New localization in Narro
Thorgeir Holm
we would like to start a new localization in Narro of Høgnorsk
(Norwegian hognorsk, nn-hognorsk).
My Narro user name is thorgeir
Regards,
Thorgeir
Axel Hecht
FWIW, there's discussion going on with the Norwegian community in
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=539656
Axel
Marion Gunn
Another fascinating discussion, though I don't know enough about the subject to contribute anything useful, only, perhaps, to learn something from it.
mg
Scríobh Axel Hecht:
> ...
> FWIW, there's discussion going on with the Norwegian community in
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=539656
>
> Axel
--
Marion Gunn * eGteo (Estab.1991)
27 Páirc an Fhéithlinn, Baile an
Bhóthair, An Charraig Dhubh,
Co. Átha Cliath, Éire/Ireland
* mg...@egt.ie * eam...@egt.ie *
Thorgeir Holm
Actually, it's ended. 'hognorsk' is registered now. But you can read it,
of course!
-th
> Another fascinating discussion, though I don't know enough about the subject to contribute anything useful, only, perhaps, to learn something from it.
> mg
>
>
>
> Scríobh Axel Hecht:
>> ...
>> FWIW, there's discussion going on with the Norwegian community in
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=539656
>>
>> Axel
>
>
Marion Gunn
fully grasp its complexities, to talk about it now.
:-)
mg
Scríobh Thorgeir Holm:
> <hermer Marion Gunn frå 14.01.2010 13:30>
>> There is also a related discussion continuing on
>>
>> ietf-la...@alvestrand.no
>
> Actually, it's ended. 'hognorsk' is registered now. But you can read
> it, of course!
>
> -th
> ...
Ronny Vårdal
> Actually, it's ended. 'hognorsk' is registered now. But you can read it, of
> course!
As far as the discussion internally for Norwegian Nynorsk is going, we
will not allow a third unofficial, written language common to our
current translation project. Nynorsk has a large number of variants,
and "høgnorsk" will only be counted as one of them. Norway only have
three written languages, Bokmål (with its variants), Nynorsk (with its
variants) and Sami.
Also, afaik, there is is only nn-NO and nb-NO registered as offiical
languages of Norway - there is no hognorsk-NO or nn-hognorsk. Høgnorsk
is only an older variant of the current Nynorsk broadly accepted in
the community.
--
-: Ronny Vårdal :-
"Man skal ikke hoppe så høyt at man snubler i sitt eget skjegg."
Axel Hecht
likely better than the one at alvestrand (plain mailman),
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.languages. One of the many roots of
that discussion is probably
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.languages/7934 (on the second page
right now)
Axel
Thorgeir Holm
> As far as the discussion internally for Norwegian Nynorsk is going, we
> will not allow a third unofficial, written language common to our
> current translation project. Nynorsk has a large number of variants,
> and "h�gnorsk" will only be counted as one of them. Norway only have
> three written languages, Bokm�l (with its variants), Nynorsk (with its
> variants) and Sami.
> Also, afaik, there is is only nn-NO and nb-NO registered as offiical
> languages of Norway - there is no hognorsk-NO or nn-hognorsk. H�gnorsk
> is only an older variant of the current Nynorsk broadly accepted in
> the community.
Please, you just said that you never heard about H�gnorsk before, and so
it would not be wise of you to give lectures about what it is.
Whereas is it true that H�gnorsk corresponds to the pre-1938 orthography
of official Nynorsk, this change doesn't imply a development of the
language as such, but a different political/lingustic orientation. My
use of Nynorsk in the H�gnorsk variety is just as modern as your use of
Nynorsk in the official variety.
It is also wrong to compare H�gnorsk to the general variation in
Nynorsk, as H�gnorsk has a considerably more stable orthography, unlike
the official variation and the unofficial use of Bokm�l in e.g. the
Nynorsk version of Firefox.
Nynorsk official orthography is intended for official use, and so has no
relevance as to what people are allowed to do by themselves, even in
free software!
Must I also remind you, that we have several different Sami languages in
Norway, and even if only Northern Sami is official (of practical
reasons), it would be wrong to deny localizations in South or Lule Sami
because of this reason.
Regards,
Thorgeir
Leif Halvard Silli
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Thorgeir Holm:
>> read it, of course!
>
> will not allow a third unofficial, written language common to our
> current translation project.
establish our own team. I suppose you are OK with that?
> Nynorsk has a large number of variants,
and sideform/variant form. But it is true that these two names in
reality covers several (clashing) variants. The hovudmål permits some
variation - and Firefox started out using a-infintive variant as you
know. The sideform permits both Bokmål leaning variants and Høgnorsk
leaning variants - sot 'sideform' doesn't work as a common
denominator. (It is true, btw, that it could have been useful to
register several more language subtags for the different variants of
the official Nynorsk norms.)
> and "høgnorsk" will only be counted as one of them.
Høgnorsk does not fall in under 'hovudmål' nor 'sideform'. Høgnorsk
disregards the restriction on writing fully Høgnorsk that the Nynorsk
sideform norm has.
> Norway only have
> three written languages, Bokmål (with its variants), Nynorsk (with its
> Also, afaik, there is is only nn-NO and nb-NO registered as offiical
> the community.
did not know about it. The preferred prefix for 'hognorsk' is 'nn'.
Thus 'nn-hognorsk' is the shortest tag for it. But the 'nn' prefix only
shows that Høgnorsk is a variation of 'nn'/Nynorsk. (Historically
speaking, then the official Nynorsk norm of today is of course a
variation of Høgnorsk. Høgnorsk is the modern name of the official
Nynorsk norm before 1938 - as it is practised today. The Nynorsk
movement/Målrørsla has had its supporters for Høgnorsk/traditional
Nynorsk since the the Samnorsk/Bokmål line started in 1938. Their have
been represented by societies such as Høgnorskringen, Vestmannalaget,
Ivar Aaasen-sambandet and Måldyrkingslaget. And the Høgnorsk line has
also had - and has - its forespeakers in Nynorsk youth
leage/Målungdomen until today.
Anyway, the only problem that we need to resolve is that we would like
to have our own space within Mozilla's Narro application, so that we
can work on our own localization - the thought was to focus on
Thunderbird - at least for a start. Do we have your support for that?
If not, do we need your support? ;-)
I hope no one finds it necessary to use energy on hindering that. I am
also quite sure that, with open minds, then both the Norwegian Høgnorsk
team and the Norwegian Nynorsk team will learn from each others.
If you would rather prefer that we joined the Norwegian Nynorsk team
instead of establishing our own, then I am afraid that that train has
gone. Or, we - or at least I - might contribute to the Norwegian
Nynorsk team as well. And we would then of course be respecting the
official Nynorsk norm (as this is the norm that the Norwegian Nynorsk
follows). It is not unimportant to myself that I see good officially
recognized Nynorsk rather than bad officially recognized Nynorsk - so I
would perhaps (probably only very occasionally) contribute.
But I don't think any of us are interested in joining the Mozilla L10N
project unless it enables us to use the Nynorsk orthography that we
prefer (Høgnorsk) - by which I mean: Unless we are able to establish a
Norwegian Høgnorsk team, then we will also not contribute to the
Norwegian Nynorsk team's efforts. (Because, you know, life is short,
and time is precious ...)
--
leif halvard silli
Thorgeir Holm
> I hope no one finds it necessary to use energy on hindering that. I am
> also quite sure that, with open minds, then both the Norwegian Høgnorsk
> team and the Norwegian Nynorsk team will learn from each others.
>
> But I don't think any of us are interested in joining the Mozilla L10N
> project unless it enables us to use the Nynorsk orthography that we
> prefer (Høgnorsk) - by which I mean: Unless we are able to establish a
> Norwegian Høgnorsk team, then we will also not contribute to the
> Norwegian Nynorsk team's efforts. (Because, you know, life is short,
> and time is precious ...)
That's an excellent summary of the situation. The establishment of a
Norwegian Høgnorsk team will give the Norwegian Nynorsk team valuable
input - obviously not too much on orthography, but on available
traditional words and expressions, and most of all Norwegian style.
If the debate can focus on ways to facilitate co-operation (as separate,
though related localizations), I am sure this will be of benefit for all
parts.
Regards,
Thorgeir
Marion Gunn
complexities involved, I move to congratulate the Norwegians on
providing (as illustrated below) a shining example of willingness to
cooperate at national level for the common good of one's people, which
shining example also serves to encourage workers in other countries to
do so.
mg
Scríobh Thorgeir Holm:
--
Alexandru Szasz
> Hello,
>
> we would like to start a new localization in Narro of Høgnorsk
> (Norwegian hognorsk, nn-hognorsk).
>
> My Narro user name is thorgeir
>
> Regards,
> Thorgeir
>
>
Hi,
If you can confirm the language code, at least for now, it can easily be
changed later and tell me if you want to start from scratch or from
another language, I make the changes in Narro.
--
Alexandru Szasz