Innocent Bystander
Denise
Innocent Bystander
He had no way of knowing
this would be his final evening
He was an innocent bystander
doing a good deed for a friend
When to his shock and surprise
rose an evil that was so terrible
His only defense was his inner strength
and intense struggle for survival
not only for himself, but for her
He was overcome by the horror
of an overpowering force
He had no time remaining
to say goodbye to his friends
He was an innocent bystander
doing a good deed for a friend
Denise Fletcher
Copyright, 1996
Your comments welcome!
Denise
Brenda S. Caldwell wrote:
>
> Whoah, Denise! That one's intense!!! What was it about, I mean how
> did the guy die??
>
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> Hell hath no fury like
>
> a woman scorned. . .@<-<-
>
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Brenda,
I wrote and dedicated my poem, Innocent Bystander for Ron Goldman
and Nicole Brown Simpson...sorry I didn't make it clear the first
time.
Denise
Jensen
In article <32C725...@hotmail.com>, Denise <flet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>Your comments welcome!
Hi Denise,
The name of misc.writing has misled a number of people before you into
making a similar mistake. We do not encourage, endorse or otherwise
enjoy posting work here. I've trimmed the newsgroups and re-directed
follow-ups to misc.writing.
If you'd like to find out what misc.writing is all about, I encourage
you to visit the misc.writing home page at
http://www.wimsey.com/~sdkwok/mwrit.html . Here you will find the FAQs,
posting guidelines and a bunch of other writing related links.
Cheers,
jen
Brenda S. Caldwell
Wendy Chatley Green
a...@peavine.com (Jensen) wrote:
:In article <32C725...@hotmail.com>, Denise <flet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
:
:
:If you'd like to find out what misc.writing is all about, I encourage
:you to visit the misc.writing home page at
:http://www.wimsey.com/~sdkwok/mwrit.html . Here you will find the FAQs,
:posting guidelines and a bunch of other writing related links.
It's http://vanbc.wimsey.com/~sdkowk/mwrit.html thanks to an ISP name
change. Also, Stephanie is planning to move the page soon but the new address
will be announced here first.
-
Wendy Chatley Green -- wcg...@cris.com
Wendy Chatley Green
wcg...@cris.com (Wendy Chatley Green) wrote:
This is a repost of a cancelled message; in the first one, I mispelled "kwok"
then jen informed me that either address will work.
:a...@peavine.com (Jensen) wrote:
:
::In article <32C725...@hotmail.com>, Denise <flet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
::
::
::If you'd like to find out what misc.writing is all about, I encourage
::you to visit the misc.writing home page at
::http://www.wimsey.com/~sdkwok/mwrit.html . Here you will find the FAQs,
::posting guidelines and a bunch of other writing related links.
:
: Or http://vanbc.wimsey.com/~sdkwok/mwrit.html thanks to an ISP name
Melanie
On Sun, 29 Dec 1996 20:15:53 -0600, Denise <flet...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Hi Denise:
Is this about Ron Goldman?
Very poignant.
G.l. Morrison
Denise? Trite, trite.
> >He was an innocent bystander
> >doing a good deed for a friend
he was returning her glasses not performing CPR.
> >When to his shock and surprise
what should appear but a minature sleigh and eight tiny reindeer
> >rose an evil that was so terrible
Not mygawd, a terrible evil... no, a so terrible evil. What kind of play
on words, metaphor or poetic devise did you intend here? A banana that was
so yellow...
> >His only defense was his inner strength
> >and intense struggle for survival
not very helpful against a knife-weilding maniac -- I think "i didn't
sleep with her, man" or "I won't tell anyone I saw you" might have been
more effective than intense inner survivalist struggling strength.
> >not only for himself, but for her
What was she doing? Being innerly strong for him too. Or just bleeding
selfishly?
> >He was overcome by the horror
> >of an overpowering force
I saw a little of it on television --it didn't look like horror that
overpowered him at all.
> >He had no time remaining
> >to say goodbye to his friends
Or to pay off his visa or clean out his closet or return his library books
or say where he'd buried the money (this is a poem about D.B. Cooper isn't
it?)
> >He was an innocent bystander
> >doing a good deed for a friend
Not like the b*tch who got him into all the trouble; this implies she
was an uninnocent forestander
> >
> >Denise Fletcher
> >Copyright, 1996
> >
> >Your comments welcome!
Thank you for asking for my comments. I hope you enjoyed them. Please
don't respond with stories of your personal tribulations and how they
qualify you to overidentify with celebrity victims. I (I'll beat you to
the confessional punch) did live with a psycho batterer for a few years
before I grasped my last grain of sanity and fled. There were attempts on
my life, both tragic and comic. Private investigators who assisted in
stalking us for about a year. Many cities, a couple of states and a name
change. I don't use any of it as an excuse for writing bad poetry.
On Mon, 30 Dec 1996, Melanie wrote:
>
> Hi Denise:
> Is this about Ron Goldman?
> Very poignant.
Melanie, shame on you. I'll bet you buy Rod Mckuen.
And the rest of you (yes, you!):
lest you chastise me for cruelty "--oh, you might say something that could
"discourage" someone from writing", let me remind you what I told a friend
whose college professor had discouraged her from an illustrious writing
career: Writers can't be discouraged from writing, that's what
distinguishs them from other people with pencils.
G.L. (I still leak a little from all those polite empty rejection letters
I wrote in the editor years) Morrison
Denise
Just cuz you think it stinks, doesn't mean everyone does.
You are entitled to your opinion.
G.l. Morrison
Of course, by now, you should all know the real reason I insult everyone I
meet is that I can't stand for very much time to pass without a thread
arising with MY name in it. Who's next? (C'mon, I'll take you all with one
paw tied behind my back. C'mon, put 'em up--said the Cowardly Lion in
the W.O.O.)
G.L. (I think I've got this initial thing down)
PS who is this G.I. person and why does she keep pissing everyone off?
G.l. Morrison
On Mon, 30 Dec 1996, Denise wrote:
> Just cuz you think it stinks, doesn't mean everyone does.
> You are entitled to your opinion.
I have to confess your Mother was right. Meanness is motivated by
jealousy. They won't let me post MY poetry. It doesn't seem fair you get
to post yours.
contritely,
G.L.
PS I'd be happy to let you ridicule my poetry publicly if it would make
you feel any better.
PPS I thought your poetry had a questionable theme and took no risks
in language or imagery. You relied on cultural truisms. Stinks? I think I
said trite not stinks. Stinks is harsh. Personally, I resent writing that
attempts to manipulate emotionally by theme rather than thru hard-won
artistic devises. You hit my button. I hit you back. I meant to respond
with humor. Ok, vicious humor. If you are under 20, I owe you an apology.
If not take a raincheck, I'm sure to owe you an apology sometime in the
future.
Wendy Chatley Green
Allow me to point out that the denizens of misc.writing ask that work
(both poetry and prose) not be posted in this newsgroup. If you want feedback,
criticism, praise, whatever--post it to rec.arts.prose or rec.arts.poetry and
then tell us where to look.
IMO, e-mail is a better vehicle for criticism of work.
KATYMUNGER
This kind of crap is EXACTLY why people aren't supposed to post their
works here. Having violated the rule once, take it somewhere else. Be as
supportive as you like... on the right newsgroup PLEASE.
A person who shall remain nameless objected to someone else's opinion of a
poem posted here in error since this newsgroup is not for posting work:
>>Just cuz you think it stinks, doesn't mean everyone does.
You are entitled to your opinion.<<
Katy Munger
Your guests will never know....
KATYMUNGER
Dream on-- you're not that important. Now you take the critiquing and
petty snipping off this board, too. PLEASE. If we wanted to hear this
kind of crap, we'd all be enrolled in creative writing classes at our
local junior colleges. Your other comments re writing have been more than
welcome.
GI Morrison wrote, after much other stuff:
>>PS who is this G.I. person and why does she keep pissing everyone off?
<<
Thank you ever so much,
KatyMunger
chris mclaughlin
Denise <flet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Just cuz you think it stinks, doesn't mean everyone does.
>You are entitled to your opinion.
And posting a written piece invites statements of opinion,
not all of which will be what one might wish.
Which is one of the reasons we don't do it here.
G.L. is harsh. But perhaps he is not incorrect. Consider his
opinions, which are well-grounded, and move on to the next thing.
That's how we learn.
Chris
(some opinions are better than other opinions, in my opinion.)
