Candle Light Vigil for Peace is Tonight
Jack Ferman
16th at 7 pm. If you are so inclined light a candle outdoors at 7 pm.
The larger gatherings will be at Lake Harriet, the Peace Gardens,
Powderhorn Park, Northrup Mall, and the bridges across the Mississippi.
After it is all over, MoveOn will make available digital pictures sent in
from around the world. See www.globalvigil.org.
S. Smith
It was a great night out on the Stone Arch bridge in Minneapolis.
Great to meet and talk to so many others wishing for peace.
May peace prevail.
S. Smith
>Great! Once we disarm Saddam, the Iraqi people will know peace. See you
>there.
You're going to Iraq?
I can't say you'll be missed here.
Hopefully you'll be able to help burying the dead and attending
to the wounded.
Best of luck with that.
Eclectic Toy Collector of Minnesota
"S. Smith" <scott...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:7rna7v45uo5sj0glg...@4ax.com...
We had an estimated 600 people walking around Como Lake in St. Paul with
candles last night. I know there were aproximately 20 sites in the metro
area with such gatherings.
S. Smith
There were only a few dozen of us on the Stone Arch bridge
downtown, but it was enough to know that we were a part of
something MUCH bigger going on all over the world.
Jack Ferman
Collector of Minnesota" <ET...@yahoo.com> wrote:
www.globalvigil.org featured a way to search for vigils nearby - all you
had to do was enter your country and for us the zipcode. 55409 drew a
list of all in St Paul & Mpls plus a few 'burbs. I downloaded Thursday
evening and got quite a few more than 20 registered vigils. There were
many unregistered vigils, I suspect. We had 23 people in front of our
neighborhood church and 4 persons read about ours on the web site's
listing and came to join us. We were in south Mpls, they were from St
Paul in the Macalester area, I think.
The vigil web site now has a large number of pictures posted from many
countries. I hope you Como guys took a digital pic and can send it in.
They want the pics to be 300 x 200 pixels. I spent way into last night
downloading pics and plan to make an iMovie of the stills. I'll be using
longitude to layout the pic timeline. If feasible (size wise) I might
make a VCD
Michael Schneider
> <ET...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >"S. Smith" <scott...@visi.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >
> >We had an estimated 600 people walking around Como Lake in St. Paul with
> >candles last night. I know there were aproximately 20 sites in the metro
> >area with such gatherings.
Meanwhile, I was watching some video on the History Channel: In a scene
very reminiscent of Nazi death-camp imagery, the bloated, blackened bodies
of hundreds of Kurds (including many infants) were being tossed onto a
truck, the victims of one of Saddam Hussein's many poison-gas experiments.
> There were only a few dozen of us on the Stone Arch bridge
> downtown, but it was enough to know that we were a part of
> something MUCH bigger going on all over the world.
He's killed over a million people in twenty years, and you persons are the
most worthless, clueless bastards on earth.
--
Reply to mike1@@@usfamily.net sans two @@, or your reply won't reach me.
Liberty for Dummies: http://home.mn.rr.com/meadowbrookhome/z/dummies.htm
If we have to have an incoherent, anti-Western "peace" movement, then
women showing off their hooters in support of a culture that would stone
them to death for showing off their ankles is about as good as it gets.
-- Mark Steyn
John Ferman
> Schneider) wrote:
>
> >S. Smith <scott...@visi.com> wrote:
> >> <ET...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >"S. Smith" <scott...@visi.com> wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> May peace prevail.
> >> >
> >> >We had an estimated 600 people walking around Como Lake in St. Paul with
> >> >candles last night. I know there were aproximately 20 sites in the metro
> >> >area with such gatherings.
> >
> >
> >Meanwhile, I was watching some video on the History Channel: In a scene
> >very reminiscent of Nazi death-camp imagery, the bloated, blackened bodies
> >of hundreds of Kurds (including many infants) were being tossed onto a
> >truck, the victims of one of Saddam Hussein's many poison-gas experiments.
> >
> >
> >> There were only a few dozen of us on the Stone Arch bridge
> >> downtown, but it was enough to know that we were a part of
> >> something MUCH bigger going on all over the world.
> >
> >
> >He's killed over a million people in twenty years, and you persons are the
> >most worthless, clueless bastards on earth.
>
choose. Now Schneider has a reputation on this site so his remarks
would be expected. To label others as 'worthless, clueless bastards'
labels Schneider again. Were Schneider to have anything pertinent to
say, his reputation drowns it out.
Bill Seurer
> I am always in the forefront of endorsing others to hold the views they
> choose. Now Schneider has a reputation on this site so his remarks
> would be expected. To label others as 'worthless, clueless bastards'
> labels Schneider again. Were Schneider to have anything pertinent to
> say, his reputation drowns it out.
If he really believed in his "liberty trumps all" mantra he'd be
completely against war. War is the ultimate elimination of liberty.
Bert Hyman
> War is the ultimate elimination of liberty.
Really? Every war, Every time, no exceptions?
--
Bert Hyman | St. Paul, MN | be...@visi.com
Bill Seurer
> Bi...@seurer.net (Bill Seurer) wrote in news:3e775...@news3.prserv.net:
>
>>War is the ultimate elimination of liberty.
>
> Really? Every war, Every time, no exceptions?
For Mike it is or would be if he truly believed in what he says he does.
Unless said war involved the government initiating no force which
would make it a rather odd war, no?
Mike:
> I say, "do not initiate force upon me". That is the "end".
>
> If all governments, by essence, initiate force, then I am opposed to
>all of them in principle, and if that makes me an "anarchist", well
>that's
>merely a word applied by others who are unable to understand the
>hypocrisy
>of their own positions.
Mike:
> When examined under harsh logic, "proper statism" just doesn't >measure
>up, and is, in the end, fundimentally incompatible with individualism >and
>liberty. The initiation of force is always immoral, and a "government"
>which doesn't do that isn't really "governing" or "ruling", so the >*word*
>"government" wouldn't really be appropriate to describe a voluntary
>cooperative. (To accept "limited" initation of force is to embrace bald
>hypocrisy.)
"The initiation of force is always immoral". Can't be much clearer on
his position than that.
Mike:
>> He believes that all forms of
>> government are simply varying degrees of tyranny
>It is not a belief; it is a demonstrable fact. If you would object, >point
>to a single instance of government in recorded history which did not
>initiate force.
Bert Hyman
> Bert Hyman wrote:
>> Bi...@seurer.net (Bill Seurer) wrote in
>> news:3e775...@news3.prserv.net:
>>
>>>War is the ultimate elimination of liberty.
>>
>> Really? Every war, Every time, no exceptions?
>
> For Mike it is or would be if he truly believed in what he says he
> does.
> Unless said war involved the government initiating no force which
> would make it a rather odd war, no?
Well, I don't know who "Mike" is, and you were the one who just made
the statement to which I referred.
I don't know how someone can confuse defense with "initiating force".
Was our war with Japan and Germany "aggression"? Was it the "ultimate
elimination of liberty"?
Mike Schneider
<max_...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:58:40 -0600, yehaw...@usfamily.net (Michael
> Schneider) wrote:
>
> >He's killed over a million people in twenty years, and you persons are the
> >most worthless, clueless bastards on earth.
>
> Please. If we were so concerned about the Kurds, we should have intervened
> when it happened.
Yes, "we" should -- and I have little doubt that *your* support would
have been forthcoming, or not, based solely upon whether or not a
Democrat or a Republican was President at the time.
> The last thing the U. S. is worried about is the plight of the Kurds.
> For Bush to use them as one of his reasons to attack is enough to make
> one vomit.
The most legitimate of all reasons to overthrow a tyrant does not
become illegitimate if the liberator wears a tarnished star.
It's immediately obvious to me that you care about the sufferings of
other people even less than Bush.
Bill Seurer
> Well, I don't know who "Mike" is
Read back a few postings.
Mike Schneider
<Bi...@seurer.net> wrote:
War is the ultimate elimination of liberty.
"War", in your usage, it just a context-free one-word cliche employed
for the express purpose of logic-reduction so as to not hurt one's
brain too badly.
"War", in the context of defensive force, is in fact *necessary* for
liberty: History does not record a single instance of liberty ever
talking its way out from under a tyranny. A person who does not fight
will come to endure all the evil that he is willing to put up with
because he presents no "opportunity cost" to the ambitions of evil
people.
Mike Schneider
> [Schneider cited]
> > "The initiation of force is always immoral".
>
> Can't be much clearer on his position than that.
That's really nice, dahlink; it shows that you have one eye open.
Now pay attention: Nobody's initiating force in Iraq except Saddam.
Bill Seurer
> History does not record a single instance of liberty ever
> talking its way out from under a tyranny.
India and the British Empire.
Bill Seurer
> The most legitimate of all reasons to overthrow a tyrant does not
> become illegitimate if the liberator wears a tarnished star.
So it's OK for our tyrannical government to overthrow their tyrannical
government and impose a new tyrannical government on them? Or do you
actually recognize that some forms of government ARE better than others
despite what you have said here before?
S. Smith
>Yes! At least .00485% of the world's population are protesting the
>humanitarian and security action (which you might call 'war') by the
>American liberators. You are validated, Smith.
I see your numbers are as skewed as your perspective.
What a surprise.
John Ferman
else. The pictures from around the world have been rolling in and a
little while ago I saw a pic of the gathering at the Lake Harriet
bandshell. The URL is www.globalvigil,org and it morphs to moveon.
Bill Seurer
> Looks like my candle light vigil thread has morphed into something
> else.
EVERY thread seems to morph into either "those anti-war commie
unamerican scum" or "those warmongering idiotic oil grubbers" or
something similar these days.
S. Smith
Apparently people have strong opinions on the subject of war
and peace. Go figure. ;)
Bill Seurer
Well yeah, but when threads that start out "Thanks for porviding that
free info!" morph immediately into "That's because he's a commie,
Saddaam loving, anti-American peacenik" it's gotten out of hand.
Jack Ferman
Well, of course, the vigils are over, the statements made, and we into a
new circumstance.
I would have been much happier about the Bush invasion had we been
guaranteed the troops would be escoting hordes of inspectors to every nook
and cranny of Iraq. The idea of us taking Saddam out is too easy for him.
After he and his henchmen & followers are thoroughly disarmed and left
with only fists to fight with, I would think his life would not be worth a
plugged nickel. Do you remember from your history books what the Italian
people did with Musselini - he was hung by the heels from a lamp post.
Let us hope our bombing does not take all of Iraqs light posts down - the
Iraqis might find them useful after the disarming.
TH
Good humour
"Jack Ferman" <ferm...@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
news:ferma001-160...@x134-84-254-44.dialup.umn.edu...
Spartakus
> S. Smith <scott...@visi.com> wrote:
> > <ET...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >"S. Smith" <scott...@visi.com> wrote in message
> > >We had an estimated 600 people walking around Como Lake
> > >in St. Paul with candles last night. I know there were
> > >aproximately 20 sites in the metro area with such
> > >gatherings.
> Meanwhile, I was watching some video on the History Channel:
> In a scene very reminiscent of Nazi death-camp imagery, the
> bloated, blackened bodies of hundreds of Kurds (including
> many infants) were being tossed onto a truck, the victims
> of one of Saddam Hussein's many poison-gas experiments.
I don't suppose you remember George Herbert Walker Bush describing
Saddam Hussein as "a man we can do business with", do you?
Question: Who sold him anthrax and other materials to make chemo/bio
weapons?
Answer: The good old U.S., with the approval of then-President Ronald
Reagan.
> > There were only a few dozen of us on the Stone Arch bridge
> > downtown, but it was enough to know that we were a part of
> > something MUCH bigger going on all over the world.
> He's killed over a million people in twenty years, and you
> persons are the most worthless, clueless bastards on earth.
Iraq's military strength is but a shadow of what it once was; they
have no capacity for producting WMD; they had no part in the 9/11
attacks; and Hussein's ambitions have been effectively thwarted by the
sanctions we have in place.
He's 65 - he has to go sometime, ferchrissakes!
Invading Iraq is unnecessary, unjustified, crazy, irrational and
immoral. Virtually the entire world feels the way - maybe you believe
that most of the world is made up of worthless, clueless bastards. If
so, you would be including
Most Democrats
Many Republicans
Many veterans
The Roman Catholic Church
20 or so Protestant denominations
Many labor unions, including the AFL-CIO
(that made you flinch, didn't it???)
Virtually the entire Muslim community
Most of the world's governments
Virtually everybody else in the world
in your assessment. Plus, you'd have to include the peace weenie who
said this:
"You've got to reach out to the other person. You've
got to convince them that long-term friendship should
trump short-term adversity."
And this:
"To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition,
turning the whole Arab world against us, and make a
broken tyrant into a latter-day Arab hero."
It's true, Mike - George W. Bush's FATHER is on record as being
against invading Iraq. The quotations are from George Herbert Walker
Bush, 41st President of the United States and architect of the
coalition that kicked Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait. Here are the
URLS:
Bert Hyman
news:6ed74dfa.03032...@posting.google.com:
> Question: Who sold him anthrax and other materials to make
> chemo/bio weapons?
Question: How many other countries bought anthrax from the same
source for legitimate medical research and never made weapons with
it?
Bill Seurer
> spar...@my-deja.com (Spartakus) wrote in
> news:6ed74dfa.03032...@posting.google.com:
>
>>Question: Who sold him anthrax and other materials to make
>>chemo/bio weapons?
>
> Question: How many other countries bought anthrax from the same
> source for legitimate medical research and never made weapons with
> it?
Anthrax is native to the Middle East, too. And as for chemical warfare
stuff all it takes is early twentieth century tech to do that.
Still, back then he was a Good Guy so it would have been OK to sell him
whatever. The Soviets were the bad guys then and anyone against them
(or even not with them) was our friend. Which of course begs the
question of how Iraq ended up mostly with Soviet military equipment...
Terry Cross
There is some difference between Agricultural anthrax and military
anthrax. The US sold military grade to Iraq. We also taught them how
to make the stuff into a fine air-borne powder and build it into
warheads -- technology developed with good ol' US tax dollars.
In addition, the US provided satellite spotting data so Saddham could
"make war" on the Kurds in 1982. You know who was in charge of that?
Donald H. Rumsfeld.
The real question is, how many Americans would have authorized that
sale, had we known about it at the time? How many Americans would
support the development of Bioweapons in the first place?
TCross
John Ferman
<be...@visi.com> wrote:
> spar...@my-deja.com (Spartakus) wrote in
> news:6ed74dfa.03032...@posting.google.com:
>
> > Question: Who sold him anthrax and other materials to make
> > chemo/bio weapons?
>
> Question: How many other countries bought anthrax from the same
> source for legitimate medical research and never made weapons with
> it?
It is important to differentiate this point. Anthrax is not just one
organism but a family of organisms. The strain that affect animals is
not the same as the strain that harms humans via the respiratory tract.
So research might proceed on antidotes for animals through a spectrum
of research to that for enhancing the efficiency of the killer anthrax.
Anyone who ever grown anything in a Petri dish realizes that cells of
growing organisms like to clump (for serums this is good) but to make
the cells capable of being air borne they must be prevented from
clumping. Did anyone catch the expert interview on KNOW during the
anthrax scare in 2001? It was told how microscopic examination of the
anthrax powders focusses on the dispersant - in this way the inside
experts (those who do the research and read the technical papers
published in scientific journals and attend professional conferences
and seminars) can zero in on who might be the most likely source of the
powders. It was said the dispersant was not the one that Iraq was
known to use, but that was 10 year old understanding so there was no
reason to doubt that Iraq might have shifted to other dispersants. The
interesting thing is that since that interview not another word has
been heard on that part of the subject.
Terry Cross
If you can put this conquest of Iraq "in the context of defensive
force," you are just as crack-pated as the Son of George. The US has
not fought a defensive war since 1776, but you use your private chat
group to crap all over that one.
Your intellectual consistency is as evident as ever. A war-mongering
libertarian. What will they think up next.
TCross
Bert Hyman
(Terry Cross) wrote:
> Bill Seurer <Bi...@seurer.net> wrote in message
> news:<3e7b6...@news3.prserv.net>...
>> Bert Hyman wrote:
>> > spar...@my-deja.com (Spartakus) wrote in
>> > news:6ed74dfa.03032...@posting.google.com:
>> >
>> >>Question: Who sold him anthrax and other materials to make
>> >>chemo/bio weapons?
>> >
>> > Question: How many other countries bought anthrax from the same
>> > source for legitimate medical research and never made weapons with
>> > it?
>>
>> Anthrax is native to the Middle East, too. And as for chemical warfare
>> stuff all it takes is early twentieth century tech to do that.
>>
>> Still, back then he was a Good Guy so it would have been OK to sell him
>> whatever. The Soviets were the bad guys then and anyone against them
>> (or even not with them) was our friend. Which of course begs the
>> question of how Iraq ended up mostly with Soviet military equipment...
>
> There is some difference between Agricultural anthrax and military
> anthrax. The US sold military grade to Iraq. ...
Hmmm?
They bought their stuff from the American Type Culture Collection, a
supplier of standard products for medical research.
S Sheldon
"Bert Hyman" <be...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9345B543CC6...@209.98.13.60...
What Bert forgets to mention is that in order for ATCC to ship something
like this, they would have to have had approval from the Federal Government.
More info here:
http://byrd.senate.gov/byrd_issues/byrd_iraqi_bioweapons/byrd_sept262002/byr
d_sept262002.html
The men who authorized these shipments should be tried for treason.
Terry Cross
There is no mention of "Iraq" or "Anthrax" on that page. As the man
says, why buy it from the US when it grows free in the Middle East?
You are kidding, of course.
TCross
Terry Cross
Trash that man's philosophy certificate and send him home. -- unless
he can show photographs of cities in the US bombed by Iraq.
Oh yeah -- and a picture of Iraqi soldiers marching down US streets.
I'd like to see that one, too.
You shouldn't have had that operation, Mike. You turned into a
pom-pom girl for George Bush when you were under the knife.
TCross
Michael Schneider
<drivel>
Hey, punk: Are you still shilling for Christian Scientology "auditor" and
reprehensible Holocaust revisionist whore Carol Valentine and her
despicable glass-eyed islamofascist stormtrooper pal "X-98"? ...or are
you some *other* worthless, lying puke also named Terry Cross?
<rummage through Google>
Yep; yer the one.
--
Reply to mike1@@@usfamily.net sans two @@, or your reply won't reach me.
Liberty for Dummies: http://home.mn.rr.com/meadowbrookhome/z/dummies.htm
If we have to have an incoherent, anti-Western "peace" movement, then
women showing off their hooters in support of a culture that would stone
them to death for showing off their ankles is about as good as it gets.
-- Mark Steyn
Michael Schneider
> The US sold military grade to Iraq.
Gee, what a surprise: No credible cites from the lying punk supporter of
islamofascist zealotry and holocaust-denial. And don't try to deny that
either, or I'll have to slap up a number of your original submissions to
American_Liberty to prove the point.
You're a *scumbag*, Cross. Disappear.
Michael Schneider
> > They bought their stuff from the American Type Culture Collection, a
> > supplier of standard products for medical research.
> >
> > http://www.atcc.org/
>
> What Bert forgets to mention is that in order for ATCC to ship something
> like this, they would have to have had approval from the Federal Government.
>
> More info here:
> http://byrd.senate.gov/byrd_issues/byrd_iraqi_bioweapons/byrd_sept262002/byr
> d_sept262002.html
>
> The men who authorized these shipments should be tried for treason.
The URL above does not reveal or link to any of the original paperwork, so
while the phrase "the government of Iraq" is repeated endlessly, you can't
be sure that the destination on any requisition form was so worded.
Most likely scenerio: Saddam Hussein's govenrment, being the sneaky bunch
it is, pursued the most plausible method they could contrive to get their
hands on this stuff, and fronted a hospital or other ostensibly legitimate
health-research organization as the buyer, for the purposes of developing
vaccines and what-not. Somewhere, in the vast bowels of beaurocracy,
somebody rubber-stamped a form which looked pretty much like a hundred
others he slogged through in an eight-hour day.
But your demand for treason trials is interesting. Should "protestors" who
break into military bases with the express intent of vandalizing
million-dollar equipment also be tried for treason?
Terry Cross
> tcro...@yahoo.com (Terry Cross) wrote:
>
> <drivel>
>
>
> Hey, punk: Are you still shilling for Christian Scientology "auditor" and
> reprehensible Holocaust revisionist whore Carol Valentine and her
> despicable glass-eyed islamofascist stormtrooper pal "X-98"? ...or are
> you some *other* worthless, lying puke also named Terry Cross?
Always appreciate it when a philosopher speaks his mind, openly and
honestly. So much warmth, so much humanity.
TCross
S Sheldon
from the Republican party.
No other explanation could be nearly as plausible given years of "Vince
Foster was murdered! Dan Burton shot a watermelon and proved it!" posts...
to this gem...
Sheesh
"Michael Schneider" <yehaw...@usfamily.net> wrote in message
news:yehawconan-22...@64.212.140.81...
Terry Cross
>
> > The US sold military grade to Iraq.
>
>
> Gee, what a surprise: No credible cites from the lying punk supporter of
> islamofascist zealotry and holocaust-denial. And don't try to deny that
> either, or I'll have to slap up a number of your original submissions to
> American_Liberty to prove the point.
>
> You're a *scumbag*, Cross. Disappear.
There are enough "credible cites" on this thread that it is not
necessary for me to repeat them. If you cared, you would find them.
But there you are in your little efficiency suite in MN, dead to
humanity in a nation that is dead to the world, hollering Spiro
Agnew-isms to drown the still small voice of truth.
And it is not just my voice, but tens of millions who realize this
nation is not, was not, and never should be engaged in conquest. The
trail from republic to empire has already been blazed, paved and
washed with blood by Rome, 2,000 years ago. It is not necessary for
the United States to repeat the experiment.
It is a sad thing that, as wrong as the Soviet Union was about
everything else, they were right about America: The USSR was the one
force standing between the US and its global empire. Now they are
gone, and here we come.
Can you beat that for irony?
TCross
Michael Schneider
<use...@sodablue.org> wrote:
> I am more convinced...
Convi[ction] requires rational thought. You are incapable of this.
Rather, you hold prejudices typical of ignorant feudal peasants.
> than ever that Michael Schneider receives a paycheck
> from the Republican party.
Why yes: They should pay me to proclaim that George Bush Jr. is a
medicated dolt whose only redeeming virtue is that he entertains me by
making you squirm.
Michael Schneider
So anyway, Terry, are you still posting to the notorious liar, murder
conspirator and all-around psycho Islamonazi fruitcake "Andrew Koresh
X98"'s Yahoogroup? Is Carol Valentine still cackling about Zionist and
Masonic entities?
Enquiring minds wanted to know, so I tried ducking in today, but it's
members-only now. Gee, and I thought you guys were trying to get the word
out....
Michael Schneider
Oh yeah, I almost forget: It was no more than two years ago that you made
a spectacular ass of yourself buying the "Moon Landing Hoax" story, if
only for a moment before furiously backpeddling to save face in front of
Moffett.
Want me to refresh your memory? No....don't ask. I have better things to
do than interrupt the bored lives of Minnesota communists with minor
historical trivia which they'll ignore anyway if they think it'll be in
their best interest to do the nasty under the sheets with Islamonazi symps
for some utilitarian pragmatic reason or other.
Bert Hyman
news:45bdaa80.03032...@posting.google.com:
>>
>> They bought their stuff from the American Type Culture Collection,
>> a supplier of standard products for medical research.
>>
>> http://www.atcc.org/
>
> There is no mention of "Iraq" or "Anthrax" on that page.
Why would you expect there to be such?
> As the man says, why buy it from the US when it grows free in the
> Middle East?
The stuff you dig out of the ground is most likely not immediatly
suitable for research use.
>
> You are kidding, of course.
What makes you think that?
Terry Cross
> tcro...@yahoo.com (Terry Cross) wrote:
>
>
> Oh yeah, I almost forget: It was no more than two years ago that you made
> a spectacular ass of yourself buying the "Moon Landing Hoax" story, if
> only for a moment before furiously backpeddling to save face in front of
> Moffett.
eh?
> Want me to refresh your memory?
I think I should refresh yours:
Your group -- all flying together and mugging the dissidents, as usual
-- was working on the premise that anyone who disagreed with the
official story was crazy.
I had mistaken your group for people interested in a) liberty, and b)
philosophy. In that spirit, thinking it to be a forum in which free
expression was welcomed, I freely stated the philosophical position
that there was no scientific proof that the moon landing took place.
There is no scientific test whereby the average citizen could verify
it, so it was simply a matter of opinion -- or a choice of opinion
authorities.
You don't have to go into solipsism to take that view. With an
infinitely rich government with an active Psyops program working
through the compliant news media, it is not possible to confirm most
of the events seen on TV. So toss a coin -- what do you choose to
believe?
Boy was I wrong about your group. No dissidents, no liberty, and no
philosophy. But you demonstrate the same thing on Usenet, and even
right here in this thread. There is no excuse for your abuse -- it is
simply the mark of a man who cannot tolerate -- and does not consider
-- contrary opinions.
Consequently, Mike, you garner no listeners except those of like mind.
By the time you have boxed people's ears, they do not want to listen
to you -- even if you had something worth while to say.
And if you go ballistic on every dissenting statement, you will NOT
have anything worth saying. Your opinions will be all inbred, always
intercoursing with their sisters and first cousins. Bad for
epistemological genetics.
> No....don't ask. I have better things to
> do than interrupt the bored lives of Minnesota communists ...
There you go again. I think you should work on that, buddy.
TCross
Terry Cross
> In article <Qknfa.2$vx...@news02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net>, "S Sheldon"
> <use...@sodablue.org> wrote:
>
> > I am more convinced...
>
>
> Convi[ction] requires rational thought.
Conviction merely means that a person is "won over" by an idea. It
does not say how it happened.
> You are incapable of this.
> Rather, you hold prejudices typical of ignorant feudal peasants.
Still trying to convince people of your superior intellect with insult
and invective, Mike? I have warned you, it does not work. Yea, it
doth bring forth the opposite. Count your disciples from this one
thread, or the last ten threads, and you might understand.
TCross
S Sheldon
"Terry Cross" <tcro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:45bdaa80.0303...@posting.google.com...
> yehaw...@usfamily.net (Michael Schneider) wrote in message
news:<yehawconan-22...@64.212.140.81>...
> > tcro...@yahoo.com (Terry Cross) wrote:
> >
> > > The US sold military grade to Iraq.
> >
> >
>
> There are enough "credible cites" on this thread that it is not
> necessary for me to repeat them. If you cared, you would find them.
Here's the Senate report from 1994...
http://www.chronicillnet.org/PGWS/tuite/chembio.html
This is under the Gulf War Syndrome section of the website, there is other
supporting evidence.
BTW, if you aren't aware of Michael Schneider's history... He's a paid shill
for the Republican party, much like Matt Drudge.
S Sheldon
> In article <Qknfa.2$vx...@news02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net>, "S Sheldon"
> <use...@sodablue.org> wrote:
>
> > I am more convinced...
>
>
> Convi[ction] requires rational thought. You are incapable of this.
> Rather, you hold prejudices typical of ignorant feudal peasants.
I see. So you aren't really denying it, you are just going to throw
insults?
So how much do they pay you?
Or do you simply receive sexual favors from Drudge as recompense?
Dan Goodman
@news02.roc.ny.frontiernet.net:
Never thought I'd killfile someone for impoliteness to _him_.
Terry Cross
> In article <3e78d...@news3.prserv.net>, Bill Seurer <Bi...@seurer.net> wrote:
>
> > S. Smith wrote:
> > > On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 09:23:09 -0600, Bill Seurer <Bi...@seurer.net> wrote:
> > >>John Ferman wrote:
> > >>EVERY thread seems to morph into either "those anti-war commie
> > >>unamerican scum" or "those warmongering idiotic oil grubbers" or
> > >>something similar these days.
> > >
> > > Apparently people have strong opinions on the subject of war
> > > and peace. Go figure. ;)
> >
> > Well yeah, but when threads that start out "Thanks for porviding that
> > free info!" morph immediately into "That's because he's a commie,
> > Saddaam loving, anti-American peacenik" it's gotten out of hand.
>
> Well, of course, the vigils are over, the statements made, and we into a
> new circumstance.
> I would have been much happier about the Bush invasion had we been
> guaranteed the troops would be escoting hordes of inspectors to every nook
> and cranny of Iraq. The idea of us taking Saddam out is too easy for him.
> After he and his henchmen & followers are thoroughly disarmed and left
> with only fists to fight with, I would think his life would not be worth a
> plugged nickel. Do you remember from your history books what the Italian
> people did with Musselini - he was hung by the heels from a lamp post.
> Let us hope our bombing does not take all of Iraqs light posts down - the
> Iraqis might find them useful after the disarming.
And do you imagine that the American war machine, so eager to spill
Iraqi blood for all these years, has told the truth about Saddam, life
in Iraqi society, etc.? Is there no limit to your American Jingoism?
Foolish question. Military "kill em all" Jingoism is always
boundless. Of course Saddam's a monster who saws the heads off young
girls and throws babies out of incubators -- like the lies they told
us to get the OK for Desert Storm.
Oh, you don't remember? Of course not. You didn't find out that the
anonymous girl who told those stories to Congress was a Kuwaiti
princess? Of course not. Jingoism never remembers. It is a
religion. Jingoist faith rides with the throne of Rome, Buckingham
Palace, Washington, or whichever great power is flowering at the
moment. The same Jingoism worshiped Stalin, Mussolini, Mao, Hitler,
Kaiser Bill, Xerxes, and the rest, all up and down this mud-ball's
miserable history.
Just remember, God put political rulers over the people to shepherd
them. Says so right in the Bible, Romans 13. When you look for God,
look to your ruler as a guide. Yup, yup, yup. He will guide you to
the Promised Land.
Just remember that even as Heaven is promised, so is Hell promised
also. And the Jingoist shall see the Promised Land.
TCross
Michael Schneider
effects of bad mushrooms:
> "Terry Cross" <tcro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> BTW, if you aren't aware of Michael Schneider's history...
Oh, he's aware of my "history". For starters, he was punted off my Yahoo!
group for lap-dancing holocaust-deniers. You'll note he's invited his
disgusting islamonazi friend "X98" over here. Enjoy your new pals, Shelly.
Hey: Weren't you *Jewish*? I forget....
> He's a paid shill for the Republican party, much like Matt Drudge.
...
> So you aren't really denying it,...
Of course I deny it.
I think I'll sue you for libel if you accuse me of it again. Not having
any use for courts, I've never contemplated a lawsuit before, but it would
amuse me to no end to haul *you* up, because you're a *congenital liar*
who *deserves* to be dragged through the intestinal tract of the
government *you made*. It's called irony -- not as fitting an irony as,
say, one of Stalin's lieutenant's getting it in the back of the head, but
a fitting irony nonetheless.
Terry Cross
> "S Sheldon" <use...@sodablue.org> painted his ass red while under the
> effects of bad mushrooms:
>
> > "Terry Cross" <tcro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > BTW, if you aren't aware of Michael Schneider's history...
>
>
> Oh, he's aware of my "history".
In fact, I am. Mike rarely writes anything of substance. He operates
mostly as a switchboard, ransacking the Internet for things that feed
his opinions, and reposting things he might like to have written. He
is a sort of camouflage crab, plucking seaweed off the ocean floor and
gluing it to his shell.
And of course, he pinches people regularly -- just for fun, of course.
:-)
He's kind of an enforcer of G. Gordon Liddy-ocracy.
> For starters, he was punted off my Yahoo! group for lap-dancing holocaust-
> deniers.
I do not believe that was the incident. I discussed the Holocaust
years ago on acecw, but I was not persona non grata then. Your
friends from Nizkor took me on because I would not deep-six Carol
Valentine. They came on like loveable ol' George Bush: My enemy must
be your enemy too, or YOU are my enemy.
And then in 2000, you slammed me into your yahoo group. I didn't ask,
you didn't invite. Just slammed in like an MCI long distance
"customer." I must conclude you weren't too upset about me them.
So it wasn't Holocaust. As you said earlier, the real problem was
more like moon landing denial.
> You'll note he's invited his
> disgusting islamonazi friend "X98" over here.
I invited X98? Weren't you a subscriber of his group, at one point,
Mike? I could as easily say that HE invited YOU: he started a thread,
and you kept it going long after he was gone.
Gee, folks, did you notice what X98 drug in?
TCross
Michael Schneider
> > > BTW, if you aren't aware of Michael Schneider's history...
> >
> > Oh, he's aware of my "history".
>
> In fact, I am. Mike rarely writes anything of substance. He operates
> mostly as a switchboard, ransacking the Internet for things
...such as your fellating the vicious nazi "X98".
Don't forget that.
So really: Why are you here in mn.general, and how is it that "X98"
mysteriously shows up only 24hrs after I flag you on your joo-hater past?
Is he porking you, and you talk in your sleep?
S Sheldon
> ...
> > So you aren't really denying it,...
>
>
> Of course I deny it.
Yeah yeah... we know you don't want the truth to come out.
But I still find it curious how your anti-government rhetoric all dried up
when Bush came to office.
Terry Cross
> tcro...@yahoo.com (Terry Cross) wrote:
>
> > > > BTW, if you aren't aware of Michael Schneider's history...
> > >
> > > Oh, he's aware of my "history".
> >
> > In fact, I am. Mike rarely writes anything of substance. He operates
> > mostly as a switchboard, ransacking the Internet for things
>
>
> ...such as your fellating the vicious nazi "X98".
By all evidence, X98 is a Moslem. You are getting your under-the-bed
boogie-men confused.
The big pros (like Rumsfeld) use recipe cards to manage their boogie-man
files. Maybe you should too.
TCross
X98
> effects of bad mushrooms:
>
> > "Terry Cross" <tcro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > BTW, if you aren't aware of Michael Schneider's history...
>
>
> Hey: Weren't you *Jewish*? I forget....
>
>
Being Jewish does not *necessarily* mean being a scumbag Zionist.
X98
******************************
Anti-Zionist Jews Photo Gallery
http://www.muhajabah.com/images/azj/gallery.php
This page contains a slideshow of photographs of ultra-Orthodox Jews who are
strictly opposed to the state of Israel. Would you believe in Jews who say
"Zionism is Nazism"? Who burn the Israeli flag? Who say that Palestine
belongs to the Palestinians? You can find all that here. These are real
photographs!
****************************
Jewish Anti-Zionist Caucus Solidarity Statement
http://www.justiceinpalestine.org/antizionist.html
We, the Jewish Anti-Zionist Caucus of the February 2002 National Conference
of the Palestine Solidarity Movement hosted by Students for Justice in
Palestine, Berkeley, convey our resounding support for the Points of Unity
consensed upon by the conference's over 480 participants. We, as full
participants of the conference, whose presence was warmly welcomed and
supported by all other conference attendants, including by our brothers and
sisters who came all the way from Palestine to attend, were fully active in
the decision making process.
We are Sephardi, Mizrachi, and Ashkenazi Jews of all ages, genders, and
sexual orientations. Among us are both secular and observant Jews. What
unifies us is our commitment to the imperative that as Jews we cannot be
silent and complicit with the brutal onslaught against the Palestinian
people which has been raging for the last fifty four years in our name. We
stand in solidarity with not only the Palestinian people, within the
'greenlines', those in the occupied territories, refugee camps, and in
Diaspora; but with Jews from South Africa to San Francisco, who have raised
their voices in brave dissent.
We hold that the legacy of persecution and brave resistance of the Jewish
people has taught us the importance and integrity of such struggles. From
the Inquisition (when ironically so many Jews fell alongside our equally
targeted Muslim counterparts) to the Shoah or Holocaust, when full scale
genocide was attempted against Jews in Europe, we have been taught to
remember. For if we forget, it could happen again.
It is in this legacy and in our tradition of Tikkun Olam, of healing and
transforming the world, that we refuse to forget or remain silent about the
unjust and unlawful colonization of Palestine, the forced expulsion of close
to one million people from their homes, and the genocide that is being waged
against the Palestinian people. Further, we believe that the liberation of
Jews, all Jews from the ones in the Lower East Side in Brooklyn to Jews in
Northeast Ethiopia, is inextricably bound to that of Palestinians, all
Palestinians, be they Muslim, Christian, or Jewish-lest we forget the
illegitimacy of the duality of Jews vs Arabs which we are accustomed to
hearing and are too quick to believe. Like so many other myths on which
political Zionist teaching has depended, this too is untruth.
Finally, and most importantly, as Jews we are taught to cherish our dead
ancestors. There is a saying, may their memory be for a blessing. As Jews
who renounce the racism intrinsic to political Zionism and the horrifying
toll its execution has taken on Palestinian lives throughout the duration of
its ever escalating campaign of ethnic cleansing, we hope that the blessing
that we can help deliver in the world in honor of our fallen ancestors will
be the restoration of freedom and human rights and full repatriation to the
Palestinian people. For more information: jews4pa...@yahoo.com
X98
> tcro...@yahoo.com (Terry Cross) wrote:
>
> > > > BTW, if you aren't aware of Michael Schneider's history...
> > >
> > > Oh, he's aware of my "history".
> >
> > In fact, I am. Mike rarely writes anything of substance. He operates
> > mostly as a switchboard, ransacking the Internet for things
>
>
> ...such as your fellating the vicious nazi "X98".
>
> Don't forget that.
>
>
> So really: Why are you here in mn.general, and how is it that "X98"
> mysteriously shows up only 24hrs after I flag you on your joo-hater past?
> Is he porking you, and you talk in your sleep?
>
Hey Schneider, if you can roll Beck over for a moment, try freeing your head
from your Zionist asshole and use some common sense.
If you were paying attention to this WAR, you would know that I have been
operating in other areas over the last year.
Upon returning to this theater, I looked up known pigs.... because it is ass
kicking time.
You were not top on the list, but the stench of your Zionist rhetoric
demands attention less your psychobullshit go unteated in to the minds of
the public.
Word up!
X98
Az Akial
"X98" <x...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:u4Ega.21910$pK4.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
X98 down..
<flush>
X98
> tcro...@yahoo.com (Terry Cross) wrote:
>
> > The US sold military grade to Iraq.
>
>
> Gee, what a surprise: No credible cites from the lying punk supporter of
> islamofascist zealotry and holocaust-denial. And don't try to deny that
> either, or I'll have to slap up a number of your original submissions to
> American_Liberty to prove the point.
>
> You're a *scumbag*, Cross. Disappear.
>
In your dreams ZioPig. The only disappearing to be done is the forceful
removal of your very consciousness construct. You are to be made of the
synagogue of Satan with the rest of the liars and those who love to make a
lie.
Word is Bond!....Asshole!
X98
Michael Schneider
> In your dreams ZioPig. The only disappearing to be done is
....by Colt .38.
So goose your buddies to gas the fucker on already, willya?
S. Smith
>Michael Schneider <yehaw...@usfamily.net> wrote:
>:
>: ....by Colt .38.
>
>Is that still firing?
Not nearly enough.
X98
"S. Smith" <scott...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:hdgm8vk0595cvnngu...@4ax.com...
> On 02 Apr 2003 16:20:43 GMT, drec...@visi.com (Mike Horwath) wrote:
>
> >Michael Schneider <yehaw...@usfamily.net> wrote:
"Michael Schneider" <yehaw...@usfamily.net> wrote in message
news:yehawconan-02...@64.212.141.227...
> >>>"X98" <x...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >>>In your dreams ZioPig. The only disappearing to be done is
>
>
> >
> >>....by Colt .38.
>
>
> > > So goose your buddies to gas the fucker on already, willya?
>
> >
> >Is that still firing?
>
>
> Not nearly enough.
>
>
>
I would that you fools of Zionism pay attention....
A man at Mt.Carmel, Waco Texas, said it strait on the
SABBATH DAY......
"We witnessed the evil, saw the terror that our own people felt. We
witnessed it. We knew; we knew in our hearts. You can't kill the spirit. You
can kill the man, but you can't kill the spirit. I don't care whether it's
this goddam government or another government. . . . What we witnessed here
is just a precursor to what is yet to come. We experienced it here on a very
small scale. All you have to do is read the Revelation. And before that
spirit returns, there's going to be hell on this earth, and people are gonna
walk around in the dust and in the smoke, and they will be screaming and
crying and praying."
Word of the Word
X98
Michael Schneider
> A man at Mt.Carmel, Waco Texas, said it strait on the
You don't know how that word is spelled, do you?
feklar
>All you have to do is read the Revelation. And before that
>spirit returns, there's going to be hell on this earth, and people are gonna
>walk around in the dust and in the smoke, and they will be screaming and
>crying and praying."
At least 100 Theology Professors, having a combined total Theology
training of 1600 years, have all come to the conclusion that
Revelation is a crock of shit written by the Romans.
These PhD's teach new preists at Seminaries, but it sure does seem to
be taking its time filtering on down
X98
>
> >Michael Schneider <yehaw...@usfamily.net> wrote:
"Michael Schneider" <yehaw...@usfamily.net> wrote in message
news:yehawconan-02...@64.212.141.227...
> >>>"X98" <x...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >>>In your dreams ZioPig. The only disappearing to be done is
>
>
> >
> >>....by Colt .38.
>
>
> > > So goose your buddies to gas the fucker on already, willya?
>
> >
> >Is that still firing?
>
>
> Not nearly enough.
>
>
>
I would that you fools of Zionism pay attention....
A man at Mt.Carmel, Waco Texas, said it strait on the
SABBATH DAY......
"We witnessed the evil, saw the terror that our own people felt. We
witnessed it. We knew; we knew in our hearts. You can't kill the spirit. You
can kill the man, but you can't kill the spirit. I don't care whether it's
this goddam government or another government. . . . What we witnessed here
is just a precursor to what is yet to come. We experienced it here on a very
small scale. All you have to do is read the Revelation. And before that
spirit returns, there's going to be hell on this earth, and people are gonna
walk around in the dust and in the smoke, and they will be screaming and
crying and praying."
X98
"feklar" <fek...@rock.com> wrote in message
news:3e8fdcec...@news.kc.sbcglobal.net...
Scribes... Zionist whores who write to their pay checks... like Michael
Schneider.
Michael Schneider
X98
"X98" <x...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:0y0ka.12166$4P1.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "feklar" <fek...@rock.com> wrote in message
> news:3e8fdcec...@news.kc.sbcglobal.net...
> > On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 03:44:06 GMT, "X98" <x...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > >All you have to do is read the Revelation. And before that
> > >spirit returns, there's going to be hell on this earth, and people are
> gonna
> > >walk around in the dust and in the smoke, and they will be screaming
and
> > >crying and praying."
> >
> > At least 100 Theology Professors, having a combined total Theology
> > training of 1600 years, have all come to the conclusion that
> > Revelation is a crock of shit written by the Romans.
> >
> > These PhD's teach new preists at Seminaries, but it sure does seem to
> > be taking its time filtering on down
> >
> >
> >
>
X98:
> Scribes... Zionist whores who write to their pay checks... like Michael
> Schneider.
>
>
>
Schneider:
> "X98" <x...@earthlink.net> dreamt of:
>
> > Zionist whores
>
> --
X98:
If any man were to dream of a whore the best he could conjure would be a
Zionist whore, because as David Koresh said, the criminal state of Israel
(Zionism) is spoken of in the Book of Revelation as...
*MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH*
David hated the bastards and so does every other human being not of a filthy
a diseased heart.
But don't worry Schneider the final solution about to be administered...
your diseased heart will be destroyed... and then you wont have to worry
about anything..... any more.
Word is Bond
X98
Isle Of The Dead
>
> But don't worry Schneider the final solution about to be administered...
> your diseased heart will be destroyed... and then you wont have to worry
> about anything..... any more.
Like I told ya before, X....
Marines will go to Iraq and kill the extremists
quickly.... very quickly... so that Americans
can get back to their teevee show and
shopping malls.
> Word is Bond
Oh, please. Go live in Egypt for awhile.