Opinion on my ff download manager mockup?

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zaqi...@gmail.com

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Sep 21, 2007, 12:50:40 PM9/21/07
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I've been playing around with some ideas of how the interface of the D/
L manager can be improved, any thoughts/critiques would be
appreciated.

This is really a personal project, but if it somehow contributes to
Firefox, all the better :)

Please excuse the one or two typos, I'll have to nab them on my next
edit.

Mockups:

http://www.burnimage.com/dlman_mockup.jpg
http://www.burnimage.com/dl_man_tview_mock.jpg

--Zaqintosh

Fergy

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Sep 22, 2007, 5:16:37 PM9/22/07
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It looks very complicated and busy

zaqi...@gmail.com

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Sep 27, 2007, 12:46:38 AM9/27/07
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Here is my next iteration (although I forgot to change the title).

Instead of using full sized buttons, I used small ones on a toolbar
for each downloading item. To avoid clutter they are all grouped
together instead of spread about.

Thoughts? Better than the first one?

zaqi...@gmail.com

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Sep 27, 2007, 12:47:11 AM9/27/07
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Alex Faaborg

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Sep 27, 2007, 1:15:12 AM9/27/07
to zaqi...@gmail.com, dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
Overall I think this is really well done, a visually simplistic
interface and a good match to various actions the user may want to take.

I like the total progress bar, but I would only display it if there
were multiple files being downloaded. The two items under it
(Downloading 1 file, total size: 47 MB) could probably be moved into
the same line under the total progress bar to simply the lower part
of the UI.

Showing "deflate" instead of open on zip archives is a great idea.
Two nitpicks: there doesn't need to be a "open" command as well, and
"extract" might mesh better with windows terminology.

I also like the idea of a move command.

The toolbars don't seem to look right on the white background. I
guess options include making the entire background grey, or drawing
some type of border around the toolbar. Perhaps a everything is
white and the controls are grouped with just a border? Also, I
wouldn't mix words with icons. Giving every command an icon may make
the interface too complex, but might be worth trying. Also maybe
consider lining the commands up vertically instead of horizontally?

For the active downloads I think icons for pause and cancel might
work better than words, and lining them up with the progress bar
gives them a nice natural mapping to what they will effect.

I'll link to this thread from the tracking bug for download manager
design work.

Cheers,
-Alex

On Sep 26, 2007, at 9:47 PM, zaqi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Oops...
>
> Here is the link: http://burnimage.com/dlman_mockupv2.jpg
>
>

> _______________________________________________
> dev-apps-firefox mailing list
> dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-apps-firefox

Ria Klaassen

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Sep 27, 2007, 3:30:28 AM9/27/07
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A feature that I have always missed in the download manager is the
ability to change location of the download during downloading or after
the download in an easy way.

At the moment there is one default location. When you start
downloading it downloads the file automatically to this location and
you can't do anything more about it after clicking on the link. So it
could be easy if there is an option on the dialog "Download to..."
with two other default locations specified by the user and a
"Browse..." button and a similar "Move to..." on the Download manager.

Of course you can stop the download and then right click -> Save as...
which calls the file picker but that is time consuming and it alters
the default location of the file picker which is also time consuming
for the next download.

I haven't yet seen this feature in the new download manager.


Dão

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Sep 27, 2007, 4:14:27 AM9/27/07
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Alex Faaborg wrote:
> Showing "deflate" instead of open on zip archives is a great idea. Two
> nitpicks: there doesn't need to be a "open" command as well, and
> "extract" might mesh better with windows terminology.
>
> I also like the idea of a move command.

I have to disagree. Firefox is not a file manager and it shouldn't try
to become one. Instead, focus should be on "open" and "open containing
folder", so that you can use all your file manager's features.

There's "save link as" and "always ask me where to save files", so
"move" isn't really needed anyway.

What I would find useful for ZIP files is a "browse" / "view contents"
link, since Firefox supports the JAR scheme and has a nice dir listing now.

Dao

Dão

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Sep 27, 2007, 4:31:49 AM9/27/07
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Dão wrote:
> Alex Faaborg wrote:
>> Showing "deflate" instead of open on zip archives is a great idea.
>> Two nitpicks: there doesn't need to be a "open" command as well, and
>> "extract" might mesh better with windows terminology.
>>
>> I also like the idea of a move command.
>
> I have to disagree. Firefox is not a file manager and it shouldn't try
> to become one. Instead, focus should be on "open" and "open containing
> folder", so that you can use all your file manager's features.
>
> There's "save link as" and "always ask me where to save files", so
> "move" isn't really needed anyway.

Btw, what Opera does is to show the system's context menu as you right
click on a downloaded file, on Windows at least. I think that's a great
example for OS integration.

Dao

steve....@gmail.com

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Sep 27, 2007, 7:07:18 AM9/27/07
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I think the mockup at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=282413
is great, except for two minor things.

One, the title says "2 active, less than a minute re[maining]" yet one
of the downloads is paused, so in my book, not active. Also, the title
implies than in less than a minute both downloads will be complete,
which won't of course happen, since one is paused.

And two, I'm not sure about the greying out of downloads that have
been cancelled... looks a little hard to read maybe.

But the right-click context menu looks much better, and the default
double-click of each kind of download (active, paused, completed,
cancelled) is good too.

>From http://burnimage.com/dlman_mockupv2.jpg I dislike deflate and
move, because as dao said, firefox isn't a file manager. Also, my mum
wouldn't know what deflate meant, and would be confused about 'move'.
As long as the file's on her HD and she can access it (default
download directory), then that's fine by her. and by me.

The Total Progress bar is certainly nice, but I question its
importance for normal users. They've already got UI showing them their
downloads' progress, why do we need another UI element showing the
progress of the progress bars?

Having an explicit button on each download to open the file is a good
idea. I'm not sure how many people would automatically double-click a
finished download to open/run it.

But to conclude, I mostly prefer the original mockup myself.

Dão

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Sep 27, 2007, 8:17:52 AM9/27/07
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steve....@gmail.com wrote:
> I think the mockup at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=282413
> is great, except for two minor things.
> [...]

> And two, I'm not sure about the greying out of downloads that have
> been cancelled... looks a little hard to read maybe.

Some people always complain about this, but IMHO we shouldn't be afraid
to use 'graytext', as it's a system color (that is, the OS theme is
responsible for the readability) and meant to be used for inactive /
deactivated things.

dao

Jesper Kristensen

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Sep 27, 2007, 11:45:32 AM9/27/07
to
steve....@gmail.com skrev:

> I think the mockup at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=282413
> is great, except for two minor things.

What is the bug for that attachment?

If a download is "opened directly" (that is, it its downloaded to the
temporary folder), there should be a "Save As..." option instead of an
"Open Containing Folder" option.

While this may look great on Windows Vista, it looks horrible on Windows
XP because the list does not have a border and a margin. It looks like
some prototype application.

Dão

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Sep 27, 2007, 12:13:56 PM9/27/07
to Jesper Kristensen
Jesper Kristensen wrote:
> steve....@gmail.com skrev:
>> I think the mockup at
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=282413
>> is great, except for two minor things.
>
> What is the bug for that attachment?

Just add &action=edit ...
It's <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=397655>.

madhav...@gmail.com

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Sep 27, 2007, 1:33:39 PM9/27/07
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On Sep 27, 7:07 am, "steve.engl...@gmail.com"
<steve.engl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the mockup athttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=282413

> is great, except for two minor things.
>
> One, the title says "2 active, less than a minute re[maining]" yet one
> of the downloads is paused, so in my book, not active. Also, the title
> implies than in less than a minute both downloads will be complete,
> which won't of course happen, since one is paused.

re: "2 active" -- you're right -- the summary/title is misleading. A
paused download isn't really active in the sense that will make more
sense to users. I'll adjust the mockup accordingly. Thanks for
noticing that!

> And two, I'm not sure about the greying out of downloads that have
> been cancelled... looks a little hard to read maybe.

Some visual indication of the download being unavailable is needed,
and I think the grey will work -- we can be careful to make sure that
it's readable. I may have gone a touch overboard in the mockup.

> But the right-click context menu looks much better, and the default
> double-click of each kind of download (active, paused, completed,
> cancelled) is good too.
>

> >Fromhttp://burnimage.com/dlman_mockupv2.jpgI dislike deflate and

madhav...@gmail.com

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Sep 27, 2007, 1:38:38 PM9/27/07
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On Sep 27, 11:45 am, Jesper Kristensen
<moznewsgro...@something.to.remove.jesperkristensen.dk> wrote:
> steve.engl...@gmail.com skrev:
>
> > I think the mockup athttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=282413

> > is great, except for two minor things.
>
> What is the bug for that attachment?
>
> If a download is "opened directly" (that is, it its downloaded to the
> temporary folder), there should be a "Save As..." option instead of an
> "Open Containing Folder" option.

Hm. That's an interesting idea -- I'll think some more about that.

> While this may look great on Windows Vista, it looks horrible on Windows
> XP because the list does not have a border and a margin. It looks like
> some prototype application.

In fact, it's even less than a prototype application -- it's just an
omnigraffle mockup at the moment :) The intent is certainly to match
platform style.

Jesper Kristensen

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Sep 27, 2007, 1:47:56 PM9/27/07
to
en...@madhava.com skrev:

>> While this may look great on Windows Vista, it looks horrible on Windows
>> XP because the list does not have a border and a margin. It looks like
>> some prototype application.
>
> In fact, it's even less than a prototype application -- it's just an
> omnigraffle mockup at the moment :) The intent is certainly to match
> platform style.
>

I was mostly talking about the current implementation in Minefield here,
and your mockup looks quite similar.

Alex Faaborg

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Sep 27, 2007, 5:18:55 PM9/27/07
to Dão, dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
>> I also like the idea of a move command.
>
> I have to disagree. Firefox is not a file manager and it shouldn't try
> to become one.

Actually now that you raise that point I wonder if there isn't a
useful middle ground. Listing all of these commands off to the side
makes them more discoverable, but it adds a lot of complexity, and it
isn't even the way we normally interact with files. What if we
allowed drag and drop operations out of the downloads manager for
moving files? This would enable the use case of organizing your
files after they download (instead of going to the downloads folder),
and it would keep the interface clean.

-Alex

Dão

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Sep 27, 2007, 5:31:43 PM9/27/07
to
That sounds quite neat!

Gijs Kruitbosch

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Sep 27, 2007, 6:31:10 PM9/27/07
to Alex Faaborg, Dão, dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
Alex Faaborg wrote:
>>> I also like the idea of a move command.
>>
>> I have to disagree. Firefox is not a file manager and it shouldn't try
>> to become one.
>
> Actually now that you raise that point I wonder if there isn't a useful
> middle ground. Listing all of these commands off to the side makes them
> more discoverable, but it adds a lot of complexity, and it isn't even
> the way we normally interact with files. What if we allowed drag and
> drop operations out of the downloads manager for moving files? This
> would enable the use case of organizing your files after they download
> (instead of going to the downloads folder), and it would keep the
> interface clean.
>
> -Alex
<snip>

That's not discoverable at all, though, especially given the download
manager looks so different from one's normal file manager. Additionally,
one might wonder whether such a drag action should copy or move.

~ Gijs

Alex Faaborg

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Sep 27, 2007, 7:09:03 PM9/27/07
to Gijs Kruitbosch, Dão, dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
> That's not discoverable at all, though, especially given the
> download manager looks so different from one's normal file manager.

In it's current form it is getting close to the tiles view in Vista.
By removing most of the inline contextual commands Madhava was making
these look more like files that can be directly acted on (double
click anywhere, instead of on a tiny open button). I think the main
thing that would increase discoverability is adding the exact same
hover effect on the items that files in the Vista file system have, a
light blue gradient effect. As for XP and OS X, I'm not really sure
if there is anything we can do other than closely matching a file
system layout.

-Alex

zaqi...@gmail.com

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Sep 28, 2007, 1:22:13 AM9/28/07
to
I've made another version with the changes you've suggested.

http://burnimage.com/dlman_mockupv3.jpg

The subtle spacing in the tool bar buttons (open, move, delete) could
be better, and I need to fix the pause button (the white bars are too
big).

But, I like how balanced this is, including the text at the bottom
status panel that shows total files and total downloaded. I left the
progress bar for one file downloading in this screen, but added to the
text that it might be shown if only more than one file is
transferring.

Let me know what your thoughts are.


Haralequin

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Sep 28, 2007, 5:43:00 AM9/28/07
to
It is not clear to me if the 'delete' button just deletes the file from the
DM or deletes the entire file from disk. The old 'clear' option at least
indicated the file was just being cleared from the DM. It would be nice if
there was a 'delete from computer option' somwhere but this is verging on
the territory of the file manager again.


<zaqi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190956933.4...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...

zaqi...@gmail.com

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Sep 28, 2007, 10:29:39 AM9/28/07
to
It's intending to delete the file... there should probably be an "are
you sure" after.

The idea here is that people tend to "clear all".. or want to delete
installer files they download from disk.

On Sep 28, 5:43 am, "Haralequin" <luke.iliffe+mozi...@gmail.com>
wrote:


> It is not clear to me if the 'delete' button just deletes the file from the
> DM or deletes the entire file from disk. The old 'clear' option at least
> indicated the file was just being cleared from the DM. It would be nice if
> there was a 'delete from computer option' somwhere but this is verging on
> the territory of the file manager again.
>

> <zaqint...@gmail.com> wrote in message

Myk Melez

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Sep 28, 2007, 4:10:00 PM9/28/07
to
Dão wrote:
> Alex Faaborg wrote:
>> Showing "deflate" instead of open on zip archives is a great idea.
>> Two nitpicks: there doesn't need to be a "open" command as well, and
>> "extract" might mesh better with windows terminology.
>>
>> I also like the idea of a move command.
>
> I have to disagree. Firefox is not a file manager and it shouldn't try
> to become one.

I think the relevant question is what users want to do with entries in
the download manager. If they want to move them, then providing a way
to do so is more important than respecting an existing boundary between
the features of download managers and those of file managers.

-myk

Dão

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Sep 28, 2007, 4:54:30 PM9/28/07
to

Actually, I would like to see the boundaries being crossed by smart OS
integration like a distinctive link to the containing folder,
drag-and-drop support or native context menus. My point is that if you
add your own toolbars and buttons for file-system-level tasks, you start
to design your own file manager -- and its usefulness and usability will
most likely be worse than with the apps that have been designed for
those tasks in the first place.

dao

Mike Beltzner

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Sep 28, 2007, 5:55:39 PM9/28/07
to dev-apps...@lists.mozilla.org
>> I think the relevant question is what users want to do with
>> entries in
>> the download manager. If they want to move them, then providing a
>> way
>> to do so is more important than respecting an existing boundary
>> between
>> the features of download managers and those of file managers.

Agreed; the Download Manager is often used as a transaction broker
(especially on OSX), retrieving a file simply for use in another
application. Once that's done, the user might want to permanently
save that file, or even remove it. Those feel like good things to
offer after a user has opened a file they've downloaded, as long as
we can do it in ways that don't clutter the UI.

> Actually, I would like to see the boundaries being crossed by smart OS
> integration like a distinctive link to the containing folder,

Linking to the containing folder is secondary UI, IMO, handing off to
the File Manager for richer access.

> drag-and-drop support or native context menus. My point is that if you

Yeah, those would indeed be hot. Dragging it from the download
manager to a location, context menu, and perhaps offering to remove
the file if the user hits the "delete" key on the entry.

> add your own toolbars and buttons for file-system-level tasks, you
> start
> to design your own file manager -- and its usefulness and usability
> will
> most likely be worse than with the apps that have been designed for
> those tasks in the first place.

Well said.

cheers,
mike

Folletto Malefico @

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Sep 28, 2007, 6:39:04 PM9/28/07
to
On Sep 28, 11:55 pm, Mike Beltzner <beltz...@mozilla.com> wrote:
> Agreed; the Download Manager is often used as a transaction broker
> (especially on OSX), retrieving a file simply for use in another
> application.

About this topic, I was thinking about the complete path to perform a
download since some time.
Why I should have TWO windows? I mean:
1. Window to confirm the download, where you choose if to download or
open the file.
2. Window to download it.

It wouldn't be easier to have a SINGLE window that opens when I click
a file, with the entry ready and right there the choice "download" and
a check "open it when downloaded" (defaultable with a pref)? (or any
other variation)

One less window to handle, and a more consistent experience ("Download
means that window"). Also, the 'starting' downloads will be stacked
one over another, so there isn't cluttering of windows when one will
open multiple links at once. ;)

That said, I think that the actual download window on Minefield trunk
is quite good for me. :)

> Yeah, those would indeed be hot. Dragging it from the download
> manager to a location, context menu, and perhaps offering to remove
> the file if the user hits the "delete" key on the entry.

I agree that dragging will be HOT.
As for the issue "move or copy", the system already is able to tell
it: the mouse cursor.
If the drag'n'drop will default to copy, anyone will see the "+" icon
near it and if one wants to move just one key should be pressed.

It's for sure an advanced function, so even if it isn't much
discoverable anyone else will just use the 'old' style download
manager. ;)

~

Another point: why isn't there any function to display the download
status on the main Firefox UI? It will be very useful, instead of
having a big window popping up, or disappearing without notice. An
icon in the status bar will be enough: when it's present, it's
downloading. When it's absent, it's not. Of course, may more details
could be added, but this is a very compact solution. It's also better
than a temporary popup, since if I got distracted when the popup
appears, I could get that the download is finished just looking at the
indicator.
But here I might be speaking mainly for mac users, since if I remember
correctly, Windows does have a temp popup, or am I wrong? :)

So, drag'n'drop plus an indicator in the main window, will make the
download experience very good for me.
Embedding the first window in the download window, could be even
better. ;)

I could provide some mockups, but I don't know if there are
programmers free to follow those ideas... ^^

zaqi...@gmail.com

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Sep 29, 2007, 2:14:58 AM9/29/07
to
I completely agree that its pointless to worry about what
functionality "belongs" in the d/l manager, and what outside.
If a user is expecting to complete a task with ease (and repeatedly),
and if firefox can accommodate / save time in that task, then it
should be explored. In my opinion.


Pas

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Sep 30, 2007, 5:07:53 AM9/30/07
to
steve....@gmail.com wrote:
> ...

> And two, I'm not sure about the greying out of downloads that have
> been cancelled... looks a little hard to read maybe.

Greying is a good visual aid IMHO.

> But the right-click context menu looks much better, and the default
> double-click of each kind of download (active, paused, completed,
> cancelled) is good too.
>
>>From http://burnimage.com/dlman_mockupv2.jpg I dislike deflate and
> move, because as dao said, firefox isn't a file manager. Also, my mum
> wouldn't know what deflate meant, and would be confused about 'move'.
> As long as the file's on her HD and she can access it (default
> download directory), then that's fine by her. and by me.

Maybe a few more people would use Firefox 3 besides you two. So for
example I'd be very happy to use the move command. Now I've to select
the destination directory every time I'd like to save something, because
using just one directory for all of my downloads is like a dll hell,
but worse, at least for me.

> The Total Progress bar is certainly nice, but I question its
> importance for normal users. They've already got UI showing them their
> downloads' progress, why do we need another UI element showing the
> progress of the progress bars?

I like the total progress bar, but honestly I don't need it, and if I
think about it I don't see any use for it, maybe total speed would be
more useful/informative.

Fergy

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Sep 30, 2007, 12:42:33 PM9/30/07
to
How about providing multiple destination directory's via tags/labels
or buttons? You could begin downloading something, select it, then
press the tag or the button to change the destination directory to
that one.

I think that the right click menu should stay clean from OS cruft.
Minefield at the moment gives you a nice clean menu with 4 options.
That could maybe change to 5 if you provide an option for changing the
destination directory. If I look at my current OS right click menu I
have 14 options and that is a pretty clean menu without third party
entrys like winzip, nero, magiciso, registry cleaners etc. The right
click menu on winxp is a disaster with most people.

I like the drag and drop idea though

Pas

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Sep 30, 2007, 4:42:40 PM9/30/07
to
Fergy wrote:
> How about providing multiple destination directory's via tags/labels
> or buttons? You could begin downloading something, select it, then
> press the tag or the button to change the destination directory to
> that one.

Great idea, I've thought about this as "labels", but "tags" maybe more
appropriate.

Adding a drop-down list to the (hypothetical) move button (much like the
search engine selector at the search bar) is a non-obtrusive way to do this.

>
> I think that the right click menu should stay clean from OS cruft.
> Minefield at the moment gives you a nice clean menu with 4 options.
> That could maybe change to 5 if you provide an option for changing the
> destination directory. If I look at my current OS right click menu I
> have 14 options and that is a pretty clean menu without third party
> entrys like winzip, nero, magiciso, registry cleaners etc. The right
> click menu on winxp is a disaster with most people.

Another issue is the time which it takes the context menu to appear.
Every shell addition to XP adds some time.. and the default XP context
menu is slow enough in itself.

steve....@gmail.com

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Oct 1, 2007, 6:52:45 AM10/1/07
to
> >>Fromhttp://burnimage.com/dlman_mockupv2.jpgI dislike deflate and

> > move, because as dao said, firefox isn't a file manager. Also, my mum
> > wouldn't know what deflate meant, and would be confused about 'move'.
> > As long as the file's on her HD and she can access it (default
> > download directory), then that's fine by her. and by me.
>
> Maybe a few more people would use Firefox 3 besides you two. So for
> example I'd be very happy to use the move command. Now I've to select
> the destination directory every time I'd like to save something, because
> using just one directory for all of my downloads is like a dll hell,
> but worse, at least for me.

Sure, but firefox is targeted at newfish, not computer experts like
yourself. I don't believe we're in the game of making the UI as
complicated and powerful as possible, we're in the game of delivering
"the best possible browsing experience to the widest possible set of
people". All this tagging and moving stuff is UI that will make things
more complicated and I believe 95% of our users wouldn't use anyway;
which makes it something best left to extension developers IMO.

zaqi...@gmail.com

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Oct 1, 2007, 11:33:04 PM10/1/07
to
Ok here is the latest version of the mock-up.

Same concept as before, but I cleaned up the buttons on the right.
Removed them from a panel, made them simple looking instead of
standard colored buttons.

http://burnimage.com/dlman_mockupv4.jpg

Pas

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Oct 3, 2007, 1:21:43 AM10/3/07
to

The buttons look good to me, the best so far.

What about the total progress bar only showing, when there are multiple
downloads? And what about showing the total speed then as well?

zaqi...@gmail.com

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Oct 3, 2007, 5:33:06 PM10/3/07
to
On Oct 3, 1:21 am, Pas <pasthe...@gmail.com> wrote:

In the text I explain that the total progress bar should only be
visible during multiple simultaneous file downloads.

Total speed might be a neat idea also.


Myk Melez

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Oct 3, 2007, 7:11:35 PM10/3/07
to
zaqi...@gmail.com wrote:
> Ok here is the latest version of the mock-up.
>
> Same concept as before, but I cleaned up the buttons on the right.
> Removed them from a panel, made them simple looking instead of
> standard colored buttons.

I like this change. But I would suggest, as did Alex Faaborg earlier in
the discussion, that you try using icons instead of text to label the
buttons, since it would make them more immediately distinguishable from
each other.

-myk

Pas

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Oct 4, 2007, 1:09:49 AM10/4/07
to

Firefox uses icons, whose meaning was long ago defined in the netscape
era, following that way would be desirable, IMHO. But the global option
for using text and icons, just text, small or big icons, etc.. should
have effect on this too. So, if the user wants only icons or text, just
a click.

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