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Firefox 18 l10n fallback
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Jeff Beatty
Jan 2, 2013, 5:16:56 PM1/2/13
to
Hi everyone,
If you've celebrated holidays in the last month, we sincerely hope that
they have been filled with fun and joy!
As you all know, l10n string freeze and merge day all happened within
the last couple of weeks. Sadly, it seems that many locales were unable
to sign off on their most recent changesets for them to release with
Firefox 18. This link shows all the current shipping locales and their
most up-to-date version of Firefox desktop
(https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/app/locale-changes/fx18).
This quarter we will be experimenting with a process for l10n teams to
start setting some goals around catching up with translation work, and
communicating those goals to l10n-drivers and people that can help out
translation, testing, reviews and sign-offs. The idea is to do some
planning on what's needed to catch up, set goals at the beginning of
each quarter and then track the goals thought to the end of each
quarter. We hope that this will help us understand and respect your time
and commitment availability.
Please either respond to this thread or get in touch with me so we can
start 2013 off with a bang!
Thank you all for your time, effort, and dedication.
Jeff
If you've celebrated holidays in the last month, we sincerely hope that
they have been filled with fun and joy!
As you all know, l10n string freeze and merge day all happened within
the last couple of weeks. Sadly, it seems that many locales were unable
to sign off on their most recent changesets for them to release with
Firefox 18. This link shows all the current shipping locales and their
most up-to-date version of Firefox desktop
(https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/app/locale-changes/fx18).
This quarter we will be experimenting with a process for l10n teams to
start setting some goals around catching up with translation work, and
communicating those goals to l10n-drivers and people that can help out
translation, testing, reviews and sign-offs. The idea is to do some
planning on what's needed to catch up, set goals at the beginning of
each quarter and then track the goals thought to the end of each
quarter. We hope that this will help us understand and respect your time
and commitment availability.
Please either respond to this thread or get in touch with me so we can
start 2013 off with a bang!
Thank you all for your time, effort, and dedication.
Jeff
Michael Bauer
Jan 3, 2013, 6:49:43 AM1/3/13
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org, Dwayne Bailey
Hi Jeff
02/01/2013 22:16, sgrìobh Jeff Beatty:
I think for most it was actually just that that got in the way - the
holidays. I think I only finished gd a few days back, and to be honest,
I didn't remember to check what had or hadn't been signed off. I guess
it goes back to the old debate that for some locales, what goes in your
head is something along the lines of "it's green > it's done" and that
makes (at least me) liable to forget checking the signoffs. This has
probably been debated ad nauseum before but if I could opt out (or in)
my locale into some sort of a "if it's green, Mozilla will assume it's
good to go" scheme, that would really be helpful.
Tata
Michael
02/01/2013 22:16, sgrìobh Jeff Beatty:
> If you've celebrated holidays in the last month, we sincerely hope
> that they have been filled with fun and joy!
More like desperate catchup but overall just what was needed ;)
> that they have been filled with fun and joy!
I think for most it was actually just that that got in the way - the
holidays. I think I only finished gd a few days back, and to be honest,
I didn't remember to check what had or hadn't been signed off. I guess
it goes back to the old debate that for some locales, what goes in your
head is something along the lines of "it's green > it's done" and that
makes (at least me) liable to forget checking the signoffs. This has
probably been debated ad nauseum before but if I could opt out (or in)
my locale into some sort of a "if it's green, Mozilla will assume it's
good to go" scheme, that would really be helpful.
Tata
Michael
Stefan Plewako
Jan 3, 2013, 8:23:27 AM1/3/13
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
W dniu 02-01-13 23:16, Jeff Beatty pisze:
example is waiting for review since 20 December - like two weeks now and
string freeze and beta 6 in the meantime…
> As you all know, l10n string freeze and merge day all happened within
> the last couple of weeks. Sadly, it seems that many locales were
> unable to sign off on their most recent changesets for them to release
> with Firefox 18. This link shows all the current shipping locales and
> their most up-to-date version of Firefox desktop
> (https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/app/locale-changes/fx18).
