EOS-1D C

[Vincent Olivier]

Hi guys,

If that is not too harsh, I would like to start a discussion on the hackability of dual-DIGIC/DryOS EOS cameras like the upcoming EOS-1D. I know it is somewhat behind the fact that the 7D never got an ML port. I wanted to know if I'm the only one interested in having ML ported to the EOS-1D C and also if it is reasonable to organize an effort to make it happen given the difficulties that were encountered with the 7D and the very high price point of the camera (preventing an easy financing of units for ML core developers)…

Thanks,

Vincent

[Giovanni Di Cello]

Boy, the 1D-X will be on sale by June and you're starting to discuss about nothing?
There are no firmware updates to be analized and until somebody has the camera in his own hands i guess we cold just speculate and nothing more.
No offense but sometimes you guys go faster than the actual time.

[Vincent Olivier]

No offense, but:

1. If you don't like what I say, just ignore it; If "speculations"  and "going faster than the actual times" are to be banned from the mailing list, make it a list rule through a democratic process;
2. I'm also talking about a product (the 7D) that has been out for 4 years;
3. If dual-chip is the future of the cinema EOS line, I think it's high times we start talking about whether ML will be part of that future or not;

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[unity2k]

Speculation need not be a rule posted here, it is common sense that what cannot be worked on, cannot yet be known. Why shouldn't we then plan on how we'll finance the 5D Mark VII in 2021? Seriously, simple common sense suggests that all things are possible; when the reality of the situation is manifest in the here-and-now.

Magic Lantern is part of the right now and the immediate future. I'm certain many more people will be shooting 1080p for the foreseeable future as camera's in the $15,000 range are an entirely different market than the one where those of us who have spent under $2500 are trying to get the most out of gear, as for me, I'm in the T2i $550 camp and cannot see 4k as part of my toolkit for the next 2 years in light of the recent camera announcements.

Developers: I for one am quite happy for your attention on making ML better today.

Regarding 

On Friday, April 13, 2012 9:05:39 AM UTC-7, Vincent Olivier wrote:

No offense, but:

1. If you don't like what I say, just ignore it; If "speculations"  and "going faster than the actual times" are to be banned from the mailing list, make it a list rule through a democratic process;
2. I'm also talking about a product (the 7D) that has been out for 4 years;
3. If dual-chip is the future of the cinema EOS line, I think it's high times we start talking about whether ML will be part of that future or not;

On 2012-04-13, at 11:51 AM, Giovanni Di Cello wrote:

Boy, the 1D-X will be on sale by June and you're starting to discuss about nothing?
There are no firmware updates to be analized and until somebody has the camera in his own hands i guess we cold just speculate and nothing more.
No offense but sometimes you guys go faster than the actual time.

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[Wesley Clouden]

I have 2 of them that I will pull back in-house cause I'm will replace them with fs100 in June and yes it's about cash 

I line 7d more cause od sensor size 

But I will commit I been working on 

Ml for 7d based off the last wiki update and have get back one form members 

With solid results and second processor 

IPhone 3Gs dualboot  android / 5.1.2ios beta

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CIO/ Media Content Producer

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InYoFaceFilm.com, mogulus.com, Twitter.com

Skype //  Aol // Msn // Yahoo ID: Nappiee007

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[Giovanni Di Cello]

Vincent, i guess unity2k pointed out the "weirdness" of your post quite well.
You can speak about whatever you want, no one is going to stop you from doing that.
The only problem is you're speaking of something announced yesterday, probably at prototype state and still not in production (not to talk about retail and such) .
It's common sense to focus on the present, obviously leaving space to development for the stuff that's upcoming.
As for the 7D, i guess you know what the problem is with the double digic and i know developers have tried all their best to solve this big problem.
The fact is we don't need to talk about the 1D-C because there's nothing to talk about right now:not a single firmware update, not a single thing about when it will be available for sale, not a thing about any ML capability.
Efforts are being made to port something on the 5DIII but as far as i understood a firmware update is the minimum requirement to start analyzing, not even developing.
You're rushing and that's a fact. Then, if we want to speculate about nothing we could fantasize and let our minds go wild, for what it's worth.
The only thing we can do is to help wit the current supported cameras, suggest something cool that can be implemented and that would be useful and contribute to the analysis of the firmware and development.
I'm sure there are loads of forum that can fullfil your need of speaking about things we don't have yet in our hands.
Still, no offense meant, just a thought since we are trying to keep the discussions down to earth and as practical as we can.
;)

[Vincent Olivier]

On 2012-04-13, at 1:17 PM, Giovanni Di Cello wrote:

> You're rushing and that's a fact.

I have contributed to ML as developer, man. If I'm rushing someone, it's myself.

Seriously. Whatever.

But through the patronizing attitude, you answered my question anyways: Canon is officially supporting most the of the EOS native firmware video features that are currently in ML (and then some) with the cinema line and I'm better off developing hacks for the remaining features that I want (continuous video autofocus and fundamental parameter scripting, for instance) that rely only on things that are future proof like USB/PTP, and not ML (that, if I'm to believe what you say, will not seriously consider moving on to supporting multi-DIGIC architectures, like the 7D, like the 1D, for which, BTW, I would have been glad to help with, like I did for the T3i). I have a dozen of T3i units with ML and unless the T4i brings cinema-like features (and I'm not being harassed for talking about it when it's announced), the next step for me is the EOS-1D C.

So thanks, anyways: as far as I'm concerned I got what I wanted from this thread.

Vincent

[Giovanni Di Cello]

I still can't see your point and i can't see how you got what you wanted in spite your statement.
We still don't know a damn thing about the 1D-C except for those things that were announced yesterday.
So, what are we talking about? The 1D-C itself or its hackability? I guess we can't comment on the latter but lots of you hope it'll be tweakable somehow.

[arm.indy]

Hi,

again, the problem with the 7D is explain -on the wiki-
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/7D_support
as well as what has been found.

it is not impossible, it requires
1- deep ARM skill
2- reverse engineering skill
3- and time

anyone to help me ?

Indy

["Sztupák Sz. Zsolt"]

2012.04.13. 23:19 keltez�ssel, arm.indy �rta:

> Hi,
>
> again, the problem with the 7D is explain -on the wiki-
> http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/7D_support
> as well as what has been found.
>
> it is not impossible, it requires
> 1- deep ARM skill
> 2- reverse engineering skill
> 3- and time

and probably
4- an actual 7D

SztupY

[arm.indy]

no, first things to understand are
1- how is booting the 7d (synchro between slave and master DryOS
instances)
2- how to hijack execution

be studying the 7d code:
slave_updater, master_updater, bootcode, master_code and slave_code

then code and tests will be required.

Indy

[Vincent Olivier]

Hi Indy,

It was exactly my question: should we see a additional motive to work
on the existing dual-DIGIC cameras (7D and such) now that we
understand (and this is no speculation) that Canon's intention is to
base its video-oriented EOS products on this architecture?

I can get myself whatever camera we decide to base this effort on and
I can put time on this. But my ARM reverse-engineering skills are not
deep, to say the least. Until I can contribute given my skillset, or
I'm helped into it, I'll stick to what I know.

Vincent

[Francis Danforth]

If Canon's intention was truly to move all video-oriented products in this direction, then the 5dmkIII would have dual-DIGIC processors. It is clear that the 5dmkII had found it's place in the amateur and professional video market over the past few years and they acknowledged this with some of the features in the mk III. Seeing as the 7d sits below the 5d in the product line, why didn't they include dual-DIGIC in the MkIII? Who knows, maybe they want it to be ML hackable. A hackable $3000 camera is certainly going to sell better than a $10000-$30000 camera that is substantially more difficult to hack (and afford).

And honestly if you are spending $10k-30k you should get every bit of camera you want right out of the box. I guess I haven't researched that much because they are all clearly out of my price range/interest level but are there no cinema cameras out there that offer the most important tools ML offers to filmmakers (audio meters, zebra striping, histogram, waveform monitor, vector scope, variable framerate, etc)? Are the EF lenses or the small form that much of a selling factor?

If I was in the market for one of these products my first question would not be "is ML able to be ported?,"  rather "does it need ML?" If the answer to the latter is yes I probably would not drop $10k-$30k on it and just wait for technology and the market to catch up with my "needs." I don't think that question should be answerable at this point given that no one who doesn't work for Canon has even looked at one of these cameras until at least a week from now.

That said, by all means work to port to the 7d. That is an excellent cause and it might just shed some light on future ports.

Francis

[Vincent Olivier]

Well, actually, from what I gather, the 5D3 seem to further prove my
point as it's pretty much universally recognized as disappointing as a
successor to the 5D2 by video users. Specifically because, and this is
pretty obvious from the nomenclature now, Canon's target market with
the EOS cinema line are the heavy users of the video functions from
the "legacy" EOS cameras, and is refocusing its non-cinema EOS line
for still photography (what use do you have for 61-point AF in
video?).

And, honestly, even if I pay 30k$ for anything that acts, talks and
walks like a computer, I want to be able to program it. At the risk
bricking it.

v

[Giovanni Di Cello]

I don't really think Canon releases a product so it will be ML capable and thus selling more than one that isn't.
This is plain stupid and against the rules of the market.
Canon doesn't offer certain things because probably there's no other competitor offering that thing in the same range price or similar product so why bother giving you more now when they can release a model in 3 years which will be better?
One thing i'm sure of is that Canon hasn't made the 5DIII like this so it can be hackable but because they thought it was the right camera for that price for a certain type of buyers.
You can like it or not, it doesn't change the fact that rarely everybody's needs are satisfied, especially in the "low" end of the market.
I still can't get your point, Vincent. You started the thread about the 1D-C and now we're speaking of a completely different thing. Again, you're proving my point.
And no, one that buys a 30K$ product doesn't always want to risk briking it, you know, we all don't find money under the floor tiles.
;)

[Pelican]

I still have a 7D and I'm ready to try any code on it.

-----Original Message-----
From: ml-d...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ml-d...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of "Sztupák Sz. Zsolt"
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 11:22 PM
To: ml-d...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ML] 7d and ML

--

[arm.indy]

I do have a 7D too.
we need reverse engineering the dual boot process and how to hijack
execution.
-> what is required is deeply analysing ARM booting process with 2
digics

and if we succeed in this step,
ML have to be -rewritten- to work on dual digic

Indy

> --http://magiclantern.wikia.com/