Traffic Ticket
Jerry
so, is there anything that I should expect? Any tips? I was pulled over
and cited this morning for failure to stop at a stop sign. The problem
is that I stopped at that sign.
--
Jerry
RC
can you prove it? Your word against theirs
--
Robert Cartwright sup...@ipHouse.net
Welcome Home
The Heineken Uncertainty Principle:
You can never be sure how many beers you had last night.
Scott
I haven't fought a ticket in Bloomington, but I have fought tickets
in Hennepin county. Typically if it is your first offense, or at least
your first offense in a long while, they will more than likely give
you a break and toss the ticket, if you have a convincing reason
for your offense.
If you have the time, it's probably worth your while to contest it.
More often than not, it never makes it to court. A referee
is the one who usually talks to you and makes the decision to
toss the ticket or send it to court.
- Scott Smith: sc...@sludgereport.org
Sludge Report: http://www.sludgereport.org
John
<sludge...@gmail.com> wrote:
Every time I throw away a newspaper clipping I will see weeks later how
foolish is was to toss the clipping out. The story was in the Strib
metro section and it told what to do to up your odds the ticket would
be scotched. I just plain can't remember. Darn.
JC
Copied below may be the article you referred to.
I have a folder on my computer entitled "Misc. Data" where I file
these type of things away for future reference - such as now.
Dollars & Sense: Ticket to higher rates?
John Ewoldt, Star Tribune
August 19, 2004 JE0819
A few weeks ago, I got out of a speeding ticket. Sort of. I was going
12 miles per hour over the limit on the 3rd Avenue bridge in downtown
Minneapolis. Guilty as charged.
Maybe you, too, were nabbed in the ticketing spree last month. More
than 21,000 drivers were ticketed during a statewide effort to target
speeders July 1-18. Minneapolis and St. Paul police issued 4,084
tickets during the period, said Dennis Smith, a spokesman for the
Minnesota Department of Public Safety.
I was planning to pay the $130 fine no questions asked until I
mentioned to a co-worker that I was worried about my insurance rates
going up. That's when he, a guy with three speeding tickets in the
past five years, mentioned a little-known tool for the little guy
called a "continuance for dismissal."
With a continuance, I could plead guilty to my offense but not have it
go on my record with the state. In effect, my insurance company has no
knowledge of the ticket (unless they read this column) because the
state's records don't show it. No record of my ticket, no increase in
my insurance premium.
I'd never heard of a continuance for dismissal and neither,
apparently, have many others. Kate Fogarty, a court operations
supervisor in Hennepin County District Court, said that only 8 percent
of the 138,295 charges that were contested in Hennepin County hearing
offices in 2003 were granted a continuance, also called a "diversion."
Some think that a continuance is cheating. Steven Tallen, a
prosecuting attorney for the city of Maple Grove and other western
suburbs, says it's unfair to people who don't know enough to ask for
it. Yet some experts say that drivers should see a hearing officer for
almost any petty traffic violation or parking ticket. At a minimum,
the fine may be reduced.
Seeing a hearing officer usually requires no more than going to the
address listed on the back of the ticket or calling for information.
You can wait in line (sometimes for more than an hour) or possibly
make an appointment at a future time. Hearing officers have been given
specific guidelines from city prosecutors so citizens with disputes on
minor traffic violations don't clog up the courts.
If this sounds elitist, it isn't. Anyone can ask to see a hearing
officer. Tallen said he reminds defense lawyers that their clients
could sometimes do as well by talking to a hearing officer about a
speeding ticket as with paying a lawyer. If clients don't like what
the hearing officer says, they can walk away and still hire a lawyer.
Who qualifies?
Not everyone is eligible for a continuance. The man from Alexandria,
Minn., who was clocked at 125 in a 70 mph zone last week? No way.
Generally, to get a continuance, you can't be cited for more than 15
miles above the limit. You also must have a driving record without
violations for one to three years, depending on prosecuting guidelines
in the city in which the ticket is issued. The petty moving violation
should not have involved an accident. No other continuances can be
pending.
However, Jennifer Inz, prosecuting attorney for the city of Eden
Prairie, said that one reason the city rarely allows them is because a
continuance pending in Ramsey County is unlikely to show up in
Hennepin County's records since the counties don't share them.
I took my case to a Minneapolis hearing officer at Hennepin County
Government Center. He looked at my squeaky clean record and gave me
three options: take my case to court and attempt a dismissal, plead
guilty on the spot and he'd reduce the fine to $95, or pay a total of
$130 (the same price as the ticket) and get a "continuance for
dismissal."
To save money on my car insurance, I took the continuance. Considering
that Minneapolis doesn't charge extra for a continuance as some cities
do (Hopkins charges $70), I had nothing to lose. But if I don't stay
"clean" for one year with no moving violations, then the new ticket
and the old one will both be reported to the state.
There's no way of knowing for sure what I might save. I called my
insurance company to ask how much my rates would "theoretically"
increase if I had a ticket. The agent told me that her company doesn't
do hypotheticals, although other companies might. According to a
Progressive Insurance Co. estimate, a married 35-year-old male driver
in Minneapolis with full coverage and a clean record pays about $1,594
annually. With one speeding violation, his rates would increase to
$1,828 annually. Project that out for three years, the average life
span of a ticket at most insurance companies, and the driver would
save $702 over three years by taking the continuance and staying
ticket-free for the year following the continuance.
Wynn Curtiss, a city prosecutor for Hopkins, knows personally the
potential value of a continuance. His wife had a minor car accident
and then got a speeding ticket in Eden Prairie. Their insurance rates
went up about 10 percent, about $600 over three years of premiums.
Every case is different. Some drivers with an excellent, long history
with their insurance company may not see any increase after one
ticket; others may be able to save even more than $700 in three years.
Location matters
Whether you can try for a continuance depends on the city in which the
ticket is issued, not your city of residence. I was lucky to get a
ticket in Minneapolis, which allows its hearing officers to offer
continuances and doesn't charge extra for them. Some cities don't
usually allow them at all, such as Eden Prairie, Richfield, New
Brighton, Mounds View, North Oaks and Little Canada. Inz doesn't
normally offer continuances on petty misdemeanor moving violations
such as speeding. Occasionally she might if it's a life-or-death
reason for the violation, she said.
The prosecuting attorney for each city sets the guidelines for
accepting or rejecting continuances. In Minneapolis, the hearing
officer looks for a clean driving record in the past two years, said
Mary Ellen Heng, assistant city attorney. In St. Paul, you must have
had no violations for the past year, said Therese Skarda, deputy of
the criminal division for the city of St. Paul.
Regardless of the parameters, a continuance for dismissal is not
retroactive. If you paid for a speeding ticket yesterday, you can't go
in today and ask for a continuance. You must make arrangements to talk
to a hearing officer within the grace period after the ticket is
issued, usually 21 days.
Other petty misdemeanor moving violations may qualify for a
continuance, such as "no right turn on red" or an illegal lane change
without an accident, but others may be rejected. Each city prosecutor
has a different set of standards. In some St. Paul suburbs, failure to
yield in a crosswalk is not eligible. In Minneapolis, failure to yield
to an emergency vehicle or having no insurance at the time of an
accident may not score a continuance with hearing officers.
The biggest advantage of diversions isn't the cost savings -- it's
potentially life-saving. Minneapolis-based defense attorney Dave
Roston says that in offering a continuance, the city is hoping that in
a year's time, the offender will change his speeding habits and become
a safer driver. Speeding is the most commonly reported contributing
factor in fatal crashes, so if it takes a continuance to slow people
down and make the roads safer, it's a good thing.
John Ewoldt may be contacted at jew...@startribune.com, at
612-673-7633 or by sending a fax to 612-673-4359. His articles are
online at www.startribune.com/dollars. You can also read his new "Word
of Mouth" every Saturday in Variety, featuring shopping bargains,
consumer trends, products of superior quality and answers to readers'
questions.
Jerry
> Jerry <jabeach@dont_spam_me_citlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Has anyone here fought a traffic ticket from the city of Bloomington? If
>>so, is there anything that I should expect? Any tips? I was pulled over
>>and cited this morning for failure to stop at a stop sign. The problem
>>is that I stopped at that sign.
>
>
> can you prove it? Your word against theirs
>
I hear ya. Guilty until proven innocent. I love democracy :-)
I have no witnesses but perhaps worst case scenario is I can follow the
article that JC posted and ask for a continuance for dismissal. I'll
have to see if I can talk to the prosecutor (or whom ever I can speak to
before seeing the judge) and find out how they plan to pursue.
--
Jerry
P T
the Hennepin County government center in downtown Mpls and did the
hearing officer routine.
I was speeding, about 45 in a 30. I didn't have much of an excuse. Said
I didn't think I was speeding, and how could the cop have gotten me on
radar, since he was parked on a side street? The hearing guy pointed out
that it said "laser" on the ticket. Oh well. Any way he offered to cut
it down 50 bucks or so. I countered, how about the full amount, and it
stays off my record. No can do, he said. Richfield won't let me.
The down side is that it wasted a LOT of time to do this. It seems like
I sat in the office WAY over an hour waiting for my turn, plus commuting
time. I was out of work at the time, so it was no big deal. Most of the
other people there also looked like they had nothing better to do than
fight parking tickets.
They got me coming down a hill. A year later it happened again. About 35
years earlier, my dad warned me that cops sit at the bottom of hills.
When I told him about the tickets, he had very little sympathy :-\
Mike H
news:1fo351tqpsu0h3n8b...@4ax.com:
...
>>Every time I throw away a newspaper clipping I will see weeks later
>>how foolish is was to toss the clipping out. The story was in the
>>Strib metro section and it told what to do to up your odds the ticket
>>would be scotched. I just plain can't remember. Darn.
...
> Dollars & Sense: Ticket to higher rates?
> John Ewoldt, Star Tribune
> August 19, 2004 JE0819
...
>
> Some think that a continuance is cheating. Steven Tallen, a
> prosecuting attorney for the city of Maple Grove and other western
> suburbs, says it's unfair to people who don't know enough to ask for
> it.
I love that coming from a prosecuting attourney... As though it's like
guessing Rumplestiltskins name. I can just picture Steven sitting in
court just hoping and praying that the next defendant doesn't use the
"continuance for dismissal" card before he has a chance to put them away.
;-)
In Ramsey county I received a ticket for parking in a snow emergency route
an spoke with a hearing officer to get the ticket dismissed. Um, it was
fall when the cop put the ticket on my car. No snow emergency in
effect... yet.
In Dakota County I ended up speaking with the procecutor on the day of
court prior to seeing the judge. This was a ticket for driving without a
valid license. A license that was mysteriously suspended by MNDOT as I
hadn't properly changed my address information with them so I never got
the notice from them. In this case I received a continuance for dismissal
from the procecutor.
It seems that for people that don't regularly get involved in the legal
system, it's a little like visiting a restaurant you've never been to
before. Where it's not obvious if you should wait to be seated or just go
ahead and sit down. Without having a lawyer in tow, it's unlikely just
any old schmoe walking into court is really going to know what all their
options are.
In the case in Dakota County, the court clerk had called out that any
people that want to speak to the assistant DA should let the clerk know so
that they could let the Assistant DA know. I saw all these people talking
to him, but didn't know what for. When I saw some kids in school uniform,
busted for a right off school property I guess, talking and then signing
some papers, then walking out, I figured out that they were cutting deals.
Eventually the Assistant DA called my name and went over things with me,
made me the offer of paying court costs to get the continuance (not
suprisingly the same amount as the ticket cost) due to my here to for
clean record.
Somehow I think I got lucky that this attorney was taking care of the easy
ones on his own. I get the feeling that other county or city
representatives would prefer you just didn't find out about all your
options.
Glenn
. . .
>
> They got me coming down a hill. A year later it happened again. About 35
> years earlier, my dad warned me that cops sit at the bottom of hills.
> When I told him about the tickets, he had very little sympathy :-\
>
part time deputy for Olmsted county, we were specifically
prohibited from sitting at the bottom of a hill or at any other
location where it would be typical for someone to be over the
enforced limit. I don't suppose it was because we were such nice
fellows, but because the judges dismissed such tickets.
Wayne Marsh
> They got me coming down a hill. A year later it happened again.
Where is there a hill in Richfield? The only noticeable gradients I can
think of are 66th St. west of Penn, and Penn north of 66th.
Wayne Marsh Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
wayne...@mac.com
John
It that a sign of early onset Alzheimer's.
In article <1fo351tqpsu0h3n8b...@4ax.com>, JC
Daniel L. Snyder
John <jwfe...@ties2.net> wrote:
> Yes, that is the article. I said several weeks. Wow was I off in time.
> It that a sign of early onset Alzheimer's.
No it is not. But forgetting to use question marks is a definite sign!
(Just joking - couldn't resist)