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Fwd: Persian l10n team: status update
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Sina Momken
Nov 3, 2012, 1:14:44 PM11/3/12
to dev-l...@lists.mozilla.org
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sina Momken <dig...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Persian l10n team: status update
To: Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ <beh...@zwnj.org>
Thank you Mr. Esfahbod for your notice
I'm member of the dev-l10n-fa mailing list. However about Hg/SVN access for
other team members, I think this process is a little confusing for them,
especially for those who're not familiar with source control management
systems. Even me as a software engineer had many problems in using hg,
because I was used to SVN before and had not any experiences regarding more
sophisticated Hg and its mq system.
Additionally the process of giving Hg level 1 access to new members is also
very time consuming and confusing, however I think it's required so that
nobody could damage the repo. I guess the best solution for the new
contributors who are not familiar with SCMs is uploading modified files
directly under the related bug-report in bugzilla. Then a repo admin who's
always available can check their file, criticize them if necessary and then
commit those files for them. I think Ehsan is very suitable for this
position. Another better solution could be a comprehensive translating
system like Narro or using glossaries which can accerelate and ease
translation speed and attract more translators. But until that using a repo
manager is a good temporary solution.
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 6:15 AM, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ <beh...@zwnj.org>wrote:
> Sina,
>
> Thanks for your help on Fennec l10n. Please feel free to add your name and
> your project to the team wiki page at
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Teams:fa .
>
> I'm forwarding this email to you, in case you are not on the dev-l10n-fa
> mailing list. Anyway, you can join it at
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n-fa .
>
> -Behnam
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ <beh...@zwnj.org>
> Date: Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:38 PM
> Subject: Persian l10n team: status update
> To: Mozilla Persian L10n <dev-l...@lists.mozilla.org>, Ehsan Akhgari <
> ehsan....@gmail.com>, Mohammad Reza Hajianpour <kats...@mail.com>,
> Jeff Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> We haven't had the chance to publish updates since the release of Persian
> Firefox 3.6 in Summer of 2009. Here is my side of the news, and I would
> like to ask Ehsan to update his status as well.
>
> In Summer 2009, I stepped down as the "Browser/Toolkit Owner" and left
> Ehsan alone on that. I am still trying to help the team here and there,
> whenever possible, but I'm not able to review patches regularly.
>
> Thanks Mohammad Reza for his help on the team wiki page. (
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Teams:fa) I have made some updates as well,
> and fixed some issues, as follows:
>
> * If I recall correctly, module owners need to have Hg/SVN access, so they
> can update translation for their modules directly. I search bugzilla and
> couldn't find any Hg/SVN access request bugs for Reza Hajianpour and Amir
> Hossein Hajianpour, thus I have their your name to "Localizers in training"
> for now.
>
> * Some links were out of date, and some hints (like the one on ZWNJ on
> keyboards) needed some details.
>
> Regarding new members and the module "ownership"s, my preference (based on
> my 10-year experience on this team and other l10n teams) is to have new
> contributions reviewed first, and grant direct access after a short period
> of time. This procedure makes the project more consistent and increases the
> general quality of the translations.
>
> I would be glad to help more here and have the next generation take care
> of the Persian l10n of our beloved Mozilla projects.
>
> Best,
> -Behnam
>
>
> --
> Behnam Esfahbod | بهنام اسفهبد
> http://behnam.es/
> http://zwnj.behnam.es/
> GPG Fingerprint: 3E7F B4B6 6F4C A8AB 9BB9 7520 5701 CA40 259E 0F8B
>
>
>
From: Sina Momken <dig...@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: Persian l10n team: status update
To: Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ <beh...@zwnj.org>
Thank you Mr. Esfahbod for your notice
I'm member of the dev-l10n-fa mailing list. However about Hg/SVN access for
other team members, I think this process is a little confusing for them,
especially for those who're not familiar with source control management
systems. Even me as a software engineer had many problems in using hg,
because I was used to SVN before and had not any experiences regarding more
sophisticated Hg and its mq system.
Additionally the process of giving Hg level 1 access to new members is also
very time consuming and confusing, however I think it's required so that
nobody could damage the repo. I guess the best solution for the new
contributors who are not familiar with SCMs is uploading modified files
directly under the related bug-report in bugzilla. Then a repo admin who's
always available can check their file, criticize them if necessary and then
commit those files for them. I think Ehsan is very suitable for this
position. Another better solution could be a comprehensive translating
system like Narro or using glossaries which can accerelate and ease
translation speed and attract more translators. But until that using a repo
manager is a good temporary solution.
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 6:15 AM, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ <beh...@zwnj.org>wrote:
> Sina,
>
> Thanks for your help on Fennec l10n. Please feel free to add your name and
> your project to the team wiki page at
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Teams:fa .
>
> I'm forwarding this email to you, in case you are not on the dev-l10n-fa
> mailing list. Anyway, you can join it at
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-l10n-fa .
>
> -Behnam
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ <beh...@zwnj.org>
> Date: Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:38 PM
> Subject: Persian l10n team: status update
> To: Mozilla Persian L10n <dev-l...@lists.mozilla.org>, Ehsan Akhgari <
> ehsan....@gmail.com>, Mohammad Reza Hajianpour <kats...@mail.com>,
> Jeff Beatty <jbe...@mozilla.com>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> We haven't had the chance to publish updates since the release of Persian
> Firefox 3.6 in Summer of 2009. Here is my side of the news, and I would
> like to ask Ehsan to update his status as well.
>
> In Summer 2009, I stepped down as the "Browser/Toolkit Owner" and left
> Ehsan alone on that. I am still trying to help the team here and there,
> whenever possible, but I'm not able to review patches regularly.
>
> Thanks Mohammad Reza for his help on the team wiki page. (
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Teams:fa) I have made some updates as well,
> and fixed some issues, as follows:
>
> * If I recall correctly, module owners need to have Hg/SVN access, so they
> can update translation for their modules directly. I search bugzilla and
> couldn't find any Hg/SVN access request bugs for Reza Hajianpour and Amir
> Hossein Hajianpour, thus I have their your name to "Localizers in training"
> for now.
>
> * Some links were out of date, and some hints (like the one on ZWNJ on
> keyboards) needed some details.
>
> Regarding new members and the module "ownership"s, my preference (based on
> my 10-year experience on this team and other l10n teams) is to have new
> contributions reviewed first, and grant direct access after a short period
> of time. This procedure makes the project more consistent and increases the
> general quality of the translations.
>
> I would be glad to help more here and have the next generation take care
> of the Persian l10n of our beloved Mozilla projects.
>
> Best,
> -Behnam
>
>
> --
> Behnam Esfahbod | بهنام اسفهبد
> http://behnam.es/
> http://zwnj.behnam.es/
> GPG Fingerprint: 3E7F B4B6 6F4C A8AB 9BB9 7520 5701 CA40 259E 0F8B
>
>
>
Ehsan Akhgari
Nov 5, 2012, 2:47:34 PM11/5/12
to Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ, Mozilla Persian L10n, Sina Momken, Jeff Beatty, Mohammad Reza Hajianpour
Thanks for sending this out, Behnam!
I haven't been able to invest almost any time in Persian localization
for almost 2-3 years now, and I'm really happy to see the recent
activity. I also agree that it's best to give the localizers direct
access to the repositories after a few contributions from them, and I'll
be more than happy to help people get involved. Giving people direct
access to the repository also helps with removing me from the critical
path of translations, which is nice since I'm quite busy working on
other stuff these days.
Please let me know if I can help you guys in any way.
Thanks!
Ehsan
On 2012-11-02 10:38 PM, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We haven't had the chance to publish updates since the release of
> Persian Firefox 3.6 in Summer of 2009. Here is my side of the news, and
> I would like to ask Ehsan to update his status as well.
>
> In Summer 2009, I stepped down as the "Browser/Toolkit Owner" and left
> Ehsan alone on that. I am still trying to help the team here and there,
> whenever possible, but I'm not able to review patches regularly.
>
> Thanks Mohammad Reza for his help on the team wiki page.
> (https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Teams:fa) I have made some updates as
I haven't been able to invest almost any time in Persian localization
for almost 2-3 years now, and I'm really happy to see the recent
activity. I also agree that it's best to give the localizers direct
access to the repositories after a few contributions from them, and I'll
be more than happy to help people get involved. Giving people direct
access to the repository also helps with removing me from the critical
path of translations, which is nice since I'm quite busy working on
other stuff these days.
Please let me know if I can help you guys in any way.
Thanks!
Ehsan
On 2012-11-02 10:38 PM, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We haven't had the chance to publish updates since the release of
> Persian Firefox 3.6 in Summer of 2009. Here is my side of the news, and
> I would like to ask Ehsan to update his status as well.
>
> In Summer 2009, I stepped down as the "Browser/Toolkit Owner" and left
> Ehsan alone on that. I am still trying to help the team here and there,
> whenever possible, but I'm not able to review patches regularly.
>
> Thanks Mohammad Reza for his help on the team wiki page.
Sina Momken
Nov 5, 2012, 2:57:42 PM11/5/12
to Ehsan Akhgari, Mozilla Persian L10n, Mohammad Reza Hajianpour, Jeff Beatty, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ
We are not so much yet, but I think there must always be a sentinel to
check repo after every change, so that make sure the repo doesn't corrupt.
For example make sure that each change to repo follows a bug report, so
that other people can discuss about that under the bug and permit or
rollback the change if necessary.
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 11:17 PM, Ehsan Akhgari <ehsan....@gmail.com>wrote:
> Thanks for sending this out, Behnam!
>
> I haven't been able to invest almost any time in Persian localization for
> almost 2-3 years now, and I'm really happy to see the recent activity. I
> also agree that it's best to give the localizers direct access to the
> repositories after a few contributions from them, and I'll be more than
> happy to help people get involved. Giving people direct access to the
> repository also helps with removing me from the critical path of
> translations, which is nice since I'm quite busy working on other stuff
> these days.
>
> Please let me know if I can help you guys in any way.
>
> Thanks!
> Ehsan
>
>
>
> On 2012-11-02 10:38 PM, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We haven't had the chance to publish updates since the release of
>> Persian Firefox 3.6 in Summer of 2009. Here is my side of the news, and
>> I would like to ask Ehsan to update his status as well.
>>
>> In Summer 2009, I stepped down as the "Browser/Toolkit Owner" and left
>> Ehsan alone on that. I am still trying to help the team here and there,
>> whenever possible, but I'm not able to review patches regularly.
>>
>> Thanks Mohammad Reza for his help on the team wiki page.
>> (https://wiki.mozilla.org/**L10n:Teams:fa<https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Teams:fa>)
check repo after every change, so that make sure the repo doesn't corrupt.
For example make sure that each change to repo follows a bug report, so
that other people can discuss about that under the bug and permit or
rollback the change if necessary.
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 11:17 PM, Ehsan Akhgari <ehsan....@gmail.com>wrote:
> Thanks for sending this out, Behnam!
>
> I haven't been able to invest almost any time in Persian localization for
> almost 2-3 years now, and I'm really happy to see the recent activity. I
> also agree that it's best to give the localizers direct access to the
> repositories after a few contributions from them, and I'll be more than
> happy to help people get involved. Giving people direct access to the
> repository also helps with removing me from the critical path of
> translations, which is nice since I'm quite busy working on other stuff
> these days.
>
> Please let me know if I can help you guys in any way.
>
> Thanks!
> Ehsan
>
>
>
> On 2012-11-02 10:38 PM, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We haven't had the chance to publish updates since the release of
>> Persian Firefox 3.6 in Summer of 2009. Here is my side of the news, and
>> I would like to ask Ehsan to update his status as well.
>>
>> In Summer 2009, I stepped down as the "Browser/Toolkit Owner" and left
>> Ehsan alone on that. I am still trying to help the team here and there,
>> whenever possible, but I'm not able to review patches regularly.
>>
>> Thanks Mohammad Reza for his help on the team wiki page.
Mohammad Reza Hajianpour
Nov 5, 2012, 2:57:31 PM11/5/12
to Ehsan Akhgari, Mozilla Persian L10n, Sina Momken, Jeff Beatty, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ
I don't understand what has really happened that you're all replying now. I translated important folders, just 2 folders left (huge ones though! :) ). I'm currently busy, but I'll try to start translating again. And it will be cool if I can invite more people to the project. I'm in dire need of help. ^_^ Thank you all, for giving your full attention to the project.
Regards,
..::Mohammad Reza Hajianpour::..
On Nov 5, 2012, at 11:17 PM, Ehsan Akhgari <ehsan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for sending this out, Behnam!
>
> I haven't been able to invest almost any time in Persian localization for almost 2-3 years now, and I'm really happy to see the recent activity. I also agree that it's best to give the localizers direct access to the repositories after a few contributions from them, and I'll be more than happy to help people get involved. Giving people direct access to the repository also helps with removing me from the critical path of translations, which is nice since I'm quite busy working on other stuff these days.
>
> Please let me know if I can help you guys in any way.
>
> Thanks!
> Ehsan
>
>
> On 2012-11-02 10:38 PM, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We haven't had the chance to publish updates since the release of
>> Persian Firefox 3.6 in Summer of 2009. Here is my side of the news, and
>> I would like to ask Ehsan to update his status as well.
>>
>> In Summer 2009, I stepped down as the "Browser/Toolkit Owner" and left
>> Ehsan alone on that. I am still trying to help the team here and there,
>> whenever possible, but I'm not able to review patches regularly.
>>
>> Thanks Mohammad Reza for his help on the team wiki page.
>> (https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Teams:fa) I have made some updates as
Regards,
..::Mohammad Reza Hajianpour::..
On Nov 5, 2012, at 11:17 PM, Ehsan Akhgari <ehsan....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for sending this out, Behnam!
>
> I haven't been able to invest almost any time in Persian localization for almost 2-3 years now, and I'm really happy to see the recent activity. I also agree that it's best to give the localizers direct access to the repositories after a few contributions from them, and I'll be more than happy to help people get involved. Giving people direct access to the repository also helps with removing me from the critical path of translations, which is nice since I'm quite busy working on other stuff these days.
>
> Please let me know if I can help you guys in any way.
>
> Thanks!
> Ehsan
>
>
> On 2012-11-02 10:38 PM, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We haven't had the chance to publish updates since the release of
>> Persian Firefox 3.6 in Summer of 2009. Here is my side of the news, and
>> I would like to ask Ehsan to update his status as well.
>>
>> In Summer 2009, I stepped down as the "Browser/Toolkit Owner" and left
>> Ehsan alone on that. I am still trying to help the team here and there,
>> whenever possible, but I'm not able to review patches regularly.
>>
>> Thanks Mohammad Reza for his help on the team wiki page.
Mohammad Reza Hajianpour
Nov 5, 2012, 3:02:45 PM11/5/12
to Sina Momken, Mozilla Persian L10n, Ehsan Akhgari, Jeff Beatty, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ
I don't understand what you're all talking about. I know nothing of bug reporting or that "repository" thing. Could you please tell me more about them? What are they? How do they work?
Regards,
..::Mohammad Reza Hajianpour::..
Regards,
..::Mohammad Reza Hajianpour::..
On Nov 5, 2012, at 11:27 PM, Sina Momken <dig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We are not so much yet, but I think there must always be a sentinel to check repo after every change, so that make sure the repo doesn't corrupt. For example make sure that each change to repo follows a bug report, so that other people can discuss about that under the bug and permit or rollback the change if necessary.
>
>
> We are not so much yet, but I think there must always be a sentinel to check repo after every change, so that make sure the repo doesn't corrupt. For example make sure that each change to repo follows a bug report, so that other people can discuss about that under the bug and permit or rollback the change if necessary.
>
>
Ehsan Akhgari
Nov 5, 2012, 3:27:59 PM11/5/12
to Mohammad Reza Hajianpour, Jeff Beatty, Sina Momken, Mozilla Persian L10n, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ
I think that we should try to keep the barrier to entry very low. We
can use this mailing list for discussions about problems in the
translation, and if someone makes a change by mistake, it's pretty easy
to fix afterwards, so I don't think that will be a problem that we need
to worry about now.
Cheers,
Ehsan
On 2012-11-05 3:02 PM, Mohammad Reza Hajianpour wrote:
> I don't understand what you're all talking about. I know nothing of bug
> reporting or that "repository" thing. Could you please tell me more
> about them? What are they? How do they work?
>
> Regards,
>
> ..::Mohammad Reza Hajianpour::..
>
> On Nov 5, 2012, at 11:27 PM, Sina Momken <dig...@gmail.com
>> (https://wiki.mozilla.org/__L10n:Teams:fa
>> <https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Teams:fa>) I have made some
can use this mailing list for discussions about problems in the
translation, and if someone makes a change by mistake, it's pretty easy
to fix afterwards, so I don't think that will be a problem that we need
to worry about now.
Cheers,
Ehsan
On 2012-11-05 3:02 PM, Mohammad Reza Hajianpour wrote:
> I don't understand what you're all talking about. I know nothing of bug
> reporting or that "repository" thing. Could you please tell me more
> about them? What are they? How do they work?
>
> Regards,
>
> ..::Mohammad Reza Hajianpour::..
>
> On Nov 5, 2012, at 11:27 PM, Sina Momken <dig...@gmail.com
>> <https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Teams:fa>) I have made some
Jeff Beatty
Nov 5, 2012, 3:37:36 PM11/5/12
to Mohammad Reza Hajianpour, Sina Momken, Ehsan Akhgari, Mozilla Persian L10n, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ
El 11/5/12 1:02 PM, Mohammad Reza Hajianpour escribió:
>> (https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Teams:fa) I have made some
All,
I am so excited to see the recent enthusiasm here! It's true that
recently we've received many requests to help localize Firefox and other
Mozilla products into Persian. I'm thrilled to see that you all are
interested in helping these new contributors get up-to-speed.
As Reza has pointed out, new comers have difficulty understanding the
complexities involved in the Mozilla l10n process. I recommend that
everyone here read both the Localization Process doc
(https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Localization_Process) and the
Localization Quick Start Guide
(https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Localization_Quick_Start_Guide). Your
familiarity and understanding of both of these guides will be very
important as you seek to instruct newbies on how the Persian l10n team
operates.
Reza, the two docs mentioned above will answer your questions. If after
reading them you find some areas to still be unclear, please reach out
on the Mozilla Persian L10n mailing list (dev-l...@lists.mozilla.org)
and someone can clarify.
Congratulations to you all on the renewed enthusiasm! If I can help in
any way, please let me know.
Jeff
--
*Jeff Beatty*
Mozilla l10n
jbe...@mozilla.com
801.367.3763
I am so excited to see the recent enthusiasm here! It's true that
recently we've received many requests to help localize Firefox and other
Mozilla products into Persian. I'm thrilled to see that you all are
interested in helping these new contributors get up-to-speed.
As Reza has pointed out, new comers have difficulty understanding the
complexities involved in the Mozilla l10n process. I recommend that
everyone here read both the Localization Process doc
(https://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Localization_Process) and the
Localization Quick Start Guide
(https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Localization_Quick_Start_Guide). Your
familiarity and understanding of both of these guides will be very
important as you seek to instruct newbies on how the Persian l10n team
operates.
Reza, the two docs mentioned above will answer your questions. If after
reading them you find some areas to still be unclear, please reach out
on the Mozilla Persian L10n mailing list (dev-l...@lists.mozilla.org)
and someone can clarify.
Congratulations to you all on the renewed enthusiasm! If I can help in
any way, please let me know.
Jeff
--
*Jeff Beatty*
Mozilla l10n
jbe...@mozilla.com
801.367.3763
Axel Hecht
Nov 6, 2012, 6:40:59 PM11/6/12
to Mohammad Reza Hajianpour, Sina Momken, Ehsan Akhgari, Jeff Beatty, Behnam Esfahbod ZWNJ
Hi,
great to see some public communication about the persian localization.
I'd love to get a single contributor outside of the persian localization
to a few. The best way to do that is to evaluate actual contributions,
preferably in the form of patches. We'd want to do both technical and
linguistic reviews on those.
To get an updated localization out to users, we'll need the updates to
land in the persian aurora repository,
http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/l10n/mozilla-aurora/fa/. Mozilla's l10n
infrastructure doesn't have any one good way to contribute, so it'd be
great if folks that actually started working said where they're at.
Once we know where people contribute, we can figure out how to best
discover, review, and upstream those changes to get them out to users.
Axel
great to see some public communication about the persian localization.
I'd love to get a single contributor outside of the persian localization
to a few. The best way to do that is to evaluate actual contributions,
preferably in the form of patches. We'd want to do both technical and
linguistic reviews on those.
To get an updated localization out to users, we'll need the updates to
land in the persian aurora repository,
http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/l10n/mozilla-aurora/fa/. Mozilla's l10n
infrastructure doesn't have any one good way to contribute, so it'd be
great if folks that actually started working said where they're at.
Once we know where people contribute, we can figure out how to best
discover, review, and upstream those changes to get them out to users.
Axel
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