[Compat-data] Change "Firefox Mobile" to "Firefox For Android"? [Decision]

[Stephanie Hobson]

We're going to:

- Change "Firefox Mobile" to "Firefox for Android"
- Append "for Desktop" to all the desktop browsers in the API.

Thanks for all who participated in the discussion :)
Stephanie.



On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Jeremie Patonnier <
jeremie....@gmail.com> wrote:

> An aside point: When we designed the API, we purposely avoid the OS to be a
> formal data. So in the data schema Firefox Desktop, Firefox for Android,
> Firefox for iOS, Firefox for Firefox OS and Firefox OS itself are all
> different user agents that need to be diferentiate.
>
> That said, how we are displaying the data for each of them is a 100%
> different topic and can be adjust for each display context.
>
> 2015-01-27 18:56 GMT+01:00 Jeremie Patonnier <jeremie....@gmail.com
> >:
>
> > +1 for Firefox Desktop
> >
> > I'm less convinced about Firefox Mobile as it's way to vague and fuzzy in
> > a web dev point of view.
> >
> > Same problem as for Chrome Mobile, would it be Chrome for Android or
> > Chrome for iOS (two very different things as for Firefox)
> >
> > 2015-01-27 18:51 GMT+01:00 Jean-Yves Perrier <jype...@gmail.com>:
> >
> >> I'm personally ok with this "Firefox for Desktop", "Firefox (for
> >> Desktop)".
> >>
> >> Not that's my opinion is decisive on this one though :-) :-)
> >>
> >> On 27/01/2015 17:49, Stephanie Hobson wrote:
> >> > I'm going to interpret the silence on this thread as an okay to move
> >> > forward with appending "for Desktop" to all our desktop versions and
> to
> >> > switch from "Firefox Mobile" to "Firefox for Android". But, since
> there
> >> > was silence, I wanted to put out one last call for feedback before I
> >> > announce the decision.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Stephanie.
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 2:27 AM, Karen Rudnitski <
> >> krudn...@mozilla.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Thanks for taking the time to consider my points, Stephanie – I think
> >> what
> >> >> you outlined below makes great sense in terms of consistency with
> >> product
> >> >> names and providing more clarity on what we’re referring to.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Karen
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> *From:* Stephanie Hobson [mailto:sho...@mozilla.com]
> >> >> *Sent:* 22 January 2015 20:54
> >> >> *To:* mdn-drivers
> >> >> *Cc:* Karen Rudnitski; Jean-Yves Perrier; Jeremie Patonnier;
> Sebastian
> >> >> Zartner
> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Compat-data] Change "Firefox Mobile" to "Firefox For
> >> >> Android"?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> If it helps please consider:
> >> >> - don't worry if the title is too long for the existing tables. I
> would
> >> >> like to make sure we have the correct information in the API before
> >> >> worrying about how to display it ;)
> >> >>
> >> >> - Our audience for this data is developers, understanding the
> >> information
> >> >> is more important than branding (but they're not un-related)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I think the fact that we treat "Firefox" as the cannonical Firefox
> and
> >> >> "Firefox Mobile" as a side project is a fragment of how the compat
> >> tables
> >> >> have developed over time. When the iPhone was launched we could say
> >> >> "Firefox, Internet Explorer, Safari" and know what we meant - so we
> >> had to
> >> >> differentiate the mobile from those. (Though, that consistency was
> hard
> >> >> fought, remember the days of IE for Mac? *shudder*)
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't think mobile should be an afterthought anymore, and that
> means
> >> we
> >> >> can't assume that Desktop is canonical when we say "Firefox" anymore.
> >> I'd
> >> >> be in favour of appending some kind of indication of the difference
> to
> >> all
> >> >> of the browser names.
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't think it has to be a super technical indication, devs just
> >> need to
> >> >> understand it, "Desktop" is sufficient. This would be a change for us
> >> to
> >> >> make to Chrome, Internet Explorer, etc. as well.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> We can always display the data differently from how we store it.
> >> >>
> >> >> API: Firefox for Desktop, Firefox for Android, Firefox for iOS,
> >> FirefoxOS,
> >> >> Chrome for Desktop, Chrome for Android.
> >> >>
> >> >> Desktop compatibility table: Firefox, Chrome.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mobile compatibility table: Firefox for Android, Firefox for iOS,
> >> >> FirefoxOS, Chrome for Android.
> >> >>
> >> >> Firefox compatibility table: Desktop, Android, iOS, OS.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks for jumping into the discussion Karen :)
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Stephanie.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 7:43 AM, William Maggs <wma...@mozilla.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> No way we should EVER call it Firefox for Desktop--my kids don't even
> >> know
> >> >> what one of those is.
> >> >>
> >> >> Firefox Mobile for Android?
> >> >>
> >> >> and: Firefox Mobile for iOS?
> >> >>
> >> >> It's a branding excercise mostly.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Karen Rudnitski <
> >> krudn...@mozilla.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Yes, I understand all of those points – that’s why I was going down
> >> two
> >> >>> paths, while still trying to be consistent with product naming.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Although I understand the reasoning for being implicit when
> seemingly
> >> >>> obvious, those implicits get discussed and coded, therefore
> >> perpetuating
> >> >>> inconsistent naming.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> That’s why I went with two options that would satisfy the need to
> show
> >> >> the
> >> >>> differences between the various products whilst maintaining branding
> >> >>> consistency.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I don’t think it’s a tough ask that if it’s settled to have ‘Firefox
> >> for
> >> >>> Android’ and – later in 2015 – ‘Firefox for iOS’, that we simply
> >> rename
> >> >>> desktop to ‘Firefox Desktop’.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> (FWIW, I’m perfectly fine referring to the two product names
> >> themselves
> >> >> for
> >> >>> the mobile offerings – where I’m arguing is to ensure consistency
> >> across
> >> >>> all of the name products listed in the table).
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Note that when we were **this close** to releasing the Metro browser
> >> for
> >> >>> Windows touch devices, the official product name would have been
> >> ‘Firefox
> >> >>> for Windows 8 Touch’ (a mouthful, I know) to maintain some
> >> consistency.
> >> >>> That’s an instance where we would have had to make some differences
> >> and
> >> >>> distinctions within the Desktop grouping. Given we don’t have that
> >> >>> situation right now, I think it’s still fair enough to simply state
> >> >>> ‘Firefox Desktop’.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So if you were to bring in OS, you can then add in ‘Firefox OS’
> quite
> >> >>> easily without any ambiguity.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Karen
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> *From:* Jeremie Patonnier [mailto:jeremie....@gmail.com]
> >> >>> *Sent:* 22 January 2015 15:13
> >> >>> *To:* Karen Rudnitski
> >> >>> *Cc:* Sebastian Zartner; Jean-Yves Perrier; mdn-drivers
> >> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Compat-data] Change "Firefox Mobile" to "Firefox For
> >> >>> Android"?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hi Karen :)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> A few extra though as a web developer
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Regarding compatibility data, it necessary to be very clear on the
> >> nature
> >> >>> of the product we are talking about.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Technically speaking, Firefox Desktop, Firefox for Android, Firefox
> >> for
> >> >>> iOS, Firefox OS Browser, and Firefox OS itself are all very
> different
> >> and
> >> >>> it's important to clearly spot those differences to make sure web
> >> >>> developers are able to better build web content for those various
> >> >> targets.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Yes, in a general context, we should call Firefox : "Firefox
> Desktop".
> >> >> When
> >> >>> the context is implicite, we never give extra name Firefox. For
> >> example,
> >> >> if
> >> >>> we build a table of compatibility exclusively for Android browsers,
> we
> >> >> will
> >> >>> call Firefox without the "for Android" part. It is pointless because
> >> the
> >> >>> context is obvious.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> When we are going to a Firefox Desktop vs Firefox Mobile naming, we
> >> are
> >> >> in
> >> >>> 2 different context.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> In the Desktop world, there is no difference in terme of
> functionality
> >> >>> between the Window, Mac and Linux platform, therefor we do not need
> to
> >> >> make
> >> >>> such a difference. Any small different behavior is only about
> >> performance
> >> >>> and/or stability and we only relay on footnote if it really makes a
> >> >>> difference for web developer (most of the time, it doesn't).
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> In the Mobile world, there is more fuzziness. Firefox for Android,
> >> >> Firefox
> >> >>> for iOS and Firefox OS Browser do not support the same range of
> >> >>> functionalities, technically speaking they are NOT the same product
> at
> >> >> all.
> >> >>> In many cases there are some huge differences (and I'm not speaking
> >> about
> >> >>> Firefox OS in itself which is also a totally different beast).
> >> Because of
> >> >>> that, web developers are seeking for those differences in order to
> be
> >> >> able
> >> >>> to do their job. For that reason, we cannot allow to simply have
> some
> >> >>> "Firefox Mobile" entry on MDN. There are too many differences to
> >> handle
> >> >>> them through simple footnotes.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So yes, In terme of branding, it's all about Firefox. But in terme
> of
> >> >>> technic there are many differences that we must document on MDN and
> >> doing
> >> >>> this under a unique branding will be more damaging than helping.
> >> That's
> >> >> why
> >> >>> we need, in some cases, to be a bit more specific than just talking
> >> about
> >> >>> Firefox.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> my 2ct
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Jeremie
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> 2015-01-22 15:24 GMT+01:00 Karen Rudnitski <krudn...@mozilla.com
> >:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Renaming to ‘Firefox for Android’ but not renaming desktop to
> ‘Firefox
> >> >> for
> >> >>> Desktop’ still doesn’t solve the problem for brand consistency,
> which
> >> is
> >> >>> equally important in any product-facing documentation.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Therefore either rename desktop to reflect Firefox desktop, or
> rename
> >> >>> mobile to Mobile browser – Android.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> *From:* Sebastian Zartner [mailto:sebastia...@gmail.com]
> >> >>> *Sent:* 22 January 2015 13:33
> >> >>> *To:* Karen Rudnitski
> >> >>> *Cc:* Jean-Yves Perrier; Jeremie Patonnier; mdn-drivers
> >> >>> *Subject:* Re: [Compat-data] Change "Firefox Mobile" to "Firefox For
> >> >>> Android"?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 22 January 2015 at 13:30, Karen Rudnitski <
> krudn...@mozilla.com>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ...
> >> >>> o [BUT this has the added benefit of distinguishing any
> differences
> >> in
> >> >>> the mobile browser products -> can you think of what differences
> there
> >> >>> would be? I’m not an expert in MDN by any means so seeking clarity.
> >> >> Firefox
> >> >>> for iOS will run on WebKit and not use Gecko, at least initially, so
> >> I do
> >> >>> expect some differences.]
> >> >>> ...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> That surely makes a huge difference in compatibility between Firefox
> >> for
> >> >>> Android and Firefox for iOS as the browser engine determines what is
> >> >>> supported in regard of HTML, CSS and JavaScript.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So my vote would be to rename the column to 'Firefox for Android'.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If Firefox for iOS will be released before the rework of bug 1006017
> >> >>> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1006017> is finished
> >> and
> >> >> be
> >> >>> based on WebKit, a new column 'Firefox for iOS' should be added.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sebastian
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Jeremie
> >> >>> .............................
> >> >>> Web : http://jeremie.patonnier.net
> >> >>> Twitter : @JeremiePat <http://twitter.com/JeremiePat>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Mdn-drivers mailing list
> >> >>> Mdn-d...@lists.mozilla.org
> >> >>> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/mdn-drivers
> >> >>>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Mdn-drivers mailing list
> >> >> Mdn-d...@lists.mozilla.org
> >> >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/mdn-drivers
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Mdn-drivers mailing list
> >> > Mdn-d...@lists.mozilla.org
> >> > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/mdn-drivers
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jean-Yves Perrier
> >> Senior Technical Writer / Mozilla Developer Network
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Mdn-drivers mailing list
> >> Mdn-d...@lists.mozilla.org
> >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/mdn-drivers
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeremie
> > .............................
> > Web : http://jeremie.patonnier.net
> > Twitter : @JeremiePat <http://twitter.com/JeremiePat>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Jeremie
> .............................
> Web : http://jeremie.patonnier.net
> Twitter : @JeremiePat <http://twitter.com/JeremiePat>
> _______________________________________________
> Mdn-drivers mailing list
> Mdn-d...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/mdn-drivers
>

[John Whitlock]

Added as bug 1128525:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1128525

John

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Stephanie Hobson <sho...@mozilla.com>
wrote: