FF4 Preventing shutdown of windows

[Proto]

Ever since upgrading to FF4 I've had the annoying problem that if I
attempt to shut down the machine with FF4 running that windows complains
and blocks the shutdown. Only way is to click on the "force shutdown"
option.

This is getting extremely annoying and happens over a good 3/4 of the
time, countless times I've clicked shut down and left the machine only
to come back hours later with windows waiting for me to "force" a
shutdown. Never had this problem with any previous version of FF.

I've tried disabling addons but they dont appear to be the cause of it,
anything I can try? (other than having to make sure FF is closed before
shutdown)

[Peter Taylor]

You leave programs open and don't close them before shutting down?

--
Peter Taylor

[Ron Hunter]

The solution is extremely simple. Shut down Firefox normally before you
do a system shutdown. You should always shut down all applications
manually before shutting down your system to avoid data loss. You can
also set Windows to shut down applications after a variable (user set)
delay. Default is 20 seconds. It appears someone has changed that
setting on your system.

[Proto]

Yes, but only browsers, as there aren't any open documents to lose, I'm
certainly not the only one and IME most people don't bother shutting
down browsers.

All previous versions of FF and other browsers shut down without
incident so what is so important in FF4 that it has to have the last
word and prevent shutdown? There is just no good (or obvious) reason
for it to do so.

Its either a bug or just a poor design change IMO and is not helpful at all.

[Proto]

Where do I change this delay setting? I've tried looking for it on the
web and found nothing useful.

[Peter Taylor]

I wouldn't know as I don't do what you do. I close all open programs
before shutting down. Always have, always will.

--
Peter Taylor

[EE]

It is not poor design. You should not shut down the computer with
Windows running. Windows gives you a means of shutting down safely by
exiting Windows first. You should use that. You could damage files on
the computer just pulling the plug or turning off the power bar without
exiting properly.

[Proto]

I'm not pulling the plug (How the hell would a program stop me from
cutting power anyway??), im doing a controlled shutdown of windows, and
why when for all these years and versions is it good design to change
something and make a program not cooperate with the o/s when told to
shutdown?

If there is a good reason for it, I would accept it but this program
isnt doing anything critical, its not a service or other part of the o/s
its a web browser, its a mere application if told to shutdown it should
shut down gracefully, quickly and without preventing a system shutting down.

[Cy Burnot]

Proto has written on 5/22/2011 5:24 PM:

You should ask this in a Windows support group.

[Ron Hunter]

FF keeps several files open any time it is running. If you don't close
those files properly by shutting down the program, then you may lose
data, or the files may become corrupt. Always shut down any application
that doesn't reduce itself to the 'notification area (tray)' before
shutting down Windows. Programs that have the ability to 'minimize to
tray' are designed to shut down properly when Windows requests them to
do so. Applications are not designed that way. Shutting the computer
off without properly ending Windows is also prone to causing unreadable
disk sectors, which can result in needing to reformat, and reload
everything. This happened to my wife's computer just a couple of months
ago.
Windows can force an application to shut down, but this may result in
unclosed files, and trouble later.

[Ron Hunter]

First, forcing shutdown is NOT a good practice. Second, FF does NOT
stop the system from forcing shutdown, but you CAN set the system not to
force shutdown, or set the time it waits before doing that.
In all probability you have an extension or plugin that is refusing to
shut down.

[eivind_666]

> It is not poor design.  You should not shut down the computer with
> Windows running.  Windows gives you a means of shutting down safely by
> exiting Windows first.  You should use that.  You could damage files on
> the computer just pulling the plug or turning off the power bar without
> exiting properly.

This and other answers of the same nature are not addressing the
problem at all.

Why try to put the responsibility on the original poster for
"wrongdoing"?

It is obvious that the behaviour described is a new FF4 bug, because
it works fine under the same OSs in FF3.x.

The simple fact is that FF4 now blocks windows from shutdown, which it
should not do unless there was a *good* reason to.

FF4 is not (in general) a document editor that needs to ask the user
any save confirmations or similar before shutdown.

I am seeing the exact same regression in behaviour, and it doesnt
inspire continuing use of FF. :(

[Leeq]

I definitely agree with this person.
Making the user to close all programs before shutting down the
computer is pointless.

In "process" point of view, there are a lot of services and background
programs(e.g. Dropbox) as well that are running when the user hits
shutdown button. Obviously, the user is not responsible to close all
those "processes". The shutdown button does that.
The OS is designed to send stop signals to all programs when shutdown
request is triggered which expects all the programs to close
themselves.
The program should block *only* in critical conditions, e.g. asking to
save.

Firefox, however, does not obey this fundamental rule and refuses to
close itself without any good reason.
If it has good reason, it must show to the user why it refuses to
close.
This is definitely a bug and I hope it gets fixed as soon as possible.

[Simon Sheehan]

> _______________________________________________
>

I am even experiencing this on Nightly. Is there a bug report for it yet? I recall this not happening in 3.x ever, so it surprises me.

[Chris Ilias]

On 11-06-21 5:40 AM, Leeq wrote:
> I definitely agree with this person.
> Making the user to close all programs before shutting down the
> computer is pointless.
>
> In "process" point of view, there are a lot of services and background
> programs(e.g. Dropbox) as well that are running when the user hits
> shutdown button. Obviously, the user is not responsible to close all
> those "processes". The shutdown button does that.
> The OS is designed to send stop signals to all programs when shutdown
> request is triggered which expects all the programs to close
> themselves.
> The program should block *only* in critical conditions, e.g. asking to
> save.
>
> Firefox, however, does not obey this fundamental rule and refuses to
> close itself without any good reason.
> If it has good reason, it must show to the user why it refuses to
> close.
> This is definitely a bug and I hope it gets fixed as soon as possible.

I just tested it on Windows 7, and shutting down Windows closes Firefox
just fine.
Screencast: <http://ilias.ca/screencasts/closingwindows.swf> [6.8M]

Have you tried it with extensions disabled? Maybe one of them is
preventing Firefox from shutting down.

--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator

[Ron Hunter]

Same here, but I am using FF5. I would suspect a problem with an extension.

[paul...@gmail.com]

This thread is quite old, but I'd like to post here because I am STILL having problems with Firefox preventing Windows 7 from shutting down.

The responses in this thread, with respect, typify what is going wrong with Firefox and Mozilla and why Firefox is in danger of becoming irrelevant.

It is NOT the case that a web browser should EVER stop windows from shutting down. It is completely ridiculous to suggest that users must manually shut every window which is open before shutting down. E.g. if I am using Windows Media Player to play music, when I select "shut down" from the start menu WMP simply gracefully closes. A web browser should do exactly the same thing.

Not only does Firefox stop Windows from shutting down, but it offers no explanation for why it is doing this. If, e.g., I have a document open in Notepad, I will get the "Do you want to save changes?" prompt when I shut down the PC. Firefox gives no such prompt, yet still interferes with shutting down.

The responses here also display an ignorance of what happens when you shut down Windows. It does not simply kill all processes - instead it asks each running process to end itself in essentially the same way that occurs when the user selects "exit" from within a particular program or hits the "X" symbol on the top right. Firefox is ignoring this request from the system.

This is a bug. It needs to be fixed.

[Chris Ilias]

On 11-12-27 12:37 AM, paul...@gmail.com wrote:
> This thread is quite old, but I'd like to post here because I am
> STILL having problems with Firefox preventing Windows 7 from shutting
> down.
>
> The responses in this thread, with respect, typify what is going
> wrong with Firefox and Mozilla and why Firefox is in danger of
> becoming irrelevant.

Before I answer, it should be clarified that the people in here are
support community volunteers.

> It is NOT the case that a web browser should EVER stop windows from
> shutting down. It is completely ridiculous to suggest that users
> must manually shut every window which is open before shutting down.
> E.g. if I am using Windows Media Player to play music, when I select
> "shut down" from the start menu WMP simply gracefully closes. A web
> browser should do exactly the same thing.
>
> Not only does Firefox stop Windows from shutting down, but it offers
> no explanation for why it is doing this. If, e.g., I have a document
> open in Notepad, I will get the "Do you want to save changes?" prompt
> when I shut down the PC. Firefox gives no such prompt, yet still
> interferes with shutting down.
>
> The responses here also display an ignorance of what happens when you
> shut down Windows. It does not simply kill all processes - instead
> it asks each running process to end itself in essentially the same
> way that occurs when the user selects "exit" from within a particular
> program or hits the "X" symbol on the top right. Firefox is ignoring
> this request from the system.
>
> This is a bug. It needs to be fixed.

If you go to Firefox-->Help-->Restart_with_Add-ons_Disabled, does the
problem still occur? If not, the cause is probably an extension. See
<http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/troubleshooting%20extensions%20and%20themes>.

[Ron Hunter]

I agree that applications should not prevent Windows from shutting down,
and on my system, FF doesn't do this. One reason is that, by habit, I
shut down all running applications before rebooting. On the extremely
rare occasions when I have to shut down because something has taken
control of the system, and won't let go, the alternative (and it's NOT a
good one), is to power down the system manually. I have never had a
symptom that you describe. The only application, strangely, that ever
seems to impede the shutdown of Win7 here is Windows Update. And that
one does terminate after the 20 second delay.
I am not sure what may be causing your problem, but I am quite sure it
is NOT an FF problem, but rather something interacting with Firefox,
and/or settings on your computer. By default, Win7 will force a
shutdown of applications after 20 seconds if they don't respond to the
shutdown message.

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

paul.rhum wrote:

> This thread is quite old, but I'd like to post here because I am STILL
> having problems with Firefox preventing Windows 7 from shutting down.

My question is why are you still using Firefox version 4? The current
version is 9.0.1. Perhaps it will work correctly with your Win 7.

You aren't going to find much "bug-fixing" with the ancient v.4.

--
-bts
-This space for rent, but the price is high

[Jay Garcia]

On 26.12.2011 23:37, paul...@gmail.com wrote:

Saying it doesn't do this here isn't going to fix your problem. However,
my one question so far is how do you determine that it's Firefox that is
causing Windows to not shut down. You said there is no response from
Firefox like there is in other applications, etc. So how do you make the
determination in that case?

--
Jay Garcia - www.ufaq.org - Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Thunderbird
Mozilla Contribute Coordinator Team - www.mozilla.org/contribute/
Mozilla Mozillian Member - www.mozillians.org
Mozilla Contributor Member - www.mozilla.org/credits/

[Ron Hunter]

On 12/27/2011 7:43 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 26.12.2011 23:37, paul...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> This thread is quite old, but I'd like to post here because I am STILL having problems with Firefox preventing Windows 7 from shutting down.
>>
>> The responses in this thread, with respect, typify what is going wrong with Firefox and Mozilla and why Firefox is in danger of becoming irrelevant.
>>
>> It is NOT the case that a web browser should EVER stop windows from shutting down. It is completely ridiculous to suggest that users must manually shut every window which is open before shutting down. E.g. if I am using Windows Media Player to play music, when I select "shut down" from the start menu WMP simply gracefully closes. A web browser should do exactly the same thing.
>>
>> Not only does Firefox stop Windows from shutting down, but it offers no explanation for why it is doing this. If, e.g., I have a document open in Notepad, I will get the "Do you want to save changes?" prompt when I shut down the PC. Firefox gives no such prompt, yet still interferes with shutting down.
>>
>> The responses here also display an ignorance of what happens when you shut down Windows. It does not simply kill all processes - instead it asks each running process to end itself in essentially the same way that occurs when the user selects "exit" from within a particular program or hits the "X" symbol on the top right. Firefox is ignoring this request from the system.
>>
>> This is a bug. It needs to be fixed.
>
> Saying it doesn't do this here isn't going to fix your problem. However,
> my one question so far is how do you determine that it's Firefox that is
> causing Windows to not shut down. You said there is no response from
> Firefox like there is in other applications, etc. So how do you make the
> determination in that case?
>

Jay,
Win7 TELLS YOU what application it is waiting on to close. The
screen darkens, and then a list of applications not closed appears in
the middle of the screen.

[Jay Garcia]

My Win7 (I know how it works) doesn't say anything about Firefox
whatsoever, that's why I asked him as he said that Windows doesn't
mention anything about FF or so that's the way I read it.

[baris...@gmail.com]

This problem still exists for me. Firefox is the only and one application which prevents system shutdown. It is definitely annoying "bug". (I say bug, you say user fault; IDC). It is the only reason that I don't use it as my default browser because I am using my pc remotely and quite annoying that I must close firefox first then shutdown computer.

My computer shuts down properly and doesn't damage any application files when Winamp, Warcraft III, notepad++, MSN, Skype etc.. running. Only Firefox has this problem.

[Ron Hunter]

You want Firefox to do something for you that you should do yourself.
Second, unless you have changed it, Win7 7 will shut down after a delay,
or you can (at risk of losing data) click on 'force restart'.

[Chris Ilias]

[Scott Jackson]

On Jan 13, 12:14 pm, Ron Hunter <rphun...@charter.net> wrote:

Ok first that is your opinion. Personally I prefer to not have to
babysit my computer. When I click shutdown and the processes are
getting a shutdown signal, they better shutdown unless there is a
problem that requires my attention (which there doesn't appear to be).
Second, on a fresh install of Win7 (I just installed less than a week
ago, and am having the same problem as my old Win7 install) Windows
does NOT automatically force shut down after a delay. If you go to
bed and come back, it will STILL be sitting there waiting for you to
force FF to shutdown. If you click cancel FF is frozen and you have
to force close it and open it back up again to use it.

On to a solution. I looked at http://www.makeuseof.com/answers/force-shutdown-windows-7-due-program-running/
and one of the things to do is to set HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM
\CurrentControlSet\Control\WaitToKillServiceTimeout but it was already
there for me. So I guess Win7 does try to shutdown services if they
cause the computer to not shutdown after a certain amount of time.
The second thing it recommends is to set HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control
Panel\Desktop\WaitToKillAppTimeout which was not set by default on my
computer, which is why it wasn't automatically closing apps after a
given amount of time. Setting it appears to make it so that FF is
force closed after a given amount of time now. I would just recommend
setting the value to at least 20000 (20 seconds) so that if something
actually does need your attention (such as a word document not having
been saved yet) it won't force close it before you notice it.