Localization feedback for date/time picker

[Tina Hsieh]

Hello everyone,

Bram, Helen, Morpheus and I are designers working on day/time picker design
project.

We recently come out with a draft design, and try to get feedback in the
very early stage. Before we finalize the design, we'd like to know if there
are any localization issues needed to be concerned with.

Beyond our design
<https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TqvyE31vfNZ3KTlw1N2Ga8vy3I1WMVefMJEnkAlg9iA/edit?usp=sharing>,
we plan to provide more formats for different locales as appendixes. So far
we’ve got some information from Francesco. Please see the list below and
give us feedback:

1. Date formats:
1. dd/ mm/ yyyy
2. mm/ dd/ yyyy
3. yyyy/ mm/ dd

2. Date separaters:
1. Slash-separated: 29/03/76
2. Dash-separated: 29-03-1976
3. Dot-separated: 29.03.1976
4. Spelled out: 29 Dec 1976, 29 d'abril de 2011

3. First day of the week
1. Sunday
2. Monday

4. Time separators:
1. 12:00
2. 12.00

5. 12/24 hours
1. AM & PM
2. 24 hours

6. Holidays:
1. Only Sunday
2. Saturday & Sunday

7. Others?


Thanks for your help! If you have any question about the draft design,
please let us know.

[mousav...@gmail.com]

Hi Tina,

Very nice designs! I really like them. However, in our country first day of
the week is Saturday, and holidays are only Fridays.

Best Wishes,
Arash

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>

[Amir Farsi]

Hi Tina.1- For Holidays in middle east countries such as Iran and Arabic Countries(Not All), please add Friday to list. Maybe in so
2- For First day of the week, please add Saturday to list.
3- For Spelled out date separators, pay attention you should make it completely RTL for RTL languages such as Persian and Arabic.
4-If you really want fully localized date picker, please make it available for all of calendars not only for Georgian. Because official calendar in countries are different. For example Arabic countries using Hijri Calendar(Lunar Hijri) and in Iran and Afghanistan and Tajikistan are using Solar Hijri Calendar(Jalali Calendar or Persian Calendar)For More info look at here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Hijri_calendar
Best Regards.Amir Farsi, Member of Persian localization team

On Wednesday, May 25, 2016 10:18 AM, Tina Hsieh <ths...@mozilla.com> wrote:


Hello everyone,
Bram, Helen, Morpheus and I are designers working on day/time picker design project.
We recently come out with a draft design, and try to get feedback in the very early stage. Before we finalize the design, we'd like to know if there are any localization issues needed to be concerned with.

Beyond our design, we plan to provide more formats for different locales as appendixes. So far we’ve got some information from Francesco. Please see the list below and give us feedback:
- Date formats:
- dd/ mm/ yyyy 
- mm/ dd/ yyyy
- yyyy/ mm/ dd



- Date separaters:
- Slash-separated: 29/03/76 
- Dash-separated: 29-03-1976
- Dot-separated: 29.03.1976
- Spelled out: 29 Dec 1976, 29 d'abril de 2011



- First day of the week
- Sunday 
- Monday



- Time separators:
- 12:00 
- 12.00



- 12/24 hours
- AM & PM 
- 24 hours



- Holidays:
- Only Sunday 
- Saturday & Sunday



- Others?

[Peter Pin-Guang Chen]

Hi Tina,

>From the experience of localizing Firefox OS I would suggest adding the
l12y of AM/PM text.

Like in Taiwan we use 上午/下午 to represent AM/PM, also they should be
prefixed to the date.



Thanks,

Peter

2016-05-25 13:48 GMT+08:00 Tina Hsieh <ths...@mozilla.com>:

> Hello everyone,
>
> Bram, Helen, Morpheus and I are designers working on day/time picker design
> project.
>
> We recently come out with a draft design, and try to get feedback in the
> very early stage. Before we finalize the design, we'd like to know if there
> are any localization issues needed to be concerned with.
>
> Beyond our design
> <

> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TqvyE31vfNZ3KTlw1N2Ga8vy3I1WMVefMJEnkAlg9iA/edit?usp=sharing

> >,
> we plan to provide more formats for different locales as appendixes. So far
> we’ve got some information from Francesco. Please see the list below and
> give us feedback:
>

> 1. Date formats:
> 1. dd/ mm/ yyyy
> 2. mm/ dd/ yyyy
> 3. yyyy/ mm/ dd
>
> 2. Date separaters:
> 1. Slash-separated: 29/03/76
> 2. Dash-separated: 29-03-1976
> 3. Dot-separated: 29.03.1976
> 4. Spelled out: 29 Dec 1976, 29 d'abril de 2011
>
> 3. First day of the week
> 1. Sunday
> 2. Monday
>
> 4. Time separators:
> 1. 12:00
> 2. 12.00
>
> 5. 12/24 hours
> 1. AM & PM
> 2. 24 hours
>
> 6. Holidays:
> 1. Only Sunday
> 2. Saturday & Sunday
>

> 7. Others?

>
>
> Thanks for your help! If you have any question about the draft design,
> please let us know.
> _______________________________________________

> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>



--
Peter Pin-Guang Chen (petercpg)
Chinese (Traditional) [zh-TW] Localization Project Coordinator
Mozilla Taiwan Community (MozTW) http://moztw.org

[Michal Stanke]

Hi Tina.

The prototype looks really nice. To the formats - in Czech we use "." as
date separator and write the date "29. 3. 2016" rather than "29. 03. 2016"
(month with one digit only if possible). For the time, "9:46" and "09:46"
are IMO equally used for our language and e.g. Android is not even
consistent and uses both time formats in single apps.

Cheers,
--
Michal Stanke

[Tina Hsieh]

Hey everyone,

Many thanks for providing us valuable information! I've noted every single
format down. I'm sure the list will grow longer and longer : )

Cheers,
Tina

[Michael Bauer]

Is this for Firefox or Thunderbird or something else?

Michael

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Iomadh rud eadar prògraman oifis, brabhsairean, predictive texting,
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<http://www.iGaidhlig.net/>

[Axel Hecht]

Hi,

gandalf is actually pushing a spec for
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/DateTimeFormat/formatToParts
and this particular use-case.

The actual formatting data is coming from cldr. You can browse that (an
older copy, apparently) on
http://demo.icu-project.org/icu-bin/locexp?_=de&d_=en.

It'd be great to get feedback from UX (and l10n) on that api. Here or in
https://github.com/tc39/ecma402/issues/30 or
https://github.com/tc39/ecma402/pull/64. gandalf might know best on how
to take feedback there at this point.

Axel

[Piotr Drąg]

It would be great if we could have the Unicode ratio sign ("∶", U+2236
RATIO) here instead of the colon. It looks typographically better, and
it's used by (at least) Android and GNOME. It's a minor nitpick, of
course, but it adds a lot of polish.

Best regards,

--
Piotr Drąg
https://piotrdrag.fedorapeople.org

[Jonathan Kew]

I'd be _extremely_ wary of doing this, except in highly restricted
contexts where you can be sure of controlling exactly what font is used
to render the result. U+2236 RATIO comes from the relatively specialized
Mathematical Operators block, and is unlikely to be supported in many
common text fonts.

If the formatted time is displayed using a font that doesn't have the
RATIO character, fallback will kick in, some other font will be found on
the system, and the result may well be typographically awful.

JK

[Michael Wolf]

Michal Stanke schrieb:

> Hi Tina.
>
> The prototype looks really nice. To the formats - in Czech we use "." as
> date separator and write the date "29. 3. 2016" rather than "29. 03. 2016"
> (month with one digit only if possible). For the time, "9:46" and "09:46"
> are IMO equally used for our language and e.g. Android is not even
> consistent and uses both time formats in single apps.
>

Similarly in Sorbian languages:

http://demo.icu-project.org/icu-bin/locexp?_=hsb&d_=en
http://demo.icu-project.org/icu-bin/locexp?_=dsb&d_=en

Sorbian languages use short and medium date with period, "." but without
spaces: 25.5.2016 and 25.5.16. The times uses "09:06", with leading zero.

A special feature of Sorbian languages is that the long date uses the
month in genitive, see above links - month table for "Formatting" shows
the genitive forms of the months names, e.g. 25. meje 2016 (hsb) resp.
25. maja 2016 (dsb). For a long time I wanted to ask how I can express
it by a formatting symbol: The usual formatting symbol for the full
month name is "%B" but I think it doesn't include the grammatical case.


Michael

[Mihovil Stanić]

+1
For which app is this developed?

Mihovil

[Mihovil Stanić]

For Croatian:
1. 25. 5. 2016. or with one digit dates 6. 12. 2016.
2. as above
3. monday
4. 12:00
5. 24 hours

25.05.2016 u 07:48, Tina Hsieh je napisao/la:
> Hello everyone,
>
> Bram, Helen, Morpheus and I are designers working on day/time picker design
> project.
>
> We recently come out with a draft design, and try to get feedback in the
> very early stage. Before we finalize the design, we'd like to know if there
> are any localization issues needed to be concerned with.
>
> Beyond our design
> <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TqvyE31vfNZ3KTlw1N2Ga8vy3I1WMVefMJEnkAlg9iA/edit?usp=sharing>,
> we plan to provide more formats for different locales as appendixes. So far
> we’ve got some information from Francesco. Please see the list below and
> give us feedback:
>
> 1. Date formats:
> 1. dd/ mm/ yyyy
> 2. mm/ dd/ yyyy
> 3. yyyy/ mm/ dd
>
> 2. Date separaters:
> 1. Slash-separated: 29/03/76
> 2. Dash-separated: 29-03-1976
> 3. Dot-separated: 29.03.1976
> 4. Spelled out: 29 Dec 1976, 29 d'abril de 2011
>
> 3. First day of the week
> 1. Sunday
> 2. Monday
>

> 4. Time separators:
> 1. 12:00
> 2. 12.00
>

[Stefan Sitter]

On 25.05.2016 07:48, Tina Hsieh wrote:
> 1. Date formats:
>
> 7. Others?

Your slides show a week picker with week number. Week numbering depends
maybe not on localization but on location.

In United States week 1 is the week that contains January 1st.
In Europe week 1 is the week that contains January 4th.

Today (2016-05-25) is in week 22 in US but in week 21 in EU.

/Stefan

[Philipp Kewisch]

On 5/25/16 7:48 AM, Tina Hsieh wrote:
> Beyond our design
> <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TqvyE31vfNZ3KTlw1N2Ga8vy3I1WMVefMJEnkAlg9iA/edit?usp=sharing>,
> we plan to provide more formats for different locales as appendixes. So far
> we’ve got some information from Francesco. Please see the list below and
> give us feedback:
>
>

> 7. Others?

I can't comment for any of these specifically, but please also keep
non-gregorian calendaring systems in mind, that may have different
configurations of months, including leap months instead of leap days and
likely also other concepts of week numbers.

If you want to take it a bit further you may also want to check out the
date formats defined in vcard (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350) which
for example allow for picking only a month and day (no year), helpful
for setting a birthday for someone where you don't know how old they
actually are. There are also some more examples in ISO 8601.

Philipp

[Tina Hsieh]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the information!

This date/time picker is only for Firefox desktop. Firefox for android and
Firefox for iOS will use their native picker.

Cheers,
Tina

[Philipp Kewisch]

Hi Tina,

some more feedback I've collected from mozilla.dev.apps.calendar:

On 5/26/16 9:00 PM, MakeMyDay wrote:
> Nice stuff. This is a HTML picker for an input element of type
> date/time, right?
>
> Not sure where to provide feedback, so here's what comes to mind:
>
> * It probably would be an asset if the time picker would support
> different levels of granulation for the minutes - e.g. 1 minute, 5
> minutes and 15 minutes steps.
> * The month picker doesn't provide the option to jump to the current
> month by one click as we have it today. But this is just a nice to
> have from my pow. The same is true for decorating the current day in
> a month picker.
>
> Does that pickers work only while displaying a date/type related input
> field or is the month picker also intended to be exposed separately to
> make use it e.g. for minimonth?
>
> When will the picker be available?

[Tina Hsieh]

Hi Philipp,

Thanks for collecting feedback!

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 5:38 PM, Philipp Kewisch <moz...@kewis.ch> wrote:

> Hi Tina,
>
> some more feedback I've collected from mozilla.dev.apps.calendar:
>
> On 5/26/16 9:00 PM, MakeMyDay wrote:
> > Nice stuff. This is a HTML picker for an input element of type
> > date/time, right?
>

Yes, it is.

> >
> > Not sure where to provide feedback, so here's what comes to mind:
> >
> > * It probably would be an asset if the time picker would support
> > different levels of granulation for the minutes - e.g. 1 minute, 5
> > minutes and 15 minutes steps.
>

We proposed to make the 5 minutes step as default since we found that the
scenario of entering a specific time (e.g. 05:32) is very rare.

However, it's still flexible for developers to select a custom step.

> > * The month picker doesn't provide the option to jump to the current
> > month by one click as we have it today. But this is just a nice to
> > have from my pow. The same is true for decorating the current day in
> > a month picker.
>

Yes. We removed the "today" button from the picker.
In our user test result, we found that users would have a specific date in
mind before they jumped to other months. So for the date input field,
jumping back to current month is not a must-to-have feature. However, it'll
be more important for changing a date in calendar (which is not as same as
our date/time picker).

> > Does that pickers work only while displaying a date/type related input
> > field or is the month picker also intended to be exposed separately to
> > make use it e.g. for minimonth?
>

Not sure what the minimonth is... but our pickers are only for Firefox
desktop : )

> > When will the picker be available?
>

We're still working on this :-)