Re: [Monbiot] Digest for monbiot-discuss@googlegroups.com - 4 Messages in 3 Topics
Andrew Inglis
one of the most bushfire prone areas on earth , even long grass
constitutes fire risk, worse given the hilly slopes and recent rains.
I am pondering the permaculture"starry vision" with the realities of
assessing risks to pretty sizeable investments. The neighbours have
just advised of the tiger snakes in the grass, It's been pretty wet
for the last month and the "dry-out" and fire ban season is imminent.
So cutting grass at least in vicinity of the dwelling (say 20 metres
of only shrubs or small, intermittent trees (Deciduous or non-
eucalypts) as required under Bushfire Assesment Levels!) is a blunt
necesity here. In the longerterm it may be gravel verge or similar
that will ensure haard reduction. Similar concerns are about use of
swales and contours "rills" and the revegetation along spiralling
paths : they may have great virtue and logic re water conservation
(Keyline method) etc but theyt provide a direct path for snakes
feeding on frogs etc: I suppose that would be a direct measure of
success, having greater diversity. Does anyone know of non-destructive
ways of dealing with snakes (one can't use baits or similar because of
other animals including the neighbour's dogs.
Believe it or not domestic cats do not do well here in dealing with
snakes: don't knoiw how the foxes or rabbits cope but they survive
(heven knows why they were ever introduced!!)
I think there is a lot of hard "rediscovery" to be done at many
cultural and social levels, even though much of this "Embedded" wisdom
is commonplace, even if not common sense. Anyone remember the "Street
farmers" and " Radical Ecology" folk of the 1970's : whatever become
of those visionaries? Did all hippies become grandparents and
mortgagees?
Wasn't it Deeming who said:
Data is not Information, Information is not Knowledge, and Knowledge
is not Wisdom.
As an aside at TAFE where I teach, I find students taking digital
pictures of the whiteboard notes and diagrams I make: I mean why write
, how stupid would that be eh?. This is a classic demonstration of
mistaking the Information (The digital; snapof what I wrote) for
rewriting absorbing and questioning the knowledge until it is
internalized (ie wisdom). It is always the better students and the
sceptical who "test" facts before applying them.
Anyhow, I'm having to fill the brushcutter and load the mower at least
until I can get the grass to a point where a few sheep can graze
happily. It's a sordid world!
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 8:17 AM, <monbiot...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Today's Topic Summary
>
> Group: http://groups.google.com/group/monbiot-discuss/topics
>
> top soil and carbon. [1 Update]
> horse power? [2 Updates]
> Concentrated Solar Power [1 Update]
>
> top soil and carbon.
>
> "Lila Smith" <lil...@ihug.co.nz> Dec 14 07:31AM +1300
>
> Do you know that there is only 18 percent of carbon left in the worlds top
> soil, after all carbon is dead leaves that fall from trees and waste matter
> from foliage, as in a true forest form, so in ploughing and using land we
> simply do not return carbon like nature can
> shockingly 18 per cent is not going to be enough to start to turn the worm
> back to healthy top soil, the worlds top soil is stuffed and will take
> probably an ice age or similar to stop us viral humans from robbing and
> destroying.
>
> If you have a paddock to grow food don't plough, never plough, that is the
> first mistake, instead load the surface with whatever you can, put
> truckloads of anything like straw, absolutely anything organic, let the
> weeds grow, then mow them and leave it on top of the soil to break down, its
> like the no dig gardens, you simply put layer and layer of organics on top
> and let the compost worms develop, the world is not going to starve you
> overnight, just return to forest thinking, ploughing destroys worms and
> microorganisms...simply cover the soil and leave and let nature take its
> course
> Lila Smith
> www.windwand.co.nz
> Taranaki Tourism Website
> www.windwand.co.nz/organickitchengarden.htm
> Organic Kitchen Gardening
> Mob 021230 7962
> 06 7512942
> 201 Omata Road
> New Plymouth
> New Zealand
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roger Priddle
> To: monbiot...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 10:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Monbiot] Digest for monbiot...@googlegroups.com - 4
> Messages in 1 Topic
>
>
> Hmm I think some form of cultivation will always be necessary unless one can
> reliably scavenge, and that won't feed enough people. I have heard of
> "no-till" planting, but I suspect it's too labour intensive and has too low
> a yield per acre. (Note: I'm not say that yield is everything but
> agriculture has to return enough to feed a family, provide seed for the next
> crop and to allow storage against famine or crop failure.)
>
>
> There is also a huge difference between the "one horse open plough" (oops,
> Christmas is just too close <grin>) and the multi-gang multi-bladed things
> that rip up prairie soil 8" to 12" deep. (Interestingly, a few years ago I
> heard from someone that up to 25% of the North American prairies are now no
> longer considered "arable soil" from over farming, overuse of pesticides and
> synthetic fertilizers, and general "mismanagement". Not good.)
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 7:12 AM, tmgraphics <grap...@tmprinting.ie> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12 Dec 2011, at 04:17, Roger Priddle wrote:
>
>
> On television, I watched a farrier shoe a Shire horse. The skills and
> expertise required are staggering. Then I remembered the saying that "they
> shall beat their swords into ploughshares." Ok, now I have a horse and a
> plough - but I have no idea how to use those two to plough a field! Let
> alone grow the wheat, harvest and grind the wheat and make bread.
>
>
> Do I think we're doomed? No, but there's a lot we need to re-learn. And a
> lot of expertise that needs to be recovered and cherished. If I had a
> grandchild, I would encourage him/her to become a blacksmith and farrier.
> After all, the horse is the ultimate "solar powered tractor"!
>
>
> Because a lot of pre-oil farming output went (will go) towards feeding the
> animals, it makes sense to study methods of feeding humans which require far
> less input.
>
>
> I'm not convinced about ploughing, for instance. It exposes a lower layer of
> soil to the elements; drying out, killing creatures underneath and losing
> soil and nutrients to erosion. We should be looking at plants that survive
> in situations where the ground is held together, not torn apart.
>
>
> I'm not saying that ploughing doesn't have its place. It probably does but
> not on the scale we starrily-eyed believe it does.
>
>
> David
>
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> (George Carlin)
>
> First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you
> win. (Mahatma Gandhi)
>
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> Meade)
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>
> horse power?
>
> PAdam...@aol.com Dec 12 05:16PM -0500
>
> If your going to use a draft animal to plough, the ox is more efficient
> than the horse. Lower centre of gravity and a ruminant, so its a more
> efficient converter of low grade fodder. Horses are fine for pulling carts
> on
> roads.
>
> I dont think we are headed in that direction though. Incredibly labour
> intensive. While we shouldnt need so many people to produce stuff, and so
> many
> crooks to make money out of others labour, we do need well educated people
> to work the technology of tomorrow.
>
> The scarce oil will be reserved for agriculture, unless we allow billions
> to starve, or billions die of disease (both probable). Mechanised
> agriculture is here to stay - but it doesnt have to be oil or its crop
> substitutes.
> Wood gas, for one, will do.
>
> We could get more efficient in our use of energy in agriculture - cheap -
> and I mean very cheap - oil has distorted things over the last few decades.
> New techniques and new crops could be developed, which dont demand nearly
> so much energy inputs.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
> Roger Priddle <roger....@gmail.com> Dec 12 07:15PM -0500
>
> Patrick - thanks for this. I don't know much about oxen. I do know that
> donkey's work well for small carts (but don't know how they're fed.)
>
> Another alternative I've heard about is llamas (or did I spell the wrong
> one...<oops>) They (and donkeys, I think) have an added advantage in that
> they will protect other animals in the field from predators. I gather they
> will stomp the heck out of invading coyotes - and wolves?
>
> While I'd like to think oil will be reserved for food, I rather suspect
> that an appalling amount will go to air flight for rich people, after most
> has been used as auto fuel by Western society.
>
> Whether "civilization" will survive a drop from 9 billion (expected by
> 2050) to 1 billion (maximum that can be fed using sustainable agriculture,
> according to what I've read) - that's an interesting question that the next
> generation is going to have to try to answer. Personally, I'm not very
> optimistic (but I try not to let it show in public...)
>
> Roger
>
>
> --
> Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.
> (George Carlin)
>
> First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then
> you win. (Mahatma Gandhi)
>
> Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed individuals can
> change the world: indeed, it's the only thing that ever has! (Margaret
> Meade)
>
>
>
> Concentrated Solar Power
>
> PAdam...@aol.com Dec 12 04:58PM -0500
>
> In a message dated 12/12/2011 09:19:43 GMT Standard Time,
> bradd...@gmail.com writes:
>
> I really think it's the way to go, despite the huge amount of
> investment required and political implications.
>
>
>
>
> Agreed. Its the simplest and most reliable form of renewable energy - the
> heat is even stored so as to generate at night. Connected to wind, hydro,
> tidal and wave in northern Europe it could replace all fossil and nuclear
> power.
>
> The other potential sustainable source is Thorium nuclear.
>
> Electrify transport, reduce energy consumption in buildings. That leaves
> agriculture. I dont think horse power is the answer there.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
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