Moving the Firefox browser cache?

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willshak

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Jul 27, 2010, 10:43:33 AM7/27/10
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In MS Internet Explorer, it is possible to move the IE browser cache to
another drive and folder (Tools/Internet Options/General tab/Browsing
History/Settings/Move Folder.

Currently, the FF folder is on the C: drive in Documents and settings.
I want to free up some space on my C: drive and move that folder to my
D: drive.
Can it be done, or if not, can it be considered in a new version of FF?

--
Bill
Windows XP Home sp3
Firefox 3.6.8
Thunderbird 2.0.0.24
(tried 3, went back to 2)

Michael 'Coce' Köhler

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Jul 27, 2010, 11:07:35 AM7/27/10
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Hi,

> Currently, the FF folder is on the C: drive in Documents and settings.
> I want to free up some space on my C: drive and move that folder to my
> D: drive.
> Can it be done, or if not, can it be considered in a new version of FF?

Moving the Firefox cache should be possible as described here
<http://kb.mozillazine.org/Browser.cache.disk.parent_directory>.


Regards

Michael

Message has been deleted

Jay Garcia

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Jul 27, 2010, 1:41:02 PM7/27/10
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On 27.07.2010 09:43, willshak wrote:

--- Original Message ---

> In MS Internet Explorer, it is possible to move the IE browser cache to
> another drive and folder (Tools/Internet Options/General tab/Browsing
> History/Settings/Move Folder.
>
> Currently, the FF folder is on the C: drive in Documents and settings.
> I want to free up some space on my C: drive and move that folder to my
> D: drive.
> Can it be done, or if not, can it be considered in a new version of FF?
>

First of all, locate your current cache directory: about:cache

Then, create a new /cache/ directory where you want it located.

In about:config, type browser.cache.disk.parent_directory in the filter
window, then right-click on the line, select "Modify" and enter the new
path to your cache directory.

--
*Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*
www.ufaq.org
Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird

David McRitchie

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Jul 27, 2010, 2:24:47 PM7/27/10
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Good idea to clear you cache at the end of the session if you are on
high speed access, and since you will be moving it, clear out current
Firefox cache before moving.

Firefox: (now) Tools -> Options -> Advanced -> Network -> clear now.
(FF end of session) img338.imageshack.us/i/clearcache.png/

Internet Explorer: http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/delcache.htm

Before reassigning cache directory, note old location using
about:cache as suggested by Jay. You will want to clear that out
later manually when Firefox is down.

Even when told to clear cache at the end of the session, browsers
don't clear cache, if they terminate, so you will find old files and
old data. So you want to also clear out your cache manually
at times -- even if it is just lots of empty folders.

When you name a directory for your Firefox cache, suggest including
the profile name as a subdirectory within, because you want a different
cache for each profile.

While on the subject of cache, you can best view your Firefox cache
with an extension.

CacheViewer
"This extension is a GUI Front-end of "about:cache".
Allows searching and sorting memory and disk cache files."
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2489/

--
HTH,
David McRitchie, extensions I use are briefly documented on my site
Firefox Custom: http://www.mvps.org/dmcritchie/firefox/firefox.htm


Greywolf

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Jul 27, 2010, 4:47:49 PM7/27/10
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On 27/07/2010 10:43, willshak wrote:
> In MS Internet Explorer, it is possible to move the IE browser cache to
> another drive and folder (Tools/Internet Options/General tab/Browsing
> History/Settings/Move Folder.
>
> Currently, the FF folder is on the C: drive in Documents and settings.
> I want to free up some space on my C: drive and move that folder to my
> D: drive.
> Can it be done, or if not, can it be considered in a new version of FF?
>

Fairly simple to do, as others have explained.

However, could you satisfy my curiosity: why do you want to move the cache?

wolf k.

Jay Garcia

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Jul 27, 2010, 6:51:16 PM7/27/10
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On 27.07.2010 15:47, Greywolf wrote:

--- Original Message ---

Because, as he said:

"I want to free up some space on my C: drive and move that folder to my
D: drive."

I have my cache directory on an external terrabyte drive. I try to keep
only program files on my main internal drive, the reason being is that
data is always handy on an external drive in case you have to take it
with you in the event that evacuation is necessary here in south
Louisiana. Prorams can always be re-installed but once data is lost it's
gone.

Tarkus

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Jul 27, 2010, 7:11:09 PM7/27/10
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Of course, if he suffers a crash (FF or OS), he's going to lose that
cache anyway, so that would be the least of my concerns. Cache data is
not gone once it's lost; it only needs to be re-downloaded.

Terry R.

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Jul 27, 2010, 9:10:48 PM7/27/10
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On 7/27/2010 4:11 PM On a whim, Tarkus pounded out on the keyboard

But it still takes up space. And that is what the OP is trying to free
up on C: to another drive.


Terry R.
--
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

Terry R.

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Jul 27, 2010, 9:19:43 PM7/27/10
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On 7/27/2010 7:43 AM On a whim, willshak pounded out on the keyboard

> In MS Internet Explorer, it is possible to move the IE browser cache to
> another drive and folder (Tools/Internet Options/General tab/Browsing
> History/Settings/Move Folder.
>
> Currently, the FF folder is on the C: drive in Documents and settings.
> I want to free up some space on my C: drive and move that folder to my
> D: drive.
> Can it be done, or if not, can it be considered in a new version of FF?
>

Hi Will,

I have always had only my OS's on a C: drive, data on D:, and programs
on E:. They span three different hard drives, so I'm not using one drive
partitioned. The cache is a very small portion of space taken up on a
hard drive, unless the user has it set unusually high. Either of these
methods will give you MUCH more free space that worrying about a cache
folder.

If your My Documents is already located on D:, you could:
1. Move your paging file to D: also, which usually is located on C:
Right click on My Computer, Properties, Advanced tab,
Performance section click Settings, Advanced tab,
Virtual memory section click Change.
Click on D: and select "System managed size" and click Set
Click on C: and select "No paging file" and click Set
Disregard message about dump files.
You may have to reboot

You could also reduce the size allocated to the Recycle Bin (right click
on RB, click Properties, under Global tab choose "Configure drives
independently", then reduce the size of C: as needed.

Terry R.

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Jul 27, 2010, 9:20:53 PM7/27/10
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On 7/27/2010 6:19 PM On a whim, Terry R. pounded out on the keyboard

Sorry, I looked at your email address and wrote Will when it should have
been Bill...

Jay Garcia

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Jul 27, 2010, 9:51:08 PM7/27/10
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--- Original Message ---

Been my experience that if FF crashes only the memory cache is gone, not
the disk cache.

David McRitchie

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Jul 27, 2010, 10:18:57 PM7/27/10
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"Tarkus"
> Of course, if he suffers a crash (FF or OS), he's going to lose that
> cache anyway, so that would be the least of my concerns. Cache data is
> not gone once it's lost; it only needs to be re-downloaded.

Another reason to move cache out of the profile is so that you do not have to
back it up when you back up all of your user data -- which includes FF profiles.
You also have better control over it to delete old stuff if you know exactly where it is.

Tarkus

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Jul 28, 2010, 12:22:21 AM7/28/10
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On 7/27/2010 6:51 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 27.07.2010 18:11, Tarkus wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> > Of course, if he suffers a crash (FF or OS), he's going to lose that
>> > cache anyway, so that would be the least of my concerns. Cache data is
>> > not gone once it's lost; it only needs to be re-downloaded.
> Been my experience that if FF crashes only the memory cache is gone, not
> the disk cache.

Guess you've never used a dialup connection.

Or about:cache.

FF does this on purpose, though there used to be an extension that would
defeat that "feature". There is another way, but it's more hassle than
it's worth, IMO.

BTW, I just tested this by killing FF from the Task Manager. Sure
enough, the FF 3.6.8 disk cache went from nearly full to empty upon
restarting.

Tarkus

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Jul 28, 2010, 12:28:04 AM7/28/10
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On 7/27/2010 7:18 PM, David McRitchie wrote:
> "Tarkus"
>> Of course, if he suffers a crash (FF or OS), he's going to lose that
>> cache anyway, so that would be the least of my concerns. Cache data
>> is not gone once it's lost; it only needs to be re-downloaded.
>
> Another reason to move cache out of the profile is so that you do not
> have to back it up when you back up all of your user data -- which
> includes FF profiles.

If you use MozBackup, you can choose what you want to back up. Of
course, you may want to use a more automated method. Most of my
important stuff stays backed up via Firefox Sync, so I really don't need
frequent regular backups.

> You also have better control over it to delete old stuff if you know
> exactly where it is.

Or just kill the FF process from the Task Manager. ;)

Fox on the run

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Jul 28, 2010, 5:06:38 AM7/28/10
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Based on testing I did to answer a question on that issue (loosing
cache on crash - see http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.firefox/browse_thread/thread/a3e74b0fe5bc4a9e#),
I've found that all your cash gets deleted on restart if FF crashes.

JB

Jay Garcia

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Jul 28, 2010, 8:15:09 AM7/28/10
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--- Original Message ---

You're right, never used a computer before. Have no idea what I'm doing
.. <sigh>

Jay Garcia

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Jul 28, 2010, 8:18:23 AM7/28/10
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On 28.07.2010 04:06, Fox on the run wrote:

--- Original Message ---

> On Jul 27, 11:51 pm, Jay Garcia <J...@JayNOSPAMGarcia.com> wrote:
>> On 27.07.2010 18:11, Tarkus wrote:
>>
>> --- Original Message ---
>>
>> > Of course, if he suffers a crash (FF or OS), he's going to lose that
>> > cache anyway, so that would be the least of my concerns. Cache data is
>> > not gone once it's lost; it only needs to be re-downloaded.
>>
>> Been my experience that if FF crashes only the memory cache is gone, not
>> the disk cache.
>>
>> --
>> *Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*www.ufaq.org
>> Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird
>
> Based on testing I did to answer a question on that issue (loosing
> cache on crash - see http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.firefox/browse_thread/thread/a3e74b0fe5bc4a9e#),
> I've found that all your cash gets deleted on restart if FF crashes.
>
> JB

And in all my testing I've never loosed cash before if it's moved to a
non-default location. I would imagine that it all depends on the nature
of the crash and if you have enabled to delete cash on exit.

Greywolf

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Jul 28, 2010, 9:19:02 AM7/28/10
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On 27/07/2010 18:51, Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 27.07.2010 15:47, Greywolf wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> On 27/07/2010 10:43, willshak wrote:
>>> In MS Internet Explorer, it is possible to move the IE browser cache to
>>> another drive and folder (Tools/Internet Options/General tab/Browsing
>>> History/Settings/Move Folder.
>>>
>>> Currently, the FF folder is on the C: drive in Documents and settings.
>>> I want to free up some space on my C: drive and move that folder to my
>>> D: drive.
>>> Can it be done, or if not, can it be considered in a new version of FF?
>>>
>>
>> Fairly simple to do, as others have explained.
>>
>> However, could you satisfy my curiosity: why do you want to move the cache?
>>
>> wolf k.
>
> Because, as he said:
>
> "I want to free up some space on my C: drive and move that folder to my
> D: drive."

Yes, but it's much easier just to reduce the max cache size. You don't
need to _keep_ any of that stuff. It's not permanent data. It just
speeds up switching between tabs.

> I have my cache directory on an external terabyte drive. I try to keep


> only program files on my main internal drive, the reason being is that
> data is always handy on an external drive in case you have to take it
> with you in the event that evacuation is necessary here in south

> Louisiana. Programs can always be re-installed but once data is lost it's
> gone.
>

Very sound precautions, but as I said, the cache isn't permanent data.

Peace,
wolf k.

Jay Garcia

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Jul 28, 2010, 9:25:04 AM7/28/10
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--- Original Message ---

My oldest cache entry is exactly 43 days old, permanent enough for my
purposes. It all depends on a user's particular useage that is
important, YMMV. Cache is as permanent as you want it to be or not. With
today's connection speeds, keeping cache isn't all that important.
However, cache in conjunction with cookies can be a bonus in some
instances, especially on some of the photography sites I regularly
visit. Like I said, it is only important to the user who uses the
functionality.

Greywolf

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Jul 28, 2010, 9:27:51 AM7/28/10
to


Yeah, but -

Why do you want to keep cache data? All browsers I've used have a cache
size setting. FF's default is peanuts, just 50MB.

IF OP is keeping all his cache data, of course he's using up disk space.
I've noticed that after a day or two, the cache here is around 2MB -
peanut crumbs. ;-)

So I'm still puzzled just what OP expects to gain. My guess is that OP
has a few other problems with his system, and moving the cache is not
going to provide much relief.

Peace,
wolf k.

Pete Holsberg

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Jul 28, 2010, 5:22:27 PM7/28/10
to Firefox user help
Greywolf has written on 7/28/2010 9:19 AM:

> On 27/07/2010 18:51, Jay Garcia wrote:
> <snip>

>
> > Because, as he said:
> >
> > "I want to free up some space on my C: drive and move that folder to my
> > D: drive."
>
> Yes, but it's much easier just to reduce the max cache size. You don't
> need to _keep_ any of that stuff. It's not permanent data. It just
> speeds up switching between tabs.
>

I've set my cache to 0 and don't seem to be missing anything!

--
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ

He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes;
he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever.
- Chinese Proverb

Ron Hunter

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Jul 28, 2010, 8:12:55 PM7/28/10
to
On 7/28/2010 4:22 PM, Pete Holsberg wrote:
> Greywolf has written on 7/28/2010 9:19 AM:
>> On 27/07/2010 18:51, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> > Because, as he said:
>> >
>> > "I want to free up some space on my C: drive and move that folder to my
>> > D: drive."
>>
>> Yes, but it's much easier just to reduce the max cache size. You don't
>> need to _keep_ any of that stuff. It's not permanent data. It just
>> speeds up switching between tabs.
>
> I've set my cache to 0 and don't seem to be missing anything!
>
For those on broadband, the disk cache isn't a benefit.

sprockets

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Jul 28, 2010, 9:17:25 PM7/28/10
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On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:25:04 -0500, Jay Garcia <J...@jaynospamgarcia.com>
wrote:

When I used to use Netscape 3.01 the first thing I did was put the cache
file on a separate drive partition so as not to fragment the C:drive as
much.
Thats going way back...

HTH,
sprockets
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Tarkus

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Jul 29, 2010, 12:49:00 AM7/29/10
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On 7/28/2010 5:15 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 27.07.2010 23:22, Tarkus wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> > On 7/27/2010 6:51 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> >> On 27.07.2010 18:11, Tarkus wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> --- Original Message ---
>>> >>
>>>>> >>> > Of course, if he suffers a crash (FF or OS), he's going to lose that
>>>>> >>> > cache anyway, so that would be the least of my concerns. Cache
>>>> >>> data is
>>>>> >>> > not gone once it's lost; it only needs to be re-downloaded.
>>> >> Been my experience that if FF crashes only the memory cache is gone, not
>>> >> the disk cache.
>> >
>> > Guess you've never used a dialup connection.
>> >
>> > Orabout:cache.

>> >
>> > FF does this on purpose, though there used to be an extension that would
>> > defeat that "feature". There is another way, but it's more hassle than
>> > it's worth, IMO.
>> >
>> > BTW, I just tested this by killing FF from the Task Manager. Sure
>> > enough, the FF 3.6.8 disk cache went from nearly full to empty upon
>> > restarting.
> You're right, never used a computer before. Have no idea what I'm doing
> ..<sigh>

Sorry if I came off condescending, but I think if you test it as I did,
you'll come up with the same results.

Tarkus

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Jul 29, 2010, 12:58:07 AM7/29/10
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On 7/28/2010 5:18 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> And in all my testing I've never loosed cash before if it's moved to a
> non-default location. I would imagine that it all depends on the nature
> of the crash and if you have enabled to delete cash on exit.

I've never tried a non-default location, but I would think it wouldn't
make a difference, because it works that way by design. It's not a bug.

As for deleting cache on exit, again, I don't see how that would make
any difference, because with a crash, that doesn't come into play,
either way.

That said, some people have it set to delete cache on exit, but to
prompt them. That allows them to save the cache (if desired) after a
crash, but I consider that more hassle than it's worth, assuming you
don't really want to delete the cache. If I was still on dialup, I
might think otherwise, though.

Tarkus

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Jul 29, 2010, 1:01:14 AM7/29/10
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Depends on the speed of your broadband, and the speed of the sites you
visit.

Tarkus

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Jul 29, 2010, 1:05:31 AM7/29/10
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On 7/28/2010 6:19 AM, Greywolf wrote:
> It's not permanent data. It just speeds up switching between tabs.

Actually, it speeds up the loading of tabs (on previously visited
sites). It has nothing to do with switching between tabs. At least the
disk cache doesn't; the memory cache might be a different matter.

And it can be pretty permanent if you regularly load certain pages every
day. The graphics from those pages will likely remain in your cache
indefinitely, until you have a crash.

Ron Hunter

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Jul 29, 2010, 3:48:19 AM7/29/10
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If you have minimal speed broadband, and visit highly graphic sites,
then you might see some degradation, maybe.

Jay Garcia

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Jul 29, 2010, 9:00:24 AM7/29/10
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--- Original Message ---

I did test it by going to processes and ending the task - disk cache
remains unscathed.

On a lighter note, I started with a 300 baud modem Apple 2c and a 2e
dialup connection through GeNIE many moons ago. How many of you folks
remember GeNIE ?? ;-)

And before that admining a major medical facility running VAX / VMS ..
How 'bout that? and wayyy before that installing/configuring the very
first GE PAC4000 mainframe with 3 slave units at Union Carbide in 1967. ;-)

Ron Hunter

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Jul 29, 2010, 9:21:09 AM7/29/10
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Well, the first computer I saw as an IBM 605 (I think that was the
model). It was brand spanking new at Union Carbide in Texas City, in
1957. It had 4000 vacuum tubes (pentodes), and had to be kept within 3
degrees of 65 degrees or the tubes began to explode. Input and output
was to cards to be printed on an accounting machine. First computer I
operated was IBM 1620 at Alvin Jr. College in Alvin, Tx., in 1963. And,
you bet I remember Genie.
Also, FidoNet, and lots of local BBS, one of which I ran for 2 years.

Greywolf

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Jul 29, 2010, 10:23:33 AM7/29/10
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On 29/07/2010 09:21, Ron Hunter wrote:
> On 7/29/2010 8:00 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
[...]

>> On a lighter note, I started with a 300 baud modem Apple 2c and a 2e
>> dialup connection through GeNIE many moons ago. How many of you folks
>> remember GeNIE ?? ;-)
>>
>> And before that admining a major medical facility running VAX / VMS ..
>> How 'bout that? and wayyy before that installing/configuring the very
>> first GE PAC4000 mainframe with 3 slave units at Union Carbide in
>> 1967. ;-)
>>
>
> Well, the first computer I saw as an IBM 605 (I think that was the
> model). It was brand spanking new at Union Carbide in Texas City, in
> 1957. It had 4000 vacuum tubes (pentodes), and had to be kept within 3
> degrees of 65 degrees or the tubes began to explode. Input and output
> was to cards to be printed on an accounting machine. First computer I
> operated was IBM 1620 at Alvin Jr. College in Alvin, Tx., in 1963. And,
> you bet I remember Genie.
> Also, FidoNet, and lots of local BBS, one of which I ran for 2 years.
>

Nostalgia time! ;-)

My first encounter with commuters was in a machine language programming
course in 1963 or thereabouts, using an IBM 360. The university bought
it secondhand for $250,000, which was a bargain, I guess. ;-) We filled
in little boxes on those ubiquitous IBM cards, the data was transferred
to a paper tape, then the program ran. Usually. We started with 2-bit
binary op codes with 4-bit address codes, then "graduated" to
alphanumeric "mnemonics".

Many years later, I took another machine language course, for a Vax this
time, 'cause I needed some paper proof I was competent to head our
Communications Dept, which our principal decided should include
computing. (The Math head wasn't exactly pleased by this). I'd become
the unofficial maintainer of the staff-room PC (Windows on MSDOS 6.2x),
and helped maintain the classroom computers (all Commodores PETs), and
later assisted in maintaining the network (we had two rooms of PCs by
then.) All unpaid of course. Much later, the Board hired an IT tech. I
wrote a marks recording/calculation program for myself in Comal, because
none of the available ones did what I wanted. I've also dabbled in
Fortran, BASIC, and Cobol. Forgotten 99.99% of it....

Them wuz the daze.

wolf k.

Pete Holsberg

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Jul 29, 2010, 12:41:09 PM7/29/10
to Firefox user help
Jay Garcia has written on 7/29/2010 9:00 AM:
> <snip>

> On a lighter note, I started with a 300 baud modem Apple 2c and a 2e
> dialup connection through GeNIE many moons ago. How many of you folks
> remember GeNIE ?? ;-)
>

I even remember my CompuServe account -- 70240,334 !!



--
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ

A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in
such a way that you actually look forward to the trip.
- Anon

Pete Holsberg

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Jul 29, 2010, 12:43:31 PM7/29/10
to Firefox user help
Ron Hunter has written on 7/29/2010 9:21 AM:

> Well, the first computer I saw as an IBM 605 (I think that was the
> model). It was brand spanking new at Union Carbide in Texas City, in
> 1957.

The first two I saw were in 1959 -- a DEC paper-tape minicomputer and an
EAI 16-31R.

--
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ

Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day;
teach a person to use the Internet and they won't
bother you for weeks.
- Anon

sprockets

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Jul 29, 2010, 2:10:41 PM7/29/10
to
On Thursday July 29 2010 at 11:43:31 AM Pete Holsberg wrote in
mozilla.support.firefox:

> Ron Hunter has written on 7/29/2010 9:21 AM:
>> Well, the first computer I saw as an IBM 605 (I think that was the
>> model). It was brand spanking new at Union Carbide in Texas City, in
>> 1957.
>
> The first two I saw were in 1959 -- a DEC paper-tape minicomputer and an
> EAI 16-31R.
>

ok ok bragging rights...

--
Using Firefox3.6.7 on Win2kProSP4 512MB RAM

Tarkus

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Jul 29, 2010, 1:57:41 PM7/29/10
to

Interesting. I'll have to try it using a different drive.

> On a lighter note, I started with a 300 baud modem Apple 2c and a 2e
> dialup connection through GeNIE many moons ago. How many of you folks
> remember GeNIE ??;-)

I used both GEnie and CompuServe with a 300 baud modem on an Atari
800XL, and remember typing in programs out of Compute! magazine, with no
way to save them after I was done. :)

Fox on the run

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Jul 29, 2010, 10:12:39 PM7/29/10
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> <snip>

>
> --
> *Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*www.ufaq.org
> Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird

What version of FF are you testing this on?

When ending a process in MS Windows, does that simulate a proper crash
of Firefox or does Windows make an attempt to shut it down cleanly
first? I did my testing in Linux where I issued the kill command to
kill the process. When you do this in Windows, does the file
sessionstore.js persist in your FF user profile folder? If so, does
it show a state of "running" near the end of that plain text file? If
it does not exist, it's doing a clean shutdown. If it does exist but
shows a state of stopped, it's a clean shut down and you are opting to
save your tabs from your last session.

Can you also check the _cache_map_ file as per the other thread to see
if the dirty bit is set in it when you "crash" FF. If it's not set,
then again Windows is not killing the process, but shutting it down
properly (if that fails, then it would kill it).

Whether you choose to clear your cache on exit or not is irrelevant.
The cache is cleared on restart when the dirty bit is set. The dirty
bit is set when FF runs and only gets turned off when a clean shutdown
takes place. So on a crash, it remains dirty. FF is designed to
clear the cache if the dirty bit is set presumably to prevent a
potentially corrupt cache from being used.

JB

Tarkus

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Jul 29, 2010, 10:33:01 PM7/29/10
to

That's an excellent point that I overlooked.

If you tell Windows' Task Manager to shut down a program from the
Applications tab, it first sends a message to the program, trying to get
it to shut down cleanly. If it doesn't respond, then it will ask if you
want to force it to shut down. But if the program is not locked up, it
will generally shut down normally.

However, if you you shut a program down from the Processes tab, it
simply kills the program, in effect, simulating a crash. It's
immediate, and the program is none the wiser.

> I did my testing in Linux where I issued the kill command to
> kill the process. When you do this in Windows, does the file
> sessionstore.js persist in your FF user profile folder?

I haven't checked for that particular file, but when I kill the process
from the Processes tab, it's 100% reproducible that I lose my cache. I
assume that's equivalent to what you're doing in Linux.

I'm now interested in which method Jay used in his test.

Fox on the run

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Jul 30, 2010, 11:08:30 AM7/30/10
to
On Jul 30, 12:33 am, Tarkus <karnev...@atlantabraves.net> wrote:
> On 7/29/2010 7:12 PM, Fox on the run wrote:
<snip>

> That's an excellent point that I overlooked.
>
> If you tell Windows' Task Manager to shut down a program from the
> Applications tab, it first sends a message to the program, trying to get
> it to shut down cleanly.  If it doesn't respond, then it will ask if you
> want to force it to shut down.  But if the program is not locked up, it
> will generally shut down normally.
>

I tested it on a W7 machine. If I end the application via Task
Manager with only one tab open, it does a clean shutdown. If there is
more than one tab open, FF prompts you with the usual window asking if
you want to save or quit. Task Manager prompts you with a window to
force the application to terminate. This ends up in a proper crash.
And if you use the Process tab in Task Manager as you suggested, that
results in a proper crash regardless if only one tab or more.

Jay, are we correct to guess that you were stopping FF from Task
Manager via the Application tab while only having one tab open thus
resulting in a clean shutdown? That would explain why your results
were different than the expected behaviour.

JB

Jay Garcia

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Jul 30, 2010, 12:57:23 PM7/30/10
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On 30.07.2010 10:08, Fox on the run wrote:

--- Original Message ---

> Jay, are we correct to guess that you were stopping FF from Task
> Manager via the Application tab while only having one tab open thus
> resulting in a clean shutdown? That would explain why your results
> were different than the expected behaviour.
>
> JB

One tab open, task ended AND process ended, all with the same results -
cache preserved - disk cache that is, not memory cache (volatile).

Fox on the run

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Jul 30, 2010, 1:29:17 PM7/30/10
to

What version of FF? That behaviour is contrary to the documented
behaviour for the current version of FF, and contrary to the testing
I've done and the posted experience of others who've complained that
they lose their cache when FF crashes. Although you did say your
cache is not at the standard location, correct? Although you wouldn't
expect that to cause it to behave differently, it may be the only
difference in our two scenarios (short of an add on somehow
interfering with the normal process) to account for the difference.

JB

Fox on the run

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Jul 30, 2010, 1:43:38 PM7/30/10
to

I changed the path of my cache using the browser.cache preference you
provided earlier in this thread. It didn't touch the old cache, but
started new cache at the new location. I killed FF, both cache still
existed (old and new). I restarted FF, old cache still there, but new
cache (where the preference now pointing) got cleared as expected.

So either your version of FF is older where this behaviour didn't
exist, or an add-on is somehow causing problems, or perhaps there is a
rights issue on the folder that contains the cache where you can read/
write to it but not delete, or you are not succeeding in crashing FF
but rather ending up with a proper shutdown. When you tried it did
you check the content of sessionstore.js after you killed it to see if
the file existed and that near the end of it you see that it's status
is "running"?

Or if you want to take it to an even greater depth of validation did
you check the _cache_map_ file to see if the dirty bit was set after
you crashed FF? And just so I'm making no assumptions, you do restart
FF before checking the state of your cache, correct? Because it only
gets cleared on restart (naturally - FF can't predict a crash and once
it crashed, it's not running anymore so can't delete the cache then.
Only on restart when it detects the dirty bit).

JB

Tarkus

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Jul 30, 2010, 4:10:28 PM7/30/10
to
On 7/30/2010 9:57 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 30.07.2010 10:08, Fox on the run wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> > Jay, are we correct to guess that you were stopping FF from Task
>> > Manager via the Application tab while only having one tab open thus
>> > resulting in a clean shutdown? That would explain why your results
>> > were different than the expected behaviour.
>> >
>> > JB
> One tab open, task ended AND process ended, all with the same results -
> cache preserved - disk cache that is, not memory cache (volatile).

Just to be clear, you're killing FF from the Processes tab in Task Manager?

Jay Garcia

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Jul 30, 2010, 11:33:16 PM7/30/10
to

--- Original Message ---

FF 3.6.8 and cache is on a terrabyte external drive. Could also be that
I don't uninstall the previous version prior to updating.

Jay Garcia

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Jul 30, 2010, 11:36:04 PM7/30/10
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On 30.07.2010 15:10, Tarkus wrote:

--- Original Message ---

> On 7/30/2010 9:57 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>> On 30.07.2010 10:08, Fox on the run wrote:
>>
>> --- Original Message ---
>>
>>> > Jay, are we correct to guess that you were stopping FF from Task
>>> > Manager via the Application tab while only having one tab open thus
>>> > resulting in a clean shutdown? That would explain why your results
>>> > were different than the expected behaviour.
>>> >
>>> > JB
>> One tab open, task ended AND process ended, all with the same results -
>> cache preserved - disk cache that is, not memory cache (volatile).
>
> Just to be clear, you're killing FF from the Processes tab in Task Manager?

Yes, and also killing on the running task as well. But then again that's
not a "crash" per se, just a forced exit.

Tarkus

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Jul 30, 2010, 11:48:14 PM7/30/10
to
On 7/30/2010 8:36 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 30.07.2010 15:10, Tarkus wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> > On 7/30/2010 9:57 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
>>> >> On 30.07.2010 10:08, Fox on the run wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> --- Original Message ---
>>> >>
>>>>> >>> > Jay, are we correct to guess that you were stopping FF from Task
>>>>> >>> > Manager via the Application tab while only having one tab open thus
>>>>> >>> > resulting in a clean shutdown? That would explain why your results
>>>>> >>> > were different than the expected behaviour.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > JB
>>> >> One tab open, task ended AND process ended, all with the same results -
>>> >> cache preserved - disk cache that is, not memory cache (volatile).
>> >
>> > Just to be clear, you're killing FF from the Processes tab in Task Manager?
> Yes, and also killing on the running task as well. But then again that's
> not a "crash" per se, just a forced exit.

I don't understand what you mean by "also killing on the running task as
well". If you mean killing it from the Applications task also, that
gives it a chance to shut down cleanly.

Killing from the Processes tab is instant (once you confirm), and DOES
properly simulate a crash, because the program has no chance to respond
and shut down cleanly. It's simply eliminated from memory.

Jay Garcia

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Jul 31, 2010, 12:27:16 AM7/31/10
to

--- Original Message ---

Hmm, you don't know "Applications - running" ?? The first two tabs are
"Applications" and "Processes". Applications are either "running" or
"not responding". Two columns - "Task" is the app and "Status" is
"running". That's what I mean by killing the running task. ;-)

> Killing from the Processes tab is instant (once you confirm), and DOES
> properly simulate a crash, because the program has no chance to respond
> and shut down cleanly. It's simply eliminated from memory.

Yes and no. A bona-fide "crash" crashes in a module most of the time and
in that respect it doesn't simulate a crash when you kill the process.
And when you kill the process it doesn't have a chance to write to cache
or prefs.js, etc.. And in my instance it doesn't remove the disk cache.
That's it, all I can say.

Fox on the run

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Jul 31, 2010, 7:01:34 AM7/31/10
to
On Jul 31, 2:27 am, Jay Garcia <J...@JayNOSPAMGarcia.com> wrote:
<snip>

>
> Yes and no. A bona-fide "crash" crashes in a module most of the time and
> in that respect it doesn't simulate a crash when you kill the process.
> And when you kill the process it doesn't have a chance to write to cache
> or prefs.js, etc.. And in my instance it doesn't remove the disk cache.
> That's it, all I can say.
>
> --
> *Jay Garcia - Netscape/Flock Champion*www.ufaq.org
> Netscape - Firefox - SeaMonkey - Flock - Thunderbird

Sorry if I'm dense here Jay and if you already touched on this, but
you are killing Firefox from the Process tab in Task Manager, correct
(not the Application tab as that doesn't give the same response - it
doesn't appear to kill Firefox but rather shuts it down properly)?
And you restart Firefox before checking to see if your cache gets
deleted, correct? Because it will only get deleted on restart as I
explained earlier.

