what it's size is.

The Tor Browser Bundle doesn't transmit the screen resolution.
http://whatsmy.browsersize.com

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

> Without full-screen mode, sites can get both your window size and your
> screen size. The concern about entering full-screen mode is only for
> people who have already turned off that stuff (by disabling JS
> completely or at least the relevant JS).

Here is what the Tor Browser Bundle reports for
http://whatsmy.browsersize.com
Browser window width: 1000
Browser window height: 900
Screen width: 1000
Screen height: 900
Screen color depth: 24

That's *not* my screen width and height.

If I maximize the TBB window, it reports:
Browser window width: 1799
Browser window height: 989
Screen width: 1799
Screen height: 989
Screen color depth: 24

That's a LOT CLOSER to my actual screen width and height.

[Karlheinz Fenstermacher]

On Wed, 01 Jul 2015 10:48:06 -0400, Caver1 wrote:

> Try this site without fullscreen.
> http://whatsmy.browsersize.com/

You're ahead of me.
I'm not there yet.

When I go there with my "Firefox" browser, it records my "true"
screen width and height.

But, when I go there with the Tor Browser Bundle Firefox, it
does NOT record the correct screen width and height.

Of course, I can make the screen size appear BIGGER (but not smaller)
than it actually is, by using xrandr just before opening the
browser, for example:
$ xrandr --output LVDS-0 --fb 2560x1440
$ xrandr --output LVDS-0 --fb 3840x2160
$ xrandr --output LVDS-0 --fb 8192x8192
etc.

And, I can use cvt to make it appear smaller (but not bigger):
$ cvt -r 1024 768
$ cvt -r 800 600
$ cvt -r 640 480
etc.

But, changing the screen is tedious and it does affect how things
show up (e.g., aspect ratio) on the screen.

I'd much rather limit the browser to the standard size that the
Tor Browser Bundle uses, and then to prevent the site from obtaining
the screen size.

I'm not sure what to turn off to prevent the site from obtaining
the screen size, but that's the next step in the process.

[Caver1]

On 07/01/2015 05:02 PM, Karlheinz Fenstermacher wrote:
>> Going into fullscreen mode transmits your screen resolution to the web
>> site; people who are both hiding their IPs and concerned about
>> fingerprinting don't want that info sent.

At Panopticlick being that I don't allow javascript there is no info on
my screen resolution
whether or not I'm in fullscreen mode.
BrowserSpy shows the same screen information whether or not I'm in
fullscreen mode.
IMHO it's better to have a finger print that constantly changing then
trying to hide all things
which in itself will be a unique fingerprint.

> Exactly.
>
> It's even worse on a laptop, because, if you can't go into fullscreen
> mode, you're even *more* limited than if you could go into fullscreen
> mode.
>
> So, every quarter of an inch of wasted space hurts.
>
> You'll note that my overall setup goal was:
> 1. Save space, critically in the up:down direction.
> 2. Save space, less critically, in the side:side direction.
> 2. Preserve privacy.
>
> At this point, I don't think there is any more optimization that I
> can do. Do you?
> http://i60.tinypic.com/14smobc.jpg
>

--
Caver1

[Caver1]

Does it show the same screen info over more then 1 time?
If it always shows the same then you are finger printable.
If you have other information constantly changing then it doesn't
matter what it shows for your screen size as none of the finger prints can
be tied to you.

--
Caver1