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Demo Studio: Only Open?
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Justin Crawford
Nov 3, 2014, 1:05:27 PM11/3/14
to mdn-drivers
Hi-
You may have seen some urgent conversation lately about the demo studio.
The engagement team and the office of the CTO have asked us to help show
off some of the coolest features of modern browserson the Firefox 10th
Anniversary (2014/11/10).
We've had to quickly make several changes to accommodate this[0]:
* New demo studio styles including a new background
* New text above the featured demos
* Allow larger demos (change from 50MB to 100MB max)
* Allow content that is not open source (e.g. proprietary games compiled
with emscripten into asm.js)
The last item on that list is going through legal review now, but it
looks like we can make it happen. However, doing so will open up the
possibility of others uploading proprietary demos, too, at least for the
duration of the 10th anniversary feature.
I'm writing today to ask whether this group prefers...
A) To allow future uploads to the demo studio to be proprietary, or
B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" --
which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary
license in the meantime
Justin
[0]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1080877
--
Justin Crawford
Product Manager, MDN | Mozilla
hoos...@mozilla.com
You may have seen some urgent conversation lately about the demo studio.
The engagement team and the office of the CTO have asked us to help show
off some of the coolest features of modern browserson the Firefox 10th
Anniversary (2014/11/10).
We've had to quickly make several changes to accommodate this[0]:
* New demo studio styles including a new background
* New text above the featured demos
* Allow larger demos (change from 50MB to 100MB max)
* Allow content that is not open source (e.g. proprietary games compiled
with emscripten into asm.js)
The last item on that list is going through legal review now, but it
looks like we can make it happen. However, doing so will open up the
possibility of others uploading proprietary demos, too, at least for the
duration of the 10th anniversary feature.
I'm writing today to ask whether this group prefers...
A) To allow future uploads to the demo studio to be proprietary, or
B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" --
which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary
license in the meantime
Justin
[0]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1080877
--
Justin Crawford
Product Manager, MDN | Mozilla
hoos...@mozilla.com
John Karahalis
Nov 3, 2014, 1:37:29 PM11/3/14
to Justin Crawford, mdn-drivers
I would be slightly in favor of (B), although I see merits for both. I don't think open-source demos are necessarily more educational. Demo Studio demos are usually big monolithic projects, and are not usually optimized for readability.
Still, hosting proprietary demos is a departure for MDN and some might perceive the change as Mozilla abandoning core principles. It's been a tough year on that front, with criticism being raised over our handling of H.264 and EME.
--
John Karahalis
Mozilla
openjck.com
----- Original Message -----
> _______________________________________________
> Mdn-drivers mailing list
> Mdn-d...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/mdn-drivers
Still, hosting proprietary demos is a departure for MDN and some might perceive the change as Mozilla abandoning core principles. It's been a tough year on that front, with criticism being raised over our handling of H.264 and EME.
--
John Karahalis
Mozilla
openjck.com
----- Original Message -----
> Mdn-drivers mailing list
> Mdn-d...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/mdn-drivers
Les Orchard
Nov 3, 2014, 1:47:30 PM11/3/14
to Justin Crawford, mdn-drivers
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Justin Crawford" <hoos...@mozilla.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 1:04:23 PM
> ...
> I'm writing today to ask whether this group prefers...
>
> A) To allow future uploads to the demo studio to be proprietary, or
> B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" --
> which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary
> license in the meantime
Coming into this late, but my $0.02: As far as I understood, Demo Studio was always meant to be a view-source showcase of web technologies to encourage others to see what can be done and how to do it.
> From: "Justin Crawford" <hoos...@mozilla.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 1:04:23 PM
> ...
> I'm writing today to ask whether this group prefers...
>
> A) To allow future uploads to the demo studio to be proprietary, or
> B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" --
> which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary
> license in the meantime
Disabling features to accommodate proprietary demos seems kind of counter to the whole point of the site - and even 10 years of Firefox, IMO. If we just want a mini-site to showcase Firefox features, I guess that's fair. But, I wouldn't like to see Demo Studio hacked to make that happen
--
Les Orchard <lorc...@mozilla.com>
{web,mad,computer} scientist
Justin Crawford
Nov 3, 2014, 2:02:11 PM11/3/14
to Les Orchard, mdn-drivers
> Coming into this late, but my $0.02: As far as I understood, Demo
> Studio was always meant to be a view-source showcase of web
> technologies to encourage others to see what can be done and how to do
> it.
Thanks, Les. Several of us discussed this intention early, and we agreed
> Studio was always meant to be a view-source showcase of web
> technologies to encourage others to see what can be done and how to do
> it.
with you that the highest, best use of Demo Studio is as a showcase AND
a learning tool. The demos in question are compiled to asm.js, so source
alone isn't all that valuable. In light of that, I instead asked the
demo creators to provide a learning resource in a blog post for each
demo. For demos we feature this way, we want to make sure people
encountering them get more than "wow awesome": we want them to also get
"hey, I can do that too!"
> Les Orchard <mailto:lorc...@mozilla.com>
> November 3, 2014 at 11:46 AM
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> Coming into this late, but my $0.02: As far as I understood, Demo
> Studio was always meant to be a view-source showcase of web
> technologies to encourage others to see what can be done and how to do it.
>
> Disabling features to accommodate proprietary demos seems kind of
> counter to the whole point of the site - and even 10 years of Firefox,
> IMO. If we just want a mini-site to showcase Firefox features, I guess
> that's fair. But, I wouldn't like to see Demo Studio hacked to make
> that happen
>
> Justin Crawford <mailto:hoos...@mozilla.com>
>
> Coming into this late, but my $0.02: As far as I understood, Demo
> Studio was always meant to be a view-source showcase of web
> technologies to encourage others to see what can be done and how to do it.
>
> Disabling features to accommodate proprietary demos seems kind of
> counter to the whole point of the site - and even 10 years of Firefox,
> IMO. If we just want a mini-site to showcase Firefox features, I guess
> that's fair. But, I wouldn't like to see Demo Studio hacked to make
> that happen
>
> November 3, 2014 at 11:04 AM
> Hi-
>
> You may have seen some urgent conversation lately about the demo
> studio. The engagement team and the office of the CTO have asked us to
> help show off some of the coolest features of modern browserson the
> Firefox 10th Anniversary (2014/11/10).
>
> We've had to quickly make several changes to accommodate this[0]:
> * New demo studio styles including a new background
> * New text above the featured demos
> * Allow larger demos (change from 50MB to 100MB max)
> * Allow content that is not open source (e.g. proprietary games
> compiled with emscripten into asm.js)
>
> The last item on that list is going through legal review now, but it
> looks like we can make it happen. However, doing so will open up the
> possibility of others uploading proprietary demos, too, at least for
> the duration of the 10th anniversary feature.
>
>
> You may have seen some urgent conversation lately about the demo
> studio. The engagement team and the office of the CTO have asked us to
> help show off some of the coolest features of modern browserson the
> Firefox 10th Anniversary (2014/11/10).
>
> We've had to quickly make several changes to accommodate this[0]:
> * New demo studio styles including a new background
> * New text above the featured demos
> * Allow larger demos (change from 50MB to 100MB max)
> * Allow content that is not open source (e.g. proprietary games
> compiled with emscripten into asm.js)
>
> The last item on that list is going through legal review now, but it
> looks like we can make it happen. However, doing so will open up the
> possibility of others uploading proprietary demos, too, at least for
> the duration of the 10th anniversary feature.
>
> I'm writing today to ask whether this group prefers...
>
> A) To allow future uploads to the demo studio to be proprietary, or
> B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" --
> which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary
> license in the meantime
>
>
> A) To allow future uploads to the demo studio to be proprietary, or
> B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" --
> which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary
> license in the meantime
>
Jeremie Patonnier
Nov 3, 2014, 2:12:56 PM11/3/14
to John Karahalis, Justin Crawford, mdn-drivers
2014-11-03 19:37 GMT+01:00 John Karahalis <jkara...@mozilla.com>:
> Still, hosting proprietary demos is a departure for MDN and some might
> perceive the change as Mozilla abandoning core principles. It's been a
> tough year on that front, with criticism being raised over our handling of
> H.264 and EME.
>
Indeed :(
> Still, hosting proprietary demos is a departure for MDN and some might
> perceive the change as Mozilla abandoning core principles. It's been a
> tough year on that front, with criticism being raised over our handling of
> H.264 and EME.
>
--
Jeremie
.............................