>
> This quarter we will be experimenting with a process for l10n teams to
> start setting some goals around catching up with translation work, and
> communicating those goals to l10n-drivers and people that can help out
> translation, testing, reviews and sign-offs. The idea is to do some
> planning on what's needed to catch up, set goals at the beginning of
> each quarter and then track the goals thought to the end of each
> quarter. We hope that this will help us understand and respect your
> time and commitment availability.
Maybe l10n drivers should start reviewing signoffs more often? pl for
> the last couple of weeks. Sadly, it seems that many locales were
> unable to sign off on their most recent changesets for them to release
> with Firefox 18. This link shows all the current shipping locales and
> their most up-to-date version of Firefox desktop
> (https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/app/locale-changes/fx18).
>
> This quarter we will be experimenting with a process for l10n teams to
> start setting some goals around catching up with translation work, and
> communicating those goals to l10n-drivers and people that can help out
> translation, testing, reviews and sign-offs. The idea is to do some
> planning on what's needed to catch up, set goals at the beginning of
> each quarter and then track the goals thought to the end of each
> quarter. We hope that this will help us understand and respect your
> time and commitment availability.
example is waiting for review since 20 December - like two weeks now and
string freeze and beta 6 in the meantime…
Axel Hecht
Jan 3, 2013, 9:04:30 AM1/3/13
to
Hi,
Polish is bad timing and holidays taking their toll on my side. I'll
need to a- that, the last cycle for which I was able to take updates for
18 was actually on Dec 24,
https://mail.mozilla.com/home/akeybl%40mozilla.com/Release%20Management.html?view=month&date=20121203&action=view&invId=3c92eff1-7bd4-40ab-946b-b13771bfc3bc%3a116290-116289&pstat=AC&useInstance=1&instStartTime=1356336000000&instDuration=86400000
has that.
That's what I stuck to.
Looking back, I'm not convinced that was as good as it could have been
in this longer cycle, but that's too late to change.
For Polish, we had a pretty green tree back on October 16, I'd love to
avoid such a delay.
Axel
Axel Hecht
Jan 4, 2013, 10:30:39 AM1/4/13
to
are you looking at https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/gd ? Just want to make
sure you're not stuck on
https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/dashboard?locale=gd, because that'd
mean you're opting out of all the work we're doing to improve those team
pages.
And yes, we did extensively discuss the signoffs process. Our point here
is that we want you to test your work before we ship it. Testing
requires a build, and that requires that stuff is in the repo.
So, "opting out of signoffs" to us means "opting out of testing". And
that sounds wrong. That said, I'm aware that many teams technically opt
out right now, but that's something we need to address differently. I'm
confident that making it easier to get your code landed yourself is
going to be key here.
Axel
sankarshan
Jan 4, 2013, 11:10:55 AM1/4/13
to dev-l10n
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Jeff Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com> wrote:
> This quarter we will be experimenting with a process for l10n teams to start
> setting some goals around catching up with translation work, and
> communicating those goals to l10n-drivers and people that can help out
> translation, testing, reviews and sign-offs.
Do you have this proposal documented so that one can read through ?
> This quarter we will be experimenting with a process for l10n teams to start
> setting some goals around catching up with translation work, and
> communicating those goals to l10n-drivers and people that can help out
> translation, testing, reviews and sign-offs.
--
sankarshan mukhopadhyay
<https://twitter.com/#!/sankarshan>
Michael Bauer
Jan 4, 2013, 1:03:51 PM1/4/13
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
04/01/2013 15:30, sgrìobh Axel Hecht:
Yes
>
> So, "opting out of signoffs" to us means "opting out of testing". And
> that sounds wrong. That said, I'm aware that many teams technically
> opt out right now, but that's something we need to address
> differently. I'm confident that making it easier to get your code
> landed yourself is going to be key here.
Couldn't the main reason for the failure of the xmas signoffs equally be
down to bad timing of the signoff deadline and a lack of a physical
reminder such as an email/calender-note or sms reminding me that I need
to sign off x before date z? It's not hard if you're just working
for/on/with Mozilla but I think the reality for many of us is that we
handle multiple projects and haven't always memorised the schedules for
whatever project in question.
Michael
Kim Ludvigsen
Jan 4, 2013, 2:40:44 PM1/4/13
to
Michael Bauer wrote:
> This has probably been debated ad nauseum before
> but if I could opt out (or in) my locale into some sort of a
> "if it's green, Mozilla will assume it's good to go" scheme,
> that would really be helpful.
+1. I never test before sign-off, thus some kind of
> This has probably been debated ad nauseum before
> but if I could opt out (or in) my locale into some sort of a
> "if it's green, Mozilla will assume it's good to go" scheme,
> that would really be helpful.
automatic sign off would be great. Maybe you could mark an
automatic sign-off as an untested sign-off?
--
Kim Ludvigsen
The Danish Mozilla Team
Jeff Beatty
Jan 4, 2013, 3:53:20 PM1/4/13
to
El 1/4/13 11:03 AM, Michael Bauer escribió:
Granted, I think that the most recent fallback is largely due to the
time of the year, however, fallback is becoming more and more common,
and we'd like to help everyone to keep from sliding behind.
Notifications and reminders are challenging. For instance, SMS would be
very direct and helpful, but SMS rates can vary between country and time
zone differences could disturb much needed sleep, turning them from
helpful to odious.
We've opted for posting reminders every 2 weeks to both this newsgroup
and the @mozilla_l10n twitter feed. In addition, we're working out a
better l10n calendar option for everyone so that it's easier for people
to add key milestone dates into your personal calendars. However, while
this seems to have helped in some cases, it is clearly not a catch-all
as you either need to be checking on the newsgroup periodically or
subscribed to it like a mailing list for the reminders to end up in your
inbox.
This being the case, could there be a better method beyond what we're
currently doing? I think so, but I'm unsure what it would be. Does
anyone have any suggestions?
> Michael
time of the year, however, fallback is becoming more and more common,
and we'd like to help everyone to keep from sliding behind.
Notifications and reminders are challenging. For instance, SMS would be
very direct and helpful, but SMS rates can vary between country and time
zone differences could disturb much needed sleep, turning them from
helpful to odious.
We've opted for posting reminders every 2 weeks to both this newsgroup
and the @mozilla_l10n twitter feed. In addition, we're working out a
better l10n calendar option for everyone so that it's easier for people
to add key milestone dates into your personal calendars. However, while
this seems to have helped in some cases, it is clearly not a catch-all
as you either need to be checking on the newsgroup periodically or
subscribed to it like a mailing list for the reminders to end up in your
inbox.
This being the case, could there be a better method beyond what we're
currently doing? I think so, but I'm unsure what it would be. Does
anyone have any suggestions?
> Michael
Ricardo Palomares Martínez
Jan 4, 2013, 3:54:22 PM1/4/13
to
El 04/01/13 16:30, Axel Hecht escribió:
dashboard because I find it clearer. For instance, how can our
fennec-aurora and tb-beta trees be at the same time in the "current"
and "suggested" status?
https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/es-ES
Maybe the page lacks a good legend page, something that could also
benefit the Locale changes for Firefox 18 page linked by Jeff at the
beginning of this thread. es-ES, among other locales, is at the same
time in two milestones, Fx 18 Beta Build 1 (green) and Fx 18 Beta
Build 6 (blue). Two locales (oc and wo) are in red. What's the meaning
of each color?
TIA
--
Ricardo Palomares (RickieES)
http://www.mozilla-hispano.org/
http://www.proyectonave.es/
https://diasp.eu/u/rickiees
> are you looking at https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/gd ? Just want to
> make sure you're not stuck on
> https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/dashboard?locale=gd, because that'd
> mean you're opting out of all the work we're doing to improve those
> team pages.
FWIW, I'm opting out of the team page and I'm stuck with the shipping
> make sure you're not stuck on
> https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/dashboard?locale=gd, because that'd
> mean you're opting out of all the work we're doing to improve those
> team pages.
dashboard because I find it clearer. For instance, how can our
fennec-aurora and tb-beta trees be at the same time in the "current"
and "suggested" status?
https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/es-ES
Maybe the page lacks a good legend page, something that could also
benefit the Locale changes for Firefox 18 page linked by Jeff at the
beginning of this thread. es-ES, among other locales, is at the same
time in two milestones, Fx 18 Beta Build 1 (green) and Fx 18 Beta
Build 6 (blue). Two locales (oc and wo) are in red. What's the meaning
of each color?
TIA
--
Ricardo Palomares (RickieES)
http://www.mozilla-hispano.org/
http://www.proyectonave.es/
https://diasp.eu/u/rickiees
Axel Hecht
Jan 4, 2013, 4:17:05 PM1/4/13
to
On 04.01.13 21:54, Ricardo Palomares Martínez wrote:
> El 04/01/13 16:30, Axel Hecht escribió:
>> are you looking at https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/gd ? Just want to
>> make sure you're not stuck on
>> https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/dashboard?locale=gd, because that'd
>> mean you're opting out of all the work we're doing to improve those
>> team pages.
>
>
> FWIW, I'm opting out of the team page and I'm stuck with the shipping
> dashboard because I find it clearer. For instance, how can our
> fennec-aurora and tb-beta trees be at the same time in the "current"
> and "suggested" status?
>
> https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/es-ES
"Current" means that we have a revision that landed in this cycle, and
> El 04/01/13 16:30, Axel Hecht escribió:
>> are you looking at https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/gd ? Just want to
>> make sure you're not stuck on
>> https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/dashboard?locale=gd, because that'd
>> mean you're opting out of all the work we're doing to improve those
>> team pages.
>
>
> FWIW, I'm opting out of the team page and I'm stuck with the shipping
> dashboard because I find it clearer. For instance, how can our
> fennec-aurora and tb-beta trees be at the same time in the "current"
> and "suggested" status?
>
> https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/es-ES
has an accepted sign-off. If you see a revision, we're falling back to a
revision from the previous cycle.
"Suggested" means that there's a revision that's in this cycle, and has
successful tests (compare-locales being green), so it might be good to
sign-off.
For fennec19 at this time,
https://l10n.mozilla.org/shipping/signoffs/es-ES/fennec19, you'd end up
with the diff between current and suggested being
https://l10n.mozilla.org/source/diff/?from=1c52d53fe725&to=28ab3a552619&repo=releases%2Fl10n%2Fmozilla-aurora%2Fes-ES.
It's a tad tricky to find out why that one's suggested, true.
When http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-aurora/rev/e4c679d061f7
landed, that was the tip, so it got a compare-locales run. I'm only
testing if the revision was compared against, not if it triggered the
build or a later en-US build did.
>
> Maybe the page lacks a good legend page, something that could also
> benefit the Locale changes for Firefox 18 page linked by Jeff at the
> beginning of this thread. es-ES, among other locales, is at the same
> time in two milestones, Fx 18 Beta Build 1 (green) and Fx 18 Beta
> Build 6 (blue). Two locales (oc and wo) are in red. What's the meaning
> of each color?
the aurora tree for b1. blue means that there's been an incremental
update within this release cycle. Red are rejected sign-offs, usually
stuff that tried to get into beta, but didn't, because non-fx-l10n
issues aren't up, or coverage isn't great.
Axel
Jeff Beatty
Jan 4, 2013, 5:09:30 PM1/4/13
to
El 1/4/13 9:10 AM, sankarshan escribió:
questions, feel free to ask.
https://blog.mozilla.org/l10n/2013/01/04/goal-setting-for-your-locale/
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Jeff Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com> wrote:
>> This quarter we will be experimenting with a process for l10n teams to start
>> setting some goals around catching up with translation work, and
>> communicating those goals to l10n-drivers and people that can help out
>> translation, testing, reviews and sign-offs.
>
> Do you have this proposal documented so that one can read through ?
>
>
I just blogged about it on the l10n blog. If you have any additional
>> This quarter we will be experimenting with a process for l10n teams to start
>> setting some goals around catching up with translation work, and
>> communicating those goals to l10n-drivers and people that can help out
>> translation, testing, reviews and sign-offs.
>
> Do you have this proposal documented so that one can read through ?
>
>
questions, feel free to ask.
https://blog.mozilla.org/l10n/2013/01/04/goal-setting-for-your-locale/
flod
Jan 5, 2013, 12:43:38 AM1/5/13
to dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
2013/1/4 Jeff Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com>
> we're working out a better l10n calendar option for everyone so that it's
> easier for people to add key milestone dates into your personal calendars.
I like this, considering that most people are probably already using
calendars on phones or web, just keep it simple (not too crowded) ;-)
Like Ricardo I never use the team page, I only visit the dashboard/shipping
web page. Working on central (and using nightlies every day, both for
desktop and mobile) I usually sign-off on Aurora a couple of weeks after
merge day, and then sign-off again if I need to fix some mistakes. BTW Fx18
for Italian was good at the first sign-off, the suggested sign-off is not
meaningful (contains changes only for Thunderbird or SeaMonkey).
Francesco
> we're working out a better l10n calendar option for everyone so that it's
> easier for people to add key milestone dates into your personal calendars.
calendars on phones or web, just keep it simple (not too crowded) ;-)
Like Ricardo I never use the team page, I only visit the dashboard/shipping
web page. Working on central (and using nightlies every day, both for
desktop and mobile) I usually sign-off on Aurora a couple of weeks after
merge day, and then sign-off again if I need to fix some mistakes. BTW Fx18
for Italian was good at the first sign-off, the suggested sign-off is not
meaningful (contains changes only for Thunderbird or SeaMonkey).
Francesco
Axel Hecht
Jan 8, 2013, 12:44:41 PM1/8/13
to
I'd love if you and Ricardo could detail on what makes you stay on the
exhibit table page.
It's generally not maintained anymore. Which makes it hard to improve
discoverability of information we have.
Axel
Axel Hecht
Jan 8, 2013, 12:56:30 PM1/8/13
to
On 04.01.13 19:03, Michael Bauer wrote:
>
> 04/01/2013 15:30, sgrìobh Axel Hecht:
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> are you looking at https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/gd ?
> Yes
>
>>
>> So, "opting out of signoffs" to us means "opting out of testing". And
>> that sounds wrong. That said, I'm aware that many teams technically
>> opt out right now, but that's something we need to address
>> differently. I'm confident that making it easier to get your code
>> landed yourself is going to be key here.
> I'm not so sure. An assumption based on what?
Not much of an assumption really, all teams on pootle require an export
>
> 04/01/2013 15:30, sgrìobh Axel Hecht:
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> are you looking at https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/gd ?
> Yes
>
>>
>> So, "opting out of signoffs" to us means "opting out of testing". And
>> that sounds wrong. That said, I'm aware that many teams technically
>> opt out right now, but that's something we need to address
>> differently. I'm confident that making it easier to get your code
>> landed yourself is going to be key here.
> I'm not so sure. An assumption based on what?
to hg, essentially, Dwayne doing something. And he'd kicking off
sign-offs right after, so there's a disconnect between the l10n team,
the landing, the testing, and the sign-off. The fact that it's really
mostly Dwayne that can do that is a bug that's related to the setup there.
Once getting data out of pootle is feasible for humans, we can lift the
load on Dwayne, and break up some of those barriers.
Axel
Robert Kaiser
Jan 9, 2013, 11:12:08 AM1/9/13
to
Axel Hecht schrieb:
overview than the team page that is overloaded with beautification but
taking away the actual numbers I'm interested in, which the table
displays in an easy-to-grasp view, IMHO.
Robert Kaiser
> I'd love if you and Ricardo could detail on what makes you stay on the
> exhibit table page.
I'm also still preferring that one as for me it gives an easier to grasp
> exhibit table page.
overview than the team page that is overloaded with beautification but
taking away the actual numbers I'm interested in, which the table
displays in an easy-to-grasp view, IMHO.
Robert Kaiser
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