New mooshell version quirks

[cbolson]

Having just read this thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/mootools-users/browse_thread/thread/4dd764949eccd1ed?hl=en
where Daniel wrote:
"For others that might have the same problem, I updated the MooShell
snippet but it creates a new entry upon every change ...."

I wanted to comment that personally I find this new behavior rather
annoying.
I preferred it as it was, ie you could save changes or save new.
Now you have to give out a new url each time you make a change :(

I also find the way that the "html", "css" and "javascript" labels are
over the textareas which makes it rather hard to edit/select etc the
text that is right behind them.

I know that I should post my comments directly on Piotr's blog but I
thought I might see what other users in this group thought about the
changes.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love mooshell, just not overly keen
on these latest changes.

Chris

[Oskar Krawczyk]

I believe, versioning was disabled temporarily for a valid reason– I'm pretty sure Piotr will re-add the functionality soon.

Regarding the labels overlapping editable areas, I too, find this behavior pretty annoying– which is why I'm using MooShell via Fluid with a bunch of hacks inside a user.js file. We need to convince Piotr to change this annoyance.

Oskar

___

Oskar Krawczyk
http://nouincolor.com

[Piotr Zalewa]

Yes - I found this problematic as well.
It will probably fade/slide out onFocus and disappear completely

zalun
--
London, UK

[Piotr Zalewa]

I also think it's good to have version of the same snippet.
I removed it as I have to refactor the whole process (it was implemented as a proof of concept and was too buggy to keep it like that)

2009/10/22 Piotr Zalewa <zal...@gmail.com>

--
London, UK

[cbolson]

Hi there Zalun,
Whilst I have your attention, do you have any plans for users to
create an account in mooshell and "save" their snippets in an account
so as to be able to reference them (ideally being able to give a
descriptive title and maybe the date created).

I realise that this might be out of the scope of what you are trying
to do with this code but personally I would find it very uesful :)

Chris

[Piotr Zalewa]

Current list of ideas is here:
http://wiki.github.com/zalun/mooshell/development

I always like new ideas

zalun
--
London, UK

[cbolson]

Excellent, I see that you have it in there :)

You are going to keep yourself busy with that lot!

[Aaron Newton]

also, the code is on github. want a feature? fork it, write it, push it.

[Fábio M. Costa]

yeah chris, you should start using it, if you havent already.
You could give patches and contribute with some code, its super easy.


--
Fábio Miranda Costa
Solucione Sistemas
Engenheiro de interface

[cbolson]

I've downloaded a copy but that is as far as I got.
I'm afraid it is out of my league :(
It appears to be written in python, of which I have no experience
(though willing to learn)
But I don't even know what I am supposed to do with it to get it
working, let alone make patches :(

Chris

[Ryan Florence]

Is it a django app?

Sent from my iPhone

[Fábio M. Costa]

its a django project.

--
Fábio Miranda Costa
Solucione Sistemas
Engenheiro de interface

[Sanford Whiteman]

> It appears to be written in python, of which I have no experience
> (though willing to learn)

+1, it would be great if we could port it to Jaxer w/Moo. Seriously, I
would pay for the hosting....

-- Sandy

[Piotr Zalewa]

It's a django app
project is there to simplify home installations

zalun
--
London, UK

[Piotr Zalewa]

BTW
Both origin issues are fixed now

Yeah - Mooshell is working on versions!

zalun
--
London, UK

[Oskar Krawczyk]

Damn straight.

As much as I'd love to contribute some code, Python is just not my
poison.

[cbolson]

Excellent, "update" and "save new" are back :)
Thanks!

So, it is a django project... due to my ignorance I had to look that
up to see what it was :(
I'm afraid that I am not going to be learning how that works right
now.
Shame, I fancied having a go at playing with the mooshell code.....
maybe I'll have to emultae it in php....

[Piotr Zalewa]

I will put a "django noob" installation process doc.
Mostly for people who'd llike to work on UI

zalun
--
London, UK

[Oskar Krawczyk]

++

[Aaron Newton]

I find it's always nice to have an excuse to learn a new programming language. Adding a feature to MooShell is a way for you to add a line to your resume. The Django tutorials and the Python book (online for free) are really awesome. Python isn't that hard to get the hang of (at least the basics).

[Piotr Zalewa]

And instructions to fire up mooshell locally are fixed now. Just check http://github.com/zalun/mooshell/ look in Wiki pages. I tried to make it as easy as possible.

On Oct 23, 2009 4:45 PM, "Aaron Newton" <aa...@iminta.com> wrote:

I find it's always nice to have an excuse to learn a new programming language. Adding a feature to MooShell is a way for you to add a line to your resume. The Django tutorials and the Python book (online for free) are really awesome. Python isn't that hard to get the hang of (at least the basics).

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 2:15 AM, cbolson <ch...@cbolson.com> wrote: > > > Excellent, "update" and ...

[Lucas Saud]

hi i have an idea to convert this python app to php5...anyone like
this idea? suggestions? ideas?

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 4:44 AM, Lucas Saud <lucas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> hi i have an idea to convert this python app to php5...anyone like
> this idea? suggestions? ideas?
>

http://darthno.ytmnd.com/

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

[Piotr Zalewa]

Lucas: why?
Is Django to hard to use?
--
London, UK

[cbolson]

Lucas, I was thinking along the same lines - mooshells on php would be
great!
When, earlier in this thread it was suggested by Fabio that I "give
patches and contribute with some code" I foolishly expected that it
would be in php and that it would be "easy". I must say that I was
dissapointed by what I found :( - not by the product but by the fact
that I had absolutely no idea as to what to do with what I had
downloaded.

Being in python/Django counts me out as far as being able to help in
any way with the code.
I would be interesed in learning Python but Django is beyond me and
the web is certainly not very helpful.
I have taken a good look at it (Django) and I must admit to not really
understanding what it is all about - it seems to require some sort of
server installation and, unless one has their own server or has
adminstrator rights to the server I can't see how this can be done.
If I where to develop anything like this I would want to be able to do
it online. Creating something locally on my machine is of absolutley
no use/interest to me.

Mooshell is a great product, but I can't see any reason why it
couldn't equally be developed with php, I am sure that that would open
it up to more developers.

Chris

[Rajeev J Sebastian]

Django is one of the best documented pieces of software out there. Kindly see

http://djangoproject.com/documentation/

You do not need a server or anything to run django. In fact, its
easier than php to get started with django. I don't know from where
you got your info, but it must've been really misleading.

Piotr has already documented how to get started with mooshell. Once
you have downloaded all the deps (of which there are only very few),
you can simply do:

python ./manage.py runserver

... and browse to localhost:8000 in your favorite browser.

As for hosting, there are a number of hosting options. My favorite is
to run django in a VPS with nginx+fastcgi and postgresql.

As far as PHP is concerned ... lets not even go there ...

Regards
Rajeev J Sebastian

[Piotr Zalewa]

So far the only reason behind having mooshell in PHP is that it is easier to code with.

> I can't see any reason why it couldn't equally be developed with php

I also can't see any reason why it couldn't equally be developed in Haskell.... or Java, RoR, Keppler, Perl, Fortran (eeeh no - take it back- no Fortran), name it. But I see the reason why it was done in Django. I like it that way.

Well you know - I've been there (in the PHP world) for like 6 years (was it 8?) and since a year I'm using Django (day to day). I may tell you - I think PHP is to backend as jQuery is to JS - easy to learn, hard to really master. I actually found learning mootools and Django very similar - They both are more complicated on the beginning, but after a bit of learning (few days of fun) they are just awesome. When I have to go back to support old PHP sites with jQuery or Prototype I have a headache. Django/Python is very well documented, language is well structured, code is way cleaner just because it is thought out properly. Well what can I say more? Aaah there is a Python to Mootools class translator (not that it was used in MooShell).

I'm not here to convince anyone to Django, but I see no point in rewriting the whole tool to a different language just because it is easier to someone. If you want to contribute to MooShell you may take it as a good excuse to learn another language - there's never enough of them once you start.

MooShell is written as a Django application and may be added to an existing Django project pretty easily. It works like a plugin. Integrating it takes minutes. Regardless the database behind.

There is only one framework into which I would consider to rewrite MooShell just to proove the point it can be done. Raccoon http://raccoon.keetology.com/

If you want to contribute to front end you don't have to know Django/Python:  http://wiki.github.com/zalun/mooshell/html-js-css (please do)

Installation is now a step by step process: http://wiki.github.com/zalun/mooshell/installation

Regards
zalun
--

[Ryan Florence]

While I have no experience with python and django, as I understand it, you can talk about moving from php to django or from php to ruby on rails and have similar "holy crap this is so much better" experiences.

I'm actually quite excited to have an excuse to pick up on django now.

Ryan Florence

[Writing TextMate Snippets] ( http://blog.flobro.com/ )

[cbolson]

>So far the only reason behind having mooshell in PHP is that it is easier to
code with.

And that is why it makes sense to me :)

> I also can't see any reason why it couldn't equally be developed in
> Haskell.... or Java, RoR, Keppler, Perl, Fortran (eeeh no - take it back- no
> Fortran), name it. But I see the reason why it was done in Django. I like it
> that way.

Absolutely, I wasn't trying to suggest that it *should* be programed
in php, only that it would be possible.
The only reason *I* would like it in php is that *I* could jump in and
take a look at it easily without having to learn a new language.

> I'm not here to convince anyone to Django, but I see no point in rewriting
> the whole tool to a different language just because it is easier to someone.

Of course not, I don't think that anyone was suggesting that you
did :)

> Installation is now a step by step process:http://wiki.github.com/zalun/mooshell/installation

I have taken a look at that and must admit to not having understood
pretty much any of it :(
It all looks like server-admin stuff to me, an area which I have
absolutely no knowledge in.
I don't have adminstrator rights to my hosting server and I wouldn't
know where to start if I did.

Let it be said that I realise that all these factors are MY short
comings, this is not a problem with mooshell (in any way), Django or
Python.
I just don't feel that it is anywhere near as simple as you might
think to somebody who has no experience in: python, Django or server
administration.

Thanks for you time and for your comments :)

Chris

> just to proove the point it can be done. Raccoonhttp://raccoon.keetology.com/

[Ryan Florence]

> I just don't feel that it is anywhere near as simple as you might
> think to somebody who has no experience in: python, Django or server
> administration.

Django and similar frameworks do have an enormous hump for many.

Believe me, it's worth it.

Again, I don't do anything in Django but I know it's really similar to
Rails. I can do stuff in rails in 10 minutes what took me 10 days in
php. It'll be worth your time to figure it out.

Ryan Florence

[Writing TextMate Snippets] ( http://blog.flobro.com/ )

[Fábio M. Costa]

The installation instructions are to make it run locally. If you want to run it on a server you will need to install mod_python or use wsgi, it can be tricky. But you dont need to install it on a server if you just want to contribute anyway.

--
Fábio Miranda Costa
Solucione Sistemas
Engenheiro de interface

[Aaron Newton]

I just want to throw my hat in and say that there's no reason to re-author this in PHP. It's a great excuse to learn Python if you haven't already, getting it running is pretty simple, and the Django/Python docs are free and online. It would be one thing if we intended people to deploy this thing (like the Depender app), but that's not its purpose. Reauthoring it in another language so that we don't have to learn a new one isn't a great reason to double our work and essentially split the project.

2009/10/27 Fábio M. Costa <fabio...@gmail.com>

[Lucas Saud]

just because i like php, its simple and easy.

2009/10/27 Piotr Zalewa <zal...@gmail.com>:

[Aaron Newton]

that's not a good reason to rewrite it.

[ibolmo]

If you're having trouble understanding Python, reconsider your career
in software development.

[Fábio M. Costa]

Lets keep the "thats not a good argument" argument.

--
Fábio Miranda Costa
Solucione Sistemas
Engenheiro de interface

[ibolmo]

:D, sorry late last night.. but sharp and to the point is sometimes
needed to knock some sense.

[Lucas Saud]

ok. not for you. but suficient for me. i like php. and just for fun i
will rewrite it. :-) cheers

2009/11/6 Aaron Newton <aa...@iminta.com>: