Newsgroup Cancellations: Summary

25 views
Skip to first unread message

Gervase Markham

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 6:29:57 AM3/16/07
to
So, having drawn everything together, here's what I propose.

1) A modification to the Forum Etiquette document:
http://www.mozilla.org/community/etiquette.html

Stay On Topic

Most of these groups are high-traffic and read by busy people, so please
pay attention to the topic of your messages, and check that it still
relates to the charter of the forum to which you are posting. Off-topic
discussion not taken to private email, mozilla.general, or any place
where it is not considered off-topic, by someone who knows they should
be taking it elsewhere, is <a>eligible for removal</a> from the news server.

(Thanks to ChrisI for the suggested text)

2) A cancellation policy as follows, to be placed on
a new page
http://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html
and linked from the above:

Support Newsgroups Cancellation Policy (mozilla.support.*)

The support newsgroups are monitored by a small group of technical
support community members. If they agree that someone is regularly
off-topic or repeatedly violates the <a>etiquette document</a> in other
ways, that will warn them by private email (or in the newsgroup if the
email address cannot be determined). If they later agree that the
behaviour has not changed, they will notify the person by email (or
newsgroup post, as above) and then start to cancel any and all
infringing posts from that person, without warning or comment.

At least the first time round, an emailed assurance of reformation, plus
a practical demonstration of a couple of weeks in length (where the
group feels the need to cancel no or very few posts), resets the process.

Other Newsgroups Cancellation Policy

Currently, no messages are cancelled in other Mozilla newsgroups.

3) I am proposing that, initially, the team of people mentioned in the
above policy for support groups are: Chris Ilias and Nir.
This choice was based on posting frequency and percentage of
on-topicness from my stats.
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.governance/msg/ccb585940608709f
(fixed-width font required)
Both have agreed to serve in this role. Another participant declined. I
think two is sufficient; unanimity is therefore required.

I believe the above addresses the problem without being overly bureaucratic.

Gerv

Christian Biesinger

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 8:25:36 AM3/16/07
to
Gervase Markham wrote:
> Other Newsgroups Cancellation Policy
>
> Currently, no messages are cancelled in other Mozilla newsgroups.

Isn't Spam cancelled in other newsgroups?

Peter Lairo

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 8:59:53 AM3/16/07
to
Gervase Markham said on 16.3.2007 11:29:

OT: How do I set Fx to display this? I tried Tools / Options / Default
Font = Courier New

> I believe the above addresses the problem without being overly
> bureaucratic.

It does seem overly *draconian* though. I hope ChrisI and Nir don't end
up being the only supporters on mozilla.support.*. Most people are
"imperfect" (<100% OT-free) and might shy away from potential slaps on
the hand.

Anyhow, good luck!
--
Regards,

Peter Lairo

The browser you can trust: www.GetFirefox.com
Reclaim Your Inbox: www.GetThunderbird.com

Michael Lefevre

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 11:06:50 AM3/16/07
to
On 2007-03-16, Peter Lairo <Pe...@Lairo.com> wrote:
> Gervase Markham said on 16.3.2007 11:29:
>> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.governance/msg/ccb585940608709f
>> (fixed-width font required)
>
> OT: How do I set Fx to display this? I tried Tools / Options / Default
> Font = Courier New

Changing the fonts in Firefox would probably work. However, it would be
easier to click "More options" on the Google groups page and then "Show
original", which displays the original message in a fixed width font.

This link goes straight to the fixed-width version:
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.governance/msg/ccb585940608709f?dmode=source

--
Michael

Peter.Potamus.t...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 2:44:56 PM3/16/07
to
On Mar 16, 3:29 am, Gervase Markham <g...@mozilla.org> wrote:
> 2) A cancellation policy as follows, to be placed on
> a new pagehttp://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html

> and linked from the above:

why would you post info about a cancellation policy when there's no
such page:

<QUOTE>
404: File Not Found

/community/cancellation.html

We are sorry, the file you requested could not be found.
</UNQUOTE>

Michael Lefevre

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 3:06:14 PM3/16/07
to
On 2007-03-16, Peter.Potamus.t...@gmail.com

<Peter.Potamus.t...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 16, 3:29 am, Gervase Markham <g...@mozilla.org> wrote:
>> 2) A cancellation policy as follows, to be placed on
>> a new pagehttp://www.mozilla.org/community/cancellation.html
>> and linked from the above:
>
> why would you post info about a cancellation policy when there's no
> such page:

He didn't post info about a policy, he posted a proposed text for a future
policy and a proposed location for it.

If you actually read the message, the "policy as follows" indicates that
the proposed policy text followed in his message (you snipped it out), and
he said "to be placed on a new page" - obviously it's not there yet,
because he's proposing it, not informing that it's already happened.

--
Michael

Chris Ilias

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 6:19:13 PM3/16/07
to
On 16/03/2007 6:29 AM, _Gervase Markham_ spoke thusly:

> Support Newsgroups Cancellation Policy (mozilla.support.*)

My initial intention was for this only to be applied to
mozilla.support.firefox and mozilla.support.thunderbird. If it's going
to be applied to any other support newsgroup, I'd like to make sure we
have permission from the list owner of that list.
--
Chris Ilias <http://ilias.ca>
List-owner: support-firefox, support-thunderbird
mozilla.test.multimedia moderator
(Please do not email me tech support questions)

Peter Lairo

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 6:23:48 PM3/16/07
to
Michael Lefevre said on 16.3.2007 16:06:

Cool. Thanks!

Some of the stats (jay only 30% on-topic) make me very concerned about
the enabled delete-fest.

Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 8:07:22 PM3/16/07
to
Chris Ilias wrote:
> On 16/03/2007 6:29 AM, _Gervase Markham_ spoke thusly:
>> Support Newsgroups Cancellation Policy (mozilla.support.*)
>
> My initial intention was for this only to be applied to
> mozilla.support.firefox and mozilla.support.thunderbird. If it's going
> to be applied to any other support newsgroup, I'd like to make sure we
> have permission from the list owner of that list.

where do I find info about who owns what lists, like the one
for SeaMonkey.

--
Please do not email me for help. Reply to the newsgroup
only. Thanks

Peter Potamus & His Magic Flying Balloon:
http://www.toonopedia.com/potamus.htm

Jay Garcia

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 8:07:10 PM3/16/07
to
On 16.03.2007 17:23, Peter Lairo wrote:

--- Original Message ---

> Michael Lefevre said on 16.3.2007 16:06:
>> This link goes straight to the fixed-width version:
>> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.governance/msg/ccb585940608709f?dmode=source
>
> Cool. Thanks!
>
> Some of the stats (jay only 30% on-topic) make me very concerned about
> the enabled delete-fest.

When a thread is marked OT and I reply with an answer to the OP it's
still OT for whatever reason, mainly because I "mark as read" and the
only thing left is the OT ... :-(

--
Jay Garcia Netscape/Mozilla Champion
UFAQ - http://www.UFAQ.org

Chris Ilias

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 8:20:04 PM3/16/07
to
On 16/03/2007 8:07 PM, _Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo_ spoke thusly:

> where do I find info about who owns what lists, like the one for SeaMonkey.

It's at the bottom right corner of each listinfo page at
<https://lists.mozilla.org/>.
For instance, on <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey>,
it says "support-seamonkey list run by kairo at kairo.at"
Robert Kaiser runs support-seamonkey.

Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo

unread,
Mar 16, 2007, 8:36:56 PM3/16/07
to
Chris Ilias wrote:
> On 16/03/2007 8:07 PM, _Peter Potamus the Purple Hippo_ spoke thusly:
>> where do I find info about who owns what lists, like the one for
>> SeaMonkey.
>
> It's at the bottom right corner of each listinfo page at
> <https://lists.mozilla.org/>.
> For instance, on <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/support-seamonkey>,
> it says "support-seamonkey list run by kairo at kairo.at"
> Robert Kaiser runs support-seamonkey.

thanks for the info. But there's a little problem. When I
look at some of the lists, all it gives is this list is run
by "nmo at ilias.ca" or "kairo at kairo.at," or "justdave at
bugzilla.org". But, it doesn't tell you who those people
are. It doesn't say who actually runs the list.

Robert Kaiser

unread,
Mar 19, 2007, 8:47:09 AM3/19/07
to
Chris Ilias schrieb:

> On 16/03/2007 6:29 AM, _Gervase Markham_ spoke thusly:
>> Support Newsgroups Cancellation Policy (mozilla.support.*)
>
> My initial intention was for this only to be applied to
> mozilla.support.firefox and mozilla.support.thunderbird. If it's going
> to be applied to any other support newsgroup, I'd like to make sure we
> have permission from the list owner of that list.

You have my permission for m.s.seamonkey when you see this sort of
action needed in that group - I think though that we currently have a
low enough Off-Topic rate there in general. That may change in the
future, and I think you're reading the group anyways, so feel free to
extend it to that group when we reach that point.

Robert Kaiser

Gervase Markham

unread,
Mar 20, 2007, 7:23:47 AM3/20/07
to
Michael Lefevre wrote:
> This link goes straight to the fixed-width version:
> http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.governance/msg/ccb585940608709f?dmode=source

Ah - thank you :-)

Gerv

Gervase Markham

unread,
Mar 20, 2007, 7:24:55 AM3/20/07
to
Jay Garcia wrote:
> When a thread is marked OT and I reply with an answer to the OP it's
> still OT for whatever reason, mainly because I "mark as read" and the
> only thing left is the OT ... :-(

Note that I didn't use "[OT]" designations in subjects to evaluate
messages - I looked at their actual content and considered it in
context. So all messages of yours which were counted as OT were, in
fact, OT.

Gerv

Gervase Markham

unread,
Mar 20, 2007, 7:25:51 AM3/20/07
to
Chris Ilias wrote:
> My initial intention was for this only to be applied to
> mozilla.support.firefox and mozilla.support.thunderbird. If it's going
> to be applied to any other support newsgroup, I'd like to make sure we
> have permission from the list owner of that list.

Good point. I will add a list of the specific newsgroups the policy
applies to.

Gerv

Gervase Markham

unread,
Mar 20, 2007, 7:26:49 AM3/20/07
to
Christian Biesinger wrote:
> Isn't Spam cancelled in other newsgroups?

I don't believe that anyone explicitly cancels it; justdave might say
different. I believe Giganews's automated systems and the possible
threats of a Usenet Death Penalty, combined with the fact that the
groups are not syndicated to other servers, is what keeps the spam count
down.

Gerv

timeless

unread,
Mar 20, 2007, 10:20:51 AM3/20/07
to
Christian Biesinger wrote:
> Isn't Spam cancelled in other newsgroups?

On Mar 20, 1:26 pm, Gervase Markham <g...@mozilla.org> wrote:
> I don't believe that anyone explicitly cancels it; justdave might say
> different. I believe Giganews's automated systems and the possible
> threats of a Usenet Death Penalty, combined with the fact that the
> groups are not syndicated to other servers, is what keeps the spam count
> down.

I tried to write a comment in one of the older threads indicating my
general support for chris and that i had at one time done manual spam
cancellation for the older groups. i do want to be able to cancel spam
in these groups too.

Gervase Markham

unread,
Mar 27, 2007, 11:53:58 AM3/27/07
to
Gervase Markham wrote:
> So, having drawn everything together, here's what I propose.

I've now checked in these changes, and the policy is active. If, after
an appropriate period to allow the people concerned to find their feet,
anyone feels that it's not working, they should contact me.

Gerv

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages