Odd leaderboard behavior when using cellular data

[GlowPuff]

This is really strange.  I haven't used mogade leaderboards in awhile, but I am in my latest wp7 game I'm working on.  The leaderboards work great, I can submit a score and get a list just like in my previous games.  This works in the emulator, while the phone is plugged in to the computer, and when the phone is unplugged and using WIFI. 

Here's the strange thing - when I turn WIFI off and use cellular data as the network connection, leaderboards fail to submit or retrieve.  I tested the network connection in the web browser, and pages load fine, so cell data is on and functioning.  I can't debug it while plugged in because it works fine while plugged in, so I had to save the error to a file, then plug back in and read it back.  Here is the error:

System.Net.WebException: The remote server returned an error: NotFound.

But there's more.  Out of curiosity, I fired up my previous games that use leaderboards, and they no longer work while using cell data as the network connection either!  I plug the phone in, and they work fine.  I'm starting to think this is not a mogade issue, but an issue with my cell provider (TMOBILE) not connecting to the mogade website any longer.  In these older games, the leaderboards worked fine when unplugged using cell data as the network connection.  Any ideas?

[GlowPuff]

Just did another test.  Unplugged, using cell data connection, I used the web browser to visit mogade.com.  It wouldn't go.  It gives a HTTP 504 Gateway timeout.  TMOBILE is doing something weird when trying to connect to mogade, it seems.  Bummer.

[Karl Seguin]

Weird. Not sure if there's anything I can do about it. Maybe it was just a temporary hiccup in their network?

Karl

[komwone]

Hey!  I'm also having the same problem.  It has been driving me crazy for the past few days as I have been trying to add leaderboard data to my game's live tile in WP7.

I came across this post and tried to go to mogade.com with the wifi off and I get the 504 gateway page.  

I'm also on Tmobile, in NY if that helps.  

My sister is also on Tmobile (but on a different bill/plan) and can't get to mogade.com with her wifi off using her android phone either.

The live tile is only allowed 25 seconds to update and I couldn't figure out why it kept exceeding that.

Once in a while it would actually get the scores in time but only after about 20 seconds.

There is no way that it should take 20 seconds to download a couple of scores.

After reading this post I suspect that the phone is trying to get the scores over cellular, failing, retrying over wifi, and sometimes barely completing in time.

I feel like a lot of people use Windows Mobile on Tmobile and it would be really bad if all of them couldn't use my games to the fullest.

Can someone at Mogade contact Tmobile to find out what the problem is please?

[komwone]

Hey Karl, I just googled 504 Gateway and came across this site  http://getnetgoing.com/HTTP-504.html and this site  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081013193904AAIHBAr

It has a lot to do with proxy servers.  Have and proxy or server changes been made to Mogade lately?

I really hope this is resolved soon or I may need to start looking for a different leaderboard service.  Its a shame because I really love mogade.

[GlowPuff]

Interesting info, seems to be isolated to TMOBILE.  For kicks I tried using mogade.com's actual IP address (5.9.20.34) in the web browser, in case it was a DNS lookup issue, but it still does not work.

[Karl Seguin]

I won't lie, I'm not too hopeful about solving this issue. There's been no changes to mogade's infrastructure for a long time. We do run a proxy, but it hasn't changed in any way.

Honestly, the fact that this appears isolated to TMobile biases me strongly towards thinking the issue is on their end. Google searching for TMobile 504  brings up a bunch of hits.

I can't even find a way to get in touch with them...

Karl

[komwone]

Is changing the proxy mogade uses possible?

Is it a huge operation to do?

Is it a paid service?

Mogade not working on Tmobile in NY is a big deal.  It means all my analytics have been skewed quite a bit.  And I'm delaying the release of my latest game until I find a solution.

Thanks. 

[Karl Seguin]

So mogade does run behind a lightweight proxy (nginx, which takes care of some caching, logging and ssl termination). I can try taking it out and seeing if that works. It won't be done until this weekend though.

To be clear, TMobile is running its own proxy servers. That (or something close to that), is how they monitor bandwidth and turn over logs to law enforcement agencies. Most providers of internet service do. Your phone --> Tower --> TMobile --> TMobile Proxy --> Internet -> Mogade Proxy -> Mogade.

Karl

[komwone]

Cool, I can't wait to see if it works!

Please post another message here when you've made the changes so I can try it out.

Thanks!

[komwone]

Ready whenever you are.

[Karl Seguin]

non-ssl pages are no longer behind a proxy (the driver doesn't make SSL requests).

Karl

[komwone]

Looks like its still not working.  Where is your site hosted?  Are similar sites having the same issues?

Thanks for trying to fix it though.

[Karl Seguin]

The site is at Hetzner..a fairly well known hosting company.

Is it possible to get a traceroute? I don't know of any such tools for WP...I was thinking maybe if you tethered your PC to it, you might be able to pull some useful information (using something like http://winmtr.net/).

Karl

[Irzaud Hoosein]

Sorry I don't know much about this but I used the site network-tools.com and ran a trace, I get similar results on BOTH my desktop and phone browser.  They both timeout at the same line.  Even though the results are similar, the desktop browser makes it to your site but the phone's doesn't.

TraceRoute to 5.9.20.34 [mogade.com]

Hop
(ms)

(ms)
(ms)
     IP Address
Host name

 1 

  0 
  0 

  0 
     8.9.232.73

  xe-5-3-0.edge3.dallas1.level3.net  

2

9

0

0

4.69.145.190

vlan80.csw3.dallas1.level3.net

3

0

0

0

4.69.151.158

ae-83-83.ebr3.dallas1.level3.net

4

20

20

20

4.69.134.22

ae-7-7.ebr3.atlanta2.level3.net

5

43

33

41

4.69.132.86

ae-2-2.ebr1.washington1.level3.net

6

43

33

40

4.69.134.138

ae-81-81.csw3.washington1.level3.net

7

33

33

33

4.69.134.153

ae-82-82.ebr2.washington1.level3.net

8

112

112

112

4.69.137.61

ae-44-44.ebr2.paris1.level3.net

9

121

123

121

4.69.143.145

ae-48-48.ebr1.frankfurt1.level3.net

10

121

122

124

4.69.140.2

ae-61-61.csw1.frankfurt1.level3.net

11

121

121

121

4.69.154.11

ae-1-60.edge7.frankfurt1.level3.net

12

121

121

121

195.16.162.94

as33891-net.edge7.frankfurt1.level3.net

13

125

125

126

213.239.240.200

hos-bb1.juniper2.rz16.hetzner.de

14

128

129

127

213.239.223.202

hos-tr3.ex3k9.rz16.hetzner.de

15

Timed out

Timed out

Timed out

-

16

Timed out

Timed out

Timed out

-

17

Timed out

Timed out

Timed out

-

18

Timed out

Timed out

Timed out

-

Trace aborted.

[Karl Seguin]

The problem with that is that it's giving you the traceroute from the network-tools.com server...not your own computer or phone.

If you open up a command prompt and type tracrt mogade.com   you'll see a different path. However, even that doesn't help as it'll give you the traceroute of your home connection. What *might* help, is the traceroute from the phone.

I did find this application which appears to do what we'd need:

http://www.windowsphone.com/th-TH/apps/1f9e4985-5140-e011-854c-00237de2db9e

As for the timeouts, it isn't unusual for end points to block ICMP messages (like ping) at some point since ICMPs can be used very effectively for denial of service attacks. If you use network-tools.com to trace microsoft.com, you'll see the same type of thing.


Karl

[Irzaud Hoosein]

The app you mentioned wasn't working so I used this one  http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/apps/85cbf45f-b692-4851-a552-1f1c6218675a 

Over both cellular and wifi it says it went through 9 steps, the last of which was 213.239.222.74.

[komwone]

Here is something that might help.

"After doing some more research, this error is only occuring from clients accessing from South Africa.  Clients accessing from other areas are not having an issue.  I put the same code on another server in the same hosting center and the same clients in South Africa did not get the error." - http://boardreader.com/thread/HTTP_status_504_Gateway_Timeout_Error_MS_8xi2X1fd3s.html 

[Karl Seguin]

Have to say that I don't see a solution listed there...just someone linking to a product that can shifty looking product...

[komwone]

Sorry, should have been more specific in what I was showing you.  I merely wanted to point out that someone fixed a similar problem by moving to another server in the same hosting center.  I don't know if that is possible for you.  

Looks like there is nothing that can be done to fix this short of switching to another host.

I actually called tmobile and they were absolutely no help.  They said my phone was incompatible with the gateway.  I then pointed out that my other devices from other manufacturers had the same problem for which they had no response.  

I was actually able to reach mogade in the phone browser over cellular by using  http://newip.us/  and  https://proxify.com/ 

What does that mean?  I'm not very experienced with this but I would suggest trying different proxys on mogade's end (I know you said you removed it, maybe the answer is to use a different one) or even adding an option to use a proxy in the mogade driver on the phone.  However, I sort of recall that proxys for commercial or mass use is not allowed or not free or something.

Let me know what you think.

[Karl Seguin]

That those services work means that the link between You/Tmobile to newip.us is fine and then the link between newip.us and mogade.com is fine. It kinda of acts as an intermediary...forcing your traffic down a specific path (and very much likely not the normal path it takes).

I appreciate you trying to help, but I have to say that, for the time being, my recommendation is that you explore other alternative.  I realize this effects all TMobile users and all the game developers who want to reach them. Mogade has largely been on auto-pilot for some time and that's been great for everyone. But with limited time on my end the ongoing disappointment of Windows Phone, I think it's time I considered grandfathering the service..

Karl

[Irzaud Hoosein]

Oh, that's too bad.  Thanks for all the help though.