Jack Mingo
Dear friends,
We in the bowels of the politburo of m.w have devised the soft-answer
strategy to those who blunder into our beloved group to post sensitive love
poetry, dark teen angst, pointless short stories, and the like.
That strategy is partly the result of our inherent niceness because we are,
as you know, "The Nicest Darned Group in the Whole Danged Usenet." (tm).
However, some of the strategy is because of its effectiveness, as well. One
soft answer can cut an entire mean critique/defensive answer thread like
this one from going any farther.
Sure, it's good fun to poke at someone else's writing, but it's also too
easy and somebody might get their vowels poked out. Worst of all, a new
person wandering in might see the spectacle and decide that m.w is REALLY
"The Meanest M*therfuckers in the Whole Damn*d Usenet!" (tm). Depending on
their intentions, they'll either leave (if looking for thoughtful,
supportive folks) or join fullblast into the "fun" (if a flamer). Either
way, it's our loss.
So be kind, be gently insistent, be informative...but please no shotguns
aimed at the sensitive poets.
Jack ("The Soft Answer: Jesus suggested it, I support it, end of discussion"
[tm]) Mingo
Jack Mingo
Dear friends,
We in the bowels of the politburo of m.w have devised the soft-answer
strategy to those who blunder into our beloved group to post sensitive love
poetry, dark teen angst, pointless short stories, and the like.
That strategy is partly the result of our inherent niceness because we are,
as you know, "The Nicest Darned Group in the Whole Danged Usenet." (tm).
However, some of the strategy is because of its effectiveness, as well. One
soft answer can cut an entire mean critique/defensive answer thread like
this one from going any farther.
Sure, it's good fun to poke at someone else's writing, but it's also too
easy and somebody might get their vowels poked out. Worst of all, a new
person wandering in might see the spectacle and decide that m.w is REALLY
"The Meanest M*therfuckers in the Whole Damn*d Usenet!" (tm). Depending on
their intentions, they'll either leave (if looking for thoughtful,
supportive folks) or join fullblast into the "fun" (if a flamer). Either
way, it's our lose.
Andy Katz
"G.l. Morrison" <gl...@efn.org> wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Dec 1996 20:15:53 -0600, Denise <flet...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >rose an evil that was so terrible
>
>Not mygawd, a terrible evil... no, a so terrible evil. What kind of play
>on words, metaphor or poetic devise did you intend here? A banana that was
>so yellow...
Now, as I'm sure you know, there are green bananas and brown bananas
and those big bananas from Central America that they use in place of
bowling pins down there...
But seriously, this is fine analysis (puts me to mind just a little of
Dorothy Parker on Aimee Semple McPherson) and I wonder whether you
could be induced to mosey on over to alt.adoption next time someone
posts--and they will, sure as death and diarrhea--this bit of insipid
doggerel first promulagated by Ann Abbey or Dear Landers, called 'The
Legacy of An Adopted Child'. However often we jam wooden stakes
through this one's pancreas, it rises anon.
Be our Buffy?
Andy Katz
__________________________________________
So sophisticated is my Net presence that I
now disdain sigs, ascii and even URLs....
a...@interport.net
a...@texas.net
andre...@aol.com
Fredrick Rea O'Keefe
Good post, Jack --- so good that it occurs twice. All according to the
Gospel of Jack. Do you give permission to use your TM creations?
Rick "I used to coulda bit harder when I had me teeth." O'Keefe
Jack Mingo <mi...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<32C94F...@pacbell.net>...
> Dear friends,
>
> We in the bowels who blunder into sensitive love
> poetry, dark teen angst, pointless short stories, and the like
> is partly the result of our inherent niceness because we are,
> as you know, "The Nicest Darned Group in the Whole Danged Usenet." (tm).
>
J.A. Hitchcock
On Tue, 31 Dec 1996 15:43:08 GMT, wcg...@cris.com (Wendy Chatley
Green) wrote:
> Allow me to point out that the denizens of misc.writing ask that work
>(both poetry and prose) not be posted in this newsgroup. If you want feedback,
>criticism, praise, whatever--post it to rec.arts.prose or rec.arts.poetry and
>then tell us where to look.
>
J.A. Hitchcock
International Author
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/6006
G.l. Morrison
On 31 Dec 1996, KATYMUNGER wrote:
> Dream on-- you're not that important. Now you take the critiquing and
> petty snipping off this board, too. PLEASE. If we wanted to hear this
> kind of crap, we'd all be enrolled in creative writing classes at our
> local junior colleges. Your other comments re writing have been more than
> welcome.
Thank you for submitting your comments. After due consideration, we find
that they do not meet our current needs. Also you should be aware that we
only respond with interest to paying subscribers. (Subscription
information enclosed.) Although we are rejecting your current comments,
we'd like to invite you to enter our ongoing comment contest. The entry
fee is only slightly higher than the prize. We hope you will have luck
placing your comments elsewhere in the future. And have a happy new year.
Sincerely,
G.L.
Jaybee
G.l. Morrison wrote:
>
> And the rest of you (yes, you!):
> lest you chastise me for cruelty "--oh, you might say something that could
> "discourage" someone from writing", let me remind you what I told a friend
> whose college professor had discouraged her from an illustrious writing
> career: Writers can't be discouraged from writing, that's what
> distinguishs them from other people with pencils.
>
I took two classes in creative writing I took. When the
teacher/moderator tells you to be honest, (s)he means "Say something
positive". I don't take creative writing classes anymore. What if the
others were as dishonest in their comments as I was?
Jaybee
("I really love the way you didn't end any sentences with a
preposition.")
Jaybee
J.A. Hitchcock wrote:
>
> I totally agree. Especially when we need to gab about Woody <grin>.
Please, no more Woody. I have better things to do with my free time.
Jaybee
(like skipping threads...)
Denise
not my poetry, then please change the subject line...your
message said re: Innocent Bystander, but you guys just want
to ramble on about nothing..it is really irritating.
Denise
Jensen
>If you are going to post a message regarding the comments and
>not my poetry, then please change the subject line...your
>message said re: Innocent Bystander, but you guys just want
>to ramble on about nothing..it is really irritating.
I actually discourage people from changing the subjuct header because it
creates a bunch of seemingly unconnected threads that people can't
follow. For example, suppose I had marked the thread "Innocent
Bystander" to be autoselected. By changing the subject header, you've
stopped me from reading anything else about that thread.
jen
Marc Elmlund
Denise <flet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I wrote and dedicated my poem, Innocent Bystander for Ron Goldman
> and Nicole Brown Simpson...sorry I didn't make it clear the first
> time.
I don't want to sound stupid but who are(were?) those people?
Regards
Marc Elmlund
Stockholm, Sweden
aka ma...@wineasy.se
Lavina
Denise wrote:
> If you are going to post a message regarding the comments and
> not my poetry, then please change the subject line...your
> message said re: Innocent Bystander, but you guys just want
> to ramble on about nothing..it is really irritating.
Hey, Denise! Happy New Year!
I hate to start the year out on this note, but you are the
one who is remiss in this scenario.
It is clearly stated in the FAQ, and apparent after a minimal spell
of lurking,that misc.writing is NOT an appropriate newsgroup in
which to seek critique of poetry or prose. There are other groups
specifically created for that purpose.
Given that, you cannot expect comments or critiques of your
poetry from this group. What you can count on is a host of
regulars pointing out why it is inappropriate to post your
works to this venue. We don't do it. Newbees who do their homework
don't do it. Why do you deserve special consideration?
Why should we change the subject line (although I just did)?
Cheers, Lavina
Denise
Cheers Lavina,
If you hadn't noticed, I haven't posted any more poems in this
newsgroup since I've been flamed!
Jack Mingo
Denise wrote:
>
> Cheers Lavina,
>
> If you hadn't noticed, I haven't posted any more poems in this
> newsgroup since I've been flamed!
Well, then the hazing's over. Welcome, Denise!
Jack (Psst, want to buy an elevator pass to m.wville's secret writing
salon?) Mingo
Andy Katz
ma...@wineasy.se (Marc Elmlund) wrote:
>Denise <flet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I wrote and dedicated my poem, Innocent Bystander for Ron Goldman
>> and Nicole Brown Simpson...sorry I didn't make it clear the first
>> time.
>
>I don't want to sound stupid but who are(were?) those people?
>
You're not stupid, Marc. Just lucky ... incredibly, astonishingly,
indubitably, one in a gazillion type lucky.
Andy 'I'd let Marc carry me through a minefield any day!' Katz
G.l. Morrison
On Wed, 1 Jan 1997, Jensen wrote:
> In article <32C9A7...@hotmail.com>, Denise <flet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >If you are going to post a message regarding the comments and
> >not my poetry, then please change the subject line...your
> >message said re: Innocent Bystander, but you guys just want
> >to ramble on about nothing..it is really irritating.
>
>
> I actually discourage people from changing the subjuct header because it
> creates a bunch of seemingly unconnected threads that people can't
> follow.
Also (while I should probably not be the one to say it), it should be
clear from most of the posts on misc.writing, starting a thread does not
give you any control over where it will go. But thanks for starting a new
thread with my name in it (ha, ha Ms. Munger who's unimportant?). Denise,
people are going to think we're in cahoots.
G.L. (cahoots: that's somewhere in Kansas, Dorothy)
Scribe
The following is a poem I wrote about battering -- perhaps it will be
insightful to some of those out there.
--
Cara's Free Fiction Site: http://free.websight.com/Cara/
Knight In Dark Armor
My Knight, you have arrived!
Yesterday, you rode a white horse,
Seduced me with hypnotic promises,
Boldly conquered my resistance.
Yesterday, I swept up to your side,
Propelled by your false strength,
A wild bird soaring in flight.
Today, you are an unmasked stranger,
Fury, blind jealousy behind your disguise,
Brutal fists, nightmarish reality.
Today, I cringe and weep fearful tears,
Crushed beneath your black boots,
A victim of your loveless charms.
Tomorrow, you will soothe my sadness,
Satan-soft vows of repentance,
Wilted roses in your outstretched hands.
Tomorrow, I'll ride nervously by your side,
My eyes on a bleak horizon,
Captured and broken, a bird in a cage.
My Knight, I have died!
[For Nicole Brown-Simpson & battered women]
Jack Mingo
Carolyn, calling herself Scribe, crossposted:
>
> The following is a poem I wrote about battering -- perhaps it will be
> insightful to some of those out there.
> My Knight, you have arrived!
>
> Yesterday, you rode a white horse,
> Seduced me with hypnotic promises,
> Boldly conquered my resistance.
[...]
I'm sure your poem is wonderful, but kindly don't post poems or prose in
misc.writing. We discuss the art and craft of writing (and some
interesting side issues), but make it a point NOT to post work here. If
that sounds good to you, join us. Otherwise, good luck in your
endeavors.
Jack Mingo
pondman
> I'm sure your poem is wonderful, but kindly don't post poems or prose in
> misc.writing. We discuss the art and craft of writing (and some
> interesting side issues), but make it a point NOT to post work here. If
> that sounds good to you, join us. Otherwise, good luck in your
> endeavors.
>
> Jack Mingo
There is no surprise that we skew it.
When Jack say no poems watch us do it.
You might try Ebonics, forget hooked on phonics
This is your world Jack welcome to it.
-pondman
Denise
KATYMUNGER wrote:
>
> Arrrrgggghhhhhhhuuurrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!
>
> I knew it. I knew it would spread. You see, it's a disease. A horribly
> contagious disease. Once you get started, it can't be stopped.
>
> No more poems. Please. No more poems. Please. NO MORE POEMS.
>
> Stop the madness. No more poems.
>
> Quick-- pass me the Rex Stout immediately. It's the only antitode....
>
> KatyMunger
> (Denise! See what you started? Quick-- redeem yourself: stomp this fire
> out! Actually, you've already redeemed yourself. But help me stomp this
> fire out anyway! )
How Katy!? Everytime I reply to a post, I keep deleting misc. writing
from the newsgroups line, but it keeps popping up, what do I do now?
Denise
KATYMUNGER
Well, if having a new thread with your name on it makes you feel
important, have at it-- but just ask Jayne Hitchcock if it's necessarily a
good thing! Personally, I shudder to see my name on threads. This can be
a very tough crowd. I'm not so tough myself, however: you can call me
Katy.
G.L. wrote:
>>But thanks for starting a new thread with my name in it (ha, ha Ms.
Munger who's unimportant?)<<<
KATYMUNGER
Frank Raymond Michaels
ma...@wineasy.se (Marc Elmlund) wrote:
>Denise <flet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I wrote and dedicated my poem, Innocent Bystander for Ron Goldman
>> and Nicole Brown Simpson...sorry I didn't make it clear the first
>> time.
>I don't want to sound stupid but who are(were?) those people?
>Regards
>Marc Elmlund
>Stockholm, Sweden
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A-ha! Well, presuming this is not a troll, here goes....
In the USA, Marc, the Simpson/Brown murder trial has dominated the
news for about two years, to the point that we're all sick to death of
hearing about it. The reason that it has grabbed such disproportionate
media attention is that the No. 1 suspect is a very famous American
Football-Hero-cum-Movie-Star O.J. Simpson (if you've seen _Capricorn
1_ or any of the _Police Squad_ movies in Sweden, you've seen him).
Going through a breakup with his (white) wife, Simpson (black)
allegedly knifed her to death along with a friend (Goldman) who
happened to be stopping by. There was a huge amount of circumstantial
evidence against him (including blood DNA) and no other real suspects
have come to light, but there was cause to believe that Los Angeles
police (often accused of being racist) had tampered with evidence and
had even planted evidence. Simpson was acquitted and found not guilty
of the murder. The trial was televised non-stop on all the news
stations and dozens of book deals and millions of dollars were made on
the trial, which was billed as "The Trial of the Century" (by, IMO,
ignorami who could not be troubled to remember little things like
Nuremburg). However, the families of the murder victims are now suing
O.J. Simpson for wrongful death in a civil suit. So the epic goes
on... and on... and on....
------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Raymond Michaels
John
In article <1997010103...@ras-64.wineasy.se>, ma...@wineasy.se (Marc Elmlund) wrote:
>Denise <flet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I wrote and dedicated my poem, Innocent Bystander for Ron Goldman
>> and Nicole Brown Simpson...sorry I didn't make it clear the first
>> time.
>
>I don't want to sound stupid but who are(were?) those people?
>
>Regards
>
>Marc Elmlund
>Stockholm, Sweden
You're not stupid -- you just have the wonderful good fortune of living
someplace where they didn't broadcast the "trial of the century" on every
stinking TV channel twenty-four hours a day for months.
Don't sweat it. Ron and Nicole were (probably) nice nobodies who got axed by
someone not-so-nice who thought he was a somebody. And he got away with it.
John (jatc...@imagin.net)
_____________________________
Please! Proofreed your posts!
chelsea corazon
Jack Mingo <mi...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Carolyn, calling herself Scribe, crossposted:
>>
>> The following is a poem I wrote about battering -- perhaps it will be
>> insightful to some of those out there.
>
>> My Knight, you have arrived!
>>
>> Yesterday, you rode a white horse,
>> Seduced me with hypnotic promises,
>> Boldly conquered my resistance.
>
>[...]
>
>
So good to know that you don't dignify the stultifyingly boring "MWVille"
spew as "prose".
>misc.writing. We discuss the art and craft of writing (and some
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yah. I've yet to see a nationally (or even widely locally -- I live in
the San Francisco Bay Area --) writer make an *acknowledged* appearance
in the mw newsgroup.
>interesting side issues), but make it a point NOT to post work here. If
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
rotflmao. Fucking sheep, one of misc.writing's favorite "witty" themes,
for example?
>that sounds good to you, join us. Otherwise, good luck in your
>endeavors. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks, decadent Fascisti. Good luck in holding on to your scalps in the
last days of this patriarchal empire. Wallow in what you think is your
insulation from the "real world."
new years greetings to misc. writing, the most *unfriendly* newsgroup
(outside of the venal misc.writing.screenplays) I've encountered in
nearly two years of surfing the 'net.
~Chelsea~
p.s. I *expect* to get heavily flamed for this, just as when I complained
about the insularity, bullying and hypocrisy that abound at
misc.writing.screeplays.
>Jack Mingo
Michael McNeilley
In article <32CB17...@pacbell.net>, Jack Mingo <mi...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Carolyn, calling herself Scribe, crossposted:
>>
>> The following is a poem I wrote about battering -- perhaps it will be
>> insightful to some of those out there.
>
>> My Knight, you have arrived!
>>
>> Yesterday, you rode a white horse,
>> Seduced me with hypnotic promises,
>> Boldly conquered my resistance.
>
>[...]
>
>
>I'm sure your poem is wonderful,
(what a jerk. he's saying he didn't even read it.)
>but kindly don't post poems or prose in
>misc.writing.
(sign language only.)
>We discuss the art and craft of writing (and some
>interesting side issues),
(but not writing. they hate reading other people's writing. they
just sit around misc.writing smelling their own farts.)
>but make it a point NOT to post work here.
(Ooh. Work. Ick. But you left misc.writing in this thread, to show
the other misc.writers you're protecting them from the shit
you and they can't do anything but talk about.)
>If
>that sounds good to you, join us. Otherwise, good luck in your
>endeavors.
>
>Jack Mingo
>
And good luck in your work as a control freak. And with your
heartbreaking sincerity challenge.
mcn
In other business:
Carolyn:
1. On misc.writing, they HATE writing. They just like to talk about
doing it. Half the postings there are "don't post this here."
Nobody could expect them to be this anal, so your mistake was not
an unusual one. Don't make it again, or they'll mailbomb you
with terrible unfinished novels.
2. This kind of pompous response is what you get for crossposting all
over hell and gone. (Removed everything but r.a.p. and good old
misc.writing.control.freaks from this thread). If you want to post
poetry on usenet, I'm afraid you're stuck with this damn place.
You'll probably hear from alt.prose, next...
3. Come up with a better nickname than "scribe." That's like a newbie
computer geek calling itself "Mr. Bill Gates."
4. If there really is a FAQ, something about avoiding the retentives
on misc.writing.own.farts should be in there somewhere...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zero City:
http://www.cruzio.com/~zerocity/
Deck Deckert
Michael McNeilley wrote:
If there really is a FAQ, something about avoiding the retentives
on misc.writing.own.farts should be in there somewhere...
Yes, Michael, there really is a FAQ.
But avoiding all us farts is rather difficult.
Best thing to do is read the group for some time to learn the local
mores before jumping in and trusting youself to the tender mercies
of us farts.
Deck
Jack Mingo
Well, okay: Just after I suggested a soft answer to people who
'crosspose' their prose and poetry, along comes a response that makes me
wonder about the strategy:
Michael McNeilley wrote a line by line critique:
>Mingo wrote:
> >
> >I'm sure your poem is wonderful,
>
> (what a jerk. he's saying he didn't even read it.)
Exactly right. (That is, I didn't read past the white horse in the first
line; whether I'm a jerk or just a disillusioned idealist is being voted
on even as we speak). If I wanted to read contemporary poetry, I already
have a half-dozen half-read poetry books on my shelves from friends and
people who I felt sorry for who were peddling them on Telegraph Avenue
in Berkeley. Furthermore, of course, there's rec.art.poems, where I can
read all the poems of this sort that I want.
>[various insults about misc.writing snipped, leading to]
> (they hate reading other people's writing. they
> just sit around misc.writing smelling their own farts.)
There are some interesting literary revelations that come from comparing
farts, I'll grant you. In fact...wait a minute, I feel mighty odd, like
a golden muse is tapping like a dormouse on my lily-white shoulder.
Somebody stop me, I feel a poem coming on....
FARTS
Farts do funny things when they strike against the nose
Other people's reak; your own are mighty like a rose.
The ones you think are swank and smart and oh so elegant?
Your friends hold noses asking how it is they smell-a-'phant.
Poems do funny things when they strike against the eye
Other people's suck; your own, of course, are apple pie.
Read them proudly in the world as your latest, greatest works--
And wonder why the audience gaffaws and laughs and smirks.
You see, poems are like farts, sweet to one but not another
(Frankly, most belong on the fridge door of your mother).
Arguments about which smells how will crush your creative bones
That's why in misc.writing, we ask, "Please! Don't post your pomes."
I'm sure we could spend hours debating whether the above is pure genius,
or merely a first class work by a seasoned master, but that could result
in endless bickering, hurt feelings, and continuing vendettas against
each other and unreasonable biases against other usenet groups. I'm sure
you could imagine....Oh, wait, maybe you don't have to imagine--I've
heard stories that r.a.p is full of that sort of thing.
Jack (But me, I'm sure your group is wonderful...) Mingo
Scribe
Seems I accidently broke a rule -- and I do have an explanation: I was
responding to 'Innocent
Bystander' on rec.arts.poems...but unfortunately, I didn't check to see
that the message I posted was CROSS posted. I'm new to the newsgroups, and
certainly, I won't make this mistake again.
However, I must say that ONE warning is enough; the whole group didn't have
to point out my error.
At any rate, sorry for the mistake; my apologies to one and all.
Carolyn
Lavina
Jack Mingo wrote:
> Denise wrote:
> > Cheers Lavina,
> > If you hadn't noticed, I haven't posted any more poems in this
> > newsgroup since I've been flamed!
> Well, then the hazing's over. Welcome, Denise!
Ditto! I'm pleased that you've survived the flames and decided
to stick around. Welcome!
Cheers, Lavina
Jaybee
Scribe wrote:
>
> However, I must say that ONE warning is enough; the whole group didn't have
> to point out my error.
>
Yes, they did. They can't help it. It's like moving a table center
piece two inches to the left. It'll drive them absolutely crazy until
they've placed it back in the absolute middle. And straightened out the
doily underneath.
Jaybee
(and told you: "Now, isnt' it much better this way?")
Jack Mingo
Scribe wrote:
> However, I must say that ONE warning is enough; the whole group didn't have
> to point out my error.
>
Dear Carolyn,
No problem, mistakes happen. Thanks for the classy apology.
--The entire group of misc.writing
Sal
chelsea corazon <kare...@sirius.com> (who needs to get a life) wrote:
> Interesting self-admissions of guilt, Jack and Lavinia, that both
> flaming and hazing do indeed prevail here toward anyone who's
> perceived as a "newbie" particularly if they "step out of line." What
> utter bullshit on a public newsgroup. Anyone who wishes can post
> anything they want.
> ~Chelsea~
> (who plans to post a real good poem here soon. Try 'n stop me
> suckahs..,)
Chelsea knows all about Usenet.
She knows how to read FAQs.
She knows how to read posting guidelines.
She is so utterly cool she admits she doesn't care why misc.writing was
formed or who it is who takes part in the newsgroup. She doesn't care
about group dynamics or whether what she has to offer could possibly
interest anyoneelse 'cause she is soooo cool of course it would - no
question about it. *AND* she can shit in anyone's pool 'cause those who
tell her 'tain't the thing to do are just flaming wusses who can't tell
her nothin' no time no how.
She is a charming naif who will do as she pleases.
She is a wonderful person welcome whereever she goes.
We are so lucky she has graced us with her presence.
And she loves us so she is planning to stick around.
We are so lucky, lucky, lucky.
Oh, yippeee and hooray!!!!
What a gift for the new year. We thought Chelsea had gone away and was
never coming back. We were bereft. We were forlorn.
Oh, yippeeee and hooray!!!!
Sal
who, like most newbies on misc.writing, was welcomed when she appeared
and was only flamed after she was perceived to be an oldbie and part of
the Secret BackChannel Inner Star Council which ran misc.writing.
Jaybee
Ari cword wrote:
>
> Now, do I sense some bitterness here?
>
Hardly. An opinion of the elements I find amusing, in a head-shaking
sorta way.
Jaybee
sal...@fuse.net
FARTS
>
> Farts do funny things when they strike against the nose
> Other people's reak; your own are mighty like a rose.
> The ones you think are swank and smart and oh so elegant?
> Your friends hold noses asking how it is they smell-a-'phant.
>
> Poems do funny things when they strike against the eye
> Other people's suck; your own, of course, are apple pie.
> Read them proudly in the world as your latest, greatest works--
> And wonder why the audience gaffaws and laughs and smirks.
>
> You see, poems are like farts, sweet to one but not another
> (Frankly, most belong on the fridge door of your mother).
> Arguments about which smells how will crush your creative bones
> That's why in misc.writing, we ask, "Please! Don't post your pomes."
> I'm sure
> heard stories that r.a.p is full of that sort of thing.
>
> Jack (But me, I'm sure your group is wonderful...) Mingo
Oh thank you for the guffaws, laughs, and smirks triggered in me by your
poem!
I think that I shall
Never smell a fart as love-
ly as poetry
saludo
pondman
Scribe wrote:
>
> Seems I accidently broke a rule -- and I do have an explanation: I was
> responding to 'Innocent
> Bystander' on rec.arts.poems...but unfortunately, I didn't check to see
> that the message I posted was CROSS posted. I'm new to the newsgroups, and
> certainly, I won't make this mistake again.
>
> to point out my error.
>
> At any rate, sorry for the mistake; my apologies to one and all.
>
Carolyn
pure innocent
the spring blossum
her beautiful words sing
and restore all hope
apologizes for her
sincere heart
SORRY...that you got caught up in this.
pondman makes mistakes too, but hides behind his ego.
Shelle Barton or Joel Robertson
Ari cword wrote:
>
> In article <32CC4B...@sympatico.ca>, jbou...@sympatico.ca says...
Yes, they did. They can't help it. It's like moving a table center
> >piece two inches to the left. It'll drive them absolutely crazy until
> >they've placed it back in the absolute middle. And straightened out the
> >doily underneath.
>
> THIS is a good metaphor ;-). (for those of you gabbing about them)
shelle
Ari cword
>>
>> However, I must say that ONE warning is enough; the whole group didn't have
>> to point out my error.
>>
>
>piece two inches to the left. It'll drive them absolutely crazy until
>they've placed it back in the absolute middle. And straightened out the
>doily underneath.
Now, do I sense some bitterness here?
/Ari
chelsea corazon
chris mclaughlin <cmcl...@post.its.mcw.edu> wrote:
>Denise <flet...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Just cuz you think it stinks, doesn't mean everyone does.
>>You are entitled to your opinion.
>
>And posting a written piece invites statements of opinion,
>not all of which will be what one might wish.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Which is one of the reasons we don't do it here.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which is one of the reasons this group ain't worth jack shit to a serious
writer. You're all just so busy playin' "mw-ville" games and scratchin'
each others' balls 'n rosebuds. Nobody ever submits real writing or gets
real feedback. There are many other internet groups (rec.arts.books,
rec.arts.poems, alt.pomo, alt.bitterness, alt.angst, rec.arts.prose) for
example, that have a better grip on reality. This group needs serious
revision and rethinking, Primarily, to get rid of people like Ellie who
are using the ng primarily as a platform to shill their personal
commercial products for writers. Then say goodbye to the rightwing
elitists, fascists, anti-feminists and anti-gays who are using this
newsgroup surreptitiously to advance their political agendas.
>
>G.L. is harsh. But perhaps he is not incorrect. Consider his
>opinions, which are well-grounded, and move on to the next thing.
>That's how we learn.
>
>
>Chris
>(some opinions are better than other opinions, in my opinion.)
>
Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one. And, in the words of
Jean Genet, "No farts smell as sweet as one's own." Chris and
G1 Morrison, obviously love the smell of their own vacuous gassing.
~Chelsea~
chelsea corazon
Interesting self-admissions of guilt, Jack and Lavinia, that both flaming
chelsea corazon
Jack Mingo <mi...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Well, okay: Just after I suggested a soft answer to people who
>'crosspose' their prose and poetry, along comes a response that makes me
>wonder about the strategy:
>
>
>
>Michael McNeilley wrote a line by line critique:
>
>>Mingo wrote:
>> >
>> >I'm sure your poem is wonderful,
>>
>> (what a jerk. he's saying he didn't even read it.)
>
>Exactly right. (That is, I didn't read past the white horse in the first
>line; whether I'm a jerk or just a disillusioned idealist is being voted
>on even as we speak). If I wanted to read contemporary poetry, I already
>have a half-dozen half-read poetry books on my shelves from friends and
>people who I felt sorry for who were peddling them on Telegraph Avenue
>in Berkeley. Furthermore, of course, there's rec.art.poems, where I can
>read all the poems of this sort that I want.
>
>
>>[various insults about misc.writing snipped, leading to]
>> (they hate reading other people's writing. they
>> just sit around misc.writing smelling their own farts.)
>
>There are some interesting literary revelations that come from comparing
>farts, I'll grant you. In fact...wait a minute, I feel mighty odd, like
>a golden muse is tapping like a dormouse on my lily-white shoulder.
>Somebody stop me, I feel a poem coming on....
>
>
>
>Farts do funny things when they strike against the nose
>Other people's reak; your own are mighty like a rose.
>The ones you think are swank and smart and oh so elegant?
>Your friends hold noses asking how it is they smell-a-'phant.
>
>Poems do funny things when they strike against the eye
>Other people's suck; your own, of course, are apple pie.
>Read them proudly in the world as your latest, greatest works--
>And wonder why the audience gaffaws and laughs and smirks.
>
>You see, poems are like farts, sweet to one but not another
>(Frankly, most belong on the fridge door of your mother).
>Arguments about which smells how will crush your creative bones
>That's why in misc.writing, we ask, "Please! Don't post your pomes."
I believe that's what's known in the trade as a non sequitur Jack.
(Though I'm sure you thought it was a zinger.)
>>
>
>I'm sure we could spend hours debating whether the above is pure genius,
>or merely a first class work by a seasoned master, but that could result
>in endless bickering, hurt feelings, and continuing vendettas against
>each other and unreasonable biases against other usenet groups. I'm sure
>you could imagine....Oh, wait, maybe you don't have to imagine--I've
>heard stories that r.a.p is full of that sort of thing.
>
>Jack (But me, I'm sure your group is wonderful...) Mingo
You also stated in one of your earlier "get-out-of-misc-writing" posts
that "prose" is not welcome in misc.writing. Not only is your entire
correspondence on the subject (not to mention your entire mw oeuvre)
ample evidence of that fact, but additionally, I suggest you look up the
definition of the word prose in any handy dictionary.
~Chelsea~
(wondering what the antonym of the word prose is. Hmmm, maybe
'irrelevant gobbleydegook.' That would certainly describe most of the
inanity posted in the misc.writing newsgroup.)
Frank Raymond Michaels
Jack Mingo <mi...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>FARTS
>Farts do funny things when they strike against the nose
>Other people's reak; your own are mighty like a rose.
>....
Jack --
I'm sure your poem is wonderful, but kindly don't post poems or prose
in misc.writing. We discuss the art and craft of writing (and some
interesting side issues), but make it a point NOT to post work here.
I believe this haiku will explain the reason for this:
ENLIGHTENMENT
Sifting through our 'Net
Seeking fishes of wisdom
Finding snarls and tears
----------------------------------------------
Frank Raymond Michaels ("Hoping to form an endless Moebius loop of
these posts...")
Maggie Mulvaney
On 3 Jan 1997 01:44:32 GMT, chelsea corazon <kare...@sirius.com>
wrote:
>Which is one of the reasons this group ain't worth jack shit to a serious
>writer. You're all just so busy playin' "mw-ville" games and scratchin'
>each others' balls 'n rosebuds. Nobody ever submits real writing or gets
>real feedback. There are many other internet groups (rec.arts.books,
>rec.arts.poems, alt.pomo, alt.bitterness, alt.angst, rec.arts.prose) for
>example, that have a better grip on reality. This group needs serious
>revision and rethinking, Primarily, to get rid of people like Ellie who
>are using the ng primarily as a platform to shill their personal
>commercial products for writers. Then say goodbye to the rightwing
>elitists, fascists, anti-feminists and anti-gays who are using this
>newsgroup surreptitiously to advance their political agendas.
Hi Chelsea, nice to meet you too. Remind me - why did you stop by?
mmy
**********************************************************
* If I spoke for Fisher & Paykel, they'd pay me more *
**********************************************************
* MMY * mulv...@fp.co.nz *
* Maggie Mulvaney * http://www.nmia.com/~entropy/maggie/ *
**********************************************************
chelsea corazon
pondman <pon...@erols.com> wrote:
>Scribe wrote:
>>
>> Seems I accidently broke a rule -- and I do have an explanation: I was
>> responding to 'Innocent
>> Bystander' on rec.arts.poems...but unfortunately, I didn't check to see
>> that the message I posted was CROSS posted. I'm new to the newsgroups, and
>> certainly, I won't make this mistake again.
>>
>> to point out my error.
>>
>>
>> Carolyn
>
>
>Carolyn
>pure innocent
>the spring blossum
>her beautiful words sing
>and restore all hope
>apologizes for her
>sincere heart
>SORRY...that you got caught up in this.
>
>pondman makes mistakes too, but hides behind his ego.
Let's go with this one:
"Never complain. Never explain. Never apologize."
-- Elsa Maxwell
(Do I have the quote and the attribution right, m. lee?)
~Chelsea~
sal...@fuse.net
Chelsea wrote:
> (who plans to post a real good poem here soon. Try 'n stop me suckahs..,)
Yo, D.L.---wake up! I enjoyed your last critique so much that I'll look
through all 2000 posts every day for this next one!
saludo
chelsea corazon
yeah, happy to, Maggie. I stopped by to give this group some fresh grey
matter, and to try to persuade those of you who aren't totally
brainwashed by the "sheeping sickness" to either revamp and open up the
group to fresh thoughts and ideas, or if this be moribund, to desert to
other groups, like rec.arts. books, rec.arts.prose, alt.prose, or the new
alt.writing newsgroup. The misc.writing group is dominated by a few
hucksters, shuckers and jivers, but I sense the potential of hundreds,
maybe thousands of lurkers who'd like something better. I would, myself.
I would like to see a group that welcomes creative writing discussion.
and maybe a separate group needs to be started for those who are
exclusively dedicated to the great god mammon, i.e., "marketing."
~Chelsea~
(who's been observing the downward suck of the mw newsgroup for a year.)
sal...@fuse.net
Whoops--typo. G.L. (But I'm sure you all know who I mean).
saludo
Andrew Kelly
On 3 Jan 1997 02:57:57 GMT, chelsea corazon <kare...@sirius.com>
wrote:
another example in a long series of interesting clinical studies
of the desire to belong, and the resulting externalization
resulting from the thwarting of this most basic human need.
> ~Chelsea~
>
>(wondering what the antonym of the word prose is. Hmmm, maybe
>'irrelevant gobbleydegook.' That would certainly describe most of the
> inanity posted in the misc.writing newsgroup.)
but please, don't let that stop you from reading it.
and reading it,
And (rea...oh, you get the picture) rew
This "we don't feel worthy of mw so lets berate it" club is
growing rather large. Could this be what was portended in the
"book"?
Armageddon?
Armagoston?
What's going on?
What Beck says.
Kimberly
On Sun, 29 Dec 1996 20:15:53 -0600, Denise <flet...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Innocent Bystander
>
>He had no way of knowing
>this would be his final evening
>He was an innocent bystander
>doing a good deed for a friend
>When to his shock and surprise
>rose an evil that was so terrible
>His only defense was his inner strength
>and intense struggle for survival
>not only for himself, but for her
>He was overcome by the horror
>of an overpowering force
>He had no time remaining
>to say goodbye to his friends
>He was an innocent bystander
>doing a good deed for a friend
>
>Denise Fletcher
>Copyright, 1996
>
>Your comments welcome!
Is this about Ron Goldman?
Deck Deckert
chelsea corazon wrote:
The misc.writing group is dominated by a few hucksters,
shuckers and jivers, but I sense the potential of hundreds,
maybe thousands of lurkers who'd like something better.
Ah, you're a PSYCHIC! Why didn't you say so. There are numerous
groups on psi matters, if psi matters to you.
Thanks for dropping by.
Deck
Andrew Kelly
On 3 Jan 1997 06:42:33 GMT, chelsea corazon <kare...@sirius.com>
wrote:
and I quote:
--------------begin referenced post--------------
mulv...@fp.co.nz (Maggie Mulvaney) wrote:
>On 3 Jan 1997 01:44:32 GMT, chelsea corazon <kare...@sirius.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Which is one of the reasons this group ain't worth jack shit to a serious
>>writer. You're all just so busy playin' "mw-ville" games and scratchin'
>>each others' balls 'n rosebuds. Nobody ever submits real writing or gets
>>real feedback. There are many other internet groups (rec.arts.books,
>>rec.arts.poems, alt.pomo, alt.bitterness, alt.angst, rec.arts.prose) for
>>example, that have a better grip on reality. This group needs serious
>>revision and rethinking, Primarily, to get rid of people like Ellie who
>>are using the ng primarily as a platform to shill their personal
>>commercial products for writers. Then say goodbye to the rightwing
>>elitists, fascists, anti-feminists and anti-gays who are using this
>>newsgroup surreptitiously to advance their political agendas.
>
>Hi Chelsea, nice to meet you too. Remind me - why did you stop by?
>mmy
yeah, happy to, Maggie. I stopped by to give this group some
fresh grey
matter, and to try to persuade those of you who aren't totally
brainwashed by the "sheeping sickness" to either revamp and open
up the
group to fresh thoughts and ideas, or if this be moribund, to
desert to
other groups, like rec.arts. books, rec.arts.prose, alt.prose, or
the new
alt.writing newsgroup. The misc.writing group is dominated by a
few
hucksters, shuckers and jivers, but I sense the potential of
hundreds,
maybe thousands of lurkers who'd like something better. I would,
myself.
I would like to see a group that welcomes creative writing
discussion.
and maybe a separate group needs to be started for those who are
exclusively dedicated to the great god mammon, i.e., "marketing."
~Chelsea~
(who's been observing the downward suck of the mw newsgroup for a
year.)
------------------------end referenced post---------------------
[placing my rather attractive, and amazingly powerful hand on
Chelsea's forehead]
hhhhhhhEEEEEEAL!!!
And (if that doesn't help I'll have to use my foot) rew
What Beck says.
Jackie Togwell
chelsea corazon <kare...@sirius.com> wrote:
>>Which is one of the reasons this group ain't worth jack shit to a serious
>writer. You're all just so busy playin' "mw-ville" games and scratchin'
>each others' balls 'n rosebuds. Nobody ever submits real writing or gets
>real feedback. There are many other internet groups (rec.arts.books,
>rec.arts.poems, alt.pomo, alt.bitterness, alt.angst, rec.arts.prose) for
>example, that have a better grip on reality. This group needs serious
>revision and rethinking, Primarily, to get rid of people like Ellie who
>are using the ng primarily as a platform to shill their personal
>commercial products for writers. Then say goodbye to the rightwing
>elitists, fascists, anti-feminists and anti-gays who are using this
>newsgroup surreptitiously to advance their political agendas.
>
>>
So what are you still doing here then? If this ng is worth *Jack-shit*
to a serious writer, then I guess, by your own admission, that you're
not a serious writer. Although there is alot of stuff about mwville,
and little wars, there is still a load of serious information to be
gained from this newsgroup.
This newsgroup is not and never has been used for submitting poems and
stories. It is for general discussion about all sorts of writing
topics.
Maybe you should go somewhere else. I doubt anyone here will stop
you.
Jax
Stress: That confusion created when ones mind overrides the
body's basic desire to choke the living shit out of some
arsehole who desparately needs it...
http://www.orichson.demon.co.uk
Denise
Martin Fouts wrote:
>
> Chelsea, darlin', perhaps it's time they upped the dosage? <grin>
>
> There are many ways to be helpful to writers, and this news group
> serves several of them. You can, in fact, get good advice on grammar,
> (even how to spell it,) and excellent advice on the *business* of
> writing here.
>
> On the other hand, as someone who also frequents rec.arts.poems, I can
> catagorically state that what we have there is an anarchy. Any
> resemblence it bears to reality is purely coincidental. More than half
> the posts are neither poems nor their critiques nor even about poetry.
>
> Also, you are trying to have it both ways. In one thread you claim you
> will post any damn thing you want to misc.writing. In another you are
> demanding that we throw one of the people who post out. This is at the
> least not consistent, and the most hypocritical.
>
> As much as you don't like it, we tend to apply free speach
> around here, which means that even the rightwing elitist fascist
> anti-feminist... have as much right to post as anyone else; something
> you should certainly be familiar with from rec.arts.poems...
>
> Crawl down off your high horse and join the human race.
>
> marty -- who's still waiting for the apology you owe me.
>
> --
> Martin Fouts m...@best.com - <http://www.best.com/~mjf>
> movin' to montana soon, goin' a be a dental floss tychoon -- frank zappa
I deleted the subject line, re: innocent bystander from this post,
because this has nothing to do with my poem, "Innocent Bystander"...
the issue has moved on to more serious matters, like FLAMING!
Denise
Denise
> yeah, happy to, Maggie. I stopped by to give this group some fresh grey
> matter, and to try to persuade those of you who aren't totally
> brainwashed by the "sheeping sickness" to either revamp and open up the
> group to fresh thoughts and ideas, or if this be moribund, to desert to
> other groups, like rec.arts. books, rec.arts.prose, alt.prose, or the new
> alt.writing newsgroup. The misc.writing group is dominated by a few
> hucksters, shuckers and jivers, but I sense the potential of hundreds,
> maybe thousands of lurkers who'd like something better. I would, myself.
> I would like to see a group that welcomes creative writing discussion.
> and maybe a separate group needs to be started for those who are
> exclusively dedicated to the great god mammon, i.e., "marketing."
> ~Chelsea~
> (who's been observing the downward suck of the mw newsgroup for a year.)
I like that...fresh thoughts and ideas...anyone open to that?
Denise
> Hi Chelsea, nice to meet you too. Remind me - why did you stop by?
>
> mmy
post yet about writing...seems like all people do is rant and
rave in misc. writing.
Denise
Anna Banana wrote:
>
> Chelsea Corazon wrote:
>
> : new years greetings to misc. writing, the most *unfriendly* newsgroup
> : (outside of the venal misc.writing.screenplays) I've encountered in
> : nearly two years of surfing the 'net.
> : ~Chelsea~
> :
> : p.s. I *expect* to get heavily flamed for this, just as when I complained
> : about the insularity, bullying and hypocrisy that abound at
> : misc.writing.screeplays.
>
>
> This isn't a flame, Chelsea. I'm curious.
>
> If you find this the least friendly newsgroup, if you dislike
> it so much, why are you spending so much time here?
>
> Is the answer in your p.s.? You fully _expect_ to get flamed.
> It seems like a huge effort.
>
> Your posts surprise me because, even though I _enjoy_ this
> newsgroup, I can't imagine spending so much time expecting
> responses from it, good or bad.
>
> Anna
> Can't begin to imagine spending as much time anticipating
> flames.
What did this post have to do with my poem, Innocent Bystander?
I guess this is another post I had to change the subject line.
Denise
Deck Deckert wrote:
>
> chelsea corazon wrote:
> The misc.writing group is dominated by a few hucksters,
> shuckers and jivers, but I sense the potential of hundreds,
> maybe thousands of lurkers who'd like something better.
>
> groups on psi matters, if psi matters to you.
>
> Thanks for dropping by.
>
> Deck
Pat Marcello
> >On 3 Jan 1997 01:44:32 GMT, chelsea corazon <kare...@sirius.com>
> >wrote:
> >
<snip a whole bunch of stuff about why this ng is so terrible>
I quote:
> >>Which is one of the reasons this group ain't worth jack shit to a
serious
> >>writer.
It is improper to take the Jack's name in vain.
>>>Primarily, to get rid of people like Ellie who
> >>are using the ng primarily as a platform to shill their personal
> >>commercial products for writers.
Do you do that, Ellie? Shame on you. I hadn't noticed. However, Chelsea.
LEAVE Ellie alone. You could use some smiling.
> ~Chelsea~
> (who's been observing the downward suck of the mw newsgroup for a
> year.)
Weeeeeeeeeelllllllllllll, Chelsea. If it's so bad, why are you wasting
your time?
Pat M. Later. BTW, have you ever contributed anything before?
KATYMUNGER
Chelsea, please-- your extraordinary insecurity is unbecoming to us all.
Get a grip. Thousands of people are now shaking their heads at the poor
girl named Chelsea who doesn't have a life and has to spend her hours
throwing tantrums on-line. I feel sorry for you, but show some
self-respect, would you? As another woman, I feel embarrassed for you.
Katy Munger
Your guests will never know....
Matt J. Clairday
is this a diabolically clever aritifical intelligence program, which
has been created to churn the murky waters of misc.writing?? I read a
book once, where this AI became a dangerous entity, and before you knew
it....
Robynn :-)
Gregg Germain
Well, I've just recently joined the newsgroup, so I can't say I've
observed a "downward suck". But I do have to admit I'm surprised at
the large number of non-writing topics you see in here:
most overrated movie
threads debating Conservatism vs Liberalism
ebonics
Jeff Goldblum fantasies/non-fantasies.
and so on......
While I wouldn't, for a second, want to limit what people can talk
about in any newsgroup, I find it takes a bit of searching to find
threads discussing technique, agents/publishers, styles etc.
They are there....but buried.
--- Gregg
Saville
gr...@hrc2.harvard.edu #29 Genie
Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics #1762 CRIS
Phone: (617) 496-7713 "A Mig at your six is better than
no Mig at all."
Jensen
>I would like to see a group that welcomes creative writing discussion.
>and maybe a separate group needs to be started for those who are
>exclusively dedicated to the great god mammon, i.e., "marketing."
Where do the tech writers fit in this scheme?
You've got space for creative writing and marketing (although the
"business" of writing might be a more inclusive designation). What
about tech writers, non-fiction writers, etc.?
jen
Jensen
>I would like to see a group that welcomes creative writing discussion.
>and maybe a separate group needs to be started for those who are
>exclusively dedicated to the great god mammon, i.e., "marketing."
Your proposal to split misc.writing has been hashed and re-hashed many
times within the group. If you are serious about creating a new
newsgroup, you might find the following resources helpful.
For resources on creating a new group within the existing hierarchy,
try:
http://www.cis.ohio-state.
edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/usenet/creating-newsgroups/
part1/faq.html
http://www.cis.ohio-state.
edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/usenet/creating-newsgroups/
helper/faq.html
For resources on creating a new group within the alt.* hierarchy,
try:
http://www4.ncsu.edu/unity/users/a/asdamick/www/news/create.html
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/alt-hierarchies/
emily-alt-advice/faq.html
cheers,
jen
Wendy Chatley Green
chelsea corazon <kare...@sirius.com>, who appears to hate this newsgroup and
almost everyone in it but who also likes it enough to stay, wrote:
:Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one. And, in the words of
:Jean Genet, "No farts smell as sweet as one's own." Chris and
:G1 Morrison, obviously love the smell of their own vacuous gassing.
: ~Chelsea~
Are you aware that, if this applies to everyone, it also applies to you?
-
Wendy Chatley Green -- wcg...@cris.com
Jensen
>What did this post have to do with my poem, Innocent Bystander?
>I guess this is another post I had to change the subject line.
No, just another post who felt unworthy of association with your work
yet is a direct result of your posting it here.
jen
Jensen
In article <32CD1A...@hotmail.com>, Denise <flet...@hotmail.com
>I deleted the subject line, re: innocent bystander from this post,
>because this has nothing to do with my poem, "Innocent Bystander"...
>the issue has moved on to more serious matters, like FLAMING!
>
Or wasting bandwidth
jen
KATYMUNGER
Hmmm.... an interesting theory. However, on reflection, I feel that
Chelsea does not write nearly well enough to be Bart and does not show
enough pride or self-respect to be Jaybee. However, she is surely the
alter ego of the Woodside Moron. That, or the spawn of Satan.
KatyMunger
P.S.: Jaybee, I must stand up for you in this instance. You seem FAR more
intelligent than the misguided Chelsea.
Jensen
A quick scan of the headers in this morning's posts shows the following:
agents
anti-spam court ruling (I've included this as it indicates a discussion
of one of those numbered rights those Yanks are always on about and are
of particular interest to writers)
call for submissions
calling for advice from my MW friends (discussion of publishers, agents,
etc.)
help publishing my book
help with my writing in English
just finished my novel. what now?
not creative enough
the writer magazine (not an ad)
and a couple of threads devoted to unscrupulous agents who shall remain
nameless
Perhaps your news server doesn't get all the posts.
jen
KATYMUNGER
Ellie, have I missed some sort of commerical endeavor on your part? I
hadn't noticed a whiff of enterprise from your corner. And speaking of
whiffs, this Chelsea creature makes it sound like you've been hawking
feminine hygiene spray. Perhaps we should develop one just for writers
("Head off yet another rejection with our new feminine spray, Airudite.
For the woman -- and the writer-- in you."). Let's send the first case to
Chelsea: she seems a bit obsessed with "rosebuds", "vacuous gassing",
"downward sucks" and "freshness".
Chelsea wrote, thus proving she actually had spent very little time on
misc.writing with the following preposterous statement:
>>> Primarily, to get rid of people like Ellie who are using the ng
primarily as a platform to shill their personal commercial products for
writers.<<<
Jensen
I'm with you, Katy. Jaybee also exhibits a subtle yet complex sense of
humour.
cheers,
jen
Jensen
Posted for MaBear
In article <5ai9op$j...@sun.sirius.com>, chelsea corazon
<kare...@sirius.com> wrote:
[a bunch of stuff]
Goodness! Somebody needs a nap or has PMS!
