Firefox and Thunderbird on Vista

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sra...@microsoft.com

unread,
Aug 19, 2006, 3:52:20 PM8/19/06
to
Schroepfer and all:

I sent this invitation to st...@mozilla.org as well, but in case their
spam filters are set to block @microsoft.com email addresses, I'm
posting here.

I am the Director of the Open Source Software Lab at Microsoft, and I'm
writing to see if you are open to some 1:1 support in getting Firefox
and Thunderbird to run on Vista.

As part of my mission as an advocate for open source applications on
Windows, I've gotten spaces set aside at the Windows Vista Readiness
ISV Lab. In the past the company has only invited commercial software
developers to these labs. I'm committed to evolving our thinking
beyond commercial companies to include open source projects, so I went
to the non-trivial effort of getting slots for non-commercial open
source projects.

The lab itself is a 4-day event held in Redmond every week through
December 2006; we provide secure office space for 4 people, hardware,
VPN access, and 1:1 access to product team developers and support
staff.

If you're interested, please send email to sra...@microsoft.com,
jca...@microsoft.com, and mfra...@microsoft.com - I'm on vacation
through 8/27, but Jamie Cannon and Michael Francisco will help you get
tracked in.

You can learn a little more about my lab on our site,
http://port25.technet.com.

Best regards,
Sam Ramji
Director, Open Source Software Lab
Microsoft Corporation
(510)913-6495
sra...@microsoft.com

mtsc...@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 21, 2006, 1:29:09 PM8/21/06
to
Sam,

I believe we are already in contact with your team via email. We will
follow-up there.

Best,

Mike

sir...@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 21, 2006, 4:19:03 PM8/21/06
to
great!

sir...@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 21, 2006, 4:19:13 PM8/21/06
to
great!

See you soon.

Peter Lairo

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Aug 22, 2006, 3:26:43 AM8/22/06
to
sra...@microsoft.com wrote on 19.08.2006 21:52:
> I sent this invitation to st...@mozilla.org as well, but in case their
> spam filters are set to block @microsoft.com email addresses...

ROTFLMAO. That's just too funny! :-D
--
Regards,

Peter Lairo

Lame attempt to get rich: http://www.lairo.com/donations.html

andre....@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 22, 2006, 9:01:33 AM8/22/06
to
sra...@microsoft.com wrote on 19.08.2006 21:52:
> > I sent this invitation to st...@mozilla.org as well, but in case their
> > spam filters are set to block @microsoft.com email addresses...

Nice to see that M$ still has People with Humor on their Side.....;-)

evilg...@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 22, 2006, 10:36:40 AM8/22/06
to
Just out of curiosity, since when does Microsoft have an Open Source
department?

beltzner

unread,
Aug 22, 2006, 11:35:23 AM8/22/06
to sra...@microsoft.com, dev. planning, Dev-Apps-Firefox
On 19 Aug 2006 12:52:20 -0700, sra...@microsoft.com

<sra...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> I sent this invitation to st...@mozilla.org as well, but in case their
> spam filters are set to block @microsoft.com email addresses, I'm
> posting here.

Heh, no such blocking exists, I assure you. For what it's worth,
though, st...@mozilla.org isn't the list that it sounds like. Email
about partnering with Mozilla Corporation should go to
part...@mozilla.com, and general discussion with the entire community
should go, well, in places like this (although I think, for future
reference, cc's to mozilla.dev.apps.firefox and
mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird would be good, too).

:)

> I am the Director of the Open Source Software Lab at Microsoft, and I'm
> writing to see if you are open to some 1:1 support in getting Firefox
> and Thunderbird to run on Vista.

As Mike Schroepfer indicated, I think we're already in discussion with
someone on your team about this, but for the record: yes, we'd
definitely be interested in getting some 1:1 support. We have, of
course, been testing on Vista, and Rob Strong has done some work with
Ed Averett to ensure that we take advantage of the new "Default
Program" infrastructure.

Other areas that I think both Firefox and Thunderbird should investigate are:

- effects of running in the new application security mode
- interacting/integrating with InfoCard
- integration with the common RSS data store and services
- integration with the Vista calendar and address book

Any others that you know of?

> developers to these labs. I'm committed to evolving our thinking
> beyond commercial companies to include open source projects, so I went
> to the non-trivial effort of getting slots for non-commercial open
> source projects.

The facility and program that you describe should really help to
ensure that we get the proper integration issues looked at for Firefox
2 and Thunderbird 2. Do you know if there are any spots for other open
source groups that are using Firefox/XULRunner as a platform such as
Songbird and Democracy, or Flock?

Alternatively, are you going to be linking to MSDN resources (such as
documentation and sample code, or even testing tools?) that could help
open source projects such as Mozilla understand what the major changes
will be for Windows Application Developers? Something like a checklist
of the most common OS integration points that have changed from
Windows XP would be extremely useful, and would also be accessible to
organizations that can't afford to send people to Redmond.

> You can learn a little more about my lab on our site,
> http://port25.technet.com.

Interesting blogs, thanks for the links. Looking forward to seeing
this new Lab evolve and join into the OSS community at large.

cheers,
mike

--
/ mike beltzner / phenomenologist / mozilla corporation /

Robert Strong

unread,
Aug 22, 2006, 2:06:45 PM8/22/06
to dev-pl...@lists.mozilla.org
evilg...@gmail.com wrote:
> Just out of curiosity, since when does Microsoft have an Open Source
> department?
>
Not sure when they made the department but I have known people at
Microsoft that released open source software back in the late 90's...
they had a funky license back then but it was open source.

-Robert

Bieber

unread,
Aug 22, 2006, 3:32:43 PM8/22/06
to

sra...@microsoft.com wrote:

> In the past the company has only invited commercial software
> developers to these labs.

How, exactly, is Mozilla, Firefox, and etc. not commercial software?
It's used by businesses, consumers, and businesses all over the world,
and the company that produces it makes a very handy profit. Freedom
and commerciality aren't mutually exclusive...

ofj...@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 22, 2006, 7:47:39 PM8/22/06
to
Well, I guess "commercial software" is only commercial to MS if it's
making them a profit...

JarrE

unread,
Aug 23, 2006, 2:40:21 AM8/23/06
to
On 22.08.2006 17:35, beltzner wrote:
> On 19 Aug 2006 12:52:20 -0700, sra...@microsoft.com
> <sra...@microsoft.com> wrote:
...

>> I am the Director of the Open Source Software Lab at Microsoft, and I'm
>> writing to see if you are open to some 1:1 support in getting Firefox
>> and Thunderbird to run on Vista.
>
> As Mike Schroepfer indicated, I think we're already in discussion with
> someone on your team about this, but for the record: yes, we'd
> definitely be interested in getting some 1:1 support. We have, of
> course, been testing on Vista, and Rob Strong has done some work with
> Ed Averett to ensure that we take advantage of the new "Default
> Program" infrastructure.
>
> Other areas that I think both Firefox and Thunderbird should investigate
> are:

Porting their installation to MSI?

Mvh/
JarrE

gardne...@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 23, 2006, 5:51:06 AM8/23/06
to
I, for one, will never forget the principles under which microsoft
operates. They are known as the 3 E's:
Embrace
Extend
Extinguish

Robert Kaiser

unread,
Aug 23, 2006, 8:26:50 AM8/23/06
to
Bieber schrieb:

> sra...@microsoft.com wrote:
>
>> In the past the company has only invited commercial software
>> developers to these labs.
>
> How, exactly, is Mozilla, Firefox, and etc. not commercial software?

For one thing, the source is open and it's not sold.

Robert Kaiser

Robert Kaiser

unread,
Aug 23, 2006, 8:28:22 AM8/23/06
to
beltzner schrieb:

> As Mike Schroepfer indicated, I think we're already in discussion with
> someone on your team about this, but for the record: yes, we'd
> definitely be interested in getting some 1:1 support. We have, of
> course, been testing on Vista, and Rob Strong has done some work with
> Ed Averett to ensure that we take advantage of the new "Default
> Program" infrastructure.

Has work on this gone into the source already? Are there patches one can
look at? Why I'm asking is that SeaMonkey probably wants to look into
being able to hook in there as well.

Robert Kaiser

Robert Strong

unread,
Aug 23, 2006, 3:05:48 PM8/23/06
to dev-pl...@lists.mozilla.org
The only patch so far that has been checked in is for an additional
string so we could get it in before the string freeze. There are docs on
SPAD (Set Program Access and Defaults) and SUD (Set User Defaults) on
http://devreadiness.org/

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=336469 is for the installer
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=339306 is for the app

Robert

Robert Kaiser

unread,
Aug 23, 2006, 5:57:52 PM8/23/06
to
Robert Strong schrieb:

Thanks, I guess those pointers can be helpful (I don't understand the
code but I'm cross-posting this to m.d.a.seamonkey so our people can
look into stuff that we might need there).

Robert Kaiser

Telepathx

unread,
Aug 23, 2006, 8:36:17 PM8/23/06
to
Obviously a way to cement the use of Vista by grabbing onto the tails
of Firefox popularity, a way to market Vista with relation to Firefox,
get some inside info on how Firefox developers think, and definitely
worried about The Goog. A brain drain?? If it looks like a duck, quacks
like a duck, then what is it? Hmmm come to think about it...what ever
happend with that Sun / Java deal? You better read your contracts for
participation. Me thinks someone is having difficulty with an issue and
they need some help or maybe no creativity. Marketing geniuses...Very
sneaky says Yoda.

Hasan Ahmad

unread,
Aug 24, 2006, 5:09:14 AM8/24/06
to
If you want to change your enemy, you need the first E, unless ofcourse
your aim is to use the last E

jerne...@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 24, 2006, 5:30:29 AM8/24/06
to

sorry.. but msi is the worst installer ever.. next to the installshield
(from personal experiences). i think mozilla should stick to their own
installer.

adam....@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 25, 2006, 12:18:14 AM8/25/06
to
Guys, I understand that the thought of receiving assistance in
integrating with Vista is tempting, but this is the last company one
should trust. Once you walk in the door at Microsoft, you open yourself
and all the Mozilla projects up to patent and copyright lawsuits.

I love Firefox, Thunderbird and very much appreciate the hard working
developers who contribute to these projects. For your sake and ours,
please stay away from Redmond.

Mike Shaver

unread,
Aug 25, 2006, 12:29:30 AM8/25/06
to adam....@gmail.com, dev-pl...@lists.mozilla.org
On 24 Aug 2006 21:18:14 -0700, adam....@gmail.com

We appreciate your desire to help and protect the project, but this is
not the appropriate forum for discussing these sorts of hypothetical
organizational perils.

And if legal issues _did_ exist, this isn't the appropriate forum for
receiving or providing legal advice.

Please don't continue this thread here; reply to me directly if you must.

Mike

kyko...@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 29, 2006, 10:22:25 AM8/29/06
to
Yeah man.. since when Microsoft have an Open Source Department.. this
is bullshit..

Boris Zbarsky

unread,
Aug 29, 2006, 12:07:48 PM8/29/06
to
kyko...@gmail.com wrote:
> Yeah man.. since when Microsoft have an Open Source Department..

Since at least April 2005, since that's when they started giving other companies
access to the Open Source Software Lab that they had had for a while before
then. See http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6058196.html for example.

-Boris

Doug

unread,
Aug 31, 2006, 1:19:09 AM8/31/06
to
Holy makeral....to me this is huge....well I'm nobody and it only
feels huge because I'm nobody...wait a minute,the new guy at Microsoft
is making nice to improve my access to his product-even though I try to
stay away from his browser....oh my..this is big...one blue collar
fella ,an old one at that...in Phoenix Really likes it when people who
do not have to ,step ouside their box......this is as big a pat on your
back as you have ever had...well from me anyway....

Pte...@gmail.com

unread,
Aug 31, 2006, 3:26:32 AM8/31/06
to

Hi. Out of curiosity. Since when does M$ Zombies have the ability to
speak human language and talk to normal people without trying to kill
them/DoS their computers?

Navin Sylvester

unread,
Sep 1, 2006, 1:03:09 AM9/1/06
to dev-pl...@lists.mozilla.org
Hi,

im not a free software fanatic who goes about bashing microsoft for no
reason. But came to know about how much microsoft is against firefox and
open office. A thin client devices and server centric solutions company in
chennai is engaged in a dialog with microsoft for bargaining a deal. The
microsoft people are much more interested to give amazing bargains if the
company doesn't install firefox and open office in their platform.

I think this people will never realise what playing fair is...

--Navin

sra...@microsoft.com

unread,
Sep 6, 2006, 1:21:12 AM9/6/06
to
beltzner wrote:
> On 19 Aug 2006 12:52:20 -0700, sra...@microsoft.com
> <sra...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > I sent this invitation to st...@mozilla.org as well, but in case their
> > spam filters are set to block @microsoft.com email addresses, I'm
> > posting here.
>
> Heh, no such blocking exists, I assure you. For what it's worth,
> though, st...@mozilla.org isn't the list that it sounds like. Email
> about partnering with Mozilla Corporation should go to
> part...@mozilla.com, and general discussion with the entire community
> should go, well, in places like this (although I think, for future
> reference, cc's to mozilla.dev.apps.firefox and
> mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird would be good, too).
>
> :)
>

Yes, this was my attempt at humor... I'd sent a note to Mitchell early
in the month but she must have missed it. Thanks for your guidance
above.

> > I am the Director of the Open Source Software Lab at Microsoft, and I'm
> > writing to see if you are open to some 1:1 support in getting Firefox
> > and Thunderbird to run on Vista.
>
> As Mike Schroepfer indicated, I think we're already in discussion with
> someone on your team about this, but for the record: yes, we'd
> definitely be interested in getting some 1:1 support. We have, of
> course, been testing on Vista, and Rob Strong has done some work with
> Ed Averett to ensure that we take advantage of the new "Default
> Program" infrastructure.

That's great - and I'm aware of the work you're doing with Ed. There
are a number of different Vista feature teams who want to work with
you. My team (the Open Source Software Lab) will try to make sure that
you don't miss any good opportunities.

> Other areas that I think both Firefox and Thunderbird should investigate are:
>
> - effects of running in the new application security mode
> - interacting/integrating with InfoCard
> - integration with the common RSS data store and services
> - integration with the Vista calendar and address book
>
> Any others that you know of?

These are all very good areas to work on. The CardSpace team (was
InfoCard, as you mention) is one of several who are looking forward to
engaging with you on campus. Parental Controls (content filtering in
the HTTP stack) could be another key area for Firefox to work with.

> > developers to these labs. I'm committed to evolving our thinking
> > beyond commercial companies to include open source projects, so I went
> > to the non-trivial effort of getting slots for non-commercial open
> > source projects.
>
> The facility and program that you describe should really help to
> ensure that we get the proper integration issues looked at for Firefox
> 2 and Thunderbird 2. Do you know if there are any spots for other open
> source groups that are using Firefox/XULRunner as a platform such as
> Songbird and Democracy, or Flock?

I'd like to get your thoughts on these and others specifically, and
what would best help these teams. Let's connect 1:1.

> Alternatively, are you going to be linking to MSDN resources (such as
> documentation and sample code, or even testing tools?) that could help
> open source projects such as Mozilla understand what the major changes
> will be for Windows Application Developers? Something like a checklist
> of the most common OS integration points that have changed from
> Windows XP would be extremely useful, and would also be accessible to
> organizations that can't afford to send people to Redmond.

This is a great idea, and my team has some spent time in the last week
specifically responding to this suggestion. They've worked with Jim
Clouse, program manager for Vista Readiness, to pull together a set of
links/resources for open source projects. We'll evolve the list of
resources as we receive new questions & suggestions.

Vista Readiness for Open Source Projects:
http://port25.technet.com/archive/2006/09/06/Open-Source-Applications-on-Windows-Vista_3A00_-Readiness-Kit.asp

> > You can learn a little more about my lab on our site,
> > http://port25.technet.com.
>
> Interesting blogs, thanks for the links. Looking forward to seeing
> this new Lab evolve and join into the OSS community at large.

Thanks, Mike - I appreciate the goodwill. This is going to be fun!

Cheers,

Sam

sra...@microsoft.com

unread,
Sep 6, 2006, 1:29:05 AM9/6/06
to
Lost the end of the URL to the "Open Source Applications on Windows
Vista: Readiness Kit" - it's:

http://port25.technet.com/archive/2006/09/06/Open-Source-Applications-on-Windows-Vista_3A00_-Readiness-Kit.aspx

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