Fw: [Monbiot] What happens when?

[Lila Smith]

Oops sorry I mean tobacco seeds (-: By the way we are fighting like mad to stop fracking in our province also, not to mention sand dredging to send iron ore to china.....what I resent is ruining our province to send resources overseas...... would not mind if we used our own in a small way, our oil is extracted and sent overseas and returned at a horrific price.......

Lila Smith
www.windwand.co.nz
Taranaki Tourism Website
www.windwand.co.nz/organickitchengarden.htm
Organic Kitchen Gardening
Mob 021230 7962
06 7512942
201 Omata Road
New Plymouth
New Zealand

----- Original Message -----

From: Lila Smith

To: monbiot...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 10:20 AM

Subject: Re: [Monbiot] What happens when?

we have just purchased our first tobacco plants, have not put them in this year but will next year, great climate, just need to perfect the operation.

Now we are perfecting our compost so we can start growing our own mushrooms.

 

Sounds like everyone is going in the right direction.  Once upon a time I would not even bother to grow tobacco or mushrooms, however these methods have to be started again from home.

 

Lila Smith
www.windwand.co.nz
Taranaki Tourism Website
www.windwand.co.nz/organickitchengarden.htm
Organic Kitchen Gardening
Mob 021230 7962
06 7512942
201 Omata Road
New Plymouth
New Zealand

----- Original Message -----

From: tmgraphics

To: monbiot...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 4:51 AM

Subject: Re: [Monbiot] What happens when?

Your lifestyle sounds realistic, Patrick, somewhat similar in many respects (probably mainly attitude) to ours; it can be fun but is always challenging.

We don't bother with magazines, newspapers etc and subscribe to very little of that sort of thing. We make our own music. We have no need for tv or radio, we lead too busy a life for that nonsense.

Still a long way to go in the energy stakes and we're fighting a battle against fracking this county, so trying hard not to be hypocritical.

More power to you, pun intended.

David

On 6 Jan 2012, at 23:37, PAdam...@aol.com wrote:

Hi Roger,

 

Road fuel was around 80p a litre in the UK for several years, then the spike of 2008 saw it rise to over £1.30, then it dropped back rapidly to under 90p, since then it has steadily climbed to nearly £1.40. Our Government has rtied to mitigate it by cancelling and defering a few planned tax increases, but there is no doubt high transport fuel cost is depressing the economy. Heating oil has also become cripplingly expensive. Solid fuel and gas have risen proportionately.

 

Read Heisenberg "the Party is over" for a good idea as to what happens with peak oil. We get the see-saw effect - economy grows, oil prices rocket, economy stalls, they fall. Stability and confidence has gone. The price crashes deter investment, making the next spike even higher.

 

I have had to adapt. My old Land Rover is gone. Now I use an old mail van, with towbar fitted. I only do the small local market, and do all my shopping while I am there. I have downsized the business, but am looking at developing new products to match a customer base with reduced spending power. Nearly every material posession I have is either inherited or was obtained through freecycle. Most newspaper and magazine subs have been cancelled. Leisure spending, which was always low, has almost disappeared. As for food, I only buy bread (or flour), tea, coffee, spices, oil and lentils. Rice and pasta are luxuries, as are fish and olives. But I have an abundance of meat, milk, veg, fruit and eggs. Wild foods - edible plants, rabbits, pigeons, squirrels etc are also collected. I wish I could grow my own tobacco, like my grandfather did - but he lived with a better climate for it!

 

My new solar PV system generated 2.8 units today - not bad for a mostly overcast early January day. So far this winter I have only used home grown firewood for heating. I am investigating the feasibility of a micro-hydro, which would complement the solar PV nicely, as I have a tumbling stream running through the land.  I have had solar thermal for hot water since 2004.

 

What more can I do? Moreover, what relevance do I have, on a small farm, with a very small turnover? The world outside seems feckless, profligate and totally unprepared for the storm that is beginning.

