Re: New strings for the privacy prefpane

6 views
Skip to first unread message

flod (Francesco Lodolo)

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 3:38:37 AM3/20/09
to Mozilla l10n
Il 20-03-2009 7:40, Ehsan Akhgari ha scritto:
> I have landed new strings for the new privacy prefpane as the
> following changeset:
>
Why don't you try to involve l10n in an earlier stage for this kind of
UI revolution? From my point of view, that panel is a nightmare to localize.

Just an example: "Firefox will".
1) Many languages don't use an ausiliary verb to create the future form.
2) If (like us) you're trying to translate the interface using
impersonal forms, you should also try to avoid the personification of
software.

Francesco

Pavel Franc

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 5:04:40 AM3/20/09
to
>> I have landed new strings for the new privacy prefpane as the
>> following changeset:
> Why don't you try to involve l10n in an earlier stage for this kind of
> UI revolution? From my point of view, that panel is a nightmare to
> localize.
>
> Just an example: "Firefox will".
> 1) Many languages don't use an ausiliary verb to create the future form.
> 2) If (like us) you're trying to translate the interface using
> impersonal forms, you should also try to avoid the personification of
> software.

I don't like this dialog either. It looks weird in Czech.

Pavel

Mike Beltzner

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 7:40:17 AM3/20/09
to

What would look proper in Czech? Instead of simply complaining,
perhaps we could assume that the design was well-motivated and not
frivolous, and instead try and figure out how to come up with an
appropriate solution?

Please try to remember that we're all on the same team.

wladow

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 8:25:31 AM3/20/09
to
flod (Francesco Lodolo) wrote:
>>> Just an example: "Firefox will".
>>> 1) Many languages don't use an ausiliary verb to create the future form.

Mike, would you give it ui-r+ if it was just "Firefox:"? Because that's
what we're forced to do in sk. If not, we should come up with re-wording.

--

wladow

flod (Francesco Lodolo)

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 8:30:45 AM3/20/09
to Mozilla l10n, mbel...@gmail.com
Il 20-03-2009 12:40, Mike Beltzner ha scritto:
> What would look proper in Czech? Instead of simply complaining,
> perhaps we could assume that the design was well-motivated and not
> frivolous, and instead try and figure out how to come up with an
> appropriate solution?
As I've already said, that dialog implies that you're using the same
syntactical structure of English (Firefox as a subject, auxiliary verb
for future form, verb in the combo box), and that's not true, at least
for Italian.

Looking at the mock-up, since the last mozilla-1.9.1 build doesn't have
that panel yet, I also see a problem of length: a long localized string
for "Firefox will:" is likely to create a wide space on the left, as
soon as I understand that dialog's structure, and a bad distributed layout.

Possible solutions? Replace that "Firefox will:" with something like
"Available history configurations" and place the combo box under the
string, not on the same line. But it's just an hypothesis since I didn't
see that dialog on a working build (and that's another big problem of
string freezes, a lot of new strings land all together without a working
UI).

Francesco

Pavel Franc

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 9:10:46 AM3/20/09
to
Dne 20.3.2009 12:40, Mike Beltzner napsal(a):

Nastavení: Pamatovat historii
Nepamatovat historii
Použít vlastní nastavení historie

Settings: To remeber history
To not remeber history
To use custom settings for history

would be fine.
The problem with the current desing is:

Firefox si má: Pamatovat historii
Firefox si nemá: Pamatovat historii
Firefox má: Použít vlastní nastavení historie

Pavel

Ehsan Akhgari

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 10:23:05 AM3/20/09
to Pavel Franc, dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Pavel Franc <fr...@czilla.cz> wrote:
>        Nastavení: Pamatovat historii
>                   Nepamatovat historii
>                   Použít vlastní nastavení historie
>
>        Settings:  To remeber history
>                   To not remeber history
>                   To use custom settings for history
>
> would be fine.
> The problem with the current desing is:
>
>        Firefox si má: Pamatovat historii
>        Firefox si nemá: Pamatovat historii
>        Firefox má: Použít vlastní nastavení historie

How about:

Firefox: Si má pamatovat historii
Firefox: Si nemá pamatovat historii
Firefox: Má použít vlastní nastavení historie

?

--
Ehsan
<http://ehsanakhgari.org/>

Sander Lepik

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 10:37:45 AM3/20/09
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org

SanderEhsan Akhgari kirjutas:

> On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Pavel Franc <fr...@czilla.cz> wrote:
>
>> Nastavení: Pamatovat historii
>> Nepamatovat historii
>> Použít vlastní nastavení historie
>>
>> Settings: To remeber history
>> To not remeber history
>> To use custom settings for history
>>
>> would be fine.
>> The problem with the current desing is:
>>
>> Firefox si má: Pamatovat historii
>> Firefox si nemá: Pamatovat historii
>> Firefox má: Použít vlastní nastavení historie
>>
>
> How about:
>
> Firefox: Si má pamatovat historii
> Firefox: Si nemá pamatovat historii
> Firefox: Má použít vlastní nastavení historie
>
> ?
>
+1

--
Sander

> --
> Ehsan
> <http://ehsanakhgari.org/>
> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>

Pavel Cvrcek

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 11:38:28 AM3/20/09
to
Dne 20.3.2009 15:23, Ehsan Akhgari napsal(a):

> How about:
>
> Firefox: Si má pamatovat historii
> Firefox: Si nemá pamatovat historii
> Firefox: Má použít vlastní nastavení historie
>
> ?

This looks strange (in Czech).

Regards,

Pavel Cvrcek

Pavel Franc

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 12:03:07 PM3/20/09
to
> How about:
>
> Firefox: Si má pamatovat historii
> Firefox: Si nemá pamatovat historii
> Firefox: Má použít vlastní nastavení historie

IMHO that was the thing wladow is asking for Slovak.

But you know ... language is more than playing with words, capitals and
punctuation marks. This sentence fragmentation dosn't look like Czech at
all. More over, it looks funy.

The best practice is to use sentence fragments with infinitive in such
places. If you need to put it in complete sentence you have to do the
same way as it was in English "Firefox will" + "....". But here the
problem comes - I need to use different forms for "Firefox will".

Pavel

Pascal Chevrel

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 12:13:59 PM3/20/09
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org

AFAIK, French and all latin based languages will have the same issue. I
don't know what Cédric will choose as a workaround but personnally what
I would do is drop &brandShortName; in the translation and put it like
that in neutral form:

Comportement:
Conserver l'historique
Ne pas conserver l'historique
Utiliser des paramètres personnalisés pour l'historique

(comportement = behaviour)

Pascal

Ehsan Akhgari

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 2:36:39 PM3/20/09
to Pavel Franc, dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Pavel Franc <fr...@czilla.cz> wrote:
>> How about:
>>
>>        Firefox: Si má pamatovat historii
>>        Firefox: Si nemá pamatovat historii
>>        Firefox: Má použít vlastní nastavení historie
>
> IMHO that was the thing wladow is asking for Slovak.

Ah, OK.

> But you know ... language is more than playing with words, capitals and
> punctuation marks. This sentence fragmentation dosn't look like Czech at
> all. More over, it looks funy.

Yes, I know. Obviously I can't understand the above texts; I was just
suggesting what came to my mind. :-)

Another possible way to solve this is to leave the "pre" string blank,
and put full sentences inside the drop-down menu. Does that sound
better?


--
Ehsan
<http://ehsanakhgari.org/>

Jesper Kristensen

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 3:56:21 PM3/20/09
to
Ehsan Akhgari skrev:

> Another possible way to solve this is to leave the "pre" string blank,
> and put full sentences inside the drop-down menu. Does that sound
> better?

The dropdown already seems complete to me without the prefix. What is
the purpose of it? The prefix just sounds like "this is a
preference/option you can change", but so is everything else in this window.

faa...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 20, 2009, 6:59:00 PM3/20/09
to
On Mar 20, 3:56 pm, Jesper Kristensen

<moznewsgro...@something.to.remove.jesperkristensen.dk> wrote:
> Ehsan Akhgari skrev:
>
> > Another possible way to solve this is to leave the "pre" string blank,
> > and put full sentences inside the drop-down menu.  Does that sound
> > better?
>
@jesper

> The dropdown already seems complete to me without the prefix. What is
> the purpose of it? The prefix just sounds like "this is a
> preference/option you can change", but so is everything else in this window.

The purpose of the label is to make the line flow a little better when
it happens to be in English. In terms of localization, we should have
added a note about the label (I'm still learning all of things one can
do wrong, unfortunately by doing them). This would carry the same
general meaning and work fine for the interface:

Privacy Level: [History will be remembered by Firefox / No History
will be remembered by Firefox / Custom Settings]

In general if a sentence structure doesn't work, I don't think there
is much of an issue with playing with the labels to communicate
basically the same overall message. Not having the label at all would
also work fine (depending on what the drop down box says).

@flod


>Why don't you try to involve l10n in an earlier stage for this kind of
>UI revolution?

Sorry about that, this interface is indeed coming in very late in the
process. Since we added another beta and Ehsan had time to work on
the changes, we decided to see if we could get the interface landed
for 3.5 instead of waiting until the next release. Overall this is
good since it helps build the theme of 3.5 being about privacy, but it
does mean we only have a short time to discuss strings and
localization.

flod (Francesco Lodolo)

unread,
Mar 21, 2009, 2:44:23 AM3/21/09
to Mozilla l10n, faa...@gmail.com
>
> @flod
>
>> Why don't you try to involve l10n in an earlier stage for this kind of
>> UI revolution?
>>
>
> Sorry about that, this interface is indeed coming in very late in the
> process. Since we added another beta and Ehsan had time to work on
> the changes, we decided to see if we could get the interface landed
> for 3.5 instead of waiting until the next release. Overall this is
> good since it helps build the theme of 3.5 being about privacy, but it
> does mean we only have a short time to discuss strings and
> localization.
>
Hi Alex,
first of all thanks for the answer and the tip about "Privacy level:"
(sounds good).

By the way, I don't think it's only a matter of time: as far as I know,
there's no way for a localizer to know which parts of the interfaces
you're working on, we see those changes only when strings land and break
our locales (and that's too late). Moreover, I don't remember
interactions between localizers and ui designers in the last years.

I think it's time to find a system to make this interaction possible:
what about a specific e-mail address to follow in BugZilla? I don't know
how many localizers will be interested in this kind of discussion, but
it's worth trying.

Francesco

Axel Hecht

unread,
Mar 21, 2009, 5:30:18 AM3/21/09
to

Watching l1...@mozilla.com is what a few people do to get into the loop
on patches at the time that I do. That obviously gets you *a lot* of
bugmail, including registration bugs etc.

I guess we could create a fake bugmail address like
comm...@localization.bugs with something like "Localization Community
[:l10n]" as "real name" for easier CCing.

As for interactions between the UI folks and the community, there is a
growing amount of posting of mockups on planet. I know that planet is
again a lot of data, but that is a problem for all of us, to some
extent. Not sure if we have help on the horizon there.

Axel

Seth Bindernagel

unread,
Mar 21, 2009, 10:00:17 AM3/21/09
to Axel Hecht, dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
----- "Axel Hecht" <l1...@mozilla.com> wrote:
> > I think it's time to find a system to make this interaction
> possible:
> > what about a specific e-mail address to follow in BugZilla? I don't
> know
> > how many localizers will be interested in this kind of discussion,
> but
> > it's worth trying.
>
> Watching l1...@mozilla.com is what a few people do to get into the loop
>
> on patches at the time that I do. That obviously gets you *a lot* of
> bugmail, including registration bugs etc.

FWIW, I watch l1...@mozilla.com to make sure I see all that is going on with Mozilla l10n in Bugzilla. Like Axel said, it will get you a very high number of new bugmail messages, but if you use Gmail to help filter your Bugmail, I've found archiving (and keyboard shortcuts to archive) is a way to do quick bug triage. Probably not most ideal, but you do see everything going on.

Many of you may already know this, but to watch a user in Bugzilla, do the following:

1) Sign into your Bugzilla Account.
2) Click on "Preferences" in the top strip
3) On the next screen, click the second tab named "Email Preferences"
4) Scroll to the bottom of the page and add the Bugmail addresses of users you would like to follow. (In this case, l1...@mozilla.com)
5) Click "submit changes"

-Seth

flod (Francesco Lodolo)

unread,
Mar 21, 2009, 2:48:38 PM3/21/09
to Mozilla l10n
Il 21-03-2009 10:30, Axel Hecht ha scritto:
> I guess we could create a fake bugmail address like
> comm...@localization.bugs with something like "Localization
> Community [:l10n]" as "real name" for easier CCing.
That's exactly what I meant. I've tried to watch l1...@mozilla.com in the
past, but the traffic was too high to follow.

Francesco

Vitaly Fedrushkov

unread,
Mar 22, 2009, 12:51:43 AM3/22/09
to
Axel Hecht wrote:

> Watching l1...@mozilla.com is what a few people do to get into the loop
> on patches at the time that I do. That obviously gets you *a lot* of
> bugmail, including registration bugs etc.

> I guess we could create a fake bugmail address like
> comm...@localization.bugs with something like "Localization Community
> [:l10n]" as "real name" for easier CCing.

Also there's 'l12y' keyword which may be added to such bugs.

Then one can create (and even share) saved search for bugs marked l12y and/or
CCed to l1...@mozilla.com. RSS feeds for such queries are easy to follow and do
not involve so much email traffic.

Regards,
Vitaly.

Axel Hecht

unread,
Mar 22, 2009, 9:23:24 AM3/22/09
to

I don't think that the l12y keyword is the right choice here.

I filed https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=484645 to get a
watch account created.

Axel

delphine

unread,
Mar 20, 2015, 5:27:36 PM3/20/15
to
Hey all,

Quick update about Privacy Panel. Latest news is that the same day as string freeze (April 6th), they will be hiding this feature, because of too many pending bugs. (see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1132377#c0 for more details).

This is a DT-specific feature, and the code will continue existing in our master and 2.2, but will only be visible to partners who decide to use and enable it.

This means that after string freeze date, you will no longer be able to see and test the strings you are localizing for this feature. So heads-up that if you want to test your localization work on this, it will have to be before April 6th. There might be workarounds, but unsure which.

I'll let everyone know here if there are any updates to this (it is possible there might be).

Sorry for the hassle this creates :/

cheers
delphine

delphine

unread,
Mar 20, 2015, 5:29:25 PM3/20/15
to
WOOPS
this message was not intended to end up in this thread!
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages