Extensibility of non UI parts of B2G

[Mike Hommey]

Hi,

I don't seem to have seen any reference to this in all the buzz around
MWC, but please point me to anything I'd have missed.

The question boils down to this: how, in the world of B2G, can third
parties distribute software to B2G users that provide things like VPN
connectivity, RSA token support, USB tethering, and other such low level
features that wouldn't be in the standard offering but yet that users
may want to have access to?

Similarly, are we going to empower users to replace the complete UI
stack if they want to. To put it in Android terms, would a user that
bought an HTC phone with HTC Sense from a given carrier which provides
its own load of software be guaranteed to be able to replace his UX
with a vanilla Android UX?

Mike

[Chris Jones]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Hommey" <m...@glandium.org>
> To: dev...@lists.mozilla.org
> Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 7:43:21 AM
> Subject: [b2g] Extensibility of non UI parts of B2G
>
> The question boils down to this: how, in the world of B2G, can third
> parties distribute software to B2G users that provide things like VPN
> connectivity, RSA token support, USB tethering, and other such low
> level
> features that wouldn't be in the standard offering but yet that users
> may want to have access to?
>

I don't entirely follow this question ... which third parties do you have in mind? What's the distribution scenario, i.e. what are you assuming users already have and what level of ability to hack around with the ROM.

> Similarly, are we going to empower users to replace the complete UI
> stack if they want to. To put it in Android terms, would a user that
> bought an HTC phone with HTC Sense from a given carrier which
> provides
> its own load of software be guaranteed to be able to replace his UX
> with a vanilla Android UX?
>

b2g is free software; anyone could take it and distribute a build that locked users out. Of course, any distribution arrangement that Mozilla was involved in wouldn't do such a thing.

Note, this is no different than the current situation with Firefox/gecko.

Cheers,
Chris

[Mike Hommey]

On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 12:00:17PM -0800, Chris Jones wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Hommey" <m...@glandium.org> To: dev...@lists.mozilla.org
> > Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 7:43:21 AM Subject: [b2g] Extensibility
> > of non UI parts of B2G
> >
> > The question boils down to this: how, in the world of B2G, can third
> > parties distribute software to B2G users that provide things like
> > VPN connectivity, RSA token support, USB tethering, and other such
> > low level features that wouldn't be in the standard offering but yet
> > that users may want to have access to?
> >
>
> I don't entirely follow this question ... which third parties do you
> have in mind?

That would be app developers.

> What's the distribution scenario, i.e. what are you assuming users
> already have and what level of ability to hack around with the ROM.

Let's put that under the perspective of something we know: currently, if
you're lucky enough to be able to root your Android phone, you have a
class of applications you can get from the market that will enhance
low-level functionality of your phone. I'm thinking ROM manager,
tethering, local shell access, overclocking apps, backup apps that are
allowed to access all files, etc.

> > Similarly, are we going to empower users to replace the complete UI
> > stack if they want to. To put it in Android terms, would a user that
> > bought an HTC phone with HTC Sense from a given carrier which
> > provides its own load of software be guaranteed to be able to
> > replace his UX with a vanilla Android UX?
>
> b2g is free software; anyone could take it and distribute a build that
> locked users out. Of course, any distribution arrangement that
> Mozilla was involved in wouldn't do such a thing.
>
> Note, this is no different than the current situation with
> Firefox/gecko.

It is somehow different, since the vast majority of Firefox
installations come directly from mozilla.org. With B2G, we'll rely on
carriers and manufacturers. These ones are usually known for locking
bootloaders, shipping stuff that are far from being vanilla, and adding
crapware. I do hope that from this perspective, B2G will be much better
than Android. I'm afraid Mozilla doesn't have a lot of leverage to
ensure that, though.

Cheers,

Mike

[Chris Jones]

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Hommey" <m...@glandium.org>
> To: "Chris Jones" <cjo...@mozilla.com>
> Cc: dev...@lists.mozilla.org
> Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:49:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [b2g] Extensibility of non UI parts of B2G
>
> On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 12:00:17PM -0800, Chris Jones wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Mike Hommey" <m...@glandium.org> To:
> > > dev...@lists.mozilla.org
> > > Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2012 7:43:21 AM Subject: [b2g]
> > > Extensibility
> > > of non UI parts of B2G
> > >

> > What's the distribution scenario, i.e. what are you assuming users
> > already have and what level of ability to hack around with the ROM.
>
> Let's put that under the perspective of something we know: currently,
> if
> you're lucky enough to be able to root your Android phone, you have a
> class of applications you can get from the market that will enhance
> low-level functionality of your phone. I'm thinking ROM manager,
> tethering, local shell access, overclocking apps, backup apps that
> are
> allowed to access all files, etc.
>

You won't be able to install these kinds of web applications from a web app market, but of course it would be trivially easy to add this functionality with root privs.

> > > Similarly, are we going to empower users to replace the complete
> > > UI
> > > stack if they want to. To put it in Android terms, would a user
> > > that
> > > bought an HTC phone with HTC Sense from a given carrier which
> > > provides its own load of software be guaranteed to be able to
> > > replace his UX with a vanilla Android UX?
> >
> > b2g is free software; anyone could take it and distribute a build
> > that
> > locked users out. Of course, any distribution arrangement that
> > Mozilla was involved in wouldn't do such a thing.
> >
> > Note, this is no different than the current situation with
> > Firefox/gecko.
>
> It is somehow different, since the vast majority of Firefox
> installations come directly from mozilla.org.

That doesn't change anything wrt what Mozilla can do for non-Mozilla-branded Firefox. Or b2g. Which is why I said the situation is the same.

There's really no point in discussing "unbranded" versions of either.

> With B2G, we'll rely on
> carriers and manufacturers. These ones are usually known for locking
> bootloaders, shipping stuff that are far from being vanilla, and
> adding
> crapware. I do hope that from this perspective, B2G will be much
> better
> than Android. I'm afraid Mozilla doesn't have a lot of leverage to
> ensure that, though.
>

We do, actually! We have a very strong brand. More discussion of this gets into business strategy wrt partners, so unfortunately we can't carry on that discussion here.

Cheers,
Chris