Android single locale Aurora builds are back

[Axel Hecht]

Hi,

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/nightly/latest-mozilla-aurora-android-l10n/
has single-locale aurora builds for Android again.

I'll start going through the list of locales soon, and reach out to
either focus or blur the efforts, depending on how the chances are to
get you shipped.

If you have a locale on Android, and community members with phones,
please ask around to get your work tested.

Axel

[Julen Ruiz Aizpuru]

ar., 2013.eko marren 12a 16:50(e)an, Axel Hecht(e)k idatzi zuen:

While this has been really great for letting our users have a
mobile/tablet browser in Basque �it's the only one available for us�,
people are already asking for beta/release builds.

Is there any bug tracking the addition of new single-locale beta/release
builds? I couldn't find any. Or, alternatively, should I file a specific
bug for my locale requesting beta/release builds?

I know there's bug 792077, but that tracks multi-locale builds, which is
a different story AFAIK.

Thanks in advance,
Julen.

[Axel Hecht]

We don't intend to do single-locale beta or release builds.

If anything, you'd need to poke the android play store folks to support
multiple APKs for locales under one entry in the store.

Once that's possible, we may reconsider.

Axel

[Julen Ruiz Aizpuru]

al., 2013.eko apiren 08a 16:53(e)an, Axel Hecht(e)k idatzi zuen:

>
> We don't intend to do single-locale beta or release builds.
>

Then I wonder why there are single-locale builds for some locales that
are not supported on the Play Store (fy-NL, ga-IE, gl, nb-NO, pa-IN). Is
there any specific reason for that?

Thanks again,
Julen.

[Axel Hecht]

They are where?

Axel

[Julen Ruiz Aizpuru]

al., 2013.eko apiren 08a 17:15(e)an, Axel Hecht(e)k idatzi zuen:

On the FTP at
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest-beta/android/
and
https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest/android/

Julen.

[Axel Hecht]

Can you check for me if those apps get updates? TBH, I suspect they
don't, which makes those builds mostly non-constructive and more of a
fall-out of past utopia than a constructive asset.

Axel

[Kevin Scannell]

On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Axel Hecht <l1...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> On 08.04.13 17:33, Julen Ruiz Aizpuru wrote:
>
>> al., 2013.eko apiren 08a 17:15(e)an, Axel Hecht(e)k idatzi zuen:
>>
>>> On 08.04.13 17:10, Julen Ruiz Aizpuru wrote:
>>>
>>> al., 2013.eko apiren 08a 16:53(e)an, Axel Hecht(e)k idatzi zuen:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We don't intend to do single-locale beta or release builds.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Then I wonder why there are single-locale builds for some locales that
>>>> are not supported on the Play Store (fy-NL, ga-IE, gl, nb-NO, pa-IN). Is
>>>> there any specific reason for that?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again,
>>>> Julen.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They are where?
>>>
>>
>> On the FTP at

>> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/**mozilla.org/mobile/releases/**
>> latest-beta/android/<https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest-beta/android/>
>>
>> and
>> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/**mozilla.org/mobile/releases/**
>> latest/android/<https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest/android/>

>>
>> Julen.
>>
>
> Can you check for me if those apps get updates? TBH, I suspect they don't,
> which makes those builds mostly non-constructive and more of a fall-out of
> past utopia than a constructive asset.
>
>

For what it's worth, we've actually been pointing Irish speakers who want
Firefox on Android to these builds - I'd hate to see them go away since
they're better than having nothing. Like Basque, we have no other options
on mobile.

http://nascanna.com/NascannaCom/Feidhmchlar.aspx?id=91

Kevin

[文少华]

Hi,
How can we get one or two phones to test it?
Br.
Holy


On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:50 PM, Axel Hecht <l1...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/**mozilla.org/mobile/nightly/**
> latest-mozilla-aurora-android-**l10n/<http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/nightly/latest-mozilla-aurora-android-l10n/>has single-locale aurora builds for Android again.

> ______________________________**_________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/**listinfo/dev-l10n<https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n>
>

[Fjoerfoks]

Axel,

They are getting updated, only with the one on Playstore, so after updating
it reverts back to the default phonelanguage. In my case Dutch.
I use the Aurora-builds which get updated everyday, sometimes twice. That
isn't userfriendly, so I don't recommend.

Wim
Op 8 apr. 2013 22:55 schreef "Axel Hecht" <l1...@mozilla.com> het volgende:

> On 08.04.13 17:33, Julen Ruiz Aizpuru wrote:
>
>> al., 2013.eko apiren 08a 17:15(e)an, Axel Hecht(e)k idatzi zuen:
>>
>>> On 08.04.13 17:10, Julen Ruiz Aizpuru wrote:
>>>
>>>> al., 2013.eko apiren 08a 16:53(e)an, Axel Hecht(e)k idatzi zuen:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We don't intend to do single-locale beta or release builds.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Then I wonder why there are single-locale builds for some locales that
>>>> are not supported on the Play Store (fy-NL, ga-IE, gl, nb-NO, pa-IN). Is
>>>> there any specific reason for that?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again,
>>>> Julen.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They are where?
>>>
>>
>> On the FTP at

>> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/**mozilla.org/mobile/releases/**
>> latest-beta/android/<https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest-beta/android/>
>>
>> and
>> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/**mozilla.org/mobile/releases/**

>> latest/android/<https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/mobile/releases/latest/android/>

>>
>> Julen.
>>
>
> Can you check for me if those apps get updates? TBH, I suspect they don't,
> which makes those builds mostly non-constructive and more of a fall-out of
> past utopia than a constructive asset.
>
> Axel

[Sander Lepik]

09.04.2013 08:58, Fjoerfoks kirjutas:
> I use the Aurora-builds which get updated everyday, sometimes twice. That
> isn't userfriendly, so I don't recommend.
>
> Wim

Yeah, I kinda agree with that. We were told to suggest these builds to
local users but it's not something I would suggest to any user. Update
or two per day. That's not Aurora, thats nightly. Do we really need
updates that often, Axel?

I would suggest these builds if they update once per week. Even that
would be a bit too much but well..

--
Sander

[Axel Hecht]

Again, there's no straws to hold on here.

Android isn't a platform where we can make things happen just because we
want to.

The single-locale builds suck, in various ways, and we're not going to
fix them, and at least the beta/release ones may at any point disappear.
Those just exist by accident.

The only path forward is to fix the google play store, as I've said
previously. I wouldn't speculate on that happening myself.

Axel

[Sander Lepik]

09.04.2013 13:52, Axel Hecht kirjutas:
> Again, there's no straws to hold on here.
>
> Android isn't a platform where we can make things happen just because
> we want to.
>
> The single-locale builds suck, in various ways, and we're not going to
> fix them, and at least the beta/release ones may at any point
> disappear. Those just exist by accident.
>
> The only path forward is to fix the google play store, as I've said
> previously. I wouldn't speculate on that happening myself.
>
> Axel

I don't care about Play Store problems here. You asked us to promote
Aurora builds but those builds want to update _every day_. Can we change
that to once a week? Aurora is usable, but not when it tries to update
every day.

--
Sander

[Fjoerfoks]

Aurora builds are probably created every time there is an update in the
system, that's fully automated
for testing purposes, which I can understand.

Would Google hate us when Mozilla would host their own packages?
The buildsystem is there, the updates work, infrastructure is there, why
not host single-localebuilds outside of Playstore?
Build a nice webpage around it like
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/ and teach people how to install
packages
other than from Playstore. Just a thought.

Freedom to all, your browser, your language.

Wim


2013/4/9 Sander Lepik <sander...@eesti.ee>

> 09.04.2013 13:52, Axel Hecht kirjutas:

> > Again, there's no straws to hold on here.
> >
> > Android isn't a platform where we can make things happen just because
> > we want to.
> >
> > The single-locale builds suck, in various ways, and we're not going to
> > fix them, and at least the beta/release ones may at any point
> > disappear. Those just exist by accident.
> >
> > The only path forward is to fix the google play store, as I've said
> > previously. I wouldn't speculate on that happening myself.
> >
> > Axel

> I don't care about Play Store problems here. You asked us to promote
> Aurora builds but those builds want to update _every day_. Can we change
> that to once a week? Aurora is usable, but not when it tries to update
> every day.
>
> --
> Sander
>

> _______________________________________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n
>

[Axel Hecht]

Right, but we're talking about testers here. They should be fine with
receiving updates often.

To clarify on the aurora updates, this is what *should* happen:

If en-US or any locale changes, there's an update.

That's rather frequently early in the cycle, but it should relax during
the cycle.

If that's not true for mobile, we should investigate.

I don't think we should hold back updates. Weekly updates are the update
cadence of beta, so aurora being more often is within expectations.

Axel

[Axel Hecht]

On 09.04.13 13:42, Fjoerfoks wrote:
> Aurora builds are probably created every time there is an update in the
> system, that's fully automated
> for testing purposes, which I can understand.
>
> Would Google hate us when Mozilla would host their own packages?
> The buildsystem is there, the updates work, infrastructure is there, why
> not host single-localebuilds outside of Playstore?
> Build a nice webpage around it like
> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/ and teach people how to install
> packages
> other than from Playstore. Just a thought.
>
> Freedom to all, your browser, your language.

Updating software outside of the google play store system pretty much
sucks. You need to enable developer prefs etc.

The decision was that that's not a Firefox release build experience, and
thus we're not promoting that.

Google hating us or not isn't much of an issue here really.

Axel

[F Wolff]

On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Axel Hecht <l1...@mozilla.com> wrote:
> On 09.04.13 13:42, Fjoerfoks wrote:
>>
>> Aurora builds are probably created every time there is an update in the
>> system, that's fully automated
>> for testing purposes, which I can understand.
>>
>> Would Google hate us when Mozilla would host their own packages?
>> The buildsystem is there, the updates work, infrastructure is there, why
>> not host single-localebuilds outside of Playstore?
>> Build a nice webpage around it like
>> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/ and teach people how to install
>> packages
>> other than from Playstore. Just a thought.
>>
>> Freedom to all, your browser, your language.
>
>
> Updating software outside of the google play store system pretty much sucks.
> You need to enable developer prefs etc.
>
> The decision was that that's not a Firefox release build experience, and
> thus we're not promoting that.

I'm not sure I understand what is meant with a Firefox release build
experience. Is the alternative (not releasing anything) a Firefox
release build experience?

Friedel

[Fjoerfoks]

I guess if we want to make a change we need to bring this discussion to
governance instead of dev-l10.

This is probably a discussion for about 5-10 percent of all Firefox on
Mobile users.

Wim


2013/4/10 F Wolff <fri...@translate.org.za>

> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Axel Hecht <l1...@mozilla.com> wrote:

> > On 09.04.13 13:42, Fjoerfoks wrote:
> >>
> >> Aurora builds are probably created every time there is an update in the
> >> system, that's fully automated
> >> for testing purposes, which I can understand.
> >>
> >> Would Google hate us when Mozilla would host their own packages?
> >> The buildsystem is there, the updates work, infrastructure is there, why
> >> not host single-localebuilds outside of Playstore?
> >> Build a nice webpage around it like
> >> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/ and teach people how to
> install
> >> packages
> >> other than from Playstore. Just a thought.
> >>
> >> Freedom to all, your browser, your language.
> >
> >
> > Updating software outside of the google play store system pretty much
> sucks.
> > You need to enable developer prefs etc.
> >
> > The decision was that that's not a Firefox release build experience, and
> > thus we're not promoting that.
>

> I'm not sure I understand what is meant with a Firefox release build
> experience. Is the alternative (not releasing anything) a Firefox
> release build experience?
>
> Friedel

[Axel Hecht]

I don't think this is an issue for .governance.

This is a product decision, it has been made a while ago, and has been
communicated repeatedly.

We shouldn't redo this discussion every time we talk about Android, as
long as the underlying constraints of the Android platform and market
don't change.

Axel

On 4/10/13 3:41 PM, Fjoerfoks wrote:
> I guess if we want to make a change we need to bring this discussion to
> governance instead of dev-l10.
>
> This is probably a discussion for about 5-10 percent of all Firefox on
> Mobile users.
>
> Wim
>
>
> 2013/4/10 F Wolff <fri...@translate.org.za>
>
>> On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Axel Hecht <l1...@mozilla.com> wrote:

>>> On 09.04.13 13:42, Fjoerfoks wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Aurora builds are probably created every time there is an update in the
>>>> system, that's fully automated
>>>> for testing purposes, which I can understand.
>>>>
>>>> Would Google hate us when Mozilla would host their own packages?
>>>> The buildsystem is there, the updates work, infrastructure is there, why
>>>> not host single-localebuilds outside of Playstore?
>>>> Build a nice webpage around it like
>>>> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/all/ and teach people how to
>> install
>>>> packages
>>>> other than from Playstore. Just a thought.
>>>>
>>>> Freedom to all, your browser, your language.
>>>
>>>
>>> Updating software outside of the google play store system pretty much
>> sucks.
>>> You need to enable developer prefs etc.
>>>
>>> The decision was that that's not a Firefox release build experience, and
>>> thus we're not promoting that.
>>

>> I'm not sure I understand what is meant with a Firefox release build
>> experience. Is the alternative (not releasing anything) a Firefox
>> release build experience?
>>
>> Friedel

[Michael Bauer]

So it's not an issue for l10n, nor for governance. Slopy shoulders
anyone? Or is this Mozilla's new focus on the relationship with business
partners, so reminiscent of the ascent of Google which eventually
decided to kick small languages in their localization projects into touch?

Yes, I'm bitter, very bitter about the whole Android / OS affair.
Wouldn't you be if it was *your* language?

So I'll just have to promote Opera Mini/Mobile for my locale which
bizarrely DOES manage to include the ability to switch between languages
on Android. Since it's technically feasible, the only conclusion I can
draw is that Mozilla just doesn't care about its smaller languages anymore.

Michael

11/04/2013 11:15, sgrìobh Axel Hecht:

[Toni Hermoso Pulido]

Hello,

I must tell that all this situation made me feel sad, but I think it's
better to accept it and I'll try to expose and propose some things and not
only ranting. Let me know what you think.

>From my POV:
* As we have seen in previous threads, not necessarily related to l10n,
discussing or complaining either in governance or here is a bit pointless,
and it's unlikely to entail any result that can fully satisfy people who
care about minor/minorised/minority languages and the Web.
* In different layers of decision-making within Mozilla this topic is not
regarded as important enough to mobilise paid workforce to work on it at
the level we may desire.
* Even if there are individuals (let's say, in 10n-drivers) that really
care about what we comment, they have limited flexibility/decision
power/time to do what they/we might want.

Unless there can be a sudden change of approach about these topics in some
layers of decision-making in Mozilla, which I think it's highly unlikely
considering present contexts, I think the only way to deal with this issue
is trying to explore alternate solutions.
For this, I was wondering whether community-hosted projects such as
SeaMonkey or Thunderbird can be studied as models for extending language
coverage in a community support basis to some presently more
'corporate'-focused products such as Firefox for Android or Firefox OS. Of
course, this would need several rounds of discussion about how to handle
common infrastructure, branding and, of course, all the work which is
actually being done by l10n team and others. Moreover, we should also be
self-critical about whether we can have people with the
knowledge/resources/time to assume the responsibility even if lights turn
green to an idea like this.

Just some thoughts!



2013/4/11 Michael Bauer <fi...@akerbeltz.org>

> So it's not an issue for l10n, nor for governance. Slopy shoulders anyone?
> Or is this Mozilla's new focus on the relationship with business partners,
> so reminiscent of the ascent of Google which eventually decided to kick
> small languages in their localization projects into touch?
>
> Yes, I'm bitter, very bitter about the whole Android / OS affair. Wouldn't
> you be if it was *your* language?
>
> So I'll just have to promote Opera Mini/Mobile for my locale which
> bizarrely DOES manage to include the ability to switch between languages on
> Android. Since it's technically feasible, the only conclusion I can draw is
> that Mozilla just doesn't care about its smaller languages anymore.
>
> Michael
>
> 11/04/2013 11:15, sgrìobh Axel Hecht:
>

> I don't think this is an issue for .governance.
>>
>> This is a product decision, it has been made a while ago, and has been
>> communicated repeatedly.
>>
>> We shouldn't redo this discussion every time we talk about Android, as
>> long as the underlying constraints of the Android platform and market don't
>> change.
>>
>> Axel
>>
>

> ______________________________**_________________
> dev-l10n mailing list
> dev-...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/**listinfo/dev-l10n<https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n>
>



--
Toni Hermoso Pulido
http://www.cau.cat

[Michael Bauer]

Someone pointed me at this article about Kovacs, who is just leaving.
Somehow it doesn't surprise me...

http://www.internetnews.com/blog/skerner/mozilla-ceo-kovacs-on-the-way-out.html

Michael

11/04/2013 13:36, sgrìobh Toni Hermoso Pulido: