JetBrains PyCharm
youssef elatia
Pierre Thibault
IntelliJ Idea is one of the best IDE to program in Java. It has lots of tool for refactoring and it is a very good for working with agile methodologies. It has a free version but we have to pay for the full version. The free version is pretty limited.
Eclipse with Pydev and Netbeans 6.8 with the Python plug-in are good choices too. I also like the Stani's Python editor.
So this good news. More and more tools are available for Python developer. A new trend is started and the future seems very exciting.
http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/PYH/JetBrains+PyCharm+PreviewEnjoy--
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A+
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Pierre
Éric St-Jean
http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=25827&discussionID=10990694
My take on it was:
- eclipse+pydev seem nice but last time i tried they were just way too heavy
- netbeans/python seems quite nice - haven't tried it; did anyone here try it? i might be wrong, but i think it's the only completely free IDE that has debugging, refactoring, code completion, and it also has helpers for code coverage, a test runner UI, VCS integration, ... (at this point yannick and others, me included, would jump in to say you can do this with emacs and external programs, but having all of it integrated is really good)
- the Eric IDE (no relation :) ) seems very solid and got kudos from many in that thread, and it actually looks like it's another free one that includes all the features i just listed!
- i have lots of experience with Komodo Pro, which i liked quite a lot; includes most of those features as well, adds a regular expression builder that's really helpful, and is very light on resources considering it's a full-featured IDE. I stopped using it because it has a "vi mode" that sucks - why can't any of those IDEs integrate an actual vim instance? that's all i want!
- i use vim most of the time; unfortunately, vimpdb, a python debugger integration, is borked with vim 7.x :(. i debug straight with pdb most of the time
- emacs of course came up a few times
- wing is another non-free IDE that comes up a lot
Considering you have eclipse+pydev, netbeans/python and eric that are chock full of all features you'd want (short of actual emacs or vim integration :) ), i really don't see at this point why anyone would spend time with a non-free python IDE.
Éric St-Jean
> Considering you have eclipse+pydev, netbeans/python and eric that are
> chock full of all features you'd want (short of actual emacs or vim
> integration :) ), i really don't see at this point why anyone would
> spend time with a non-free python IDE.
scrap the caveat!
turns out there's a netbeans plugin that does a full vim "emulation" (it
actually uses a lot of vim code to do so) - http://jvi.sourceforge.net/
And it supports most of what vim does, it's not just a custom
keybinding setting that emulates vi.
My only caveat so far is that it doesn't read in ~/.vimrc, so you have
to reset your options (such as expandtabs), but you can set them
nonetheless from the GUI.
Pierre Thibault
There was a long thread in the linkedin python group about Python IDEs:
http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=25827&discussionID=10990694
OK. Thank you.
Considering you have eclipse+pydev, netbeans/python and eric that are chock full of all features you'd want (short of actual emacs or vim integration :) ), i really don't see at this point why anyone would spend time with a non-free python IDE.
WingIDE and IntelliJ can be a very smart choice.
A+
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Pierre
Yannick Gingras
> There was a long thread in the linkedin python group about Python IDEs:
>
Maybe I'm old school but I don't quite get what the point of an IDE
is. If want to edit code, I use and editor with programmable macros;
if I need to interact with my code, I use the greatest Python shell
out there, ipython; if I want to debug, I use the greatest debugger
money can buy, the Pylons debugger (or pdb once in a while); and if I
want to edit a gui, I fire up Qt Designer. These tools are all
related but they are loosely coupled and cramping them inside a single
window provides very little benefit compared to them being only one
alt-tab away.
Now you might be tempted to reply to me and to start a long flame war,
but that would not be very productive. The productive way to do it is
to jump on the stage, just like Jean did, and to show us how your
programming environment helps you to work better. Don't try to bash
on other tools; it feels good but it won't help others to understand
how to work with your tools.
Any taker?
--
Yannick Gingras
http://ygingras.net
http://confoo.ca -- track coordinator
http://montrealpython.org -- lead organizer
Alexandre Quessy
Je ne veux présenter vim à Python MTL, (ça a déjà été fait, non ?)
mais je veux seulement dire que je préfère Glade-3 à QT Designer.
;-P
a
2010/2/9 Yannick Gingras <ygin...@ygingras.net>:
--
Alexandre Quessy
http://alexandre.quessy.net/
Pierre Thibault
On February 9, 2010, Éric St-Jean wrote:
> There was a long thread in the linkedin python group about Python IDEs:
> http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=25827&discussionID=10990694
>
Maybe I'm old school but I don't quite get what the point of an IDE
is.
Things like Emacs are dangerous tools for the evolution of computer development. The problem with these tools is that it presents things as individual files. As soon as we start to use higher concepts that manifest them self in the project as a whole, the flaw in this approach starts to appear. The best example is with aspect oriented programming. IDE are able to address these cross cutting concerns very easily. I think this is the major reason to use an IDE. Eclipse Mylyn would be another example.
Other than that, I think it is a matter of personal affairs.
A+
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Pierre
Dimitry Zolotaryov
the tools to create richer applications. "Where is my code tree!" I
would exclaim when forced to use VIM. It's only recently that I've
understood how modern IDEs simply compensate for other problems.
Now I'm no AOP expert, so I speak from experience on OO-style
projects, but I did notice that the only time I need to touch more
than 3-4 files is when the core library did not respond to my
expectations (poor docs or buggy code) or I'm not focusing on a single
task. I feel like as code matures and as my skills improve, both
issues disappear.
This is all assuming you are programming in Python. I remember the
saying "Life is too short for Java"; I would add that there is no
screen big enough to hold its code. When I work with Java, I make
where I have a mouse with a scroll wheel.
Dimitry
Éric St-Jean
> At one Point, I was with Pierre on the idea that modern IDEs provide
> the tools to create richer applications. "Where is my code tree!" I
> would exclaim when forced to use VIM. It's only recently that I've
> understood how modern IDEs simply compensate for other problems.
>
You both have excellent points, but recently i've been working on a
contract working with Zope+Plone. Arg! what a mess. A simple document
type (which holds a page you see in the site) has 800+ attributes and
methods. They went completely insanely crazy with multiple inheritance,
so you have no idea where one of those methods came from. In such a
model, you always have to play with 4-5 files open at once. My normal
vim setup has a tree on the left (with classes and methods of the open
files) and 2 open files side-by-side. It works well. But having an IDE
which will have indexed all of zope+plone+the libs+my project+python
libs allows me to easily jump to the actual definition of a method. I
know this can all be done with vim or emacs, but then there's also easy
debugging: editing the file and just easily do "run my project until it
hits my cursor". What i normally do in vim is to add "import pdb;
pdb.set_trace()", then switch to shell and run it. That works, but at
some point things just become disjointed, i find. So i'm generally not
an IDE person, and for 95% of my tasks i'll stick with my vim setup. But
for some tasks and huge messes like plone, i think i'll give
netbeans/python a try, especially now that i found this full vim mode
for it...
i'm not sure it'll foot the bill and i'll probably go back to vim,
though :)
but i do see a point to using IDEs for large code bases.
Alex Gal
The eternal debate: simple tools vs swiss knife
I use eclipse daily both as an IDE and as a development platform.
what I like about it:
* its compiler that can recompile only changes to resources (it can be
used on its own)
* some refactoring methods
* api to create your own plugins to access the underlying AST/resources/etc
* great [java] debugger
* errors/warnings views and error markers containing the exact
location in the file
what I dislike:
* editing code in a file editor is much slower than editing it in vim
* not following the unix philosophy of breaking tools apart
* voodoo art for the product build system (it generates on the fly
huge amounts of ant code .. an ant diarrhea)
* all the bloatness associated with it (mylyn, team, synchronization,
xml tools, etc)
* requires at least 2 screens to work with big projects (file editors,
console, junit, problems, etc)
some solutions
* eclim http://eclim.org/ "The primary goal of eclim is to bring
Eclipse functionality to the Vim editor."
* the "golden path": decoupling the IDE:
* $EDITOR for file editing
* another program to deal with the resources/ast/indexing of the
underlying code base
* api for the AST
* refactoring could be scripted instead
In python, I usually use screen with multiple tabs (vim editors,
ipython shell, etc).
In big java enterprisey applications with huge dependencies, only
using vim is not always enough.
> Other than that, I think it is a matter of personal affairs.
>
> A+
>
> -------------
> Pierre
>
Ahmed Al-Saadi
>
> On February 9, 2010, �ric St-Jean wrote:
> > There was a long thread in the linkedin python group about
> Python IDEs:
> >
> http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=25827&discussionID=10990694
> <http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=25827&discussionID=10990694>
> >
>
> Maybe I'm old school but I don't quite get what the point of an IDE
> is.
>
>
> Things like Emacs are dangerous tools for the evolution of computer
> development. The problem with these tools is that it presents things
> as individual files. As soon as we start to use higher concepts that
> manifest them self in the project as a whole, the flaw in this
> approach starts to appear. The best example is with aspect oriented
> programming.
higher-level paradigms are academic or niche-oriented at best. Maybe
some day, but then again, maybe not! After all, it is the simplicity of
the file model that made it so ubiquitous.
I do agree with your statement that the choice of your development
environment is a personal matter, but perhaps with a twist. I'm a
believer in the social-psychological-emotional motivation of software
choices (including development tools). David Hansson's (Rails dude)
"programmer happiness" applies here. Not sure if happiness leads to
better efficiency (presumably the goal of a better software choice?!),
but if it does, use whatever you like to write your software even if it
is a pencil and a paper. Anyone knows an interested research
psychologist who perhaps can help here? :)
Cheers,
Ahmed