Web : http://jeremie.patonnier.net
Twitter : @JeremiePat <http://twitter.com/JeremiePat>
Stormy Peters
Nov 3, 2014, 2:34:24 PM11/3/14
to Jeremie Patonnier, Justin Crawford, mdn-drivers, John Karahalis
If the goal is still learning and showing what cool things can be done, I
do not think we should allow proprietary demos on MDN Demo Studio. I think
demos are not worth giving up our values for.
Stormy
do not think we should allow proprietary demos on MDN Demo Studio. I think
demos are not worth giving up our values for.
Stormy
Janet Swisher
Nov 3, 2014, 3:24:58 PM11/3/14
to Stormy Peters, Jeremie Patonnier, Justin Crawford, mdn-drivers, rnyman, John Karahalis
I agree that the primary purpose of Demo Studio is as a learning
resource, and that that should not be subverted by its ability to
demonstrate the capabilities of web technologies.
So, how can we help these stakeholders (Engagement and Office of the
CTO) achieve their goal of showcasing the web's capabilities for the
Fx10 campaign?
Justin mentioned asking creators of proprietary demos to do a blog post
for each demo. Perhaps these could be summarized and linked to from a
Hacks post? (ergo +Robert) Hacks is less closely tied to "open source
only". A blog post also seems like a better venue for a short-term,
time-bound campaign like Fx10.
On 11/3/14, 1:33 PM, Stormy Peters wrote:
> If the goal is still learning and showing what cool things can be done, I
> do not think we should allow proprietary demos on MDN Demo Studio. I think
> demos are not worth giving up our values for.
>
> Stormy
>
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Jeremie Patonnier <
> jeremie....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2014-11-03 19:37 GMT+01:00 John Karahalis <jkara...@mozilla.com>:
>>
>>> Still, hosting proprietary demos is a departure for MDN and some might
>>> perceive the change as Mozilla abandoning core principles. It's been a
>>> tough year on that front, with criticism being raised over our handling
>> of
>>> H.264 and EME.
>>>
>> Indeed :(
>>
>> --
>>
Mozilla Developer Network <https://developer.mozilla.org>
Developer Relations Community Manager
resource, and that that should not be subverted by its ability to
demonstrate the capabilities of web technologies.
So, how can we help these stakeholders (Engagement and Office of the
CTO) achieve their goal of showcasing the web's capabilities for the
Fx10 campaign?
Justin mentioned asking creators of proprietary demos to do a blog post
for each demo. Perhaps these could be summarized and linked to from a
Hacks post? (ergo +Robert) Hacks is less closely tied to "open source
only". A blog post also seems like a better venue for a short-term,
time-bound campaign like Fx10.
On 11/3/14, 1:33 PM, Stormy Peters wrote:
> If the goal is still learning and showing what cool things can be done, I
> do not think we should allow proprietary demos on MDN Demo Studio. I think
> demos are not worth giving up our values for.
>
> Stormy
>
> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Jeremie Patonnier <
> jeremie....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2014-11-03 19:37 GMT+01:00 John Karahalis <jkara...@mozilla.com>:
>>
>>> Still, hosting proprietary demos is a departure for MDN and some might
>>> perceive the change as Mozilla abandoning core principles. It's been a
>>> tough year on that front, with criticism being raised over our handling
>> of
>>> H.264 and EME.
>>>
>> Indeed :(
>>
>> --
>>
Justin Crawford wrote:
> Hi-
>
> You may have seen some urgent conversation lately about the demo
> studio. The engagement team and the office of the CTO have asked us to
> help show off some of the coolest features of modern browserson the
> Firefox 10th Anniversary (2014/11/10).
>
> We've had to quickly make several changes to accommodate this[0]:
> * New demo studio styles including a new background
> * New text above the featured demos
> * Allow larger demos (change from 50MB to 100MB max)
> * Allow content that is not open source (e.g. proprietary games
> compiled with emscripten into asm.js)
>
> The last item on that list is going through legal review now, but it
> looks like we can make it happen. However, doing so will open up the
> possibility of others uploading proprietary demos, too, at least for
> the duration of the 10th anniversary feature.
>
> I'm writing today to ask whether this group prefers...
