Death of news.mozilla.org

[Andy Burns]

Chris Ilias wrote:

> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)

So where will people decamp to? I can't see any TB/FF groups on other
news servers

[WaltS48]

What else does it say in the announcements in m.s.firefox,
m.s.thunderbird and others?

I think there are suggestions there.

--
OS: Fedora 33 Workstation - Gnome Desktop
https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/get-involved/

[Big Al]

On 3/27/21 5:32 PM, this is what WaltS48 wrote:
> On 3/27/21 5:21 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>
>>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>>
>> So where will people decamp to?  I can't see any TB/FF groups on other news servers
>>
>>
> What else does it say in the announcements in m.s.firefox, m.s.thunderbird and others?
>
> I think there are suggestions there.
>

Chris took the time to make a nice write up about alternate places to go. Not sure how much traffic they get, but when this shuts down and
people migrate.... the volume will go up (should).

--
Linux Mint Cinnamon 20.1 64bit, Dell Inspiron 5570 laptop
Quad Core i7-8550U, 16G Memory, 512G SSD, 750G & 1TB HDDs
*I collect teddy bears.

[WaltS48]

On 3/27/21 6:06 PM, Big Al wrote:
> On 3/27/21 5:32 PM, this is what WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 3/27/21 5:21 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org)
>>>> and mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>>>
>>> So where will people decamp to?  I can't see any TB/FF groups on

>>> other news servers
>>>
>>>
>> What else does it say in the announcements in m.s.firefox,
>> m.s.thunderbird and others?
>>
>> I think there are suggestions there.
>>
> Chris took the time to make a nice write up about alternate places to
> go.   Not sure how much traffic they get, but when this shuts
down and
> people migrate.... the volume will go up (should).
>

Yes, he did in the calendar, browser and email support groups.

I suggest reading them.

Another alternative not mentioned in those posts is the mozillaZine site.

"mozillaZine is an independent Mozilla community and advocacy site.
We're not affiliated or endorsed by the Mozilla Corporation but we love
them just the same."

<http://forums.mozillazine.org/index.php>

Which is still around more than a year after it was announced that it
was shutting down.

[EnDeeGee]

What kind of garbage is that.

This is what I get from your link:
"You have been banned from this board until March 30th, 2022, 11:00 pm.
If you believe this is an error, please try closing your browser and
clearing your cache.
If you still have an issue, and believe it's an error, put the word
"anything" in the Search Boards text box and click on GO. Click on any
result and then click on Board Index. The problem should go away. A ban
has been issued on your IP address."


This is the first time I've been to that site and this is the last time
too. :-(

[The Real Bev]

On 03/27/2021 02:32 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
> On 3/27/21 5:21 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>
>>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>>
>> So where will people decamp to? I can't see any TB/FF groups on other
>> news servers
>>
>>
> What else does it say in the announcements in m.s.firefox,
> m.s.thunderbird and others?

Not here? I guess we're just chopped liver :-(

> I think there are suggestions there.

I just created a Facebook group called Mozilla Users. Public. I intend
to make everyone who joins an administrator or owner or whatever the
hell it is if I can figure out how to do it.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/882851658952888

Pitiful. Somebody should do something BETTER!



--
Cheers, Bev
You know it's time to clean the refrigerator when
something closes the door from the inside.

[WaltS48]

One less person to support then.

Did you try closing your browser and clearing your cache?

Putting the word "anything" in the the Search Boards text box?

What have you been doing from that IP address to be banned?

[WaltS48]

On 3/27/21 9:24 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

On 03/27/2021 02:32 PM, WaltS48 wrote:

On 3/27/21 5:21 PM, Andy Burns wrote:

Chris Ilias wrote:

Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)

So where will people decamp to?  I can't see any TB/FF groups on other
news servers

What else does it say in the announcements in m.s.firefox,
m.s.thunderbird and others?

Not here?  I guess we're just chopped liver :-(

I think there are suggestions there.

I just created a Facebook group called Mozilla Users.  Public.  I intend to make everyone who joins an administrator or owner or whatever the hell it is if I can figure out how to do it.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/882851658952888

Pitiful.  Somebody should do something BETTER!

I'll pass.

The official support forums at SUMO are the suggested replacements.

While playing around earlier today I did find m.s.thunderbird on my Usenet-News server.

If you are wondering when. Well I quote:

*WHEN IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN*
lists.mozilla.org: April 3
news.mozilla.org: Sometime after April 3

If you need to know more the post in the archives can be found on Google Groups.

[EnDeeGee]

Never been there before and don't intend to go again.
Lousy way to treat new customers. Just said f... it and moved on to new
pasture. :-)

[Frosted Flake]

The Real Bev wrote:
> On 03/27/2021 02:32 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
>> On 3/27/21 5:21 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>>>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>>>
>>> So where will people decamp to?  I can't see any TB/FF groups on other
>>> news servers
>>>
>>>
>> What else does it say in the announcements in m.s.firefox,
>> m.s.thunderbird and others?
>
> Not here?  I guess we're just chopped liver :-(
>
>> I think there are suggestions there.
>
> I just created a Facebook group called Mozilla Users.  Public.  I intend
> to make everyone who joins an administrator or owner or whatever the
> hell it is if I can figure out how to do it.
>
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/882851658952888
>
> Pitiful.  Somebody should do something BETTER!
>
>
>

Why the hell is anyone using FascistBook?

Move on to MeWe.



--
Frosted Flake

[Frosted Flake]

WaltS48 wrote:
> On 3/27/21 9:24 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 03/27/2021 02:32 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
>>> On 3/27/21 5:21 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>>>>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>>>>
>>>> So where will people decamp to?  I can't see any TB/FF groups on other
>>>> news servers
>>>>
>>>>
>>> What else does it say in the announcements in m.s.firefox,
>>> m.s.thunderbird and others?
>>
>> Not here?  I guess we're just chopped liver :-(
>>
>>> I think there are suggestions there.
>>
>> I just created a Facebook group called Mozilla Users.  Public.  I
>> intend to make everyone who joins an administrator or owner or
>> whatever the hell it is if I can figure out how to do it.
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/882851658952888
>>
>> Pitiful.  Somebody should do something BETTER!
>>
> I'll pass.
>

> The official support forums at SUMO <https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/>

> are the suggested replacements.
>
> While playing around earlier today I did find m.s.thunderbird on my
> Usenet-News server.
>
> If you are wondering when. Well I quote:
>
>> *WHEN IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN*
>> lists.mozilla.org: April 3
>> news.mozilla.org: Sometime after April 3
>
> If you need to know more the post in the archives can be found on Google

> Groups <https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox>.
>
This is also the death knell for Mozilla (Firefox, Thunderbird,
Seamonkey, and all other derivatives. A real pity.


--
Frosted Flake

[The Real Bev]

On 03/27/2021 09:21 PM, Frosted Flake wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>> I just created a Facebook group called Mozilla Users. Public. I intend
>> to make everyone who joins an administrator or owner or whatever the
>> hell it is if I can figure out how to do it.
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/882851658952888
>>
>> Pitiful. Somebody should do something BETTER!
>>
> Why the hell is anyone using FascistBook?

102 of my former usenet/mozilla friends. You can make it better, but
never as good as usenet.

> Move on to MeWe.

6 of my former usenet friends, and mostly political stuff. While I'd
like to see a lot of Dems tarred and feathered, I'm tired of only
hearing about it.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Give me all your brains or I'll blow your money out!"
--Anonymous Unsuccessful Bank Robber

[Andy Burns]

WaltS48 wrote:

> What else does it say in the announcements in m.s.firefox,
> m.s.thunderbird and others?

I'm thinking that people who have stuck with usenet, don't really want
to use forums

Would others like to see e.g. alt.comp.software.firefox and
alt.comp.software.thunderbird ?

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burns wrote:

> Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>
> So where will people decamp to?

Indicate any support for alt.comp.software.thunderbird
over in alt.config
news:icaoik...@mid.individual.net

Indicate any support for alt.comp.software.firefox
over in alt.config
news:icaoin...@mid.individual.net

[Jeff Layman]

On 28/03/2021 07:20, Andy Burns wrote:
> WaltS48 wrote:
>
>> What else does it say in the announcements in m.s.firefox,
>> m.s.thunderbird and others?
>
> I'm thinking that people who have stuck with usenet, don't really want
> to use forums

+1

And *especially* not groups/forums in antisocial meeja!

> Would others like to see e.g. alt.comp.software.firefox and
> alt.comp.software.thunderbird ?

Of course! I was wondering if it would be possible for another news
server to carry the FF and TB support groups that we're about to lose.

--

Jeff

[Andy Burns]

Jeff Layman wrote:

> I was wondering if it would be possible for another news server to carry
> the FF and TB support groups that we're about to lose.

I think Mozilla 'forbade' propagation for mozilla.* groups beyond their
own server, though a few servers did carry them, I think it was one-way
traffic ...

[Daniel]

WaltS48 wrote on 28/3/21 12:45 pm:

<Snip>

> The official support forums at SUMO <https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/>

> are the suggested replacements.
>
> While playing around earlier today I did find m.s.thunderbird on my
> Usenet-News server.
>
> If you are wondering when. Well I quote:
>
>> *WHEN IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN*
>> lists.mozilla.org: April 3
>> news.mozilla.org: Sometime after April 3
>
> If you need to know more the post in the archives can be found on Google

> Groups <https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox>.
> YOU BEAUTY!! Did anyone notice this is over the Easter Week-end?? How
generous of the Easter Bunny!! ;-P
--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.53.6 Build identifier: 20210117210643

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.53.6 Build identifier: 20210118013008

[Jeff Layman]

It was just my awkward way of saying what you proposed in your next post
about setting up alt.comp.software.firefox and
alt.comp.software.thunderbird!

--

Jeff

[Daniel]

Andy Burns wrote on 28/3/21 8:21 am:

Could some of the SeaMonkey-Project developers please provide some
indication of how this might impact the moz.support.seamonkey posters??

Will a UseNet group (similar to those that I think are being set up for
FF and TB) be set up for SM??

[Andy Burns]

Daniel wrote:

> Will a UseNet group (similar to those that I think are being set up for
> FF and TB) be set up for SM??

At the moment, I'm just putting out feelers, if there's "enough"
interest, I'll go ahead and create them and request newsadmins to carry
them.

I'm not directly interested in seamonkey, but if you adapt my proposal
to suit, and it gets support, I'll do a three-for-two deal :-)

[WaltS48]

I thought Mozilla operated their own NNTP server at news.mozilla.org,
which is separate from Usenet, and connected to the mailing lists and
archived at Google Groups. It is the server I'm using.

I did find m.s.thunderbird on my Usenet-News  server account, but as

been pointed out somewhere those are scrapped and not hosted there.

Maybe, but don't forget alt.comp.software.seamonkey.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 at 08:23:23, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):

I support both (but clicking on the above made nothing happen [my fault
I know]).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

And perhaps that's the scariest thing about the modern mob. In social media,
we haven't created a monster. We are the monster.
- Jonathan Holmes, RT 2015/3/28-4/3

[Jeff Layman]

On 28/03/2021 13:08, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 at 08:23:23, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote
> (my responses usually follow points raised):
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>>>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>>> So where will people decamp to?
>>
>> Indicate any support for alt.comp.software.thunderbird
>> over in alt.config
>> news:icaoik...@mid.individual.net
>>
>> Indicate any support for alt.comp.software.firefox
>> over in alt.config
>> news:icaoin...@mid.individual.net
>>
> I support both (but clicking on the above made nothing happen [my fault
> I know]).

Go to your usual usenet news server and subscribe to alt.config. Then
you can add your support in reply to Andy's messages.

--

Jeff

[Andy Burns]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> I support both (but clicking on the above made nothing happen [my fault
> I know]).

Yes, I knew that support for news: URLs was patchy at best, if you
subscribe to alt.config, you should see my two proposals there and could
repeat your support there?

[Andy Burns]

WaltS48 wrote:

> I thought Mozilla operated their own NNTP server at news.mozilla.org,
> which is separate from Usenet

It's usenet but without any [official] peering so it's like there own
private island

> and connected to the mailing lists and
> archived at Google Groups. It is the server I'm using.

Yes, that's what they're killing-off.

[WaltS48]

Well, I found this which may help, but if you're going to have an
attitude about it and don't want to follow the instructions, they
probably don't need you there.

<http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3072548>

Basically says the same thing if you aren't allowed to visit the link.

I've been there since 2010.

You could ask on the m.s.firefox newsgroup for help while it is still
around.

[The Real Bev]

Done. How about moz.gen too?

I participated in a rec. group creation long ago. The memory is still
painful :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
Vampireware; n, a project capable of sucking the lifeblood
out of anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to it,
which never actually sees the light of day, but nonetheless
refuses to die. -- Trygve Lode

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burns wrote:

>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>
>>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>

> Indicate any support for alt.comp.software.thunderbird
> over in alt.config
>

> Indicate any support for alt.comp.software.firefox
> over in alt.config

It's been gently pointed out to me that I should NOT have requested
expressions of support over in alt.config, that is just for discussion
of the proposal(s), not "me too" posts.

It's also suggested to call any new group "alt.comp.mozilla.firefox"
instead of "alt.comp.software.firefox"

another user has suggested a similar group for seamonkey which I will
include (though I have to say m.s.seamonkey looks in a worse state than
m.s.firefox or m.s.thunderbird)

I do wish we'd had more than a weeks notice of the groups closure!

[The Real Bev]

Hey, it's ChrisI. We should be glad we got any notice at all!

Upon reflection, perhaps alt.comp.mozilla.general would grab more users.
Certainly more "banned" users...

--
Cheers, Bev
"When your enemies are making mistakes, don't interrupt them."
-- from the film 'Moneyball'

[Wolf K]

Closing the tab, then reopening from the above link gives you a working
page.

--
Wolf K
"You know, doing what is right is easy. The problem is knowing what is
right." Lyndon B. Johnson

[Wolf K]

You can get it via NewsHosting, but AIUI, it merely relays what's on
Mozilla's news/list server.

[WaltS48]

While your bitching about your inconvenience keep in mind the Firefox,
SeaMonkey, Thunderbird, security, planning and other developers also
have to find new locations for their discussions.

You can open the Manage Subscriptions dialog at the account level to get
an idea of how many more are affected by the shutdowns. If your outdated
38.2.0 has that link.

How could they do this to themselves!!!

I'm subscribed to 15 Mozilla newsgroups and a few mailing lists not
connected to newsgroups.

[Andy Burns]

WaltS48 wrote:

> I'm subscribed to 15 Mozilla newsgroups and a few mailing lists not
> connected to newsgroups.

on news.m.o the only groups I subscribe to are m.s.firefox,
m.s.thunderbird and m.general, I don't know how active any of the others
are, in fact I just looked at m.s.seamonkey and notice they didn't even
get the courtesy of the death notice from Chris.

Even if the alt.comp.mozilla.* groups go ahead, they're not likely to
exist before news.m.o goes dark. So in the meantime can I suggest
"alt.fan.mozilla" as a place we can congregate, it's fairly dead but it
exists, and nobody can take it away ...

[s|b]

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 21:21:20 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

> Chris Ilias wrote:
>
> > Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)

Where is the original message? I can't see any reference message-id in
your headers.

--
s|b

[s|b]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 13:48:43 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

> Go to your usual usenet news server and subscribe to alt.config. Then
> you can add your support in reply to Andy's messages.

Or use a newsreader that supports message-ids. <g>

--
s|b

[s|b]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 18:14:19 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

> I do wish we'd had more than a weeks notice of the groups closure!

What a fucking asshole to only announce this with a couple of days
notice. Shows he doesn't care on bit about Usenet.

--
s|b

[Andy Burns]

s|b wrote:

> Where is the original message? I can't see any reference message-id in
> your headers.

<mailman.50.1616875885...@lists.mozilla.org>

It gets messy because of the gateway between mailing list and news
group, howardknight can't find it because it's a private server not a
usenet server

try a link to the google archive ...

<https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox/c/SxAJiCEQZAQ/m/Ct_29PwtBwAJ>

[WaltS48]

Shows he didn't get the closing dates until he posted the messages ,and did so as soon as he got the confirmed date information.

How do I know this information? It is because I'm subscribed to tb-planning, which also has to find a new home, and where they have been discussing this since 3/23 but no exact date was mentioned.

You are aware that most all of the Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey developers and other users of the mailing lists < > newsgroup < > Google Groups archive are in the same position and have to find alternatives or create them.

Okay, so sue me for not leaking the information.

[The Real Bev]

No idea. Ever since the devs chewed me out for bothering them (Their
ultimate answer was "Oh yeah, that doesn't work in linux" after I'd been
tweaking around for several days) I figure they can solve their own
problems. Fucking up the specifications/instructions is inexcusable.

> How could they do this to themselves!!!
>
> I'm subscribed to 15 Mozilla newsgroups and a few mailing lists not
> connected to newsgroups.

I suppose we shouldn't complain -- after all, how much did we pay for it?

--
Cheers, Bev
Organized people will never know the sheer joyous ecstasy of finding
something that was believed to have been irretrievably lost.
-- D. Stern

[The Real Bev]

I like that.

[The Real Bev]

On 03/28/2021 01:35 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
> On 3/28/21 3:52 PM, s|b wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 18:14:19
>> +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> I do wish we'd had more than a weeks notice of the groups closure!
>> What a fucking asshole to only announce this with a couple of days
>> notice. Shows he doesn't care on bit about Usenet.
>>
> Shows he didn't get the closing dates until he posted the messages ,and
> did so as soon as he got the confirmed date information.

I'm unwilling to give him the benefit of the doubt. Turnabout is fair play.

> How do I know this information? It is because I'm subscribed to
> tb-planning, which also has to find a new home, and where they have been
> discussing this since 3/23 but no exact date was mentioned.
>
> You are aware that most all of the Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey
> developers and other users of the mailing lists < > newsgroup < > Google
> Groups archive are in the same position and have to find alternatives or
> create them.
>

> Okay, so sue me for not leaking the information. 🤐

What, they were afraid we'd short the stock before they sold theirs?

[The Real Bev]

WTF? Why me? What idiot has some sort of automatic response to posts
in moz.gen?

Every single time I post into this group I get the following message from

ab...@namesiloabuse.freshdesk.com

with the Subject something like

#30225425 Abuse report - Re: Death of news.mozilla.org - Legal Team is
being Notified about this case...

===================================================
Hi,

many thanks for your report.

Please note this request will be addressed by our Legal Department, in
conjunction with our Abuse Team, if warranted.

If the report is applicable, we will work to resolve the issue as
quickly as possible. Please note that while we are happy to review any
claim that a domain is violating our ToS, we do reserve the right to
judge the appropriate response in our sole discretion. If NameSilo is
not the correct Registrar, we shall not be able to respond to this
allegation. Please take steps to ensure that you are contacting the
appropriate party in regards to this complaint. You can find information
on the domain in question by performing a Whois query at http://www.who.is.

We also recommend to contact the hosting provider directly, which you
can find via https://www.whoishostingthis.com/

Kind regards,

NameSilo Abuse Team

NameSilo Abuse Portal powered by Freshdesk 30225425:175916
======================================================



--
Cheers, Bev
"...and then I'll become a veterinarian because I love children."
-- Julie Brown

[Andy Burns]

The Real Bev wrote:

> WTF?  Why me?  What idiot has some sort of automatic response to posts
> in moz.gen?
>
> Every single time I post into this group I get the following message

ditto ...

[WaltS48]

On 3/28/21 6:34 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
> WTF?  Why me?  What idiot has some sort of automatic response
to posts
> in moz.gen?
>
> Every single time I post into this group I get the following message from
>
>     ab...@namesiloabuse.freshdesk.com
>
> with the Subject something like
>
>     #30225425 Abuse report - Re: Death of news.mozilla.org - Legal
> Team is being   Notified about this case...
>

Go back to alt.fan.mozilla.

You was there in June of 2018 still using TB 38.2.0, but maybe it was
current at that time. 😉

[Wolf K]

I got it too. Now there will likely be another one.....

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 at 19:20:01, Wolf K <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote (my

responses usually follow points raised):

>On 2021-03-28 18:34, The Real Bev wrote:
>> WTF?  Why me?  What idiot has some sort of automatic response to
>>posts in moz.gen?
>> Every single time I post into this group I get the following message
>>from
>>     ab...@namesiloabuse.freshdesk.com

[]

>I got it too. Now there will likely be another one.....
>

Ditto (including to the "Now there ...").

We've had something similar before: I think it's that somehow,
deliberately or accidentally, some address of a company has been signed
up to the mailing-list version of this 'group, set to send individual
posts rather than daily or weekly digest; the result being whenever
anyone posts, the company gets an email, "from" the poster, and their
system automatically responds, to the person.

Last time, they stopped after a while; this time, presumably, they'll
stop on the 3rd if they haven't fixed it before then.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Norman Tebbitt has the irritating quality of being much nicer in person than
he is in print. - Clive Anderson, RT 1996/10/12-18

[Ken Whiton]

*-* On Sun, 28 Mar 2021, at 08:10:23 -0400,
*-* In Article <SYydnS_zsKiy7_39...@mozilla.org>,
*-* WaltS48 wrote
*-* About Re: Death of news.mozilla.org

[ ... ]

> I thought Mozilla operated their own NNTP server at news.mozilla.org,

Mozilla doesn't physically operate it. Ever since it was created
in January, 2006, news.mozilla.org has been hosted on/by Giganews.
That's what Chris was referring to when he wrote "Sometime after that,
Giganews will shut down news.mozilla.org, and you will no longer be
able to access the newsgroup" in his announcement.

C:\
Yes Boss?>ping news.mozilla.org

Pinging news.mozilla.giganews.com [216.166.97.169] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 216.166.97.169: bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=54
Reply from 216.166.97.169: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=54
Reply from 216.166.97.169: bytes=32 time=27ms TTL=54
Reply from 216.166.97.169: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 216.166.97.169:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 25ms, Maximum = 28ms, Average = 26ms

> which is separate from Usenet, and connected to the mailing lists and

> archived at Google Groups. It is the server I'm using.

> I did find m.s.thunderbird on my Usenet-News server account, but as
> been pointed out somewhere those are scrapped and not hosted there.

The Firefox and Thunderbird support newsgroups can be found on
many Usenet news servers, but they're not officially distributed to
Usenet. Some renegade system somewhere is operating what's called a
"suck feed", pulling most m.s.f and m.s.t posts from news.mozilla.org
and feeding them into Usenet. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it's
one-way traffic. Nothing that's posted to those newsgroups from a
Usenet server ever appears on news.mozilla.org.

Ken Whiton
--
FIDO: 1:132/152
InterNet: kenw...@surfglobal.net.INVAL (remove the obvious to reply)

[The Real Bev]

On 03/28/2021 03:41 PM, WaltS48 wrote:
> On 3/28/21 6:34 PM, The Real Bev wrote:
>> WTF? Why me? What idiot has some sort of automatic response
> to posts
>> in moz.gen?
>>
>> Every single time I post into this group I get the following message from
>>
>> ab...@namesiloabuse.freshdesk.com
>>
>> with the Subject something like
>>
>> #30225425 Abuse report - Re: Death of news.mozilla.org - Legal
>> Team is being Notified about this case...

Maybe if we post enough here the idiots will kill whatever it is that
keeps generating these messages.

> Go back to alt.fan.mozilla.
>
> You was there in June of 2018 still using TB 38.2.0, but maybe it was
> current at that time. 😉

Not going to update TB. Every time I updated I lost something important
to me. I update Firefox (reluctantly) because stuff stops working.
Even so, I need to use Chrome (which I hate) for some stuff that FF
refuses to do.

--
Cheers, Bev
If I know that chaining yourself to a dead cow is stupid,
how come Carly makes so much more money than I do?

[Daniel]

Andy Burns wrote on 28/03/2021 7:37 pm:
> Daniel wrote:
>
>> Will a UseNet group (similar to those that I think are being set up
>> for FF and TB) be set up for SM??
>
> At the moment, I'm just putting out feelers, if there's "enough"
> interest, I'll go ahead and create them and request newsadmins to carry
> them.
>
> I'm not directly interested in seamonkey, but if you adapt my proposal
> to suit, and it gets support, I'll do a three-for-two deal :-)

Thank you, Andy. ;-)
--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.53.6 Build identifier: 20210117210643

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.53.6 Build identifier: 20210118013008

[Jeff Layman]

I'm feeling left out, as I've never seen one of these messages! I assume
it's because I use a spoofed email address here.

Can't you filter out those replies from namesiloabuse and get TB to
delete them automatically?

--

Jeff

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 at 22:34:45, Ken Whiton
<kenw...@surfglobal.net.INVAL> wrote (my responses usually follow
points raised):
[]

> The Firefox and Thunderbird support newsgroups can be found on
>many Usenet news servers, but they're not officially distributed to
>Usenet. Some renegade system somewhere is operating what's called a
>"suck feed", pulling most m.s.f and m.s.t posts from news.mozilla.org
>and feeding them into Usenet. As has been mentioned elsewhere, it's
>one-way traffic. Nothing that's posted to those newsgroups from a
>Usenet server ever appears on news.mozilla.org.
>
> Ken Whiton

Given the impending demise, it'd be a nice gesture if Chris Ilias (or
whoever) _were_ to allow full peering - or at least export of the
archive - so that they become established; this would be easier than
either creating new alt.* ones, or trying to resurrect dormant ones. If
they already exist on some servers, so much the better.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

... some language may be offensive to younger viewers. Like "please" and
"thank you". (Intro to /Off Their Rockers/, quoted in RT 25-31 May 2013 by
Sarah Millican.)

[Richard Owlett]

On 03/28/2021 03:37 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
>
>> Will a UseNet group (similar to those that I think are being set up
>> for FF and TB) be set up for SM??
>
> At the moment, I'm just putting out feelers, if there's "enough"
> interest, I'll go ahead and create them and request newsadmins to carry
> them.
>
> I'm not directly interested in seamonkey, but if you adapt my proposal
> to suit, and it gets support, I'll do a three-for-two deal :-)

I'm interested.

I have only used SeaMonkey or it's Netscape predecessors to access the
internet. I find USENET much more practical than browser accessed fora.

[The Real Bev]

On 03/28/2021 11:37 PM, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 28/03/2021 23:34, The Real Bev wrote:
>> WTF? Why me? What idiot has some sort of automatic response to posts
>> in moz.gen?
>>
>> Every single time I post into this group I get the following message from
>>
>> ab...@namesiloabuse.freshdesk.com

...

>> NameSilo Abuse Portal powered by Freshdesk 30225425:175916
>> ======================================================
>
> I'm feeling left out, as I've never seen one of these messages! I assume
> it's because I use a spoofed email address here.

Makes sense. I've never hidden this real email address.

Curiously enough, I get more spam from the private address I use for RL
friends, money, etc. I suspect a friend (one of the ones that doesn't
realize that the default is REPLY ALL) somehow managed to release it to
the wild. Gmail is really good about de-spamming that account.

And speaking of idiots, which one decided that REPLY ALL should be the
default?

> Can't you filter out those replies from namesiloabuse and get TB to
> delete them automatically?

Sure, but that's more trouble than it's worth. I wish TB had a more
reliable method of selecting junk -- every once in a while mail from a
friend gets put into the junk file so I have to check before emptying
it. Gmail makes similar errors, but it picks up so much junk that I
only check it at the website when I'm missing something.

Yeahyeahyeah, how much are we paying....

--
Cheers, Bev
Eat right. Stay fit. Die anyway.

[s|b]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 15:34:14 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> WTF? Why me? What idiot has some sort of automatic response to posts
> in moz.gen?
>
> Every single time I post into this group I get the following message from
>
> ab...@namesiloabuse.freshdesk.com
>
> with the Subject something like

Same here. Got one from sup...@cs.keranique.com as well. My Reply-To is
valid, but those e-mails are sent directly to my Junk folder.

--
s|b

[s|b]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 16:35:28 -0400, WaltS48 wrote:

> > What a fucking asshole to only announce this with a couple of days
> > notice. Shows he doesn't care on bit about Usenet.

> Shows he didn't get the closing dates until he posted the messages ,and
> did so as soon as he got the confirmed date information.

If that is the case, I apologize. When I posted that follow-up I
couldn't even see the original message, so I was under the impression
this wasn't even posted on the newsgroup(s).

So let me rephrase:

The people who decided this are fucking assholes, to only announce this
with a couple of days notice. Shows they don't care one bit about
Usenet.

--
s|b

[s|b]

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 07:20:41 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

> I'm thinking that people who have stuck with usenet, don't really want
> to use forums

I try to avoid them. One of the biggest disadvantages is that you can't
kill filter messages.

> Would others like to see e.g. alt.comp.software.firefox and
> alt.comp.software.thunderbird ?

I'd subscribe.

--
s|b

[s|b]

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 22:12:34 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> > Why the hell is anyone using FascistBook?

> 102 of my former usenet/mozilla friends. You can make it better, but
> never as good as usenet.

I deleted my account a couple of years ago. Not going back.

--
s|b

[The Real Bev]

Or their users. User since 1994, but did they ever say thanks? Yeah,
right!

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 at 20:58:44, s|b <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote (my

responses usually follow points raised):

I've had both too (and this post'll probably trigger another one).
Probably not worth worrying about them now - I strongly suspect they're
triggered by the mailing-list form of this newsgroup, which apparently
will cease to operate in five days.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Where [other presenters] tackle the world with a box of watercolours, he
takes a spanner. - David Butcher (on Guy Martin), RT 2015/1/31-2/6

[Sjouke Burry]

On 28.03.21 8:20, Andy Burns wrote:
> WaltS48 wrote:
>

>> What else does it say in the announcements in m.s.firefox,
>> m.s.thunderbird and others?

>
> I'm thinking that people who have stuck with usenet, don't really want
> to use forums
>

> Would others like to see e.g. alt.comp.software.firefox and
> alt.comp.software.thunderbird ?
>
>

Yep. ;)

[The Real Bev]

alt.fan.mozilla already exists and is mostly empty except for some
ancient spam in Italian. And maybe us.

--
Cheers, Bev
Todd Flanders' hobbies include being quiet on long rides,
clapping to songs and diabetes.

[Andy Burns]

The Real Bev wrote:

> alt.fan.mozilla already exists and is mostly empty except for some
> ancient spam in Italian.  And maybe us.

It'll do in the short term to cover the likely "gap" between
mozilla.support.* going away and alt.comp.software.* getting created,
and if for $REASONS they don't get created, it may have to do long term...

[Daniel]

Andy Burns wrote on 28/3/21 8:21 am:

> Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>

> So where will people decamp to?  I can't see any TB/FF groups on other
> news servers
>

In reading the posts to this thread I'm starting to wonder ....

Could the END of development on the FireFox Browser be in the wind??

Sure, FF burst on to the scene (after being extracted from the Mozilla
Suite) to a lot of acclaim, but, over the years, other programs (notably
Chrome with the support of Google behind it!) have eclipsed it so that
its market share has dwindled ... if not evaporated.

So, with the closure of news.mozilla.org, is Mozilla FireFox long for
this world??

[Andy Burns]

Daniel wrote:

> Could the END of development on the FireFox Browser be in the wind??

Surely they have to the keep the developers in order to pay the trapeze
artists :-P

[Andy Burns]

Richard Owlett wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> I'm not directly interested in seamonkey, but if you adapt my proposal
>> to suit, and it gets support, I'll do a three-for-two deal :-)
>
> I'm interested.
>
> I have only used SeaMonkey or it's Netscape predecessors to access the
> internet. I find USENET much more practical than browser accessed fora.

Is the existence of n.p.m.seamonkey sufficient for you guys, so that a
new alt.comp.software.seamonkey isn't required?

[Wolf K]

On 2021-03-28 20:00, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 at 19:20:01, Wolf K <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote (my
> responses usually follow points raised):
>> On 2021-03-28 18:34, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> WTF?  Why me?  What idiot has some sort of automatic response to
>>> posts  in moz.gen?
>>>  Every single time I post into this group I get the following message
>>> from
>>>       ab...@namesiloabuse.freshdesk.com
> []
>> I got it too. Now there will likely be another one.....
>>
> Ditto (including to the "Now there ...").
>
> We've had something similar before: I think it's that somehow,
> deliberately or accidentally, some address of a company has been signed
> up to the mailing-list version of this 'group, set to send individual
> posts rather than daily or weekly digest; the result being whenever
> anyone posts, the company gets an email, "from" the poster, and their
> system automatically responds, to the person.
>
> Last time, they stopped after a while; this time, presumably, they'll
> stop on the 3rd if they haven't fixed it before then.

I think you've got it.

Slight wrinkle: Since I got that auto-reply, I also got several spam
telling me about some payment "C0nfirmation". So at least one of those
companies' servers is infected.

[Ray_Net]

Andy Burns wrote on 27-03-21 22:21:

> Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>
> So where will people decamp to?  I can't see any TB/FF groups on other
> news servers
>
>

I have been told to go to IRC "freenode" into: "#seamonkey"
Sujet de #SeaMonkey choisi par ewong!~ezio_audi@SeaMonkey/dev/ewong (Thu
Mar 11 01:23:26 2021)
where it's written;
Logs: https://freenode.logbot.info/seamonkey/
AND ...
 I tried to go to freenode.logbot.info/seamonkey and my anti-virus says
: NO ENTRY - there is a trojan

[Ray_Net]

Andy Burns wrote on 30-03-21 13:54:

On the news-server news.aioe.org
I see mozilla.support.seamonkey

Will this also be removed soon ?

[WaltS48]

Use Chatzilla, set up an account, and join the channel?

Not much goes on there except development discussion and meetings every
other Sunday.

I have seen some support questions.

[Andy Burns]

Ray_Net wrote:

> On the news-server news.aioe.org
> I see mozilla.support.seamonkey

Yes, but it only receives traffic from news.mozilla.org, it doesn't send
it back, so you'll only communicate with fellow aioe users, not

> Will this also be removed soon ?

Depends if giganews rmgroup all the groups before turning the server
off, but even if they don't it'll stop receiving articles from
news.mozilla.org, so will feel somewhat lonely ...

[s|b]

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 19:57:21 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> alt.fan.mozilla already exists and is mostly empty except for some
> ancient spam in Italian. And maybe us.

Well, since they're closing down mozilla. I'm not really a fan
anymore...

--
s|b

[s|b]

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:50:33 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> Or their users. User since 1994, but did they ever say thanks? Yeah,
> right!

They thanked me when I bought one of their 'I support Mozilla' T-shirts
for $30.

--
s|b

[s|b]

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 21:49:28 +1100, Daniel wrote:

> Could the END of development on the FireFox Browser be in the wind??

Firefox

> Sure, FF

Fx (or fx)

<https://website-archive.mozilla.org/www.mozilla.org/firefox_releasenotes/en-us/firefox/releases/1.5>

--
s|b

[WaltS48]

The Mozilla Corporation and Mozilla Foundation are closing down?

Have fun with Edge or Chrome.

What are their mailing lists, newsgroups locations?

[Frosted Flake]

+1 (or -1) as the case may be

--
Frosted Flake

[Ray_Net]

WaltS48 wrote on 30-03-21 18:10:

> On 3/30/21 11:43 AM, Ray_Net wrote:
>> Andy Burns wrote on 27-03-21 22:21:
>>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org)
>>>> and mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>>>
>>> So where will people decamp to?  I can't see any TB/FF groups on
>>> other news servers
>>>
>>>
>> I have been told to go to IRC "freenode" into: "#seamonkey"
>> Sujet de #SeaMonkey choisi par ewong!~ezio_audi@SeaMonkey/dev/ewong
>> (Thu Mar 11 01:23:26 2021)
>> where it's written;
>> Logs: https://freenode.logbot.info/seamonkey/
>> AND ...
>>  I tried to go to freenode.logbot.info/seamonkey and my anti-virus
>
>> says : NO ENTRY - there is a trojan
>
> Use Chatzilla, set up an account, and join the channel?

The trojan is not on he irc server nor on the irc program .. the trojan
is on the website  https://freenode.logbot.info/seamonkey/

[The Real Bev]

"Loyalty -- what's left when love dies." -- B. Ashley

--
Cheers,
Bev
"The Flat Earth Society has members all over the globe."
-- Bob Henson

[The Real Bev]

Generous of them!

Buy a cheap white t-shirt and a fat red sharpie. I seem to remember
seeing a mozilla stencil for carving a Hallowe'en pumpkin...

