proposed IRC planning meeting
Dan Mosedale
working on Mozilla calendar-related stuff. The consensus then was that
some regular, open communication meetings to help keep folks coordinated
would be a good thing. Now that Lightning 0.1 has shipped, I'd like to
propose that we have the first of those meetings on IRC on Thursday,
March 30th, at 9:00 AM PDT (16:00 UTC).
If folks could followup to this post to try and reach some consensus
about whether that's a workable time for most people, or, if not, what a
better time and date would be. I'm just about to head out for a week's
vacation, so I won't be around to participate in that discussion, but my
schedule is pretty flexible, so I should be able to arrange to
participate at whatever time is chosen.
When I return from vacation (the week of March 27th), I'll post a
summary of the stuff discussed at the last meeting as well as a proposed
agenda for the upcoming one.
Dan
Michiel van Leeuwen
> A little while ago, there was an IRC meeting between a bunch of folks
> working on Mozilla calendar-related stuff. The consensus then was that
> some regular, open communication meetings to help keep folks coordinated
> would be a good thing. Now that Lightning 0.1 has shipped, I'd like to
> propose that we have the first of those meetings on IRC on Thursday,
> March 30th, at 9:00 AM PDT (16:00 UTC).
If my timezone math is correct, that's 18:00 where I am. That's a bit
problematic time for me, since I'm travelling home/having diner. Can me
make it one hour later?
Michiel
Joey Minta
> If my timezone math is correct, that's 18:00 where I am. That's a bit
> problematic time for me, since I'm travelling home/having diner. Can me
> make it one hour later?
hour, I'm afraid I'll either need to duck out early or we'll need to
keep it shorter than the last meeting.
-Joey
Stephan Schaefer
I'm fine with both times. But if we could limit the meeting to may be a
single hour, all the better. As our last meeting stopped exactly at the
roadmap topic, it might be a good idea to continue exactly there.
Nevertheless, a follow-up meeting should be considered useful/required
anyway.
Stephan
Joey Minta
> As our last meeting stopped exactly at the
> roadmap topic, it might be a good idea to continue exactly there.
meeting agenda? We should try to get the agenda laid out sooner than we
did in the previous meeting.
I agree that the meeting should focus on the roadmap issues,
specifically on (1) Clear, attainable goals for Sunbird 0.3beta and
Lightning 0.2 (2) The future of the Calendar extension. (3?) Browser
calendaring (I don't know where dmose stands on this, I know he was
trying to find time to devote some brainpower to it.)
I also think it might be useful to spend a bit of time at the beginning
summarizing the feedback (from everyone's point of view) from Lightning
0.1. This would probably help in setting the roadmap goals for 0.2.
> Nevertheless, a follow-up meeting should be considered useful/required
> anyway.
I agree.
Michiel van Leeuwen
> When I return from vacation (the week of March 27th), I'll post a
> summary of the stuff discussed at the last meeting as well as a proposed
> agenda for the upcoming one.
Items I would like to propose:
- How many more sunbird alpha's/beta's do we need?
- What about the proposed new architecture:
http://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:Architecture
- (maybe more for long-term thinking) What users are we targetting?
Michiel
Joey Minta
I just got an email about the next CalConnect inter-op and roundtable
(in May). Do we need to have a discussion about whether or not we
should participate and whom we should send? Is this meeting the place
for that discussion?
-Joey
Dan Mosedale
OK, so it sounds like a meeting at 10:00 AM PDT (17:00 UTC) that only
lasts an hour will work for everyone who has spoken up so far. So let's
meet in #calendar-mtg in IRC then.
Dan
Dan Mosedale
> Stephan Schaefer wrote:
>> As our last meeting stopped exactly at the roadmap topic, it might be
>> a good idea to continue exactly there.
> Does anyone else have suggestions for a topics that need to be on the
> meeting agenda? We should try to get the agenda laid out sooner than we
> did in the previous meeting.
Heh, yeah. I'll post a straw-man agenda on the wiki tonight or tomorrow
morning, which should beat last time around by at least a day. :-)
> I agree that the meeting should focus on the roadmap issues,
> specifically on (1) Clear, attainable goals for Sunbird 0.3beta and
> Lightning 0.2
I think this might be putting the cart before the horse. It seems to me
that we would do better to do a little brainstorming about exactly what
we think 1.0 should mean in terms of both time-frame and features. We
could use the output of this brainstorming as input to help decide what
the milestones between here and 1.0 look like.
One possibility that might work well for Lightning would be if 1.0 were
to coincide with Thunderbird 2.0 (currently planned for October or
November of this year). If this turns out to be something that would
work well for all the stakeholders, we could then sort out feature set
and milestones based on what we think is doable in that time-frame.
> (2) The future of the Calendar extension.
Sounds good.
> (3?) Browser
> calendaring (I don't know where dmose stands on this, I know he was
> trying to find time to devote some brainpower to it.)
I haven't had a chance to give a lot of thought to this yet, so I'm
inclined to suggest that we punt on this until the next meeting.
> I also think it might be useful to spend a bit of time at the beginning
> summarizing the feedback (from everyone's point of view) from Lightning
> 0.1. This would probably help in setting the roadmap goals for 0.2.
Yes, makes sense.
>> Nevertheless, a follow-up meeting should be considered useful/required
>> anyway.
> I agree.
Definitely. In fact, I'd like to propose that we start having these
meetings at least every couple of weeks, maybe even every week for a
while, until we get to the point where we're running low on stuff to
discuss, which I suspect will be quite a while. :-)
Dan
Dan Mosedale
I think it's worth going, yes. It might be a good occasion for some of
us to meet face-to-face.
We probably want to put together some sort of meeting where all the
calendar hackers have a chance to get together, meet, and talk about
stuff. Whether it would make sense to do that in concert with the
CalConnect meeting, I don't know.
In any case, I vote we put off discussion on this until the next meeting
(assuming that's only going to be a week or two away).
Dan
Stephan Schaefer
>> specifically on (1) Clear, attainable goals for Sunbird 0.3beta and
>> Lightning 0.2
>
> I think this might be putting the cart before the horse. It seems to me
> that we would do better to do a little brainstorming about exactly what
> we think 1.0 should mean in terms of both time-frame and features. We
> could use the output of this brainstorming as input to help decide what
> the milestones between here and 1.0 look like.
>
> One possibility that might work well for Lightning would be if 1.0 were
> to coincide with Thunderbird 2.0 (currently planned for October or
> November of this year). If this turns out to be something that would
> work well for all the stakeholders, we could then sort out feature set
> and milestones based on what we think is doable in that time-frame.
>
This sounds very reasonable and should be a good starting point to set
an initial time frame. So, if Lightning 1.0 would target Thunderbird 2.0
as its host which you say is plannned to be released end of this year,
we should start collecting feature requests that might require changes
in Thunderbird. The first thing that comes to my mind is iTIP/iMIP
support (http://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:ITIP_and_iMIP_Support) We
should try to get the required changes accepted by the tbird team even
if we may not be able to finish the corresponding implementation in
Lightning in the same time frame.
Other things that I would like to discuss and see addressed in a road
map for 1.0 are the following topics:
Calendar views: severe improvements in the visual appearance and a well
defined feature set
Thunderbird integration: rethink the current pane layout, switch
toolbars when in lightning, etc.
Event handling: simplify invitations, free/busy, time zones, Undo/Redo
Task handling and corresponding task pane/agenda: not sure what the
exact status/plans are
Alarms
Caching for remote calendars/offline support
Printing
PDA sync (may be 1.x ?)
I also would like to know what people think about short specification
pages (WiKi based) that describe existing and planned features. This
would allow for a more concentrated feature implementing phase and would
make testing (and using) of those features much simpler. Once we agree
on a feature set we could set up pages for the individual features and
define the details.
What about online help (or even better off-line help) ? Would it make
sense to integrate help into lightning ? From
http://calendarhelp.mozdev.org/installation.html it seems that the
current help system only applies to SunBird and the Calendar Extension.
May be we need some input from the Thunderbird team here. tbird 1.5 has
no help system like Firefox has. But if tbird 2.0 should ship with a
help system it would be great if the Lightning help could be integrated
there.
> Definitely. In fact, I'd like to propose that we start having these
> meetings at least every couple of weeks, maybe even every week for a
> while, until we get to the point where we're running low on stuff to
> discuss, which I suspect will be quite a while. :-)
>
Sounds good!
Stephan
Dan Mosedale
>
> OK, so it sounds like a meeting at 10:00 AM PDT (17:00 UTC) that only
> lasts an hour will work for everyone who has spoken up so far. So let's
> meet in #calendar-mtg in IRC then.
There's a fair bit of irony in the fact that because of the way I was
doing my planning, the above-quoted time doesn't exist. That is to say,
Pacific time is still PST this week, and only becomes PDT next week.
So, since it seems likely that there will be more folks from Europe in
attendance than from the US, we'll be holding the meeting at 9:00 AM PST
/ 17:00 UTC. This means that for folks who calculated their meeting
attendance time based on the UTC time originally announced, there will
be no change. My apologies.
I can't wait until we're at the point where Lightning & Sunbird will
handle this all for us!
Dan
P.S. My day went nothing like I'd envisioned, so notes / agenda stuff
isn't online yet (sigh). With luck, I'll have something up a small
number of hours from now. I'll post here once I do.
m
Dan Mosedale
>
> There's a fair bit of irony in the fact that because of the way I was
> doing my planning, the above-quoted time doesn't exist. That is to say,
> Pacific time is still PST this week, and only becomes PDT next week. So,
> since it seems likely that there will be more folks from Europe in
> attendance than from the US, we'll be holding the meeting at 9:00 AM PST
> / 17:00 UTC. This means that for folks who calculated their meeting
> attendance time based on the UTC time originally announced, there will
> be no change. My apologies.
There were lots of good possible discussion topics proposed, so I just
cherry-picked a combination that seemed to be fairly high-leverage and
that I thought could be completed within an hour. See
<http://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:Status> for details. Given how many
things we have that are worth discussing, I would like to vote for
making these meetings weekly. Worth keeping in mind, though, is that
many of these topics can be reasonably discussed asynchronously in the
m.d.a.calendar newsgroup/mailing-list pair instead of synchronously in
meetings, so this doesn't need to gate our work.
Dan
petenz
>pages (WiKi based) that describe existing and planned features. This
>would allow for a more concentrated feature implementing phase and would
>make testing (and using) of those features much simpler. Once we agree
>on a feature set we could set up pages for the individual features and
>define the details.
I think this would be very useful - currently it's hard to know what's
planned for Lightning etc., and there's no central place for
discussion. With the attention following the release of lightning now's
a good time to set this up before things get out of hand with people
posting suggestions in varioius places.
Dan Mosedale
This also contains details about our next weekly meeting, as well as
action items that folks agreed to take on.
Dan