Connections between Slavonic and ancient Macedonians
akritas
that they are descents from the ancient Macedonians.
Three from the most favour writers that used from the Slavonic origin
Macedonians are the
-Karakasidou
-Danforth
-Borza
All the above writers were specefic as about the origin of the today
Slavonic origin Macedonians.Are Slavs that came in the Balkans 800
years after the kingship of the ancient Macedonians
Here some quote from them:
Borza in "Macedonian Rendux"
Quote:
The Macedonian kingdom was absorbed into the Roman Empire, never to
recover its independence. During medieval and modem times, Macedonia
was known as a Balkan region inhabited by ethnic Greeks, Albanians,
Vlachs, Serbs, Bulgarians, Jews, and Turks.
Quote:
Modern Slavs, both Bulgarians and Macedonians, cannot establish a link
with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the
demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom.
Quote:
On the other hand, the Macedonians are a newly emergent people in
search of a past to help legitimize their precarious present as they
attempt to establish their singular identity in a Slavic world
dominated historically by Serbs and Bulgarians.
==================================================
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Loring Danforth in his known book (page 56) mention clearly
Quote:
"the history of the construction of a macedonian national identity does
not begin with alexander the great in the fourth century b.c. or with
saints cyril and methodius in the ninth century a.d., as Macedonian
nationalist historians often claim. nor does it begin with tito and the
establishment of the people's republic of macedonia in 1944 as greek
nationalist historians would have us believe.
Quote:
It begins in the nineteenth century with the first expressions of
macedonian ethnic nationalism on the part of a small number of
intellectuals in places like thessaloniki, belgrade, sophia, and
st.petersburg. this period marks the beginning of the process of
"imagining" a macedonian national community, the beginning of the
construction of a macedonian national identity and culture"
==================================================
=====================================
Karakasidou in Fields of Wheat, Hills of Blood mention
Quote:
However the polemics round Macedonia acquired new critical dimensions
afterwards the establishment of Yugoslavian Socialist Republic of
Macedonia, to1944. The Yugoslavian Macedonians and their successors of
FYROM undertaken their own construction of nation, manufacturing
separate fables of collective origin and claims from Great Alexandros
(Apostolski et al 1969, Kolisevski 1959)
Quote:
In the beginning of 20th century, Greece and Bulgaria colided for the
region of Macedonia. Today, in the threshold 21th century the axis of
competition was shifted with the constitution of FYROM in independent
government owned entity, which includes Slavs, Albanians, Muslim Turks
and Rom
==================================================
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So dear Slavonic origin inhibants of the Macedonia you are just a
people that came in the Balkans at the 6th century and your supposing
connection is just a fabrication of your new founding State.
Or and the Borza,Danforth and Karakasidou are part of the Greek
propagnda as you learned dear Slavonic origin inhibants of the
Macedonia?
Cheers!!!
ogjo...@gmail.com
I could not understand a single point you were trying to make in your
post due to your obvious inability to either
a) write in english;
b) complete a coherent thought in greek (which i presume is your native
language) and then translate it into english.
Making an effort though, I was able to surmise that your sad effort at
a flaming post, aims at discrediting the macedonian national identity
(surprise.)
However, I now suspect that your incompetence extends beyond writing
and into the realm of reading comprehension as well. Even though you
cite these passages out of context, and omit other articles (especially
from Danforth who has written _extensively_ on the topic of Greek
opression over the MACEDONIAN minority in northern Greece,) you fail to
realize that even you yourself are making a point in favor of the
Macedonian side of the debate.
Namely, the only thing that Borza states in the text is that the Slavic
tribes entered the Macedonian kingdom after its demise and when it was
no longer Macedonia as it was remembered B.C. Nobody here is really
prepared to argue with you on that point, as we are all aware of basic
history. We are prepared though, to argue that when the Slavs settled
the region they DID NOT inhabit a territory that was deserted
(ludicrous to think that whatever inhabitants that were there just
simply vanished prior to the slavic invasion,) namely they assimilated
whatever native populus was in the region, i.e. in the case of the
Slavic tribes that settled in Macedonia, they assimilated the
descendants of the Ancient Macedonians. Hence, the Macedonian people
today, an amalgam with traces of both Slavic and Ancient Macedonian
origin.
Danforth, on the other hand just solidifies another argument that is
apparent to anyone who has invested even trace amount of time in
reading Balkan history. Needless to say that the Ottoman Empire
occupied MACEDONIA for five centuries prior to the 19xx. Hence, it is
only natural to think of the recent struggle for national idenity as
emerging in the 19th centiry (18xx), when with the demise of the
Ottoman Empire, Macedonia's friendly neighbours sought to appropriate
what was recently Ottoman territory for themselves. Hence, Balkan wars
I and II and we are all aware of the unfortunate outcome of both.
Note, Danforth clearly states that the origins of the country that is
Macedonia today did not start with Tito in the 1940s/50s, which is the
main argument that many of your compatriots are so quick to point out.
-O
akritas
Yes the Greek language is my native as also Greece is my residence .I
am not diaspora Greek.So apologize for my hard English.
You mention for the known amalgamation theory.Why did the Macedonians
wait 100 yeras to be amalgamated with the Slavs ? The Greek were always
there , speaking the same language.Of course you know the Borza,Badian
e.t.c historian that speak for non-Greekness of the ancient Macedonians
but agree that them Hellenized in 500 BC!!
Other serious problems with this theory remain. For example, an
important methodological error is the extension in place and time of a
locally restricted group of people, i.e., Slavomacedonians, and how
difficult it is to extrapolate from a relatively small area (People's
Republic of Macedonia) the entire historic Macedonia through the
centuries, formulating population genetics theories without those being
affected by historic events
localities, and types of people involved
Interestingly, your Historians admit the prevalence of Hellenism in
certain areas of Macedonia at certain times, but they do not account
for I what subsequently happened to the Hellenic population.
Finally I am from the Greek that they beleive that your people lived
before 1945 , identified as Christians and speak and write the so
called Slavmacedonian dialect since they learned the written script
from Greek monks. The issue of your state is other matter and is not
consern this thread.