>
> A) To allow future uploads to the demo studio to be proprietary, or
> B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" --
> which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary
> license in the meantime
>
> Justin
>
> [0]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1080877
--
Janet Swisher <mailto:jREMOVE...@mozilla.com>
> Hi-
>
> You may have seen some urgent conversation lately about the demo
> studio. The engagement team and the office of the CTO have asked us to
> help show off some of the coolest features of modern browserson the
> Firefox 10th Anniversary (2014/11/10).
>
> We've had to quickly make several changes to accommodate this[0]:
> * New demo studio styles including a new background
> * New text above the featured demos
> * Allow larger demos (change from 50MB to 100MB max)
> * Allow content that is not open source (e.g. proprietary games
> compiled with emscripten into asm.js)
>
> The last item on that list is going through legal review now, but it
> looks like we can make it happen. However, doing so will open up the
> possibility of others uploading proprietary demos, too, at least for
> the duration of the 10th anniversary feature.
>
> I'm writing today to ask whether this group prefers...
>
> A) To allow future uploads to the demo studio to be proprietary, or
> B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" --
> which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary
> license in the meantime
>
> Justin
>
> [0]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1080877
--
Mozilla Developer Network <https://developer.mozilla.org>
Developer Relations Community Manager
Robert Nyman
Nov 3, 2014, 3:43:43 PM11/3/14
to Janet Swisher, Jeremie Patonnier, rnyman, mdn-drivers, John Karahalis, Stormy Peters, Justin Crawford
> (ergo +Robert) Hacks is less closely tied to "open source only". A blog post also seems like a better venue for a short-term, time-bound campaign like Fx10.
If the people behind this are ok with a blog post, I'm happy to help them out with that on Hacks.
- Robert
> On 03 Nov 2014, at 21:23, Janet Swisher <jswi...@mozilla.com> wrote:
>
> I agree that the primary purpose of Demo Studio is as a learning resource, and that that should not be subverted by its ability to demonstrate the capabilities of web technologies.
>
> So, how can we help these stakeholders (Engagement and Office of the CTO) achieve their goal of showcasing the web's capabilities for the Fx10 campaign?
>
> Justin mentioned asking creators of proprietary demos to do a blog post for each demo. Perhaps these could be summarized and linked to from a Hacks post? (ergo +Robert) Hacks is less closely tied to "open source only". A blog post also seems like a better venue for a short-term, time-bound campaign like Fx10.
>
>
> On 11/3/14, 1:33 PM, Stormy Peters wrote:
>> If the goal is still learning and showing what cool things can be done, I
>> do not think we should allow proprietary demos on MDN Demo Studio. I think
>> demos are not worth giving up our values for.
>>
>> Stormy
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 3, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Jeremie Patonnier <
>>
>>> 2014-11-03 19:37 GMT+01:00 John Karahalis <jkara...@mozilla.com> <mailto:jkara...@mozilla.com>:
>>>
>>>> Still, hosting proprietary demos is a departure for MDN and some might
>>>> perceive the change as Mozilla abandoning core principles. It's been a
>>>> tough year on that front, with criticism being raised over our handling
>>> of
>>>> H.264 and EME.
>>>>
>>> Indeed :(
>>>
>>> --
>>>
> Justin Crawford wrote:
>> Hi-
>>
>> You may have seen some urgent conversation lately about the demo studio. The engagement team and the office of the CTO have asked us to help show off some of the coolest features of modern browserson the Firefox 10th Anniversary (2014/11/10).
>>
>> We've had to quickly make several changes to accommodate this[0]:
>> * New demo studio styles including a new background
>> * New text above the featured demos
>> * Allow larger demos (change from 50MB to 100MB max)
>> * Allow content that is not open source (e.g. proprietary games compiled with emscripten into asm.js)
>>
>> The last item on that list is going through legal review now, but it looks like we can make it happen. However, doing so will open up the possibility of others uploading proprietary demos, too, at least for the duration of the 10th anniversary feature.
>>
>> I'm writing today to ask whether this group prefers...
>>
>> A) To allow future uploads to the demo studio to be proprietary, or
>> B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" -- which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary license in the meantime
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> [0]https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1080877 <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1080877>
>>>> Still, hosting proprietary demos is a departure for MDN and some might
>>>> perceive the change as Mozilla abandoning core principles. It's been a
>>>> tough year on that front, with criticism being raised over our handling
>>> of
>>>> H.264 and EME.
>>>>
>>> Indeed :(
>>>
>>> --
>>>
> Justin Crawford wrote:
>> Hi-
>>
>> You may have seen some urgent conversation lately about the demo studio. The engagement team and the office of the CTO have asked us to help show off some of the coolest features of modern browserson the Firefox 10th Anniversary (2014/11/10).
>>
>> We've had to quickly make several changes to accommodate this[0]:
>> * New demo studio styles including a new background
>> * New text above the featured demos
>> * Allow larger demos (change from 50MB to 100MB max)
>> * Allow content that is not open source (e.g. proprietary games compiled with emscripten into asm.js)
>>
>> The last item on that list is going through legal review now, but it looks like we can make it happen. However, doing so will open up the possibility of others uploading proprietary demos, too, at least for the duration of the 10th anniversary feature.
>>
>> I'm writing today to ask whether this group prefers...
>>
>> A) To allow future uploads to the demo studio to be proprietary, or
>> B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" -- which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary license in the meantime
>>
>> Justin
>>
> Mozilla Developer Network <https://developer.mozilla.org/>
> Developer Relations Community Manager
Ali Spivak
Nov 3, 2014, 4:51:08 PM11/3/14
to Justin Crawford, mdn-drivers
I strongly prefer
B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" --
which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary
license in the meantime
ali spivak
Manager, MDN Content & Community
408-859-8260
asp...@mozilla.com
B) After the 10th anniversary, to revert back to "open source only" --
which means we might pull down any demos uploaded with a proprietary
license in the meantime
Manager, MDN Content & Community
408-859-8260
asp...@mozilla.com
To: "mdn-drivers" <mdn-d...@lists.mozilla.org>
Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 7:04:23 PM
Subject: Demo Studio: Only Open?
Sent: Monday, November 3, 2014 7:04:23 PM
Subject: Demo Studio: Only Open?
Justin Crawford
Nov 3, 2014, 5:18:24 PM11/3/14
to Ali Spivak, mdn-drivers
Thanks all. Please keep talking about the future of the Demo Studio!
I already agreed to help product teams with this major product release
by featuring a handful of demos in the Demo Studio. I apologize to the
group that this decision didn't get the airing it (obviously) needed.
The decision was made on very short notice and some of its most
problematic aspects only became apparent in the last few days.
The demos we feature will meet these conditions:
* They are actually demos, not just videos of software in action
* They are accompanied by some content that makes them educational, not
just promotional (e.g.
https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/12/monster-madness-creating-games-on-the-web-with-emscripten/)
* They are tagged to help indicate that they are part of a unique group
of demos on the Demo Studio
(https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1093309)
* They will demonstrate the modern web's awesome capabilities
They will be linked from a blog post that the PR team will put together.
Going forward, I suggest we...
1) Keep talking about how the Demo Studio can be a vital resource in the
future
2) Remove any proprietary license options after the 10th anniversary
party concludes
3) Remove or isolate any demos already uploaded with a proprietary license
4) Help the PR team find a better place to host proprietary or
video-only demos
Justin
> Ali Spivak <mailto:asp...@mozilla.com>
> November 3, 2014 at 2:51 PM
I already agreed to help product teams with this major product release
by featuring a handful of demos in the Demo Studio. I apologize to the
group that this decision didn't get the airing it (obviously) needed.
The decision was made on very short notice and some of its most
problematic aspects only became apparent in the last few days.
The demos we feature will meet these conditions:
* They are actually demos, not just videos of software in action
* They are accompanied by some content that makes them educational, not
just promotional (e.g.
https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/12/monster-madness-creating-games-on-the-web-with-emscripten/)
* They are tagged to help indicate that they are part of a unique group
of demos on the Demo Studio
(https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1093309)
* They will demonstrate the modern web's awesome capabilities
They will be linked from a blog post that the PR team will put together.
Going forward, I suggest we...
1) Keep talking about how the Demo Studio can be a vital resource in the
future
2) Remove any proprietary license options after the 10th anniversary
party concludes
3) Remove or isolate any demos already uploaded with a proprietary license
4) Help the PR team find a better place to host proprietary or
video-only demos
Justin
> Ali Spivak <mailto:asp...@mozilla.com>
> November 3, 2014 at 2:51 PM
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