Is Model-Glue suitible for a shared hosting environment?

[Preserved Killick]

I've used Model-Glue 2 with success on private and VPS servers. No
issues at at all.

For a new project, which will likely remain on a shared hosting
environent at Crystaltech I can't even get the bare MG3 framework
files to load due to timeout issues. Only by using index.cfm?
requesttimeout=600 can I get it to load.

Crystaltech was willing to move the site to a server with a newer
version of JVM (1.6.0_10) with no better performance. I've read that
HMS has similar issues.

So, I ask, is MG realistic for a shared hosting environment?

Are there solutions out there i'm missing? I've tought about trying an
account sometwhere with CF9, but don't look forward to the time
involved with the process of host shopping.

[James Allen]

There are definitely solutions, especially if they have updated Java and
still no joy.

Though I'm not sure if the object instantiation bug was fixed in v10 or a
later one. Worth checking.

There are a number of server setting in the CF administrator that can be
changed to solve timeout issues like that.

The core one is to make sure 'Report Execution Times' is turned off on the
'Debug Output Settings' admin page.

This can be solved for sure.

---
James Allen
E: ja...@jamesallen.name
Blog: http://jamesallen.name
Twitter: @CFJamesAllen (Coldfusion / Web development)
Twitter: @jamesallenuk (General)
Lead developer of http://errrrrrr.com

-----Original Message-----
From: model...@googlegroups.com [mailto:model...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Preserved Killick
Sent: 17 December 2009 15:12
To: model-glue
Subject: [Model-Glue] Is Model-Glue suitible for a shared hosting
environment?

I've used Model-Glue 2 with success on private and VPS servers. No
issues at at all.

For a new project, which will likely remain on a shared hosting
environent at Crystaltech I can't even get the bare MG3 framework
files to load due to timeout issues. Only by using index.cfm?
requesttimeout=600 can I get it to load.

Crystaltech was willing to move the site to a server with a newer
version of JVM (1.6.0_10) with no better performance. I've read that
HMS has similar issues.

So, I ask, is MG realistic for a shared hosting environment?

Are there solutions out there i'm missing? I've tought about trying an
account sometwhere with CF9, but don't look forward to the time
involved with the process of host shopping.

--
Model-Glue Sites:
Home Page: http://www.model-glue.com
Documentation: http://docs.model-glue.com
Bug Tracker: http://bugs.model-glue.com
Blog: http://www.model-glue.com/blog

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[Dan Wilson]

These are good questions and I'm glad you bring them up. Shared Hosting is always problematic for pretty much any application, mostly because any of the other 1000 applications on the server could be hogging more than their fair share of server resources.

Shared Hosting is like the Wild Wild West. There are really no rules governing what happens. If there is a misbehaving application on the server, it affects everyone. Infinite loops, inappropriate caching, bad code, all this stuff is on the server you are on and will cause problems at one time or another. There really isn't much you can do under a shared hosting model.

One option might be to go back t a Virtual Private Server. As you know, a VPS has fractioned server resources and provides boundaries from other applications on the server. This means a runaway application on another VPS will not affect your VPS, even if both VPSs are on the same server. This usually costs a little more than a shared hosting account, but delivers more value because your applications function better from a regulated environment.

I can say there are hundreds of folks running Model Glue 3 on shared hosting. Most likely this is the result of a server misconfiguration, possibly with debugging or server monitoring, or with another application running on the server, overconsuming resources.

Having Report Execution Times turned on will be bloody murder on a CFC based application. Having Memory Tracking on (even if the server monitor is off) can supposedly severely impede an OO based application.

However CrystalTech are good hosts and have been hosting OO based ColdFusion applications for years, so I'm sure they know this. 

DW

--
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Home Page: http://www.model-glue.com
Documentation: http://docs.model-glue.com
Bug Tracker: http://bugs.model-glue.com
Blog: http://www.model-glue.com/blog

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--
“Come to the edge, he said. They said: We are afraid. Come to the edge, he said. They came. He pushed them and they flew.”

Guillaume Apollinaire quotes

[Preserved Killick]

Thanks Guys,

I just got off the phone with CrystalTech, and Report Execution Times
is indeed checked. Unfortunatley I was unable to get them to alter
this setting.

I agree that a VPS would be great, but in this case may not be an
option.

> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Preserved Killick <fonge...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I've used Model-Glue 2 with success on private and VPS servers. No
> > issues at at all.
>
> > For a new project, which will likely remain on a shared hosting
> > environent  at Crystaltech I can't even get the bare MG3 framework
> > files to load due to timeout issues. Only by using index.cfm?
> > requesttimeout=600 can I get it to load.
>
> > Crystaltech was willing to move the site to a server with a newer
> > version of JVM (1.6.0_10) with no better performance.  I've read that
> > HMS has similar issues.
>
> > So, I ask, is MG realistic for a shared hosting environment?
>
> > Are there solutions out there i'm missing? I've tought about trying an
> > account sometwhere with CF9, but don't look forward to the time
> > involved with the process of host shopping.
>
> > --
> > Model-Glue Sites:
> > Home Page:http://www.model-glue.com
> > Documentation:http://docs.model-glue.com
> > Bug Tracker:http://bugs.model-glue.com
> > Blog:http://www.model-glue.com/blog
>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "model-glue" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to model...@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

> > model-glue+...@googlegroups.com<model-glue%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou­ps.com>

> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/model-glue?hl=en
>
> --
> “Come to the edge, he said. They said: We are afraid. Come to the edge, he
> said. They came. He pushed them and they flew.”
>

> Guillaume Apollinaire quotes- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Dan Wilson]

Crystal Tech runs a production server with Report Execution Times on?  Wow.

Definitely look for another host. No OO based application, or any application that uses any CFCs at all will ever run respectably with this configuration.

DW

[Chuck Savage]

I'm developing my MG app on a shared server at HMS - now called Hosting.com (they bought that company and domain, and use it, though it was HMS like I said that bought Hosting.com).

I have only a little trafic to the site as of yet, just some demo code showing off a linked list component that I created and share on riaforge.  The initial load time is somewhat substantial, but I've had no timeouts.  Once up tho, it runs pretty quick, even when I do a init=true.

[Sean Corfield]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Dan Wilson <sipa...@gmail.com> wrote:

However CrystalTech are good hosts and have been hosting OO based ColdFusion applications for years, so I'm sure they know this. 

I have not had particularly good experiences with CT and I've read reports from others having problems.

I've had pretty good experiences with HMS although service has gone downhill recently and they're pulling out of shared hosting (and their VPS support has not been great). These days my recommendations are:

- Edge Web Hosting (on the higher end)

- Alurium ($7/month entry level)

- Vivio Tech (very good on low- to mid-level - I don't have experience of their higher end stuff yet)

--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
Railo Technologies US -- http://getrailo.com/
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

[John Mason]

I actually manage FusionLink which is another option you can try. We have shared hosting users using MG without any problems and I would be happy to directly help you if you like. We do have a 30 day trial for the shared hosting so you can try things out.

John
ma...@fusionlink.com
twitter: john_mason_

--

[Preserved Killick]

Just a follow up for future searching. The "report execution times"
was elevated to some higher up techs, and they agreed to turn it off.
However, it made no difference. As it stands, the bare framework files
won't load, they timeout every time without the timeout URL appended.
I'll moving to a VPS somewhere.

jeff

On Dec 17, 11:30 am, Dan Wilson <sipac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Crystal Tech runs a production server with Report Execution Times on?  Wow.
>
> Definitely look for another host. No OO based application, or any
> application that uses any CFCs at all will ever run respectably with this
> configuration.
>
> DW
>

> > > > model-glue+...@googlegroups.com<model-glue%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

> > <model-glue%2Bunsubscribe@googlegrou­ps.com>
> > > > For more options, visit this group at
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/model-glue?hl=en
>
> > > --
> > > “Come to the edge, he said. They said: We are afraid. Come to the edge,
> > he
> > > said. They came. He pushed them and they flew.”
>
> > > Guillaume Apollinaire quotes- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > --
> > Model-Glue Sites:
> > Home Page:http://www.model-glue.com
> > Documentation:http://docs.model-glue.com
> > Bug Tracker:http://bugs.model-glue.com
> > Blog:http://www.model-glue.com/blog
>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "model-glue" group.
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> > model-glue+...@googlegroups.com<model-glue%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Rich]

... when I was dealing with this exact issue some 2 years ago they said it was ultimately due to the JVM that the hosting company was using, they were not using JRUN, but instead JRocket? It's been so long I've forgotten, but they (hostmysite.com, I believe) could never resolve the issue and I actually built a test app in both ModelGlue and Mach-II, and neither would run in a shared environment without timing out. VPN was the only solution I could come up with, ahphosting.net if it helps.

Good luck,

Rich

Rich

Rich Leach
Advanced Certified Adobe ColdFusion Developer
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http://www.cfsnap.com
303-913-7338
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AOL AIM: cfsnaprich
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[Dan Wilson]

Keep us posted...  

DW

[Dan Wilson]

By the way, John Mason offered a 30 day trial of their shared hosting offering:

I actually manage FusionLink which is another option you can try. We have shared hosting users using MG without any problems and I would be happy to directly help you if you like. We do have a 30 day trial for the shared hosting so you can try things out.

He is a Model Glue contributor so I'd definitely trust his abilities and knowledge on successfully hosting Model-Glue projects.

DW

[Chris Blackwell]

also if you're not tied to any of the adobe cf specific features try out railo on your vps. it's much lighter and can be quicker, especially in situations where system resources are limited, like a vps.

chris