 

Patrick

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[Roger Priddle]

Canada is lucky to have huge natural resources ("hewers of wood and drawers of water"), immense space and a relatively small population.  However, that has meant that all sorts of abuses have become the norm.  Clear-cutting, open pit mining, huge tailings ponds (lakes), mostly for resources for export.  The Alberta Tar sands (which consume 3 barrels of water for each barrel of oil produced) is just starting to be developed so we can export the bitumen to the US, the "Alaska North Slope" oil fields, which the US wants, are located mostly above the Arctic Circle.  Oh yeah, and "Fracking" is becoming an issue here too.

Most of Canada is above the 50th parallel - this time of year we're down to 10.5 hours of daylight and temps below freezing (I think the forecast for tonight is about - 15c) so the only local food is what we preserved in September (and there won't be any more produce until July or August.)

The average home here consumes about 30kwHr of electricity/day - my pv produced about 1.6kwHr.  Ok, my home was designed to use 4.5 in the winter but still - I need some sun soon.

One of the great hopes I have is the development of Thin film PV.  Expected to retail at about $1.25Cdn/Watt, this could change many things.  I was in the local hardware/automotive department store today.  They have about an acre of roof, flat and unobstructed.  And no solar systems at all.  Not water heating (which is what they use for space heating), not PV.  And this is just one of hundreds of similar buildings within 30kms.  The technology exists but the mind-set doesn't.

I made a proposal to the local high school (secondary school, whatever you might call it). I figured I could get all the materials and labour donated to make hot water panels that could be used to supplement the heat for the school.  The reaction I got was that it would mean "making a hole in the building envelope that might leak" and that therefore the project was not feasible. 

I said, quietly and under my breath so no-one could hear, that if our maintenance people couldn't seal up a hole in the roof, we should hire maintenance people who could!

Patrick, David, Lila - you're all adapting.  It's not always fun but it demonstrates a responsible attitude.  How does one convince large organizations to try it?  I tried to sell it as a "learning opportunity", and as a fiscal benefit, but I was ignored.

Arrgh.

Roger.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.  (George Carlin)

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.  (Mahatma Gandhi)

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed individuals can change the world: indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!  (Margaret Meade)

[Duncan Hewitt]

Do you have a Transition Town or similar group near you that you can use to raise awareness of issues such as the school's heating? Our local group managed to persuade a local Grade 1 listed church to install a PV array on their roof - it helped by pointing out how much money they could make and/or save. But as a group people tend to take you more seriously - it always amazes me. If there is no group, maybe start one?

Duncan

[Roger Priddle]

Actually, we do have a Transition Town group here - active and enthusiastic.  I'll put your idea to them - their support might indeed help.

BTW, I got to thinking about my whining about latitude so I checked - Melbourne Australia is much closer to the Equator but Northern Ireland is (mostly) further North than I am (but not so cold, I think.)

One of the real gardeners (I'm a rookie) will be able to tell me how much "Hours of Daylight" impacts plant growth especially during the winter months.  I know that freezing inhibits growth <grin>... as does (I suppose) watering things with ice.

Roger.

[Mark Lynds]

<roger....@gmail.com> wrote:

Most of Canada is above the 50th parallel - this time of year we're down to 10.5 hours of daylight and temps below freezing (I think the forecast for tonight is about - 15c) so the only local food is what we preserved in September (and there won't be any more produce until July or August.)

The average home here consumes about 30kwHr of electricity/day - my pv produced about 1.6kwHr.  Ok, my home was designed to use 4.5 in the winter but still - I need some sun soon.

It's amazing that such a large nation, 120 times the size of the UK, can be meaningfully reduced to averages in this way.

[Roger Priddle]

Mark - you're right.  (Back to the "Lies, Damned lies, and Statistics" reference. <grin>)  I'm in Central Ontario, not either the British Columbia coast (west) or the Maritime Provinces (east).  The comment on electricity consumption was based on the "average electric bill" of  900 KwHr/month that was published by the utility a few years ago.

I lived 16 years in Vancouver, where the temperatures are much milder (seldom below freezing) but frequently cloudy and very humid.  On the other hand, 2 hours inland lie the Rockies and the effective end of the warming from the Pacific.  Daylight hours vary through the year (obviously) but the further north one goes, the more extreme the differences.

In Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, the daylight today lasts about 8 hours (dawn to dusk) which provides a very limited window for PV.  By June, they'll have more than 18 hours, whereas I'll have about 13.5.

My comment was intended to relate to food produced in the garden, not the greenhouse.  Ok, I don't really know when lettuce stops growing where I am but most of the gardeners I know have finished their salad greens by the end of September and, given that "traditional knowledge" here says you don't put seedlings out in the garden until mid-May, and the early varieties that I know of take 45-50 days, mean that the harvest starts in early July.

I have an ex-wife who's a gardener in Northern Alberta.  She gets a great crop, but has to watch for frost in early September.

Canada is huge but, aside from the 2 coasts, where I live is probably one of the more benign growing areas of the country.  Ditto for PV, especially during the winter months..

The sun is shining this morning - now if I can just get up to  clear the PV panels, my batteries should get a good charge.

Roger

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[Roger Priddle]

Mark, further to my last post (and I had to look this up to refresh my memory...) the situations I described were intended to be examples of the "median" (half way between the best case and worst case scenarios), not the "mean" (mathematical "average").

And I take back my comment about no more fresh produce until July or August - end of June, early July would have been more accurate.

Roger.

[tmgraphics]

On 7 Jan 2012, at 21:24, Lila Smith wrote:

By the way we are fighting like mad to stop fracking in our province also, not to mention sand dredging to send iron ore to china.....what I resent is ruining our province to send resources overseas...... would not mind if we used our own in a small way, our oil is extracted and sent overseas and returned at a horrific price

One unanswered question regarding fracking in Ireland is where the sand comes from. It has to be a particular sort, round grains I think, very slick. I believe it can be 'manufactured' in some way but, in any case, either they try to dredge zillions of tons of something we don't have a lot of, or they spend a lot of energy transporting it from other countries or whatever is necessary. The energy return on that invested in shale gas is extremely poor as it is.

Similarly, what little oil and gas we have is sold on world markets. It doesn't belong to the people whose land it is.

David

[tmgraphics]

On 7 Jan 2012, at 22:05, Roger Priddle wrote:

How does one convince large organizations to try it?

It should happen when they're convinced it will save them money/make them money.

David

[Roger Priddle]

David - I couldn't agree with you more!  It SHOULD happen that way.  But the combination of reluctance to take risks (i.e. try something new), vested interest (the employee who services the boiler might not be needed as much) and organizational inertia ("We've always done it this way...") means that every step up the chain of command is a new battle to fight and, without a champion high up in the organization, the doors simply don't open.  I can't convince the next guy if I can't get a meeting.

Maybe I'm the wrong person - too idealistic, too enthusiastic, too individualistic.  But what I see is that the risk/return ratio (not from the end result but from the risk inherent in advocacy) is too great.  No-one wants to listen. 

However, I'm working on the "dripping water" principle - maybe they'll hear other voices saying the same thing and my presentations, added to the others, will be enough to tip the scale.  I can but hope.

Meanwhile, a sunny hour here has raised 650l. of water in my attic by 12 degrees c.  I'm a happy camper.

Roger.

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[Duncan Hewitt]

Or when governments legislate they *must* do it. Which is an even slower process if you live in the UK...

Duncan

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[Kuttappan Vijayachandran]

@patrick

Human progress triggered by the globalization of intellectual labor with the help of ICT revolution will be far less demanding on energy, compared to the progress registered by globalization of physical labor, based on industrial revolution and steam power. We are unable to make use of these possibilities due to the system constraints inherent in market economy, driven by income differentials: every one is under moral compulsion to take more than what he gives and crisis and confusion are inherent under this system.

 

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