Playing Java online games using Firefox 52

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

I heard that Firefox 52 would no longer run Java runtime via its NPAPI.

How could we continue to play online Java games then?

--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

[Ryan P.]

On 2/24/2017 6:02 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>
> I heard that Firefox 52 would no longer run Java runtime via its NPAPI.
>
> How could we continue to play online Java games then?

The Enterprise branch of Firefox will continue to support NPAPI
plugins with v52, but will be discontinued in version 53, so that could
be an option for you.

Unfortunately, I'm encountering more and more websites that don't
function properly with Firefox but DO funtion properly with IE/Edge and
Chrome, and this has lead me to disable automatic updates with Firefox.

I understand the security concerns, but it seems we are going
backwards in technology Like in the early 2000's, I'm starting to see
more "Best if viewed with {Edge, Chrome, IE} buttons on websites.

DirecTV Now is a perfect example. If Firefox is detected, they won't
even attempt to serve the page. They tell you to come back with Chrome
or IE/Edge.

[Chris Ilias]

On 24/02/2017 8:40 AM, Ryan P. wrote:
> I understand the security concerns, but it seems we are going
> backwards in technology Like in the early 2000's, I'm starting to see
> more "Best if viewed with {Edge, Chrome, IE} buttons on websites.
>
> DirecTV Now is a perfect example. If Firefox is detected, they won't
> even attempt to serve the page. They tell you to come back with Chrome
> or IE/Edge.

From
<https://forums.att.com/t5/Finding-Shows-Channels/Firefox-Browser/td-p/5012059>,
dated Dec 17, 2016:
"Firefox support is on our list of things to get working."

DirecTV Now uses the Silverlight plugin. Microsoft has stopped
developing Silverlight, and does not recommend it
<https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/02/microsoft_silverlight/>
I don't know where you read that DirecTV Now supports Edge. It's not
listed as a supported browser, and Edge doesn't support Silverlight.
Netflix used to use Silverlight, and they have switched to HTML5. It
looks like DirecTV Now is in the same transition.

--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
Mailing list/Newsgroup moderator

[Disaster Master]

On Fri Feb 24 2017 08:40:26 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), Ryan P. <rdelet...@wi.rr.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, I'm encountering more and more websites that don't 
function properly with Firefox but DO funtion properly with IE/Edge and 
Chrome, and this has lead me to disable automatic updates with Firefox.

I understand the security concerns, but it seems we are going 
backwards in technology  Like in the early 2000's, I'm starting to see 
more "Best if viewed with {Edge, Chrome, IE} buttons on websites.

DirecTV Now is a perfect example.  If Firefox is detected, they won't 
even attempt to serve the page.  They tell you to come back with Chrome 
or IE/Edge.

I just confirmed this for the DirectTV Now service. While I have zero need for Java, I must say, your comment about this and other sites actually resorting to completely disallowing access based solely on the browser being Firefox is EXTREMELY concerning.

I'm very interested in what any of the Firefox devs might have to say about this? Specifically, what about this problem with DirectTV Now? I'm concerned about that one specifically, because I am about ready to cut the cord, and DirectTV Now is likely going to be a major part of that move.

[Disaster Master]

On Fri Feb 24 2017 09:26:47 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), Chris Ilias <nm...@ilias.ca> wrote:

 From 
<https://forums.att.com/t5/Finding-Shows-Channels/Firefox-Browser/td-p/5012059>, 
dated Dec 17, 2016:
"Firefox support is on our list of things to get working."

DirecTV Now uses the Silverlight plugin. Microsoft has stopped 
developing Silverlight, and does not recommend it 
<https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/07/02/microsoft_silverlight/>
I don't know where you read that DirecTV Now supports Edge. It's not 
listed as a supported browser, and Edge doesn't support Silverlight.
Netflix used to use Silverlight, and they have switched to HTML5. It 
looks like DirecTV Now is in the same transition.

Whew, thanks Chris.

Ok, Ryan, can you provide a list of other websites that are refusing to load with Firefox?

Or, maybe you just use a lot of sites using old tech like silverlight or java?

[Gabriela Montagu]

Hello,

I checked the site with Nightly, I had no problem at all. I hope this helps!

Best regards,
Gabriela
QA Mozilla Hispano Team Responsible

http://www.mozilla-hispano.org

_______________________________________________
support-firefox mailing list
support...@lists.mozilla.org
https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-firefox
To unsubscribe, send an email to support-firefox-request@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe

[Disaster Master]

Please do not top post in an existing thread.

On Fri Feb 24 2017 09:57:23 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), Gabriela Montagu <gmon...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 24 February 2017 at 11:31, Disaster Master <disasterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri Feb 24 2017 08:40:26 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), Ryan P. <rdelet...@wi.rr.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, I'm encountering more and more websites that don't 
function properly with Firefox but DO funtion properly with IE/Edge and 
Chrome, and this has lead me to disable automatic updates with Firefox.

I understand the security concerns, but it seems we are going 
backwards in technology  Like in the early 2000's, I'm starting to see 
more "Best if viewed with {Edge, Chrome, IE} buttons on websites.

DirecTV Now is a perfect example.  If Firefox is detected, they won't 
even attempt to serve the page.  They tell you to come back with Chrome 
or IE/Edge.

I just confirmed this for the DirectTV Now service. While I have zero need for Java, I must say, your comment about this and other sites actually resorting to completely disallowing access based solely on the browser being Firefox is EXTREMELY concerning.

I'm very interested in what any of the Firefox devs might have to say about this? Specifically, what about this problem with DirectTV Now? I'm concerned about that one specifically, because I am about ready to cut the cord, and DirectTV Now is likely going to be a major part of that move.

I checked the site with Nightly, I had no problem at all. I hope this helps!

The main page loads fine. Try clicking the 'Sign in' button.

[Gabriela Montagu]

On 24 February 2017 at 12:15, Disaster Master <disasterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

The main page loads fine. Try clicking the 'Sign in' button.

​Tried that and several other links, all work fine​

[WaltS48]

On 02/24/2017 10:15 AM, Disaster Master wrote:
> Please do not top post in an existing thread.
>
> On Fri Feb 24 2017 09:57:23 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), Gabriela
> Montagu <gmon...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 24 February 2017 at 11:31, Disaster Master

>> <disasterl...@gmail.com <mailto:disasterl...@gmail.com>>

>> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri Feb 24 2017 08:40:26 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), Ryan

>> P. <rdelet...@wi.rr.com> <mailto:rdelet...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>>> Unfortunately, I'm encountering more and more websites that don't
>>> function properly with Firefox but DO funtion properly with IE/Edge and
>>> Chrome, and this has lead me to disable automatic updates with Firefox.
>>>
>>> I understand the security concerns, but it seems we are going
>>> backwards in technology Like in the early 2000's, I'm starting to see
>>> more "Best if viewed with {Edge, Chrome, IE} buttons on websites.
>>>
>>> DirecTV Now is a perfect example. If Firefox is detected, they won't
>>> even attempt to serve the page. They tell you to come back with Chrome
>>> or IE/Edge.
>>
>> I just confirmed this for the DirectTV Now service. While I have
>> zero need for Java, I must say, your comment about this and other
>> sites actually resorting to completely disallowing access based
>> solely on the browser being Firefox is EXTREMELY concerning.
>>
>> I'm very interested in what any of the Firefox devs might have to
>> say about this? Specifically, what about this problem with
>> DirectTV Now? I'm concerned about that one specifically, because I
>> am about ready to cut the cord, and DirectTV Now is likely going
>> to be a major part of that move.
>>
>>
>> I checked the site with Nightly, I had no problem at all. I hope this
>> helps!
>
> The main page loads fine. Try clicking the 'Sign in' button.

Using Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/54.0 BuildID: 20170224110129

I'm presented with
<https://directvnow.com/accounts/BrowserNotSupported.html> when I click
the "Sign In" button.

--
Visit Pittsburgh <http://www.visitpittsburgh.com/>
Coexist <https://www.coexist.org/>
National Popular Vote <http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/>
Ubuntu 16.04LTS

[Disaster Master]

On Fri Feb 24 2017 10:32:46 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), Gabriela Montagu <gmon...@gmail.com> wrote:

On 24 February 2017 at 12:15, Disaster Master <disasterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

The main page loads fine. Try clicking the 'Sign in' button.

​Tried that and several other links, all work fine​

What version of Firefox?

[Lance]

Disaster Master wrote on 2/24/2017 07:15:
>>
>> I checked the site with Nightly, I had no problem at all. I hope this
>> helps!
>
> The main page loads fine. Try clicking the 'Sign in' button.

Using 32bit, FF 51.0.1 on Win10 (got the same page using Edge):

https://directvnow.com/accounts/BrowserNotSupported.html

WHAT THE DEUCE?!
It looks like you’re not using the right browser. Don’t sweat it, you
can stream on Google Chrome 50+, Safari 8+ or Internet Explorer 11+ (on
Windows 8 and up).

Lance
*****

[Gabriela Montagu]

On 24 February 2017 at 12:37, Disaster Master <disasterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

What version of Firefox?

     Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/54.0

​using Windows 7 32 bit​

[Disaster Master]

And are you using one of the tricks to change the browser user agent?

[Gabriela Montagu]

On 24 February 2017 at 12:55, Disaster Master <disasterl...@gmail.com> wrote:

And are you using one of the tricks to change the browser user agent?

​Sorry, I don't know what you are talking about!!!! No tricks!!! It just works!!!!​

[WaltS48]

On 02/24/2017 10:32 AM, Gabriela Montagu wrote:
>
> On 24 February 2017 at 12:15, Disaster Master

> <disasterl...@gmail.com <mailto:disasterl...@gmail.com>>

> wrote:
>
> The main page loads fine. Try clicking the 'Sign in' button.
>
>
> ​Tried that and several other links, all work fine​
>
>
>

It should not work. Didn't work in my Nightly. Doesn't work in 52.0b9

<https://help.directvnow.com/hc/en-us/articles/212447843-What-devices-and-browsers-can-be-used-with-DIRECTV-NOW->

But the problem is being addressed, so they say.

<https://forums.att.com/t5/Finding-Shows-Channels/Firefox-Browser/td-p/5012059>

[Gabriela Montagu]

On 24 February 2017 at 13:35, WaltS48 <thali...@removeaim.com> wrote:

It should not work. Didn't work in my Nightly. Doesn't work in 52.0b9

​It works perfectly with Nightly 54.0a1 which​ is what I am using. It seems your Nightly version is outdated. Try updating it

[Gabriela Montagu]

[Ryan P.]

Yes, you are correct. I automatically lump IE/Edge together, and I
should not!

Its irritating that a newly developed service depends on technology
that was already outdated before that service went public.

Its also irritating that I need to have three browsers installed
because so many web designers don't restrict themselves to "standards."

[Disaster Master]

Something like the User Agent Overrider:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/user-agent-overrider/

I just tested and confirmed if you use this and set the User Agent to IE 11 and it works (or at least I get to the Login page).

[WaltS48]

On 02/24/2017 11:38 AM, Gabriela Montagu wrote:
>
> On 24 February 2017 at 13:35, WaltS48 <thali...@removeaim.com

> <mailto:thali...@removeaim.com>> wrote:
>
>
> It should not work. Didn't work in my Nightly. Doesn't work in 52.0b9
>
>
> ​It works perfectly with Nightly 54.0a1 which​ is what I am using. It
> seems your Nightly version is outdated. Try updating it
>
>
>
>
>
>

There is a newer build than BuildID: 20170224110129?

[Keith Nuttle]

If a webpage is so primitive that it can not except Firefox, then I stop
going to the website. I will not say never but, Firefox will have to go
bottoms up before I will use Chrome or IE.

[Ryan P.]

Oh, I'm absolutely positive they are sites using old tech. The big
commercial sites tend to work. Many of the sites I access that don't
work (DTVNOW is the only one that refused to attempt to load, other just
function improperly when I run into them) are Enterprise sites, for
business to business services.

Yes, I realize this isn't Firefox's fault. But it will be very
frustrating when Firefox won't be able to be used with most such sites
because Firefox is opting to drop all support rather than a slower
transition where support is an option (that is default to OFF) but can
be enabled if necessary.

Do we know if the user agent data will be finally differentiated
between 52 and 52 Enterprise?

[Ryan P.]

On 2/24/2017 8:57 AM, Gabriela Montagu wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I checked the site with Nightly, I had no problem at all. I hope this helps!
>
>
> Best regards,
> Gabriela
> QA Mozilla Hispano Team Responsible
>
> http://www.mozilla-hispano.org
>
>
>
>
>
> On 24 February 2017 at 11:31, Disaster Master

> <disasterl...@gmail.com <mailto:disasterl...@gmail.com>>

> wrote:
>
> On Fri Feb 24 2017 08:40:26 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time), Ryan

> P. <rdelet...@wi.rr.com> <mailto:rdelet...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>> Unfortunately, I'm encountering more and more websites that don't
>> function properly with Firefox but DO funtion properly with IE/Edge and
>> Chrome, and this has lead me to disable automatic updates with Firefox.
>>
>> I understand the security concerns, but it seems we are going
>> backwards in technology Like in the early 2000's, I'm starting to see
>> more "Best if viewed with {Edge, Chrome, IE} buttons on websites.
>>
>> DirecTV Now is a perfect example. If Firefox is detected, they won't
>> even attempt to serve the page. They tell you to come back with Chrome
>> or IE/Edge.
>
> I just confirmed this for the DirectTV Now service. While I have
> zero need for Java, I must say, your comment about this and other
> sites actually resorting to completely disallowing access based
> solely on the browser being Firefox is EXTREMELY concerning.
>
> I'm very interested in what any of the Firefox devs might have to
> say about this? Specifically, what about this problem with DirectTV
> Now? I'm concerned about that one specifically, because I am about
> ready to cut the cord, and DirectTV Now is likely going to be a
> major part of that move.

To be fair, I understand the dilemma the Mozilla team has... Beyond
the Silverlight plugin issue, there's probably DRM concerns, and the
Mozilla community is generally anti-DRM. Do they "Sell out" and
incorporate DRM into the hard-coding, or do they "break" the user
experience for the less-informed that don't care about the politic of DRM?

[Ryan P.]

Oh, Firefox is still my main browser. My irritation comes when I'm
forced to use one of the other ones to access a mainstream webpage.

I didn't mean to start a huge discussion based on my little rant.

Sorry, folks!

[The Real Bev]

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/51.0
BuildID: 20170125094131

about:support also says this: Multiprocess Windows 0/1 (Disabled by
add-ons)

Could this possibly be meaningful?

Amazingly enough, DirectTV works for me -- at least as far as an attempt
to sign in. Flickr doesn't, though. I can't see most Facebook videos.
Alibaba express doesn't work.

--
Cheers, Bev
Linux: The penguin is mightier than the sword

[Chris Ilias]

On 24/02/2017 11:59 AM, Ryan P. wrote:
> To be fair, I understand the dilemma the Mozilla team has... Beyond
> the Silverlight plugin issue, there's probably DRM concerns, and the
> Mozilla community is generally anti-DRM. Do they "Sell out" and
> incorporate DRM into the hard-coding, or do they "break" the user
> experience for the less-informed that don't care about the politic of DRM?

Firefox uses a pre-installed plugin to play DRM-enabled HTML5 content.
For more info, see
<https://support.mozilla.org/t5/Video-audio-and-interactive/Watch-DRM-content-on-Firefox/ta-p/37423>

[Caver1]

I went to view a video that is hosted on Hulu. With Chrome,
Palemoon and a couple of others I got a message from Hulu
that stated that this browser doesn't support protected
video. We suggest using Firefox. As far as I know Firefox
supports DRM.

--
Caver1

[WaltS48]

On 02/24/2017 11:54 AM, Ryan P. wrote:
> Yes, I realize this isn't Firefox's fault. But it will be very
> frustrating when Firefox won't be able to be used with most such sites
> because Firefox is opting to drop all support rather than a slower
> transition where support is an option (that is default to OFF) but can
> be enabled if necessary.

It has been a slow transition, but I realize that not everyone is aware
of the transition.

Jan 2013
<https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2013/01/29/putting-users-in-control-of-plugins/>

Sept 2013
<https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2013/09/24/plugin-activation-in-firefox/>

> Site maintainers should prepare for plugins to stop working in all versions of Firefox by the end of 2016.