[WaltS48]

On 3/27/21 5:21 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>
> So where will people decamp to?  I can't see any TB/FF groups on other
> news servers
>
>

My Daily 89.0a1 looks strange with the account removed.

This will take some getting used to, and what will I do with the extra time.

[s|b]

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 20:47:23 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:

> Buy a cheap white t-shirt and a fat red sharpie. I seem to remember
> seeing a mozilla stencil for carving a Hallowe'en pumpkin...

Apparently, it's a rare item!

<https://www.grailed.com/listings/13788593-microsoft-x-streetwear-x-very-rare-rare-mozilla-firefox-microsoft-big-logo-tshirt>

I can sell it and make a 4 dollar profit.

--
s|b

[The Real Bev]

On 03/31/2021 08:59 AM, WaltS48 wrote:
> On 3/27/21 5:21 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Chris Ilias wrote:
>>
>>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>>
>> So where will people decamp to? I can't see any TB/FF groups on other
>> news servers
>>
> My Daily 89.0a1 looks strange with the account removed.
>
> This will take some getting used to, and what will I do with the extra time.

Have you tried knitting? If your time is worth nothing you can make
what will seem to be a REALLY expensive sweater.

I wonder what Chris will do with his spare time and vitriol...

--
Cheers, Bev
"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of
entrusting a man like him with the presidency." -- Unknown

[Daniel]

s|b wrote on 1/4/21 3:34 am:

Very, very, rare!! So rare I don't even see a image of the T-shirt!! ;-P

[PietB]

WaltS48 wrote:
> My Daily 89.0a1 looks strange with the account removed.
> This will take some getting used to, and what will I do with the extra time.

This may give you some inspiration:
https://putthekettleon.ca/simple-pleasures-in-life/
;-)

-p

[PietB]

WaltS48 wrote:
> The Mozilla Corporation and Mozilla Foundation are closing down?

Not yet.
First a renaming operation has to be completed:
from Thunderbird to Thunderbye.

-p

[PietB]

Ken Whiton wrote:
> he Firefox and Thunderbird support newsgroups can be found on
> many Usenet news servers, but they're not officially distributed to
> Usenet. Some renegade system somewhere is operating what's called a
> "suck feed", pulling most m.s.f and m.s.t posts from news.mozilla.org
> and feeding them into Usenet.

A bit of reality: some kind soul is gatewaying m.s.* posts to
the larger Usenet. Great idea, great service but unfortunately
limited by Mozilla's shortsightedness that blocks posts/replies
from being fed into their Usenet cocoon. Allowing such backfeed
would have been a great service, thanks in particular to all the
kind souls voluntarily helping/advising people here.

-p

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burns wrote:

> Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> Mozilla is shutting down the newsgroup server (news.mozilla.org) and
>> mailing lists (list.mozilla.org)
>

> I can't see any TB/FF groups on other news servers

The three new groups

alt.comp.software.firefox
alt.comp.software.thunderbird
alt.comp.software.seamonkey

have been created, no doubt population around the various usenet servers
will be slow. At the moment they only exist on news.aioe.org and one or
two other servers, I've requested them on a few servers that I use, but
will request them on more servers over the next few days. If they don't
show up on servers that you use, feel free to request them there.

Treat the new groups as substitutes for

mozilla.support.firefox
mozilla.support.thunderbird
mozilla.support.seamonkey

Clearly the new groups are not affiliated with Mozilla in any way, and
will provide user-to-user support, hoping to see familiar faces there,
play nice ...

[Sailfish]

My bloviated meandering follows what Andy Burns graced us with on
4/2/2021 12:21 PM:

Any chance you can create:

alt.comp.moz.general or
alt.comp.moz.ot

group to replace the mozilla.general for extended off-topic discussions?

--
Sailfish
CDC Covid19 Trends: https://www.facebook.com/groups/624208354841034
Rare Mozilla Stuff: http://tinyurl.com/z86x3sg

[Daniel]

PietB wrote on 2/4/21 9:20 pm:

> Ken Whiton wrote:
>> he Firefox and Thunderbird support newsgroups can be found on
>> many Usenet news servers, but they're not officially distributed to
>> Usenet. Some renegade system somewhere is operating what's called a
>> "suck feed", pulling most m.s.f and m.s.t posts from news.mozilla.org
>> and feeding them into Usenet.
>
> A bit of reality: some kind soul is gatewaying m.s.* posts to
> the larger Usenet.

What might have happened to the amount of SPAM the mozilla groups would
have received if the UseNet connection had gone two-way??

The connection to Groups.Google was bad enough!

> Great idea, great service but unfortunately
> limited by Mozilla's shortsightedness that blocks posts/replies
> from being fed into their Usenet cocoon. Allowing such backfeed
> would have been a great service, thanks in particular to all the
> kind souls voluntarily helping/advising people here.
>
> -p
>

Thanks to all for the help given to me over the years, too!

[Grant Taylor]

On 4/2/21 7:12 PM, Daniel wrote:
> What might have happened to the amount of SPAM the mozilla groups would
> have received if the UseNet connection had gone two-way??

It depends.

If the group was configured as a moderated group and funneled messages
through the mailing list and associated moderation, then I think things
would be relatively decent.

Yes there are ways around moderation, but I don't (knowingly) see abuse
of that.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

[Rink]

Op 2-4-2021 om 12:06 schreef PietB:

Thanks for the link, Piet!

Rink