send a link... and how long is it valid
PeterInMn
I like to send web pages, mainly the whole page, but since FF only
provides "send a link", I have been doing that more frequently. My
question is:
1. how long before the link to the web page is changed, or the web page
is changed?
2. why did FF not include send a page?
3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?
Thanks,
Peter
jg
> Hi all.
> I like to send web pages, mainly the whole page, but since FF only
> provides "send a link",
save the page as a file and send that as attachment - why do you want to
send a web page??
you like wasting bandwidth?
I have been doing that more frequently.
you should break that habit...
My
> question is:
> 1. how long before the link to the web page is changed, or the web page
> is changed?
no answer to that question - could be 1 second - could be years...
>
> 2. why did FF not include send a page?
probably because most folks don't do things that way - a link is the way
most do it...
>
> 3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?
I for one am not a lawyer, so maybe you'd better talk to one.
The recipient could sue /you/ for stupidity...
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
Chris Ilias
> I like to send web pages, mainly the whole page, but since FF only
> provides "send a link", I have been doing that more frequently. My
> question is:
> 1. how long before the link to the web page is changed, or the web page
> is changed?
That is completely dependent on the website author.
> 2. why did FF not include send a page?
Send page does not work with most mail clients.
One thing you can do is save the page to your hard drive, and attach the
file to your message.
> 3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?
I have no idea. :-)
--
Chris Ilias
mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
Mozilla links <http://ilias.ca>
(Please do not email me tech support questions)
NM Public
>> 2. why did FF not include send a page?
>
> Send page does not work with most mail clients.
> One thing you can do is save the page to your hard drive, and attach the
> file to your message.
Another thing you can do is switch to the SeaMonkey suite, which
includes a "Send Page" command. I just wrote about this in my
blog in this item:
SeaMonkey Suite 1.0.1 and Send This Page
<http://deflexion.com/2006/04/seamonkey-suite-101-and-send-this-page>
>> 3. and lastly, is there legal problems with emailing web pages?
>
> I have no idea. :-)
Not if you keep it in your own personal email repository or wiki
or whatever *that is not available to the public*.
Nancy
Infinite Ink: <http://www.ii.com>
Deflexion & Reflexion: <http://deflexion.com>
--
Sent via SeaMonkey Suite
PeterInMn
thansk for the advice. Good links.
Yours,
Peter
PeterInMn
bandwidth aside, the web changes too fast for a simple link to be sent.
For example, a link to the front page of any web newspaper will change
by the next morning, right? Seamonkey retains this feature, IE retains
this feature, FF has menus to open up TB and send links or email, so it
should be a simple thing to add a "send page as email" menu. Lastyl,
high speed bandwith is the wave of the future, and dial up is going to
fade away. Bandwidth worries are pretty much a thing of the past or for
distant rural areas, it seems to me.
Yours in stupidity,
Peter
Stephen Gynn
You might also want to check out what the authors modestly call the
'Amazing webpage emailer' extension at
https://addons.mozilla.org/addon.php?id=886
It's not ideal, because you have to go through a website to email a
page, but it does the trick.
Steve
jg
I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need to do
so, I would send it as a file.
I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages - isn't a
web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public domain,
somewhat like a newspaper?
Forgive the stupidity crack - I had just read a few inane/arcane posts.
I know more than a few folks that would flip at receiving a webpage,
but I suppose if one were expecting it that wouldn't be the case,
I went through Nancy's links but I'm not a sys admin, which it appears
to be aimed at, but that could be wrong as well.
Why would one want to send a web page to wiki? Is that how some post there?
NM Public
>
> Why would one want to send a web page to wiki? Is that how some post there?
I use my wiki as a place to store notes, ideas, web pages, etc.
that are about things that I'm researching and that I will maybe
eventually write about on one of my public web sites. Lots of web
pages disappear so I like to keep my own personal archive of
useful web pages. Now that disk space is virtually free, it's
very easy to do this. For example, my viaVerio Signature Hosting
account, which just a few years ago included 25 MB of space, now
includes 10 Gigabytes (10,240,000 MB) of space. About the
legalities: It is not legal to *publicly* re-publish other
people's web pages unless they have explicitly licensed them that
way, e.g., with a Creative Commons license that allows
re-publication.
I hope this makes sense. BTW, if anyone is interested, I will
eventually publish the scripts that I use to convert email
messages to wiki content.
Nancy
Infinite Ink: <http://www.ii.com>
Deflexion & Reflexion: <http://deflexion.com>
--
Sent with SeaMonkey Suite
Ron Ruble
<snip>
> bandwidth aside, the web changes too fast for a simple link to be sent.
> For example, a link to the front page of any web newspaper will change
> by the next morning, right?
Yes; which is why most sources of fast-changing data on the web
offer a secondary link on main pages that is -persistent-.
> Lastly, high speed bandwith is the wave of the future, and dial up is
> going to fade away.
Actually, while higher-bandwidth communications can be
reasonably called "the wave of the future", it could be
still be -decades- away for many people. The technology
is not as much a hurdle in the US as the economics.
> Bandwidth worries are pretty much a thing of the past or for
> distant rural areas, it seems to me.
Sorry, you're wrong. Bandwidth worries are -still- a concern
in many urban areas in the US, and even more of a problem in
non-western nations.
It seems what you are really implying is that among urban
US users who have similar interests to yours, bandwidth is
not a consideration.
Pete Holsberg
> Hi all.
> I like to send web pages, mainly the whole page, but since FF only
> provides "send a link", I have been doing that more frequently.
Take heed: <http://jkn.com/toolbar-firefox.htm>
The amazing webpage emailer!
--
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ
"Having a smoking area in a restaurant is like having a peeing area in a pool." - Thomas Pfeffer, American Heart Association
gwtc
>
> I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need to do
> so, I would send it as a file.
> I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages - isn't a
> web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public domain,
> somewhat like a newspaper?
>
that is false. All web pages are copyrighted, whether they're
registered or not. A newspaper is NOT in the public domain either,
its copyrighted material.
--
Things to Ponder about: Can a hearse carrying a corpse drive in the
carpool lane?
jg
> jg wrote:
>> Why would one want to send a web page to wiki? Is that how some post there?
>
> I use my wiki as a place to store notes, ideas, web pages, etc.
> that are about things that I'm researching and that I will maybe
> eventually write about on one of my public web sites. Lots of web
> pages disappear so I like to keep my own personal archive of
> useful web pages. Now that disk space is virtually free, it's
> very easy to do this. For example, my viaVerio Signature Hosting
> account, which just a few years ago included 25 MB of space, now
> includes 10 Gigabytes (10,240,000 MB) of space.
So you prefer storing that data on the web rather than your own HD...
aren't you concerned about security of that data, in this day and age?
About the
> legalities: It is not legal to *publicly* re-publish other
> people's web pages unless they have explicitly licensed them that
> way, e.g., with a Creative Commons license that allows
> re-publication.
Ok, I can see that. Thought the OP inquired about emailing web pages,
not publishing them - unless, we (tinw) talking mailing list here.
Guess that may be different...
>
> I hope this makes sense. BTW, if anyone is interested, I will
> eventually publish the scripts that I use to convert email
> messages to wiki content.
If I should ever get to that stage, I'll get back to you.
tnx for the input
jg
jg
> jg wrote:
>
>> I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need to do
>> so, I would send it as a file.
>> I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages - isn't a
>> web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public domain,
>> somewhat like a newspaper?
>>
> that is false. All web pages are copyrighted, whether they're
> registered or not. A newspaper is NOT in the public domain either,
> its copyrighted material.
>
yabbut, I never saw/heard of anyone get in trouble for clipping articles
and senting them to friends and relatives.
I was thinking of the social side of email and I guess the OP had
something more/else in mind. The Creative Commons license mention later
tipped me off.
PeterInMn
I'll pick up where you originally left off. I think it is pretty Okay
to send pages as email without fear of legal reprisals, but I think
strictly technically, it could be illegal to reproduce PUBLICLY
copyrighted material. By publicly, I mean for wide dissemination. I
know copyright law allows portions of text to be reproduced for
scholarly work, but I do not think it allows whole articles to be
reproduced and copied multiple times for others to see. Maybe this is
why Nancy means as long as the article or page show up in your email
repository (?), it is Okay to send web pages. I am sorry if I seem to
making a big deal of this, but I have two concerns: 1. Trying to be
adherent to the law in a reasonable manner, and 2, trying to preserve
others intellectual creations in fairness (such as music or lyric
copyrights). As regards the newspapers, I think it is fair to send
their email pages around, as they have advertisements supporting their
work, and ultimately get credit with fame and fortune for good and
enriching articles, vis a vie, more viewers to their newspapers. When
the attorneys get involved, all common sense goes out the window!
Yours, maybe a little less stupid,
Peter
Moz Champion (Dan)
All work on web pages is protected. If you copy material, then you MAY
be liable for copyright and/or intellectual property lawsuits. "Fair
Use" doctrine still applies, but is generally more restrictive than most
people think.
Claiming that an article 'shows up' in your email, and is therefore
'free' to copy is nonsense.
If I photocopied an entire book and sent it to you, I am still breaking
the law, and you still have no right to distribute it. Two wrongs dont
make a right.
Any person, or organization that puts up a web site 'invested' their
time and effort into it. By copying it verbatim, you are in effect
'stealing' their work. If they give you permission, then all is well,
but you have to ask first.
Web pages change, and so do links. Of course, thats the intent of the
design. Claiming that you send web pages because the links may go out of
date is nonsense. Thats like claiming you can photocopy a book in its
entirety because it may go 'out of print' or is 'out of print'.
PeterInMn
you agree that some sending of some copyrighted material is permissible,
yes? I don't think forwarding of portions of newspaper article is
forbidden, but maybe the whole article is, but I doubt it. I would agree
there may be problems with hard copying and reproducing hundreds of
copies of a web page and distributing them to a group meeting, but I do
not think it is forbidden to send one copy to a friend or relative to
point some interesting thing out to them.
Yours,
In legal quandries,
Peter
Moz Champion (Dan)
http://www.utsystem.edu/OGC/intellectualProperty/copypol2.htm
The original 'fair use' as regards to copyrighted material
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
Moz Champion (Dan)
The distinction between “fair use” and infringement may be unclear and
not easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or
notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the
source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining
permission.
Obtain permission, and all is well.
Chris Ilias
> bandwidth aside, the web changes too fast for a simple link to be sent.
> For example, a link to the front page of any web newspaper will change
> by the next morning, right?
I can't think of one news site that doesn't provide permanent links to
each news item.
gwtc
> On 4/18/2006 9:20 AM NM Public scribbled:
>
>
>>jg wrote:
>>
>>>Why would one want to send a web page to wiki? Is that how some post there?
>>
>>I use my wiki as a place to store notes, ideas, web pages, etc.
>>that are about things that I'm researching and that I will maybe
>>eventually write about on one of my public web sites. Lots of web
>>pages disappear so I like to keep my own personal archive of
>>useful web pages. Now that disk space is virtually free, it's
>>very easy to do this. For example, my viaVerio Signature Hosting
>>account, which just a few years ago included 25 MB of space, now
>>includes 10 Gigabytes (10,240,000 MB) of space.
>
>
> So you prefer storing that data on the web rather than your own HD...
> aren't you concerned about security of that data, in this day and age?
>
my sig file says it all
--
Want to download the entire internet? Well believe it or not, you can
and you can do it from here: http://www.w3schools.com/downloadwww.htm.
Just make sure you have enough disk space.
gwtc
> On 4/18/2006 11:08 AM gwtc scribbled:
>
>
>>jg wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I can see what you are saying about a webpage. If i had the need to do
>>>so, I would send it as a file.
>>>I don't understand the concept of legality of sending pages - isn't a
>>>web page accessible to the public considered to be in the public domain,
>>>somewhat like a newspaper?
>>>
>>
>>that is false. All web pages are copyrighted, whether they're
>>registered or not. A newspaper is NOT in the public domain either,
>>its copyrighted material.
>>
>
> yabbut, I never saw/heard of anyone get in trouble for clipping articles
> and senting them to friends and relatives.
thats different. You're only clipping and sending. But if you use it
as your own, then thats illegal.
gwtc
you can download entire websites to your hard drive with no problems.
As long as its for personal use. No permission needed. However,
the moment you copy things and put them in your email or on your
website then it becomes illegal. Its the same with books, etc. You
can photocopy the entire book with no recourse. But the moment you
give it to someone else, with or without compensation, then it becomes
squaredancer
generate the following:? :
Author to person writing a book critique:
"... and what part of the book did you like best?"
Critique's answer:
"The Copyright section - *no part of this publication may be reproduced,
stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any
means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording or otherwise,
without the prior permission of the publisher* "
Copyright notice taken from "The Lord of the Rings" (three volumn issue)
You will find this limitation (be it good or bad *lol* ) in most
copyrighted publications - I don't know whether it is part of the Law??
Probably!
Apart from that, *anything* that is "taken" from another source is
liable to copyright and/or personal rights and may *NOT* be *PUBLICALLY*
reproduced! That includes copyrighted music on "your" website (you are
publishing music on the web), Webpages included into "your" website
(without appropiate permission) - even playing a CD in your
celler-barroom when several guests are present constitutes a breach of
copyright!
Theoretically, it is also possible to be charged with "public
broadcasting" if you play your car- or home radio so loudly, that it can
be heard "outside a reasonable distance" (usually described as "room
audibillity").
If you want to refer to a certain website, provide a linked URL - but
*do not forget* the disclaimer, that you are not responsible for, and
distance yourself from, the contents of the linked site. This of course,
includes any *further links* that are on the URL that you linked to...
who knows where "they" go to??
Photocopying books for distribution is one of the main critique areas in
the education system, here in Germany! The "School book publishers"
give the teachers *one copy* of working material. If further copies are
required, they must be *purchased*. No quick copies and give them to
the kids.... naughty, naughty, slapped fingers!
reg
Ron Hunter
> _PeterInMn_ spoke thusly on 18/04/2006 8:05 AM:
>> bandwidth aside, the web changes too fast for a simple link to be
>> sent. For example, a link to the front page of any web newspaper will
>> change by the next morning, right?
>
> I can't think of one news site that doesn't provide permanent links to
> each news item.
Humm. Local newspaper sites usually don't keep their stories online
with the same URL for more than a day or two. Many other sites replace
stories when a new one on the same subject comes in. Even Yahoo and
Excite often have stories disappear in a few days.
Ron Hunter
Oh, GREAT! Now I can call the police on the idiot who likes to drive
very slowly down the street with his car stereo turned up to warp 9.5
and 15 inch bass speakers with bass boost turned all the way up, and
rattling my windows and making my stomach ripple. Probably better than
shotgunning the idiot's speakers.... But then I am sure he never heard
of 'copyright', and is probably playing the music from a CD he ripped
from a friend's copay anyway.
squaredancer
generate the following:? :
dunno if the police would be interested! It is the company responsible
for "Original author's rights" - in Germany, that is called GEMA. I
think that the US has two companies - you need to ask any musician or
singer....I know that Squaredance Callers have to be covered by both
companies, to be able to call at open dances!
Just send them the registration number and (if you recognise it) the
tune... see what happens!
reg
squaredancer
generate the following:? :
> Chris Ilias wrote:
*lol*
*NOTHING* is older than this morning's news...
reg
NM Public
> On 4/18/2006 9:20 AM NM Public scribbled:
>
>> jg wrote:
>>> Why would one want to send a web page to wiki? Is that how some post there?
>>
>> I use my wiki as a place to store notes, ideas, web pages, etc.
>
> So you prefer storing that data on the web rather than your own HD...
> aren't you concerned about security of that data, in this day and age?
Yes I'm concerned about security, but I'm more interested in
being able to work from anywhere. That's why I use hosted IMAP
for my email and hosted web sites for all my writing, note
taking, bookmarks, to-do lists, etc. Being able to work from
anywhere and not being locked in to any system is a big part of
what some people call "Web 2.0." Once you've lost a hard disk or
spent a lot of time traveling without your own computer, you too
will appreciate this way of computing!
Nancy
Infinite Ink: <http://www.ii.com>
Deflexion & Reflexion: <http://deflexion.com>
--
Sent with SeaMonkey Suite
Gudmund Areskoug
> jg wrote:
>> On 4/18/2006 9:20 AM NM Public scribbled:
>>
>>> jg wrote:
>>>> Why would one want to send a web page to wiki? Is that how some
>>>> post there?
>>>
>>> I use my wiki as a place to store notes, ideas, web pages, etc. that
>>> are about things that I'm researching [...]
>>
>> So you prefer storing that data on the web rather than your own HD...
>> aren't you concerned about security of that data, in this day and age?
>
> Yes I'm concerned about security, but I'm more interested in being able
> to work from anywhere. That's why I use hosted IMAP for my email and
> hosted web sites for all my writing, note taking, bookmarks, to-do
> lists, etc. Being able to work from anywhere and not being locked in to
> any system is a big part of what some people call "Web 2.0." Once you've
> lost a hard disk or spent a lot of time traveling without your own
> computer, you too will appreciate this way of computing!
I've tried travelling in a country that was otherwise modern, but where
Internet access with reasonable speeds was... Difficult. I'll never
forget the experience.
Why don't you go for a USB pocket HD with portable apps?
My current one packs 100 GB in a standard laptop 2.5" HD, feeds off the
USB (no external power needed). I can exchange the HD easily, should I
want to.
Some come with shock-resistant casing, some come with fingerprint
identification etc. security features.
BR,
Gudmund, via Portable Thunderbird on the USB HD
gwtc
some local newspapers keep them online for a very long time. Mine
does. I can search back many years worth.
clay
>
> Oh, GREAT! Now I can call the police on the idiot who likes to drive
> very slowly down the street with his car stereo turned up to warp 9.5
> and 15 inch bass speakers with bass boost turned all the way up, and
> rattling my windows and making my stomach ripple. Probably better than
> shotgunning the idiot's speakers.... But then I am sure he never heard
> of 'copyright', and is probably playing the music from a CD he ripped
> from a friend's copay anyway.
>
Well, if you lived in Balboa Island, CA you could.
Years ago, there was a problem with kids cruising the peninsula with
their cars thump thump thumping.
The police cracked down on them, citing them for noise ordinances... and
impounding the stereos as evidence.
Not the whole car... Just the stereo, amps, and speakers.
Would have loved to see them while they were going after those 15"
woofers with a crowbar. *g*
--
100% money back guarantee!
If at any time you are dissatisfied with the performance of your Mozilla
product, feel free to return it for a complete refund of what you paid
for it...
gwtc
those copyright notices don't mean much. Here in North American, you
can't copyright recipes. Yet, there are thousands of recipe books
that have copyright notices in them. You come along and copy every
recipe in a cook book, and create your own book. Are you violating
any law. No. But then, maybe you are. IF you also copied the
details about the recipe [like, this is one that my Nana used to make
and it was a special treat for all the neighbourhood kids], or you
copied the graphics, then yes, you are violating copyright laws.
> Copyright notice taken from "The Lord of the Rings" (three volumn issue)
> You will find this limitation (be it good or bad *lol* ) in most
> copyrighted publications - I don't know whether it is part of the Law??
> Probably!
>
> Apart from that, *anything* that is "taken" from another source is
> liable to copyright and/or personal rights and may *NOT* be *PUBLICALLY*
> reproduced!
thats the key word -- public. The moment you make it public, then it
violates copyright laws. However, if you copy it for your own use,
then its not violating any laws.
That includes copyrighted music on "your" website (you are
> publishing music on the web), Webpages included into "your" website
> (without appropiate permission) - even playing a CD in your
> celler-barroom when several guests are present constitutes a breach of
> copyright!
> Theoretically, it is also possible to be charged with "public
> broadcasting" if you play your car- or home radio so loudly, that it can
> be heard "outside a reasonable distance" (usually described as "room
> audibillity").
>
> If you want to refer to a certain website, provide a linked URL - but
> *do not forget* the disclaimer, that you are not responsible for, and
> distance yourself from, the contents of the linked site. This of course,
> includes any *further links* that are on the URL that you linked to...
> who knows where "they" go to??
>
> Photocopying books for distribution is one of the main critique areas in
> the education system, here in Germany! The "School book publishers"
> give the teachers *one copy* of working material. If further copies are
> required, they must be *purchased*. No quick copies and give them to
> the kids.... naughty, naughty, slapped fingers!
>
> reg
--
Things to Ponder about: Why do people point to their wrist when asking
for the time, but don't point to their crotch when they ask where the
bathroom is?
Gordon Weast
(lots snipped)
>
>
> thats the key word -- public. The moment you make it public, then it
> violates copyright laws. However, if you copy it for your own use,
> then its not violating any laws.
>
Unless the DRM ( == Deny Rights to Movie/Music-lovers) laws get enhanced...
These laws seem aimed at making private copies illegal.
Ron Lopshire
And, it is about to get worse.
Quote (from Reason.org): "Yes, it is time to make the Digital
Millennium Copyright Act even stronger: If not, the terrorists are
winning. No, really."
(http://news.com.com/Congress+readies+new+digital+copyright+bill/2100-1028_3-6064016.html?tag=cd.top)
Short Version: http://tinyurl.com/mlpsz
Beam me up, Scottie. Please.
I left this snipped, since it is parenthetical to the technical aspect
of this thread.
Ron :)
Alex
Ahh yes, the new way to get any law passed: just cite terrorism. :-(
--
Alex