JB

Jay Garcia

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Jul 31, 2010, 9:18:39 AM7/31/10
to
On 31.07.2010 06:01, Fox on the run wrote:

--- Original Message ---

/cache/"all data"/ remains intact no matter what. I haven't had an
actual "crash" in FF for many months, so I don't know if that actually
removes the cache. IOW, I can't duplicate that.

Getting rather old, time to move on .. at least here anyways.

Tarkus

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Jul 31, 2010, 2:07:27 PM7/31/10
to
On 7/31/2010 6:18 AM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> cache/"all data"/ remains intact no matter what. I haven't had an
> actual "crash" in FF for many months, so I don't know if that actually
> removes the cache. IOW, I can't duplicate that.

Try looking at about:cache (typed in your address bar), specifically
under "Disk cache device", then killing the program ONLY from the
Processes tab, restarting and then look at about:cache again. Don't
even pay attention to what's on your hard drive.

Yes, this thread is getting tired, but I would appreciate one last
indulgence.

Jay Garcia

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Aug 1, 2010, 12:01:49 AM8/1/10
to
On 31.07.2010 13:07, Tarkus wrote:

--- Original Message ---

Good news .. I guess ...

Was curious, since I mentioned that I never uninstalled previous
versions prior to loading/installing new versions.

Sooo ... I did an indepth survey of all settings - prefs.js - user.js ..
and sure enough, there was an entry in prefs.js and user.js pointing to
the cache directory in D:\FireBirdCache .. that location doesn't exist.
After removing those entries and restarting FF, the cache directories
are now showing the correct default locations, etc. and cache is now
removed when simulating a crash and so on ... whewwwww !!! 8-)

Tarkus

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Aug 1, 2010, 6:06:05 AM8/1/10
to
On 7/31/2010 9:01 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> Good news .. I guess ...
>
> Was curious, since I mentioned that I never uninstalled previous
> versions prior to loading/installing new versions.
>
> Sooo ... I did an indepth survey of all settings - prefs.js - user.js ..
> and sure enough, there was an entry in prefs.js and user.js pointing to
> the cache directory in D:\FireBirdCache .. that location doesn't exist.
> After removing those entries and restarting FF, the cache directories
> are now showing the correct default locations, etc. and cache is now
> removed when simulating a crash and so on ... whewwwww !!!8-)

Interesting. So where was it storing your cache, if the location was
set incorrectly? The regular FF default location?

Heh, that could be a trick for those people who don't want to lose the
cache after a crash. :)

Thanks for your time and report.

Jay Garcia

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Aug 1, 2010, 8:15:46 AM8/1/10
to
On 01.08.2010 05:06, Tarkus wrote:

--- Original Message ---

It's all corrected now. :-)

I think I need a rest !! ;-)

David McRitchie

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Aug 8, 2010, 6:25:36 PM8/8/10
to
"Michael" <mmor...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:JMqdndKJH_fttMLR...@mozilla.org...
> David McRitchie wrote:
>> <snipped>
>>
>> When you name a directory for your Firefox cache, suggest including
>> the profile name as a subdirectory within, because you want a different
>> cache for each profile.
>>
>
> Why do "you want a different cache for each profile." ?

It was unique to a profile beforehand, and you move it out of the profile,
it should still be unique. I would expect instability if tables don't match
data, but I don't know how Firefox works, just wouldn't make sense to
me to allow them be in the same pool.
-- c:\temp\cache\Firefox-Three
-- c:\temp\cache\profile1\
-- c:\temp\cache\profile2\

Ed Mullen

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Aug 8, 2010, 8:46:06 PM8/8/10
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Michael wrote:
> David McRitchie wrote:
>> <snipped>
>>
>> When you name a directory for your Firefox cache, suggest including
>> the profile name as a subdirectory within, because you want a different
>> cache for each profile.
>>
>
> Why do "you want a different cache for each profile." ?

Because I use each profile for different purposes?

Profile1 - general browsing - maybe I do want caching enabled.

Profile2 - Web development - I definitely want caching DISbabled.

Profile3 - I surf looking for porn and don't want a record of it?

Profilex ... whatever

Legitimate request.

For me, in practical use, I disable all caches. I use a 12Mbs cable
ISP. No need for caching.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net
Why are there interstate highways in Hawaii?

Ed Mullen

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Aug 8, 2010, 8:59:28 PM8/8/10
to
Pete Holsberg wrote:
> Jay Garcia has written on 7/29/2010 9:00 AM:
>> <snip>
>> On a lighter note, I started with a 300 baud modem Apple 2c and a 2e
>> dialup connection through GeNIE many moons ago. How many of you folks
>> remember GeNIE ?? ;-)
>
> I even remember my CompuServe account -- 70240,334 !!
>

errr ... ummm ... 74146,1020

... started in, I think, 1983. But, then, on Friday I turn 60 and will
be officially "as old as dirt." So, we can't rely on my memory any more.

On the other hand, my wife is ecstatic. A couple years ago when she
turned 60 a good friend said: "Hey! No problem, just decide to stay 59
forever!" And she said: "Ok!"

So. Friday will be the first day in our lives when I am older than she is.

Plus, she's decided that, since she's going to be younger than I am, she
will now be officially a "trophy wife."

As you may imagine I am attempting to cope with all of this with some
equanimity. Well. Rather than just saying: "Oh, shut up!"

Besides, on Friday she wants to take me to Maple Street Guitars in
Atlanta so I can buy a new guitar. Damn! What a gal!

Then I started looking through their inventory online and mentioned a
really nice eight thousand dollar guitar. Man, talk about hedging! I
thought she was gonna throw an embolism!

A little later I said: "Ooo! Look at this one! It's only $4,700!!!"

And she said: "Ok! Now that's more what I was thinking ... uh ... well
... couldn't you find something around $1,500?"

And I said: "Hell, I don't even want another guitar! But you keep
saying I need one and it should be "different." Don't you understand
what "different" costs?"

All of this it hilarious to me since I don't particularly want another
guitar. But, hell, it's nice to be loved.

The best line I heard today was when a friend related a bit from Prairie
Home Companion. Mid-west couple going on about the need to re-kindle
their marriage.

Guy: Look! Marriage is like the Electoral Congress. It's better if
you just don't think about it!

Sorry for the long-winded OT reply.

Life is a salad bar and I just keep banging my head on the sneeze guard.

Jay Garcia

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Aug 8, 2010, 9:13:29 PM8/8/10
to
On 08.08.2010 19:59, Ed Mullen wrote:

--- Original Message ---

> ... started in, I think, 1983. But, then, on Friday I turn 60 and will
> be officially "as old as dirt." So, we can't rely on my memory any more.
>

I'll be 67 in 3 weeks, I remember the day dirt was invented, junior!! ;-)

Ed Mullen

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Aug 8, 2010, 9:21:37 PM8/8/10
to

Sorry,the Electoral "College."

But you knew what I meant!

> It's better if you
> just don't think about it!

"Don't make no sense that common sense don't make no sense no more." -
John Prine

Ed Mullen

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Aug 8, 2010, 9:36:07 PM8/8/10
to
Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 08.08.2010 19:59, Ed Mullen wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> ... started in, I think, 1983. But, then, on Friday I turn 60 and will
>> be officially "as old as dirt." So, we can't rely on my memory any more.
>>
>
> I'll be 67 in 3 weeks, I remember the day dirt was invented, junior!! ;-)
>

LOL!

Ok. Dirt? I remember dirt! I remember dirt when it was just loess!

And before it was a reason to vote for or agin someone!!! Hah!

Dirt! Something you loved to feel between your toes. Well, before
Adidas and Nike.

Dirt. Oh those bastards in Washington!

People! USA Today (news McNuggets)!

If we all would just go out on the levee and get some dirt between our
toes ... all would be well. Not. But it is nice to think that there are
some simple solution, eh?

BTW, Jay, you're a constant pleasure. Keep on being resaonable. It's a
sorely missed commodity around here these days. And, my apologies to
all for my occasional rants and divergence from rational. As the French
say: "Le shit happens."

BTW, for no apparent reason, ... irrascible. I like the word and I like
the concept. ;-)

Shoot. Trophy wife. Damn. Nice concetpt, lousy cost!

Dyslexics of the world, UNTIE!

Ron Hunter

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Aug 9, 2010, 4:40:07 AM8/9/10
to
On 8/8/2010 8:13 PM, Jay Garcia wrote:
> On 08.08.2010 19:59, Ed Mullen wrote:
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
>> ... started in, I think, 1983. But, then, on Friday I turn 60 and will
>> be officially "as old as dirt." So, we can't rely on my memory any more.
>>
>
> I'll be 67 in 3 weeks, I remember the day dirt was invented, junior!! ;-)
>
Wow, Jay, I thought you were older than I am. Looking at 68 next
birthday in December! Being old as dirt isn't so bad as long as you are
on top of, rather than under, it. Grin.

Phillip Jones

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Aug 9, 2010, 9:38:32 AM8/9/10
to
Shoot, Jay is just a Young whipper-snapper. I've go him beat by a year.
That's another way of saying. At least your on the right side of the
grass.


--
Phillip M. Jones, C.E.T. "If it's Fixed, Don't Break it"
http://www.phillipmjones.net mailto:pjo...@kimbanet.com

Pete Holsberg

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Aug 10, 2010, 2:16:34 PM8/10/10
to Firefox help cummunity
Michael has written on 8/8/2010 6:16 PM:

> Pete Holsberg wrote:
> > Jay Garcia has written on 7/29/2010 9:00 AM:
> >> <snip>
> >> On a lighter note, I started with a 300 baud modem Apple 2c and a 2e
> >> dialup connection through GeNIE many moons ago. How many of you folks
> >> remember GeNIE ?? ;-)
> >>
> >
> > I even remember my CompuServe account -- 70240,334 !!
> >
> Good grief! I thought I was the only one! 76117,367. dusty?puller
> was the password. Compuserve was /way/ ahead of its time
Except they dropped the ball when a researcher found a way to gateway them on to the Internet, and they turned him down!! They could have been AOL!

--
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ

He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes;
he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever.
- Chinese Proverb

Pete Holsberg

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Aug 10, 2010, 2:18:09 PM8/10/10
to Firefox help cummunity
Ed Mullen has written on 8/8/2010 8:59 PM:

> Pete Holsberg wrote:
> > Jay Garcia has written on 7/29/2010 9:00 AM:
> >> <snip>
> >> On a lighter note, I started with a 300 baud modem Apple 2c and a 2e
> >> dialup connection through GeNIE many moons ago. How many of you folks
> >> remember GeNIE ?? ;-)
> >
> > I even remember my CompuServe account -- 70240,334 !!
> >
>
> errr ... ummm ... 74146,1020
>
> ... started in, I think, 1983. But, then, on Friday I turn 60 and will
> be officially "as old as dirt."

A baby! I have golf clubs older than you!! :-)

--
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ

Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish...
-- Euripides

Pete Holsberg

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Aug 10, 2010, 2:19:12 PM8/10/10