On 2020-07-16 at 21:25, WaltS48 wrote:
> On 7/16/20 8:11 PM, The Wanderer wrote:
>> On 2020-07-16 at 19:49, WaltS48 wrote:
>>> It's nicer and easier to have my most used folders open in a tab
>>> when Thunderbird starts. I can scan the Folder Pane to see if
>>> there are any new messages, select the tab and read the messages
>>> in the Message pane.
>> I clearly am not understanding your workflow.
> I'm not understanding the workflow of users that want many windows.
It's not so much that I want many windows. Most of the time, I have
exactly one Thunderbird-related window open: the main one.
It's just that when I do want to open something that doesn't have a
dedicated space within that main window, I want it to live in its own
separate window, for the limited duration that it will be around. Things
like the Compose window, the options / account settings / etc. dialogs,
about:config, the advanced search functionality, or - rarest of all - a
(That next-to-last is something which I do sometimes want multiple
windows for, one window for each active search, although I think that's
happened maybe once a decade or so. I also do a separate window for each
message in the process of being composed, but it's rare for me to have
more than one going at a time without closing the others out into saved
drafts; that might happen a few times a year.)
I do miss the "quick search" functionality, because I can't get that as
a toolbar widget anymore; unless something has changed since I last
checked new versions, "quick filter" is only available as a separate bar
of its own inside the folder pane, which either takes up vertical space
all the time even when I don't need it or changes the amount of
available space in the folder pane every time it's turned on or off.
Changing the layout of the UI like that (outside of "currently actively
performing customization") is a strict no-no for me, so I haven't
actually been able to bring myself to use this otherwise very nice
functionality in years. Fixing things so that the contents of that
separate bar can live in the toolbar would be one of the necessary
projects if I ever have the resources to dedicate myself to getting
newer Thunderbird versions to work the way I want again.
That "UI elements should not move around under my feet" sensibility is
why having the tab bar appear when I open something that isn't allowed
to go into a separate window anymore is such a major negative for me.
The reason having the tab bar be around all the time, so that it doesn't
appear and disappear like that, is a negative for me is partly a matter
of principle and partly fact that it takes up vertical screen real
estate; in some contexts, such as my 1366x768 laptop, vertical space is
at a very heavy premium.
As far as my actual workflow, in regard to opening windows:
I open the Compose window, write a mail, and save it as a draft, send
it, or cancel it without saving, any of which closes the window.
I open one of the settings dialogs, dig through it, check and/or change
the settings I'm after, and close the dialog.
I open the advanced-search window, run the search (usually in a separate
desktop, so that the window doesn't get in the way of the main one while
the search processes), open a search-result message in a
new window, close that message after determining whether it's the right
one or not, go back to the main window and find the right one in its
proper folder so that I can read it in proper context, and close the
I very, very rarely have any reason to open a separate window (or,
potentially, tab) and leave it open while I go on to do something else,
much less something that has any need to open a separate window of its
own. Even the advanced-search workflow is just recursing into one
additional layer of "open window", and the recursion is quickly returned
from. I just don't leave a Thunderbird-related window open unless it's
either the primary focus of the task I'm working on, or an ancestor of
that "focus" window in the recursion tree, which is to become the focus
again as soon as its immediate descendant is closed.
> It is a nightmare to go looking for them with separate applications
> or even the same application. Like the composition window in
Maybe I'm not understanding what the Compose window being a separate tab
in the main window would be like, because at first glance that strikes
me as such a blatantly obviously horrible idea that I'm not sure where
to start describing why it's bad.
"Go looking for" doesn't arise unless you have plenty of windows open at
once, which as I said I basically never do in a Thunderbird context.
(In a Firefox context, where I do use tabs - well, I'm currently sitting
at 700-some open tabs, up from maybe as low as 400-some after having
ground it down from a peak of 5,190. Similar workflows very much do not
>> I scan the folder pane to see if there are any new messages, select
>> the folder, select the messages in the thread pane, and read them
>> in the message pane.
>> I find it hard to see what advantage selecting a tab rather than a
>> folder at step 2 could bring. In fact, it seems worse, because
>> it's limited to only the folders for which you already have open
>> tabs; if there are new messages in a different folder, you have to
>> fall back to the "select a folder" version.
> No, I see the selected folder in a tab and the Folder pane for all
> the other folders in the same tab. Unless I choose View > Layout and
> disable the Folder pane.
That's about what I'd expect, yes - and I don't see how bringing tabs
into it offers any advantage, vs. just selecting folders within the
single "tab" which is the original, main window.
>> I do see one context where tabs could be useful: multiple
>> accounts, particularly if one is mail and another is news. If I
>> could get myself to accept the loss of screen real estate involved
>> in the tab bar, I could even see myself using a separate tab per
>> account in that way, just to have more visible-at-once space in the
>> folder pane for each account's list of folders.
> A separate account in a tab only shows the account hub for that
> account and all other accounts still showing in the Folder pane. You
> have to select a folder to view an email.
...yes, of course you do.
The point of a separate tab per account would be to keep all the
accounts other than the one the tab is focused on minimized, so that
they take up as little space in the folder pane as possible. (If I were
to go that direction, I'd probably even want to have only one account's
folders visible in any given pane at all. This would almost certainly be
a new feature, not something that's already possible.)
Unless what you're saying is that each tab has the same
expanded/collapsed state for the accounts and folders as all the other
tabs do? In that case the potential advantage disappears again.