Minnesota sucks
grep
I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend and I
had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
1.) Finding a [system administrator's] Job in Minnesota -
Good luck. I've been here for almost 7 months now and I've only worked for 4
of those months. Most of the job's that are posted to job boards detail the
single most *strangest* requirements for employment. Some examples are:
"System Administrator wanted. Must also have 7+ years C++ experience
developing e-commerce solutions.", "system administrator wanted, must also
assume responsibilities of full time security administrator as well as
primary Oracle administrator.", "system administrator position availible,
must also have experience faxing, filing and 10-key".
It would be annoying and frustrating if it weren't so damn funny by now.
Other people have described minnesota's job postings as, `It looks like the
people who own companies here just don't know what they're asking for in the
realm of technology. It's almost as if they have this geeky cousin who's
been playing with AOL for the past year, who makes these obscure job
requirements up for his nutty CEO uncle.'
2.) Parking in the twin cities [in winter] -
Heh, good luck. There's this really nifty law here called the "snow
emergency" law that states you must park your car on either the odd side of
the street or the even side of the street, depending on when they declare
this emergency. You're supposed to know when to move your car, either by
monitoring the TV closely for three days or by word-of-mouth from friends. I
called the city of Minneapolis and they *told me* that they do not yet
broadcast it on the radio. (This was as of 2001.) I asked her, "So, what if
my girlfriend and I don't own a television? Say for instance, we just like
to read alot? How would we know?". Her reaction, "Who dosen't own a TV?
What's wrong with you?"
2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live. The brownstone
brick buildings are here, the apartments from 1940, wooden floors, etc..
it's all located here. It's also populated with hipster student-types who
"don't like to work for the man", (i.e. have a job making them $8/hr at the
local coffee ***** .) These types like to buy cars, then park them on the
sidestreets in uptown. It's just like the white trash people who park them
in thier yards? Well these lovely folks don't have yards, so they park them
on the limited-parking side streets and work on them there. Then they invite
thier friends from North Dakota, Iowa and Wisconsin to drive over, help them
with thier cars and park on the side streets, so by the time they're done
gathering enough idiots, there's a wall pf parked cars and the residents
have to park *blocks* away from thier home.
You might think i'm kidding, but i'm totlly serious. It was recently
featured on one of the minnesota public-access shows, basically broadcasting
the Minneapolis city government's legistature about how the uptown area's
parking is the worst anywhere in the twin cities. They motioned to issue
resident parking stickers, but WERE TURNED DOWN BECAUSE THE DIRECTOR OF THE
DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION FOR MINNESOTA THOUGHT IT COST TOO MUCH AND WAS
UNPREPARED FOR THAT QUESTION FROM THE LEGISLATOR!!!! No joke! He actually
turned down the motion for those two reasons.
3.) Minnesota Drivers -
Drivers in New York are the worst, from what i've heard. After them come the
LA drivers. Now, i've experienced the LA drivers and I can tell tou this..
MINNESOTA DRIVERS ARE *MUCH* WORSE THAN LA DRIVERS!!!!
There's a big difference when you're doing something behind the wheel of a
car, (let's say you're cutting someone off, you're swinging across two lanes
of highway traffic to catch that exit you're about to miss, etc., etc.. you
know what i mean) ..doing it with the deliberate intent and knowledge that
what you're doing is dangerous and wrong, [this is the LA and NY way]. Then
there's the minnesota way, which involves doing things like that because
YOU'RE SIMPLY TOO STUPID TO KNOW ANY BETTER!!! I've had people pull out in
front of me over 60 times so far. 40 of them had the most *suprised* look on
thier faces when I came within inches of taking off the paint on the side of
thier car. I've had people stopped at a stoplight, in the FAR LEFT LANE, THE
FAR LEFT TURN LANE IN FACT, *wheel* thier car around and *park* slanted,
angled towards the right turn lane.
the examples could go on, and on, and on, and on, but i'll stop here and
spare you the rest of my sad story, in the hopes that i'll get more people
to post here.
PERHAPS WE'LL START A MOVEMENT!!! AND WE'LL FINALLY FIX THINGS IN
MINNESOTA!!! YEAH!!! AND WE'LL LOBBY FOR....
Screw that, i'm going back to california.
-grep
Dreamspinner3
"grep" <grep...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aepbeb$8pqu7$1...@ID-53815.news.dfncis.de...
lazy man
>
>
> I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend and I
> had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
> commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
So when are you moving back?
You know, it may seem like a shitty state, but all those reasons you
state it sucks is really how we keep the riff raff out. It all weeds
out the weak.
S. Smith
>Let's talk about Minnesota.
>
>I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend and I
>had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
>commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
>
>1.) Finding a [system administrator's] Job in Minnesota -
>
>Good luck. I've been here for almost 7 months now and I've only worked for 4
>of those months. Most of the job's that are posted to job boards detail the
>single most *strangest* requirements for employment. Some examples are:
>"System Administrator wanted. Must also have 7+ years C++ experience
>developing e-commerce solutions.", "system administrator wanted, must also
>assume responsibilities of full time security administrator as well as
>primary Oracle administrator.", "system administrator position availible,
>must also have experience faxing, filing and 10-key".
Sounds like you need to get some real-world experience under your belt.
Those nifty certifications and test scores won't help you much in finding
a real job right now. You need to actually be versatile and specialize in
something, or several things, to have a leg up these days.
>2.) Parking in the twin cities [in winter] -
>
>Heh, good luck. There's this really nifty law here called the "snow
>emergency" law that states you must park your car on either the odd side of
>the street or the even side of the street, depending on when they declare
>this emergency.
Too confusing for you? Start riding the bus or walking instead. Driving
abviously sounds too complicated for you.
>2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
>Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live.
So avoid Uptown if you can. Easy enough problem to solve there.
>3.) Minnesota Drivers -
>
>Drivers in New York are the worst, from what i've heard. After them come the
>LA drivers. Now, i've experienced the LA drivers and I can tell tou this..
>MINNESOTA DRIVERS ARE *MUCH* WORSE THAN LA DRIVERS!!!!
>There's a big difference when you're doing something behind the wheel of a
>car, (let's say you're cutting someone off, you're swinging across two lanes
>of highway traffic to catch that exit you're about to miss, etc., etc.. you
>know what i mean) ..doing it with the deliberate intent and knowledge that
>what you're doing is dangerous and wrong, [this is the LA and NY way]. Then
>there's the minnesota way, which involves doing things like that because
>YOU'RE SIMPLY TOO STUPID TO KNOW ANY BETTER!!!
Well, you won't get much of an argument from me here. Minnesota
drivers are some of the most careless and clueless drivers I've encountered,
and I've driven all over the country. Still, I'll take the clueless Minnesota
drivers over the California traffic (especially L.A.) any day.
S. Smith
wrote:
>"grep" <grep...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:aepbeb$8pqu7$1...@ID-53815.news.dfncis.de...
>
>> Screw that, i'm going back to california.
>>
>Good riddance & don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
I wonder if he drives a "classic" Volkswagen. ;-)
Bill Seurer
> I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend and I
> had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
> commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
Good bye and enjoy the trip home!
--
- Bill at seurer.net
http://www.seurer.net
Hell Toupee
>
> I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend and I
> had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
> commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
1a. Our rents are high and our commutes can be long, too. Didn't you
do any research before you moved here?
> 1.) Finding a [system administrator's] Job in Minnesota -
>
> Good luck. I've been here for almost 7 months now and I've only worked for 4
> of those months.
The state reports these kinds of jobs here have had among the highest
layoff rates of all types of jobs over the past several months. Your
timing was bad.
> Other people have described minnesota's job postings as, `It looks like the
> people who own companies here just don't know what they're asking for in the
> realm of technology. It's almost as if they have this geeky cousin who's
> been playing with AOL for the past year, who makes these obscure job
> requirements up for his nutty CEO uncle.'
This can happen, yes. I've a sister in HR who says this is exactly
what happens at the private company she works for. That's not to say
it happens everywhere.
>
> 2.) Parking in the twin cities [in winter] -
>
> You're supposed to know when to move your car, either by
> monitoring the TV closely for three days or by word-of-mouth from friends.
>I called the city of Minneapolis and they *told me* that they do not yet
> broadcast it on the radio. (This was as of 2001.) I asked her, "So, what if
> my girlfriend and I don't own a television? Say for instance, we just like
> to read alot? How would we know?".
Or hey, Mr. Computer Expert Guy, you *could* Google for the City of
Minneapolis' Snow Emergency Website and click 'Subscribe' to get the
latest announcements in email! But I guess you'd have no idea how to
do that - or even be able to imagine looking it up. After all, stuff
like the internet and email has absolutely no relationship whatsoever
to your area of expertise.
> 2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
> Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live.
Is that why you chose to live there? Again, didja do _any_ research
before moving here, or didn't that thought cross your mind? There are
a lot of places here to rent which have offstreet parking...even if
they aren't located in the 'trendy' part of town. Heck, you wouldn't
have even had to worry about folks fixing their cars on the streets
had you spent a little time and effort looking around before signing
that lease.
> You might think i'm kidding, but i'm totlly serious. It was recently
> featured on one of the minnesota public-access shows, basically broadcasting
> the Minneapolis city government's legistature
Minneapolis city government doesn't include a legislature. The State
government does, though.
>about how the uptown area's
> parking is the worst anywhere in the twin cities. They motioned to issue
> resident parking stickers, but WERE TURNED DOWN BECAUSE THE DIRECTOR OF THE
> DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION FOR MINNESOTA
DOT doesn't have a director. It has a commissioner, though. Are you
sure you were compos mentis when you were watching whatever you
thought you were watching?
>THOUGHT IT COST TOO MUCH AND WAS
> UNPREPARED FOR THAT QUESTION FROM THE LEGISLATOR!!!! No joke! He actually
> turned down the motion for those two reasons.
The DOT doesn't get involved in these issues. It's a city issue. The
city council can pass an ordinance requiring permit parking without
requiring the DOT or even the Met Council to get involved. In fact,
that's what they've done in several other neighborhoods. Were you
actually watching a show, or are you repeating what you thought you
heard someone telling you? Do you have, perhaps, a comprehension
problem? That might explain your ongoing unemployment.
> 3.) Minnesota Drivers -
>
> Drivers in New York are the worst, from what i've heard. After them come the
> LA drivers.
Them's fightin' words. Anyone who's ever lived here knows MN drivers
are the worst. The best part of an outstate vacation is experiencing
driving in other states. The secret, you see, is to discourage more
folks from moving here. Our highway infrastructure wasn't built to
handle any more.
> Screw that, i'm going back to california.
Like the bumper sticker says, "Welcome to Minnesota. Now go home."
HellT
Mike O'Brien
> I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend and
I
> had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
> commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
So, on your way back why don't you go camping for a week--say somewhere in
Colorado? Be sure to bring your marshmallows and weenies...
Regards,
Mike O'Brien
O _
\ _/\,%)
(*)-----(*) recumbents rock!
Bill Seurer
> On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:21:48 -0400, "grep" <grep...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
>>Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live.
>
> So avoid Uptown if you can. Easy enough problem to solve there.
Thinking about it this is the weirdest of his "sucks" arguments.
Someone from SAN FRANCISCO complaining about parking?!?!?!
Shawn Barnhart
> 1.) Finding a [system administrator's] Job in Minnesota -
>
> It would be annoying and frustrating if it weren't so damn funny by now.
>
> Other people have described minnesota's job postings as, `It looks like
the
> people who own companies here just don't know what they're asking for in
the
> realm of technology. It's almost as if they have this geeky cousin who's
> been playing with AOL for the past year, who makes these obscure job
> requirements up for his nutty CEO uncle.'
I've actually heard this type of complaint from MN natives and have
experienced it to a lesser degree myself.
I think there are a lot of industries where IT is relatively new and
incorrectly percieved by many in senior management positions as relatively
unimportant to their core business function. The outcome of this is that IT
salaries, management and decision-making weight are all below where they
should be. I've also talked to people who actually have real, academic-type
management backgrounds who say that this is a common weakness in a
management culture that's heavily oriented towards marketing and sales.
I've known people that were looking for work when work was plentiful who
have complained about places that wanted "the world" in terms of experience
and skills but were paying wages that were laughable or expected you to not
only do development, but maintain operation systems (email, filesharing)
*and* provide desktop support for end users. It comes back to the
importance of IT to the organization -- its not important so salaries and
headcounts are low requiring the wearing of (too) many hats, management
advancement based on seniority/loyalty or how willing you are to fix the
boss' home computer.
> 2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
> Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live. The brownstone
> brick buildings are here, the apartments from 1940, wooden floors, etc..
I lived Uptown for 5 years (25th and Dupont) and never had a problem
parking. At the farthest I parked half-block from my apartment. I asked a
friend who still lives there (26th and Freemont) and he said the same thing.
> 3.) Minnesota Drivers -
I wonder if the MN driver situation is a small-town-to-big-city phenomena.
A lot of people in the MN area didn't grow up here, they grew up in small
towns in MN, ND, SD, WI and so on. When you learn to drive in a small town
and learn many of your basic driving responses there you have a different
attitude towards traffic, what kinds of stunts you can pull, etc. My wife
grew up in a small town in ND and she does all kinds of stupid things that
would be perfectly logical where there's little or no traffic but which make
my skin crawl in traffic.
Many CA drivers or other urban areas might not have the kind of
small-town-big-city migration patterns the Twin Cities have -- the people
who live there learned to drive there and still do so and have adapted
better to the traffic patterns.
I know, its a stereotype and doesn't account for everything but it kind of
makes sense.
> Screw that, i'm going back to california.
Enjoy. Northern CA is pretty and you can't beat SF restaurants. I wouldn't
live in SoCal unless I was really rich and could afford the drugs to blur my
senses...
S. Smith
>S. Smith wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:21:48 -0400, "grep" <grep...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
>>>Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live.
>>
>> So avoid Uptown if you can. Easy enough problem to solve there.
>
>Thinking about it this is the weirdest of his "sucks" arguments.
>Someone from SAN FRANCISCO complaining about parking?!?!?!
Well, Uptown's parking situation does suck, especially on the
busy weekends. I used to rent a house at 28th and Girard, years
ago, and I could almost never find street parking in front (or even near)
the house. The parking situation has only gotten worse there
over the years, IMO.
Dan Goodman
> S. Smith wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:21:48 -0400, "grep" <grep...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
>>>Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live.
>>
>> So avoid Uptown if you can. Easy enough problem to solve there.
>
> Thinking about it this is the weirdest of his "sucks" arguments.
> Someone from SAN FRANCISCO complaining about parking?!?!?!
Maybe public transit has _really_ caught on there since your last visit?
Thomas T. Veldhouse
decade. They have mismanaged projects and funding and now they have
the balls to say they need more money. Yes they do, but I sure as
hell am not giving it to such an inefficient system if I can help it.
They need to lay waste to MNDOT and form another company with
experience in other cities and no connection to the current
bureaucrats.
Tom Veldhouse
On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 03:21:48 -0400, "grep" <grep...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Let's talk about Minnesota.
Bill Seurer
> Maybe public transit has _really_ caught on there since your last visit?
Actually, that's one of the coolest things about SF; the cable cars and
BART are lots of fun to ride, at least for visitors. I went there for
vacation one time and that's the only thing my now teen aged daughter
remembers about the trip. We spent 5 days vacationing in SF without
needing a car.
S. Smith
>Dan Goodman wrote:
>
>> Maybe public transit has _really_ caught on there since your last visit?
>
>Actually, that's one of the coolest things about SF; the cable cars and
>BART are lots of fun to ride, at least for visitors. I went there for
>vacation one time and that's the only thing my now teen aged daughter
>remembers about the trip. We spent 5 days vacationing in SF without
>needing a car.
I would have to agree. I was just out in San Francisco for work
a couple months ago and I never needed a car. They have a good
concept of how public transportation should work. I took the BART in
from the airport to my hotel downtown and it was easy and cheap
(albeit not the fastest way to get there). Cable cars, buses and taxis were
everywhere I needed one. If only L.A. could get remotely close to the
level of public transportation that SF has, it might actually be a tolerable
city to get around in, rather than a never-ending traffic nightmare.
Minneapolis has a long way to go in regard to public transportation
and traffic infrastructure, that much is certain.
Brian G. Mueller
>
>
> I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend and
I
> had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
> commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
>
>
> 1.) Finding a [system administrator's] Job in Minnesota -
>
> Good luck. I've been here for almost 7 months now and I've only worked for
4
> of those months. Most of the job's that are posted to job boards detail
the
> single most *strangest* requirements for employment. Some examples are:
> "System Administrator wanted. Must also have 7+ years C++ experience
> developing e-commerce solutions.", "system administrator wanted, must also
> assume responsibilities of full time security administrator as well as
> primary Oracle administrator.", "system administrator position availible,
> must also have experience faxing, filing and 10-key".
>
> It would be annoying and frustrating if it weren't so damn funny by now.
>
> Other people have described minnesota's job postings as, `It looks like
the
> people who own companies here just don't know what they're asking for in
the
> realm of technology. It's almost as if they have this geeky cousin who's
> been playing with AOL for the past year, who makes these obscure job
> requirements up for his nutty CEO uncle.'
You also realize that tech jobs took a hit recently, don't you? There are
now far too many administrators for far too few systems.
> 2.) Parking in the twin cities [in winter] -
>
> Heh, good luck. There's this really nifty law here called the "snow
> emergency" law that states you must park your car on either the odd side
of
> the street or the even side of the street, depending on when they declare
> this emergency. You're supposed to know when to move your car, either by
> monitoring the TV closely for three days or by word-of-mouth from friends.
I
> called the city of Minneapolis and they *told me* that they do not yet
> broadcast it on the radio. (This was as of 2001.) I asked her, "So, what
if
> my girlfriend and I don't own a television? Say for instance, we just like
> to read alot? How would we know?". Her reaction, "Who dosen't own a TV?
> What's wrong with you?"
And, you apparently have access to a computer, and these alerts are easily
found online. In fact, when I lived in Minneapolis, I never used the TV for
this info.
> 2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
> Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live. The brownstone
> brick buildings are here, the apartments from 1940, wooden floors, etc..
> it's all located here. It's also populated with hipster student-types who
> "don't like to work for the man", (i.e. have a job making them $8/hr at
the
> local coffee ***** .) These types like to buy cars, then park them on the
> sidestreets in uptown. It's just like the white trash people who park them
> in thier yards? Well these lovely folks don't have yards, so they park
them
> on the limited-parking side streets and work on them there. Then they
invite
> thier friends from North Dakota, Iowa and Wisconsin to drive over, help
them
> with thier cars and park on the side streets, so by the time they're done
> gathering enough idiots, there's a wall pf parked cars and the residents
> have to park *blocks* away from thier home.
That's interesting. I lived on Garfield and 22nd for over a year and never
had a problem parking. I never parked more than a block and a half from my
apartment, even in winter. I never had a problem with snow emergencies
because I knew about them and anticipate then and tries to get info in
advance. And, I most certainly was not someone who you most carelessly
characterize as "not wanting to work for the man."
The reality of the situation hit home when I was talking to our building's
manager. He had lived in Chicago, where parking was so bad that he had to
take a bus to get to his car.
A situation is only as bad a syou make it.
> Screw that, i'm going back to california.
Well, you can either whine about it, change it, or leave. I can understand
some of your frustration, but I can also say I will not be sorry t see you
go, if that's what you decide.
> -grep
BGM
Bill Seurer
> Minneapolis has a long way to go in regard to public transportation
> and traffic infrastructure, that much is certain.
SF is a *LOT* more compact than even the old parts of Minneapolis,
though. Being on a peninsula really limited the available land so
people made do with a lot less space than here. It is fun to pick up
one of the property magazines/inserts while there and see the prices
people ask for places that wouldn't get 1/5th (maybe 1/10th) of that here.
Mike Schneider
<dreams...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Good riddance & don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Congratulations: You win the "I was the first sucker to fall for this
troll" prize.
--
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Liberty/files/links.htm
Reply to mike1@@@usfamily.net sans two @@, or your reply won't reach me.
"Blood! Boobs! Swords! Snakes!"--fwfr.com four word film review of "Conan"
K
<post snipped>
Well, I can't comment on the other parts, but I have to say that I agree
with you about the driving -- I learned to drive in San Jose, spent a lot of
driving years in Milwaukee area and Chicago area as well, and I have to say,
I think this is about the worst.
As far as the parking in Uptown . . . maybe you'd prefer the burbs?
Job market in that field seems to be bad everywhere, I don't think it's just
a Minnesota phenomena.
There are a lot of positives to be experienced here . . . but when you hit
the negatives first thing, it can be a little hard to get past them see the
rest (transplant here myself, didn't like it one tiny little bit the first
two years, spent a lot of long weekends interviewing to try and move back
where I came from, and it didn't work out-- now, I probably wouldn't leave).
Maybe after experiencing a summer here, you would feel differently? Just a
thought.
Dan Goodman
news:uh1nd3m...@corp.supernews.com:
> That's interesting. I lived on Garfield and 22nd for over a year and
> never had a problem parking. I never parked more than a block and a
> half from my apartment, even in winter. I never had a problem with
> snow emergencies because I knew about them and anticipate then and
> tries to get info in advance. And, I most certainly was not someone
> who you most carelessly characterize as "not wanting to work for the
> man."
>
> The reality of the situation hit home when I was talking to our
> building's manager. He had lived in Chicago, where parking was so bad
> that he had to take a bus to get to his car.
In New York City, some car owners leave their cars parked in New Jersey.
Daniel Snyder
"grep" <grep...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Let's talk about Minnesota.
>
>
> I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend and I
> had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
> commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
I won't read any further than this and merely reply "don't let the door
hit you..."
And take Jesse with you!
S. Smith
In many companies, IT professionals come in many flavors and often have
multiple responsibilities. It's really not that unusual to find IT managers
and support staff wearing many hats (i.e. network admin, info security,
app development, training, etc.). What often happens is that someone is
hired for a specific job, but they eventually work their way into handling
multiple functions and areas of expertise. When they leave, companies
often look for someone to fill the same functions (which is usually expecting
too much).
I really don't think Minnesota is that unusual in this scenario, I see it happen
all over the country. Although, not nearly as often lately, many of those
jobs just aren't there anymore...which is another reason so many people
end up forced into handling multiple job functions, they are really doing
the work of more than one person these days due to layoffs and cutbacks.
>> 2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
>> Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live. The brownstone
>> brick buildings are here, the apartments from 1940, wooden floors, etc..
>
>I lived Uptown for 5 years (25th and Dupont) and never had a problem
>parking. At the farthest I parked half-block from my apartment. I asked a
>friend who still lives there (26th and Freemont) and he said the same thing.
25th is probably far enough away from the hub of Hennepin and Lake, so
that's why you didn't see parking issues often there. In fact, I often had to park
down around 26th or 27th street when I lived at Girard and 28th, because
that's where the parking was usually more available. The closer you get
to Hennepin and Lake, the tougher the parking gets to find.
>> 3.) Minnesota Drivers -
>
>I wonder if the MN driver situation is a small-town-to-big-city phenomena.
>A lot of people in the MN area didn't grow up here, they grew up in small
>towns in MN, ND, SD, WI and so on. When you learn to drive in a small town
>and learn many of your basic driving responses there you have a different
>attitude towards traffic, what kinds of stunts you can pull, etc. My wife
>grew up in a small town in ND and she does all kinds of stupid things that
>would be perfectly logical where there's little or no traffic but which make
>my skin crawl in traffic.
>
>Many CA drivers or other urban areas might not have the kind of
>small-town-big-city migration patterns the Twin Cities have -- the people
>who live there learned to drive there and still do so and have adapted
>better to the traffic patterns.
>
>I know, its a stereotype and doesn't account for everything but it kind of
>makes sense.
Possibly, but I think by and large it's just because people here are
a little more slow-witted behind the wheel than most. Is slow-witted
a common small town trait? ;)
>> Screw that, i'm going back to california.
>
>Enjoy. Northern CA is pretty and you can't beat SF restaurants. I wouldn't
>live in SoCal unless I was really rich and could afford the drugs to blur my
>senses...
After living in L.A., I swore I'd never live in Southern California again either.
If I had to live in California, it would have to be Northern California, somewhere
like SF, Sacramento or San Jose.
Lutsen Lumberjack
>
> I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend and I
> had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
> commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
I'm a native Minnesotan and I couldn't agree more. I lived 5 years in
the Bay Area and often yearn to move back.
> 1.) Finding a [system administrator's] Job in Minnesota - [...]
The job market here is very rigid, inflexible -- it's largely
controlled by stiff-shirt Wasp suburbanites. Since you're from the
Bay Area, you must realize that "suburbs" in the Twin Cities sense
don't exist everywhere. Even Concord or Walnut Creek, seen by San
Francisco as "boring", don't even come CLOSE to the social stricture
of the inner ring of suburbs here. Instead of Roseville or Apple
Valley, the Bay Area has vibrant alternatives such as Mill Valley or
Berkeley. It's sort of as if the suburbs here were all like
Stillwater or Hudson. Even Concord or Walnut Creek, perceived by the
Bay Area as "boring", don't come close to a Bloomington or St. Louis
Park in this regard.
People from these surrounding towns largely control the Twin Cities
business and technology communities. As with society in general, job
requirements are rigid. This is in high contrast to the Bay Area,
where a more free and easy-going atmosphere prevails in the job
market.
> 2.) Parking in the twin cities [in winter] -
>
> Heh, good luck. There's this really nifty law here called the "snow
> emergency" law [...]
This is really a problem, but at least they readily admit it here.
> 2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
> Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live. [...]
Parking is bound to be a problem because it is THE trendy place to
live around here. In California, a person has so many trendy choices!
But the stiff nature of society here has "permitted" only one trendy
neighborhood to exist. And I have to say though, you being from
California must realize that there is also an element of kidsy
QUASI-trendiness to Uptown as well. The local, provincial elements do
also show through at times.
> 3.) Minnesota Drivers -
>
> Drivers in New York are the worst, from what i've heard. After them come the
> LA drivers. Now, i've experienced the LA drivers and I can tell tou this..
> MINNESOTA DRIVERS ARE *MUCH* WORSE THAN LA DRIVERS!!!! [...]
I've been around the country and I have to agree. But since most
people are from here we've gotten used to how to "read" the behavior
of the surrounding cars. I still think it's worse in New York and
back east in general.
> PERHAPS WE'LL START A MOVEMENT!!! AND WE'LL FINALLY FIX THINGS IN
> MINNESOTA!!! YEAH!!! AND WE'LL LOBBY FOR....
> Screw that, i'm going back to california.
I wish you well. Though most outsiders end up leaving, thereby
maintaining the local nature of Minnesota, I surely cannot blame them!
Lutsen Lumberjack
>
> You know, it may seem like a shitty state, but all those reasons you
> state it sucks is really how we keep the riff raff out. It all weeds
> out the weak.
I've heard this "riff raff" crap once too often! Believe me,
Minnesotans don't have to try -- the riff raff just never makes it
here to begin with!
Greenland has never been in a war. They all lead peaceful, relaxed
lives. But that doesn't detract from the fact that Greenlanders are
viewed as pathetic by most people from the Real World. Similarly,
Minnesotans are often seen as pathetic, loutish, an "I feel sorry for
anyone with half a brain who lives there" kind of place.
Sure, you keep the organized crime, prostitution, and similar things
at bay. But on the other hand low-lifers continue to move here for
the welfare benefits. To me it sounds like something from Karl Marx!
Dreamspinner3
On Wed, 19 Jun 2002 20:35:57 GMT, mike1S...@usfamily.net (Mike
Schneider) wrote:
>
>Congratulations: You win the "I was the first sucker to fall for this
>troll" prize.
-----
Dreamspinner3
Homepage: http://members.tripod.com/dreamspinner3/
ICQ: 48547727
S. Smith
>I'm a native Minnesotan and I couldn't agree more. I lived 5 years in
>the Bay Area and often yearn to move back.
What's stopping you?
Plutarch
> Screw that, i'm going back to california.
Tell your friends how bad it is here, too, would you?
Plutarch
> lazy...@yahoo.com (lazy man) wrote in message news:<4131249b.02061...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > You know, it may seem like a shitty state, but all those reasons you
> > state it sucks is really how we keep the riff raff out. It all weeds
> > out the weak.
>
> I've heard this "riff raff" crap once too often! Believe me,
> Minnesotans don't have to try -- the riff raff just never makes it
> here to begin with!
>
> Greenland has never been in a war. They all lead peaceful, relaxed
> lives. But that doesn't detract from the fact that Greenlanders are
> viewed as pathetic by most people from the Real World. Similarly,
> Minnesotans are often seen as pathetic, loutish, an "I feel sorry for
> anyone with half a brain who lives there" kind of place.
Yupper. That's why Bush & Co. are dropping so
many bucks on Minnesota.
S Sheldon
>
What's a system administrator do?
S Sheldon
"Shawn Barnhart" <use...@grasslake.net> wrote in message
news:PN1Q8.668$N12.4...@ruti.visi.com...
>
> I think there are a lot of industries where IT is relatively new and
> incorrectly percieved by many in senior management positions as relatively
> unimportant to their core business function. The outcome of this is that
IT
> salaries, management and decision-making weight are all below where they
> should be. I've also talked to people who actually have real,
academic-type
> management backgrounds who say that this is a common weakness in a
> management culture that's heavily oriented towards marketing and sales.
Our company has that problem to some degree.
Fortunately our salaries are weighted appropriately, but we definately have
decision making problems... and positions with really bizarre job
requirements posted.
We're getting better as we mature, but I think you are right on that last
point. Part of the issue is that our focus isn't IT... it's essentially
sales and marketing of a product. The business drivers then want rapid
solutions, and IT has to accomodate. It's hard to accomodate if you have to
rely on others, and so you become a jack of all trades.
Dorian
"S Sheldon" <use...@sodablue.org> wrote in message
news:uh2n2pt...@corp.supernews.com...
Well...I am a System Administrator and my job duties range from maintenance
of servers on local and wide area networks, simple desktop support, and
every other thing in between (security, virus protection, backups, etc) . I
could mention about a hundred other things that I do but I'm sure you get
the idea. Remember that this is just me and that the title of System
Administrator may vary from company to company.
S. Smith
>"S Sheldon" <use...@sodablue.org> wrote in message
>news:uh2n2pt...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "grep" <grep...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:aepbeb$8pqu7$1...@ID-53815.news.dfncis.de...
>> >
>> > 1.) Finding a [system administrator's] Job in Minnesota -
>> >
>>
>> What's a system administrator do?
>>
>>
>Well...I am a System Administrator and my job duties range from maintenance
>of servers on local and wide area networks, simple desktop support, and
>every other thing in between (security, virus protection, backups, etc) . I
>could mention about a hundred other things that I do but I'm sure you get
>the idea.
Sounds like just about every other SysAdmin I know. Wearers of many
hats, with more just waiting to be tried on all the time. ;)
Dorian
> Sounds like just about every other SysAdmin I know. Wearers of many
> hats, with more just waiting to be tried on all the time. ;)
>
>
Well said.
Lutsen Lumberjack
A few family ties, but not too deep. In fact I may move in the fall.
However, dont be disappointed, I will always be endeared to
mn.general.
MELVIN S MARKER
agree with you! Minnesota land of two faced hypocrites, men that hide
behind there wife's skirts, bad politics and screw thy neighbor
"Daniel Snyder" <sn...@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
news:snyds-A6F500....@laurel.tc.umn.edu...
Brian G. Mueller
"MELVIN S MARKER" <sgt...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:Owal3yZGCHA.2080@cpimsnntpa03...
> Sounds like you got a taste of this Minnesota Nice bullshit. I totally
> agree with you! Minnesota land of two faced hypocrites, men that hide
> behind there wife's skirts, bad politics and screw thy neighbor
And people who whine incessantly about being "forced" to live here... oh woe
art thou...
BGM
Daniel Salomon
> In New York City, some car owners leave their cars parked in New Jersey.
Um, where in New Jersey? It's far easier to find unrestricted parking
within walking distance of rail transit in New York than in New
Jersey, and it isn't that hard to find an unrestricted spot near where
you need to be in most parts of Manhattan, except during the workweek
in Midtown or the Financial District where few people live. I also
don't know of anyone who would rather spend an hour each way getting
to their car instead of just paying a few hundred a month for a garage
space, unless the car would go unused for months at a time, in which
case I know of no public street anywhere where you could park for that
long without getting towed.
IMO it's far better to have unrestricted parking and to have to walk a
few blocks to your car, than to have resident parking where
nonresidents are banned from entering an area despite blocks and
blocks (or even miles) of available spaces.
-Dan
Dan Goodman
news:2261f53b.02062...@posting.google.com:
> Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>> In New York City, some car owners leave their cars parked in New Jersey.
>
> Um, where in New Jersey?
When my parents lived in Manhattan, they left their car parked on a
friend's property. Where he lived determined where it was parked.
John A. Weeks III
Salomon <danielk...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
> > In New York City, some car owners leave their cars parked in New Jersey.
>
> Um, where in New Jersey? It's far easier to find unrestricted parking
> within walking distance of rail transit in New York than in New
> Jersey, and it isn't that hard to find an unrestricted spot near where
> you need to be in most parts of Manhattan, except during the workweek
> in Midtown or the Financial District where few people live.
I do know that a fairly large number of commuters from New Jersey
that travel I-80 park on the New Jersey side of the George Washington
Bridge and take trains and busses into downtown NYC.
-john-
--
====================================================================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 jo...@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
====================================================================
Dan Goodman
news:230620020959174274%jo...@johnweeks.com:
> In article <2261f53b.02062...@posting.google.com>, Daniel
> Salomon <danielk...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>> Dan Goodman <dsg...@visi.com> wrote:
>> > In New York City, some car owners leave their cars parked in New
>> > Jersey.
>>
>> Um, where in New Jersey? It's far easier to find unrestricted
>> parking within walking distance of rail transit in New York than in
>> New Jersey, and it isn't that hard to find an unrestricted spot near
>> where you need to be in most parts of Manhattan, except during the
>> workweek in Midtown or the Financial District where few people live.
>
> I do know that a fairly large number of commuters from New Jersey
> that travel I-80 park on the New Jersey side of the George Washington
> Bridge and take trains and busses into downtown NYC.
It's my opinion that no sane person would regularly drive into Midtown or
Downtown Manhattan during rush hour. Let alone _in_ either.
American
He's obviously been to other states, and aren't like the idiotic drones who
just live here and never leave the state to know this isn't paradise and
their are many many better places.
The only problem is house, job, wife, and family here.
Plus I don't care for the bugs and poisonous critters in other parts of the
country.
in article aepbeb$8pqu7$1...@ID-53815.news.dfncis.de, grep at
grep...@hotmail.com wrote on 6/19/02 2:21 AM:
> Let's talk about Minnesota.
>
>
> I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend and I
> had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
> commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
>
>
> 1.) Finding a [system administrator's] Job in Minnesota -
>
> Good luck. I've been here for almost 7 months now and I've only worked for 4
> of those months. Most of the job's that are posted to job boards detail the
> single most *strangest* requirements for employment. Some examples are:
> "System Administrator wanted. Must also have 7+ years C++ experience
> developing e-commerce solutions.", "system administrator wanted, must also
> assume responsibilities of full time security administrator as well as
> primary Oracle administrator.", "system administrator position availible,
> must also have experience faxing, filing and 10-key".
>
> It would be annoying and frustrating if it weren't so damn funny by now.
>
> Other people have described minnesota's job postings as, `It looks like the
> people who own companies here just don't know what they're asking for in the
> realm of technology. It's almost as if they have this geeky cousin who's
> been playing with AOL for the past year, who makes these obscure job
> requirements up for his nutty CEO uncle.'
>
>
> 2.) Parking in the twin cities [in winter] -
>
> Heh, good luck. There's this really nifty law here called the "snow
> emergency" law that states you must park your car on either the odd side of
> the street or the even side of the street, depending on when they declare
> this emergency. You're supposed to know when to move your car, either by
> monitoring the TV closely for three days or by word-of-mouth from friends. I
> called the city of Minneapolis and they *told me* that they do not yet
> broadcast it on the radio. (This was as of 2001.) I asked her, "So, what if
> my girlfriend and I don't own a television? Say for instance, we just like
> to read alot? How would we know?". Her reaction, "Who dosen't own a TV?
> What's wrong with you?"
>
> 2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
> Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live. The brownstone
> brick buildings are here, the apartments from 1940, wooden floors, etc..
> it's all located here. It's also populated with hipster student-types who
> "don't like to work for the man", (i.e. have a job making them $8/hr at the
> local coffee ***** .) These types like to buy cars, then park them on the
> sidestreets in uptown. It's just like the white trash people who park them
> in thier yards? Well these lovely folks don't have yards, so they park them
> on the limited-parking side streets and work on them there. Then they invite
> thier friends from North Dakota, Iowa and Wisconsin to drive over, help them
> with thier cars and park on the side streets, so by the time they're done
> gathering enough idiots, there's a wall pf parked cars and the residents
> have to park *blocks* away from thier home.
>
> You might think i'm kidding, but i'm totlly serious. It was recently
> featured on one of the minnesota public-access shows, basically broadcasting
> the Minneapolis city government's legistature about how the uptown area's
> parking is the worst anywhere in the twin cities. They motioned to issue
> resident parking stickers, but WERE TURNED DOWN BECAUSE THE DIRECTOR OF THE
> DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION FOR MINNESOTA THOUGHT IT COST TOO MUCH AND WAS
> UNPREPARED FOR THAT QUESTION FROM THE LEGISLATOR!!!! No joke! He actually
> turned down the motion for those two reasons.
>
>
> 3.) Minnesota Drivers -
>
> Drivers in New York are the worst, from what i've heard. After them come the
> LA drivers. Now, i've experienced the LA drivers and I can tell tou this..
> MINNESOTA DRIVERS ARE *MUCH* WORSE THAN LA DRIVERS!!!!
> There's a big difference when you're doing something behind the wheel of a
> car, (let's say you're cutting someone off, you're swinging across two lanes
> of highway traffic to catch that exit you're about to miss, etc., etc.. you
> know what i mean) ..doing it with the deliberate intent and knowledge that
> what you're doing is dangerous and wrong, [this is the LA and NY way]. Then
> there's the minnesota way, which involves doing things like that because
> YOU'RE SIMPLY TOO STUPID TO KNOW ANY BETTER!!! I've had people pull out in
> front of me over 60 times so far. 40 of them had the most *suprised* look on
> thier faces when I came within inches of taking off the paint on the side of
> thier car. I've had people stopped at a stoplight, in the FAR LEFT LANE, THE
> FAR LEFT TURN LANE IN FACT, *wheel* thier car around and *park* slanted,
> angled towards the right turn lane.
> the examples could go on, and on, and on, and on, but i'll stop here and
> spare you the rest of my sad story, in the hopes that i'll get more people
> to post here.
> PERHAPS WE'LL START A MOVEMENT!!! AND WE'LL FINALLY FIX THINGS IN
> MINNESOTA!!! YEAH!!! AND WE'LL LOBBY FOR....
> Screw that, i'm going back to california.
>
>
> -grep
>
>
--
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Anti-Unix Web Site Uses Unix Software
A Web site funded by Microsoft urging businesses to avoid the Unix operating
system is itself running on Unix, in the latest example of Microsoft
benefiting
from competitive software. -- The Wall Street
Journal
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
American
no our welfare system brings them in
in article 4131249b.02061...@posting.google.com, lazy man at
lazy...@yahoo.com wrote on 6/19/02 9:42 AM:
> "grep" <grep...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<aepbeb$8pqu7$1...@ID-53815.news.dfncis.de>...
>> Let's talk about Minnesota.
>>
>>
>> I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend and I
>> had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
>> commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
>
> So when are you moving back?
>
> You know, it may seem like a shitty state, but all those reasons you
> state it sucks is really how we keep the riff raff out. It all weeds
> out the weak.
--
The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to
lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the
fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into
it in the first place.
-- Douglas Adams, on Windows 95
American
I hope no kooks find it.
typical MN naivete.
Anyway I'm not one though, but never ever give out your address, this isn't
coffee talk.
>> have to park *blocks* away from thier home.
>
> That's interesting. I lived on Garfield and 22nd for over a year and never
> had a problem parking. I never parked more than a block and a half from my
> apartment, even in winter. I never had a problem with snow emergencies
> because I knew about them and anticipate then and tries to get info in
> advance. And, I most certainly was not someone who you most carelessly
> characterize as "not wanting to work for the man."
>
> The reality of the situation hit home when I was talking to our building's
> manager. He had lived in Chicago, where parking was so bad that he had to
> take a bus to get to his car.
>
> A situation is only as bad a syou make it.
>
>> Screw that, i'm going back to california.
>
> Well, you can either whine about it, change it, or leave. I can understand
> some of your frustration, but I can also say I will not be sorry t see you
> go, if that's what you decide.
>
>> -grep
>
> BGM
>
>
--
"Capital punishment turns the state into a murderer. But imprisonment turns
the state into a gay dungeon-master."-Rev.
Jesse Jackson
Brian G. Mueller
"American" <ho...@patriot4america.com> wrote in message
news:B94034CD.F706%ho...@patriot4america.com...
> How nice of you to give out your address....
>
> I hope no kooks find it.
>
>
> typical MN naivete.
>
> Anyway I'm not one though, but never ever give out your address, this
isn't
> coffee talk.
Jim, read for comprehension, please... I said I 'lived'. Plus, if you knew
anything about the area, you would know that it would take quite a while to
find out where exactly I lived. Moron.
BGM
S. Smith
>This was hillarious, see another persons perspective on this.
>
>He's obviously been to other states, and aren't like the idiotic drones who
>just live here and never leave the state to know this isn't paradise and
>their are many many better places.
>
>The only problem is house, job, wife, and family here.
Jim, I think you would have trouble with the "house, job, wife and family"
thing wherever you go. Don't try to blame your shortcomings on the state.
gaj
enormous. For years now Californians have been able to buy wine and
liquor 24/7 anyplace -- drug stores, grocery stores and so on. Here, the
campaign to lower the cost of booze faltered and was abandoned, due to
the lobbying of the high profit liquor retailers. Why let them get a
drinkable cabernet for $6.00 at Cub or Rainbow, when we can get $11 for
the same bottle at the liquor store? And you can't buy booze on
Sundays? How blue law can you get?
Then there's the smoking. In CA, nobody can smoke in public buildings,
period. Not restaurants, not bars, nowhere. Here, it's considered a
big deal when a local community tries to limit smoking just a tad so non
smokers can have a breath of fresh air with their omelette.
Minnesota is so 1950's that it's ridiculous. But yes, you can still buy
a house for under $.5 million.
--
Glenn
Bill Seurer
> For years now Californians have been able to buy wine and
> liquor 24/7 anyplace
> period.
Now THAT'S funny! We're "1950s" because you can't buy booze but can smoke.
--
- Bill at seurer.net
http://www.seurer.net
garitaar
ball. When I first moved here 20 years ago, smoking was just as bad as in
South Carolina. Our numbers in MN are now better, but maybe it's this
Minnesota Nice pretentiousness that keeps smoking in public in existence -
easier to say no to the healthy people than say no to the smokers... go
figure.
I worked the past two years in Southern CA on a contract position for a
large telecommunications company. (Finding real wireless data/telecom work
in Minnesota is like looking for a snow-shovel in Jamaica.) Anyway, what a
wonderful place - the people are more real than here, for certain,
regardless of what the Minnesotan's have heard about Southern Californians.
The drivers in Orange County are probably the most civilized in the nation,
but elsewhere in Southern CA is also very polite and civil - unlike our
farmer rednecks in Minnesota who will refuse to create a merge gap. Best of
all is that you can go anywhere and still breath clean air. You can go to
any restaurant or even a bar or a dance-club and the air is good. Dancing
in Southern CA is a real physical workout where people have fun - no
pretentiousness - no games - very little makeup - unlike Minnesota. The
idea of a healthy lifestyle is apparently not very Minnesotan, is it? Is
beer not a leading pass-time here? That makes it about the same as Texas,
then, eh?
Okay, forget San Diego CA. We cannot compete with one single thing there
that affects people's quality of life, no matter how you cut it. However,
what we need is comparison with other places, like Seattle, Denver, and
Portland. Also, however, compare MSP with Des Moines Iowa. Let's then
create the matrix-math to show whether we are more like Portland OR or more
like Des Moines IA. Might anyone venture to guess where we would place?
"gaj" <num...@usjet.net> wrote in message
news:3D1B1FBC...@usjet.net...
Dan Goodman
news:qzrT8.36768$Uu2.6578@sccrnsc03:
> Ah, yes, the smoking. Minnesota was early on clean-air, but dropped
> the ball. When I first moved here 20 years ago, smoking was just as
> bad as in South Carolina. Our numbers in MN are now better, but maybe
> it's this Minnesota Nice pretentiousness that keeps smoking in public
> in existence - easier to say no to the healthy people than say no to
> the smokers... go figure.
>
> I worked the past two years in Southern CA on a contract position for
> a large telecommunications company. (Finding real wireless
> data/telecom work in Minnesota is like looking for a snow-shovel in
> Jamaica.) Anyway, what a wonderful place - the people are more real
> than here, for certain, regardless of what the Minnesotan's have heard
> about Southern Californians. The drivers in Orange County are probably
> the most civilized in the nation, but elsewhere in Southern CA is also
> very polite and civil - unlike our farmer rednecks in Minnesota who
> will refuse to create a merge gap. Best of all is that you can go
> anywhere and still breath clean air.
Last I heard, Los Angeles air was equivalent in side-effects to smoking
three packs of cigarettes. And San Diego was maybe a fraction better. Has
this changed?
garitaar
(I can smell cigarettes a block away or more when drivers are smoking in
their cars.) Till the early 90's, LA was bad for about a month, twice per
year. Chicago is way worse than LA in my opinion. Dallas and Atlanta
strike me as about as bad as LA, but nothing is as bad as Houston till you
get to Mexico City.
"Dan Goodman" <dsg...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns923CEDABDCF...@209.98.98.13...
Brian G. Mueller
"garitaar" <gari...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qzrT8.36768$Uu2.6578@sccrnsc03...
> Ah, yes, the smoking. Minnesota was early on clean-air, but dropped the
> ball. When I first moved here 20 years ago, smoking was just as bad as in
> South Carolina. Our numbers in MN are now better, but maybe it's this
> Minnesota Nice pretentiousness that keeps smoking in public in existence -
> easier to say no to the healthy people than say no to the smokers... go
> figure.
If we grate on you so much, you have the freedom to relocate. It's your
choice... deal with it, or move on.
> I worked the past two years in Southern CA on a contract position for a
> large telecommunications company. (Finding real wireless data/telecom
work
> in Minnesota is like looking for a snow-shovel in Jamaica.)
Yeah, well, like I said, you could always leave.
Anyway, what a
> wonderful place - the people are more real than here, for certain,
> regardless of what the Minnesotan's have heard about Southern
Californians.
This may be the most laughable statement I have heard in a long time. While
I am sure there are plenty of people in Southern California who are nice, we
happen to be as "real" here as anywhere. Just because you have a built in
chip on your shoulder about Minnesotans doesn't mean you've made an accurate
assessment about us.
> The drivers in Orange County are probably the most civilized in the
nation,
> but elsewhere in Southern CA is also very polite and civil - unlike our
> farmer rednecks in Minnesota who will refuse to create a merge gap.
Not many "farmer rednecks" use the Interstate. They mostly drive on county
highways and are quite good drivers. Now, if you want to start a discussion
about suburban moms or dads driving while on their cell phones applying
makeup or reading business briefs, you might have a better grasp on reality.
Best of
> all is that you can go anywhere and still breath clean air.
That is ludicrous and an outright lie, at least concerning the LA/San Diego
metroplex.
You can go to
> any restaurant or even a bar or a dance-club and the air is good. Dancing
> in Southern CA is a real physical workout where people have fun - no
> pretentiousness - no games - very little makeup - unlike Minnesota.
Okay, now you are making me spew cola on my keyboard. You have obviously
never been out in LA. No pretentiousness... HA!
The
> idea of a healthy lifestyle is apparently not very Minnesotan, is it? Is
> beer not a leading pass-time here? That makes it about the same as Texas,
> then, eh?
Ah, yes, beer. Terribly unhealthy beverage, huh? Not at all healthy like,
oh say, Tab... or diet cola...
> Okay, forget San Diego CA. We cannot compete with one single thing there
> that affects people's quality of life, no matter how you cut it.
Nice place to visit. Probably a nice place to live, too. No snow, though.
No decent hunting or freshwater fishing. No Boundary Waters canoeing. Nice
view. Schools? Well, it is California, after all.
However,
> what we need is comparison with other places, like Seattle, Denver, and
> Portland. Also, however, compare MSP with Des Moines Iowa. Let's then
> create the matrix-math to show whether we are more like Portland OR or
more
> like Des Moines IA. Might anyone venture to guess where we would place?
Might anyone who lives here really give a shit?
BGM
American
I guess I learned my lesson, thanks for teaching me never to try and help or
be nice to hypocrites like you.
Sincerely,
The American
in article uhln673...@corp.supernews.com, Brian G. Mueller at
choirbr...@yahoo.com wrote on 6/27/02 4:50 AM:
--
Einstein once said that insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting
a different result every time.
First step in troubleshooting a Windows box: do the same thing the same way
you did it the first time to see whether it acts the same the second time.
American
Those were the things KEEPING me here, not my problems.
but nice try though, whats your excuse?
in article 1d6mhucgq71rsdfum...@4ax.com, S. Smith at
scott...@visi.com wrote on 6/27/02 8:58 AM:
--
"I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in poverty.
Actually, I'm more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are apparently doing
quite well for themselves." -- Jerry Garcia (Grateful Dead)
American
top...
someone will talk about twinkies and the creme filling and you'll be there
with a lecture.
in article uht89ml...@corp.supernews.com, Brian G. Mueller at
choirbr...@yahoo.com wrote on 6/30/02 1:25 AM:
>
> "garitaar" <gari...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:qzrT8.36768$Uu2.6578@sccrnsc03...
>> Ah, yes, the smoking. Minnesota was early on clean-air, but dropped the
>> ball. When I first moved here 20 years ago, smoking was just as bad as in
>> South Carolina. Our numbers in MN are now better, but maybe it's this
>> Minnesota Nice pretentiousness that keeps smoking in public in existence -
>> easier to say no to the healthy people than say no to the smokers... go
>> figure.
>
> If we grate on you so much, you have the freedom to relocate. It's your
> choice... deal with it, or move on.
>
--
Ask hardened left wingers the following question. At night you are walking
down a street that is dark, and 3 suspicious looking youths are walking
towards you. They all look suspicious and you happen to have a cell phone
with which can make one call. Do they call the cops or the ACLU?
Bill Seurer
> Ask hardened left wingers the following question. At night you are walking
> down a street that is dark, and 3 suspicious looking youths are walking
> towards you. They all look suspicious and you happen to have a cell phone
> with which can make one call. Do they call the cops or the ACLU?
Hmmm, I'm not a hardened left winger but I'll bite. Why would they call
the cops or the ACLU? Am I armed and expected to kill them or
something?
garitaar
feeling what their Grandparents felt. Minnesotans have changed for the
negative. So it goes.
gari...@hotmail.com
"Brian G. Mueller" <choirbr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uht89ml...@corp.supernews.com...
garitaar
Minnesota trial against the cigarette industry. I think that this was one
of them. By advertising an extremely low tar level, they could compare tar
levels with ambient levels of city living, thereby reducing the perceived
comparative harm from first-hand smoke. The falsehood in the propaganda
included that those low tar levels were not achievable for an actual smoker
because a person would not inhale slowly enough for the filter to work as it
did on the lab machine. Also, the person has wet lips that seal the sides
of the filter, while the lab machine allowed the contribution of air pulled
through the sides of the filter. The other carcinogens and particulate
components of the smoke were not taken into account when the comparison to
ambient city tar levels was made.
gari...@hotmail.com
"garitaar" <gari...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_rwT8.364360$cQ3.23682@sccrnsc01...
Brian G. Mueller
> Presently, probably not. Blissfully practicing Minnesota Nice, but rarely
> feeling what their Grandparents felt. Minnesotans have changed for the
> negative. So it goes.
> gari...@hotmail.com
Ah, well. You are entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong... ;-)
BGM
garitaar
While
> I am sure there are plenty of people in Southern California who are nice,
we
> happen to be as "real" here as anywhere. Just because you have a built in
> chip on your shoulder about Minnesotans doesn't mean you've made an
accurate
> assessment about us.
I am differentiating between Real and Nice. The California natives I met
were about one in five people. They do not pretend to be nice, and when
they are being nice, they really mean it. When Minnesotans are nice, it's
still your gamble whether to put any weight or faith in them. Minnesota is
not alone in this. My step-daughter just moved with her father from Reston
VA to a suburb in Michigan. She found people in Virginia to be more
ginuine. Maybe that is the word I should have used initially - ginuine.
This is not to say that Californian's do not participate in artificiality -
just look at the plastic-surgery. However, every morning at a Starbucks,
one can see the dramatic differences in people's interactions, all around
the nation. Californians are more like people in Georgia or South Carolina
in that they will talk with you and are really interested in a discussion.
In Minesota, people think you are strange if you even say hello. In
Minnesota, people are not likely to open up. When they do talk, they may or
may not be telling you the truth - they may just be telling you what they
tell everyone so they can go back to their secluded and introverted
existance.
By the way, I have no chip on my sholder. as you say. I have lived in
Minnesota for 20 years, though I have traveled some during that time. I
think I have a rather good picture of the way people interact in different
parts of the county.
> > The drivers in Orange County are probably the most civilized in the
> nation,
> > but elsewhere in Southern CA is also very polite and civil - unlike our
> > farmer rednecks in Minnesota who will refuse to create a merge gap.
>
> Not many "farmer rednecks" use the Interstate. They mostly drive on
county
> highways and are quite good drivers. Now, if you want to start a
discussion
> about suburban moms or dads driving while on their cell phones applying
> makeup or reading business briefs, you might have a better grasp on
reality.
Okay, you are right. I should not call them farmers. I like farmers.
These people are not "doing" anything, though. They are refusing to even
look at the people around them. It is funny, really - they in their cars,
thinking that they are somehow isolated from what is going on around them -
just the way they hope to live out their lives.
> Best of
> > all is that you can go anywhere and still breath clean air.
>
> That is ludicrous and an outright lie, at least concerning the LA/San
Diego
> metroplex.
Been there - done that - it is true - get over it.
> You can go to
> > any restaurant or even a bar or a dance-club and the air is good.
Dancing
> > in Southern CA is a real physical workout where people have fun - no
> > pretentiousness - no games - very little makeup - unlike Minnesota.
>
> Okay, now you are making me spew cola on my keyboard. You have obviously
> never been out in LA. No pretentiousness... HA!
I have been out in SDiego & LA which are a lot more like being out in Miami
in that poeple are there to dance and have fun. I have tried some places in
MSP but mostly what I see are overly made-up women sitting, smoking,
pretending that they are better than the other overly made-up women,
sitting, smoking.
> The
> > idea of a healthy lifestyle is apparently not very Minnesotan, is it?
Is
> > beer not a leading pass-time here? That makes it about the same as
Texas,
> > then, eh?
>
> Ah, yes, beer. Terribly unhealthy beverage, huh? Not at all healthy
like,
> oh say, Tab... or diet cola...
Where did that come from? I cannot really answer as I have no data nor
interest in "soft-drinks" either. This misses the point that Minnesotans
might try to be a little more health minded.
> > Okay, forget San Diego CA. We cannot compete with one single thing
there
> > that affects people's quality of life, no matter how you cut it.
>
> Nice place to visit. Probably a nice place to live, too. No snow,
though.
> No decent hunting or freshwater fishing. No Boundary Waters canoeing.
Nice
> view. Schools? Well, it is California, after all.
Sorry, I know nothing about hunting. Saltwater fishing & sailing is nice,
though - you should give it a try. Schools there are diverse in population,
but some are stressed. There are schools there that are just as good as
Eagan / Eden Prairie / Edina / Minnetonka schools. They also have their
Blake types. This is a discussion all of its own. :)
> BGM
Lutsen Lumberjack
> Presently, probably not. Blissfully practicing Minnesota Nice, but rarely
> feeling what their Grandparents felt. Minnesotans have changed for the
> negative. So it goes.
> gari...@hotmail.com
has become more and more smug and isolated during the past 7 or 10
years while much of the rest of the nation has become more
adventurous, travelsome and socially aware.
By the way, thank you very much for your meaningful commentaries to
this newsgroup!
Lutsen Lumberjack
> I am sure there are plenty of people in Southern California who are nice, we
> happen to be as "real" here as anywhere. Just because you have a built in
> chip on your shoulder about Minnesotans doesn't mean you've made an accurate
> assessment about us.
I've often felt that if Freud analyzed Minnesota Nice, he would say:
"When a social group boasts of its own pleasant demeanour, it
symbolizes a total lack of self-confidence and resentment of
outsiders."
StShaffer
>were about one in five people.
Well, there you have it. One in five Minnesotans are the nice ones, and
therefore the real ones. The others are asshole immigrants who came from other
states with bad attitudes. Avoid them.
Wayne Marsh
Extending your premise, we conclude that four out of five people in the
country are rootless assholes wandering from state to state, their bad
attitudes spreading discontent and ill-feeling wherever they roam. That
would explain many of our problems.
That reminds me of a tidbit I saw on TV recently -- veracity unknown. The
film version of "The Grapes of Wrath" was not allowed to be shown in the
USSR, because the most vivid impression that its viewers took away with
them was that, in the USA, even the most wretched of landless, wandering
peasants had automobiles to carry them around.
Wayne Marsh Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
wayne...@mac.com
Mike
grep <grep...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<aepbeb$8pqu7$1...@ID-53815.news.dfncis.de>...
> Let's talk about Minnesota.
>
>
> I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco. My girlfriend
and I
> had figured that we'd had enough of the bay area's high rent and horrible
> commute times. WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
>
>
> have to park *blocks* away from thier home.
>
> Screw that, i'm going back to california.
>
>
> -grep
>
>
NEED I SAY MORE??
ANARCHIST
www.geocities.com/dkr54oval
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John A. Weeks III
> > Let's talk about Minnesota.
> > I moved here in the tail end of Nov. from San Francisco.
Well, that says it all. People from SFO are generally kind of
wierd to start with, so I wouldn't be surprised that you are having
trouble adjusting to Minnesota, where everyone is above average.
> > WE REALLY SHOULDA STAYED THERE, AND HERE'S WHY:
I fully agree.
> > 1.) Finding a [system administrator's] Job in Minnesota -
> > Good luck. I've been here for almost 7 months now and I've only worked
> > for 4 of those months. Most of the job's that are posted to job boards
> > detail the single most *strangest* requirements for employment.
You should get a head hunter to help you through the adjustment.
Here in Minnesota, job descriptions are wish lists, not a list of
requirements. Usually, you need to have all of the qualifications
to apply for a job. Here in the midwest, you simply need only one
of the qualifications, and the employeer picks who they think is
best. It is a different system than what you are likely use to.
> > 2.) Parking in the twin cities [in winter] -
> >
> > Heh, good luck. There's this really nifty law here called the "snow
> > emergency" law that states you must park your car on either the odd side
> of
> > the street or the even side of the street, depending on when they declare
> > this emergency. You're supposed to know when to move your car, either by
> > monitoring the TV closely
They have the news on at 5PM, 6PM, 9PM, and 10PM, plus the news is
broadcast on the radio, and WCCO carries wall to wall weather when
things are happening outside. Afterall, St. Paul does it the same
way, so it is a standard around here.
> > 2a.) Parking *anywhere* in the `uptown' area in Minneapolis -
> > Once again, good luck. This is the "trendy" place to live. The brownstone
> > brick buildings are here, the apartments from 1940, wooden floors, etc..
> > it's all located here.
All inner cities have parking problems. Especially when you are in the
slummy areas. Why not check out nice parts of town, like Burnsville
or Eagan? No parking problems there--the city planners require
sufficent parking before they issue building permits.
> > 3.) Minnesota Drivers -
> > MINNESOTA DRIVERS ARE *MUCH* WORSE THAN LA DRIVERS!!!!
> > YOU'RE SIMPLY TOO STUPID TO KNOW ANY BETTER!!! I've had people pull
> > out in front of me over 60 times so far. 40 of them had the most
> > *suprised* look on thier faces when I came within inches of taking
> > off the paint on the side of thier car.
Of course they looked surprised...you don't know the system of
driving around here, and you nearly killed them. You see, we have
this thing called "Minnesota Nice". It applies to driving in that
you are supposed to let other people go first, even if you have
the normal right-of-way, and they are trying to do something
illegal or stupid. If you cannot adjust to this way of thinking,
then it is you who are the dangerous one, and you should take
the bus rather than endangering those of us who use the highways.
-john-
--
====================================================================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 jo...@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
====================================================================
American
to honor the guys rights? They're basically worthless.
in article 3D1EBD8D...@seurer.net, Bill Seurer at Bi...@seurer.net
wrote on 6/30/02 3:13 AM:
--
No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights
of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain
him. -- Thomas Jefferson to Francis Gilmer, 1816.
Cylise
<jo...@johnweeks.com> wrote:
>
>They have the news on at 5PM, 6PM, 9PM, and 10PM, plus the news is
>broadcast on the radio, and WCCO carries wall to wall weather when
>things are happening outside. Afterall, St. Paul does it the same
>way, so it is a standard around here.
>
Nope, St. Paul is much saner. They have day plow streets (almost all
streets) and specifically marked (and very thoroughly marked at that)
night plow sides of streets, so the people who worked all day have
plenty of parking when they come home and the plow crews have some
relief. As soon as a street is plowed on both sides, you can park
anywhere, regardless of hour, odd or even day, or side of street.
Bradley Kowal
> 3.) Minnesota Drivers
I spent 18 years living in minnehell. Been gone 24 years. Wish I had left 10 years earlier, but at least I didn't hang around another 10 years. The most unfriendly place I've ever been. I don't care what the problem is. I'm even willing to say it was me, I was the problem. I will punish myself and banish myself from minnehell for eternity. Works for me. Just wish those with mn plates would stay west of the Mississippi.
hey joe
and it feels good to be home.