REF: Oct 2015
<https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/10/08/npapi-plugins-in-firefox/>

> The next major Firefox ESR (Extended Support Release) release, also scheduled for March, will continue to support plugins such as Silverlight and Java until early 2018, for those users who need more time for their transition.

REF:
<https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2016/07/20/reducing-adobe-flash-usage-in-firefox/>

[CRNG]

On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 11:03:13 -0600, "Ryan P." <rdelet...@wi.rr.com>
wrote in
<mailman.3095.148795583...@lists.mozilla.org>

> Oh, Firefox is still my main browser. My irritation comes when I'm
>forced to use one of the other ones to access a mainstream webpage.
>
> I didn't mean to start a huge discussion based on my little rant.
>
> Sorry, folks!

For situations like this I use a portable version of Chrome or
PaleMoon. Portable versions are very unobtrusive. If a site
absolutely requires IE, I don't use the site. Period. I once changed
banks for that very reason.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

[Mark12547]

In article <mailman.3076.1487937754.19728.support-
fir...@lists.mozilla.org>, toylet...@gmail.com says...
> I heard that Firefox 52 would no longer run Java runtime via its NPAPI.
>

For what it's worth, the 64-bit Firefox on the Windows platform has
never supported the Java plug-in. Up to today, if you have not
specifically gone after the 64-bit build, on Windows you would have the
32-bit build. But Mozilla is considering automatically switching 32-bit
Firefox users over to 64-bit on Windows systems that support it sometime
during the second half of 2017; see:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Win64

More pertinent, Oracle plans to depreciate the Java plug-in in JDK 9.
See, for example,
https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-
group/entry/moving_to_a_plugin_free

Also: http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/289

The Java plug-in will still continue to work after Java JDK 9 is
installed, but the plug-in may generate warnings, and "depreciation" in
this context means that web developers are on notice that some future
version of the Java JDK will eliminate the plug-in, though exactly when
is still undecided.

(Oracle is suggesting Java Web Start as an alternative to requiring the
plug-in. Non-Java options include HTML5, JavaScript, and making use of
improvements in CSS.)

Java JDK 9 is scheduled for general availability in late July, 2017.

[Mr. Man-wai Chang]

On 25/02/2017 5:38 AM, Mark12547 wrote:
> More pertinent, Oracle plans to depreciate the Java plug-in in JDK 9.
> See, for example,
> https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-
> group/entry/moving_to_a_plugin_free
>
> Also: http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/289
>
> The Java plug-in will still continue to work after Java JDK 9 is
> installed, but the plug-in may generate warnings, and "depreciation" in
> this context means that web developers are on notice that some future
> version of the Java JDK will eliminate the plug-in, though exactly when
> is still undecided.
>
> (Oracle is suggesting Java Web Start as an alternative to requiring the
> plug-in. Non-Java options include HTML5, JavaScript, and making use of
> improvements in CSS.)
>
> Java JDK 9 is scheduled for general availability in late July, 2017.

I barely remember that the finance industry invested a lot of
programming efforts in Java. I would be amazed if they just pulled the
plug... that would hurt a lot of small Java companies.

Would there be a 64-bit runtime that works with future browsers?


--
@~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!!
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty!
/( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you!
^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

[Mark12547]

In article <mailman.3028.1488106312.19729.support-
fir...@lists.mozilla.org>, toylet...@gmail.com says...

> Would there be a 64-bit runtime that works with future browsers?
>
>

There is currently a 64-bit Java plug-in that is distributed as a part
of the 64-bit Java JRE download. (You need the 32-bit plug-in and thus
need the 32-bit Java download for 32-bit browsers, and likewise you need
the 64-bit plug-in and thus the 64-bit Java download for 64-bit
browsers. And, of course, the particular browser must support NPAPI
plug-ins and hasn't blacklisted Java.)

However, The 64-bit Firefox for Windows does not support the Java plug-
in, the next major release of Firefox 32-bit (Firefox 52, scheduled for
March 2017) won't support it, and the Chrome browsers don't support it,
nor does Microsoft Edge (but Internet Explorer 11 does).

But if you have a 64-bit browser that does support NPAPI plug-ins, you
may want to take a peak at this page:
https://java.com/en/download/help/enable_browser.xml