In the thread, "G.I. Morrison's comments about innocent bystander",
Chelsea Corazon demonstrates what happens when one gets too little sleep
or forgets to take an adequate dose of Midol:
>Which is one of the reasons this group ain't worth jack shit to a
>serious writer.
A serious writer? Here? No, no, no! We're rarely serious, and then
only in small doses. Should anyone start getting seriously serious, the
mw Good Samaritan brigade will immediately dump a bucket of humor on the
serious individual, thereby dousing the seriousness before it becomes
too serious.
As for being worth jack shit, well, we are quite aware that we don't
exactly have the highest real estate values, what with it being a
virtual community and all. Still, it's home and we like it.
>You're all just so busy playin' "mw-ville" games and scratchin'
>each others' balls 'n rosebuds.
So *that's* what's been going on down there behind One Mingo Plaza!
Damn! I should've cleaned my binoculars sooner -- I thought it just
looked like a really warped game of Twister(tm)!
>Nobody ever submits real writing or gets
>real feedback.
"Real writing?" Please define that.
Some of us are forced to earn our daily bread by writing serious stuff
all day long. We come to mw to practice writing humor or fiction (in
the form of the MWV and Lurksburg stories), lest we let those skills
become rusty and crusty.
Could that not be construed as writing exercises? Are writing exercises
not "real?" And are the responses to questions and comments not "real"
feedback?
>There are many other internet groups (rec.arts.books,
>rec.arts.poems, alt.pomo, alt.bitterness, alt.angst, rec.arts.prose)
>for example, that have a better grip on reality.
And anyone is certainly free to go to another group if they don't like
it here. Some people are even capable of participating in more than one
group at a time <GASP!>!!!
As for grip on reality, well, we try loosen ours a bit when we come to
mw. You see, this is our playground and our ongoing cocktail
party/business luncheon/streetcorner chat/debating society. A grip on
reality is really only necessary for the business luncheon and debating
society aspects of mw. You can unclench a bit otherwise. There's no
need to be embarrassed if you should happen to unclench just enough that
a little silliness leaks out. And when entering the MWV zone, your grip
on reality must be checked at the door. It will be returned to you when
you leave MWV, but we cannot and will not guarantee its condition.
>This group needs serious
>revision and rethinking,
We do not do copyediting or rewrites here. But flinging bonbons and bon
mots is allowed.
>Primarily, to get rid of people like Ellie who
>are using the ng primarily as a platform to shill their personal
>commercial products for writers. Then say goodbye to the rightwing
>elitists, fascists, anti-feminists and anti-gays who are using this
>newsgroup surreptitiously to advance their political agendas.
HEY! This makes us sound like a bunch of subversives or something! I
always wanted to be a subversive! Let's see .... we have left wing
subversives and right wing subversives (well, that should at least help
us fly straight), middle of the road subversives (this is OK, but it
hurts like hell when you get run over by traffic), out-in-left-field
subversives and lost-in-the-fog subversives. We have feminists and
anti-feminists, gays and anti-gays. We have Americans and non-Americans
- don't know what colors any of them are, though, except for that
Smurf named Ellie, whom we know is sometimes blue, even when she's
cheery.
Yep. Definitely subversive. So many agendas and opinions that surely
one agenda will eventually emerge to rule the world. Mmmmhmmmm. And
here, we just thought we were a community. <shrug> Guess we'll just
have to get rid of 'em all ......
MaBear
1 Murkyshadow Lane
Lurksburg
Matt J. Clairday
Maybe this is an AI with multiple personalities?? Each unique but
consistently interested in making waves...Robynn
Sal
Robert St. James wrote:
> A good metaphor for what? Obnoxious mw loudmouths like Jack Mingo? And
> why
> the recent obsession to crosspost into RAP?
Robert *obviously* hasn't had his lunch today.
(And no, we don't want to hear about it when he does...)
The crossposts are 'cause we missed him.
Sal
--
[posted to m.w only - to spare St.James' feelings]
McCabe's Law: Nobody _has_ to do _anything. - Charles McCabe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
m.w URLs: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/4052/mwurl.html
mirror site: http://www.netcom.com/~sjtowse/mwurl.html
Sal
KATYMUNGER wrote:
>
> Ellie, have I missed some sort of commerical endeavor on your part? I
> hadn't noticed a whiff of enterprise from your corner. And speaking of
> whiffs, this Chelsea creature makes it sound like you've been hawking
> feminine hygiene spray.
> Chelsea wrote, thus proving she actually had spent very little time on
> misc.writing with the following preposterous statement:
>
> primarily as a platform to shill their personal commercial products
> for writers.<<<
I think what Chelsea may be referring to Ellie's infrequent posts
regarding her editing expertise and such.
And perhaps her sig, I dunno.
But extrapolating these instances into "primarily as a platform to
shill" seems a little wacko.
*I* use this newsgroup as a shill for the wonders of Deja News, myself.
Sal
--
[e-mailed/posted]
SW
Sal wrote:
>
> SW wrote:
> >
> > Sal wrote:
>
> > > Sal
> > > who, like most newbies on misc.writing, was welcomed when she
> > > appeared and was only flamed after she was perceived to be an oldbie
> > > and part of the Secret BackChannel Inner Star Council which ran
> > > misc.writing.
> >
> > Hey Sal,
> >
> > As an old cyber-friend I say, forget Chelsea, your little hummer of a
> > paragraph holds fodder for a much more interesting set of
> > flame-threads.
> > You can tell by certain key phrases written by certain posters that
> > they feel they run the newsgroup. Newbies are often run out on a rail
> > by about 3 or 4 people who try in desperate coolness to keep it all
> > under personal domain.
>
> <snip>
>
> > If this has offended, I refer to my post of Jan 1, 97 "apology in
> > advance." The dynamics have very much changed here.
>
> Dear Ms. Soft or Mr. Ware -
Its SW.
>
> Hello?????
> The operative word you seem to have skipped in your reading of my exit
> line is "perceived."
>
> There has always been a bit of paranoia wafting around and the thought
> that there is a back channel of 3 or 4 people who are trying to "rule"
> m.w is simply silliness.
That was my point. It would be pointless to try.
>
> The back channel is *much* more interesting than that, trust me. The
> things which go out in e-mail, well... Some reputations could be shot
> all to hell. The polyamorous back channel is having so much fun it
> doesn't have *time* to worry about coordinating a conspiracy to keep m.w
> under its collective thumb.
Why would it bother with MW?
> Trust me on this, Mr. Soft or Ms. Ware.
Its SW.
> Misc.writing happens to be a collective group with a charter and posting
> guidelines. Some folks happen to like it just the way it is and object
> when people come and shit in the community pool.
What I notice is that the pool is turning to shit on its own. Maybe it
is the time of the year?
> Other folks seem to like the added je ne sais quoi though.
I know I do.
>
> Jack! Your day to run the skimmer!
> Sal
>
Too late.
in fun and friendliness,
SW
aka <yawn>
SW
Sal wrote:
>
> chelsea corazon <kare...@sirius.com> (who needs to get a life) wrote:
>
>
> Sal
> who, like most newbies on misc.writing, was welcomed when she appeared
> and was only flamed after she was perceived to be an oldbie and part of
> the Secret BackChannel Inner Star Council which ran misc.writing.
Hey Sal,
As an old cyber-friend I say, forget Chelsea, your little hummer of a
paragraph holds fodder for a much more interesting set of
flame-threads.
You can tell by certain key phrases written by certain posters that they
feel they run the newsgroup. Newbies are often run out on a rail by
about 3 or 4 people who try in desperate coolness to keep it all under
personal domain.
I am reminded of Times Square on New Years Eve. Millions of people
squozen shoulder to shoulder. An old homeless man trying to spread out
his blanket yelling to the multitudes "don't step on my blanket, don't
step on my blanket." No one really paid much ado. The same person never
stepped on it twice. Each stepper this old mans "newbie."
Backchanneling as organized here is like 3 or four folks standing in
that crowd, wringing hands, saying to one another "what will we do about
this unruly crowd?"
I am reminded of some of the great long fun threads that used to pop up
from time to time. Even some of those great old timers are joining in on
the fist-wave and negative stuff, who would never have acknowledged it
before.
If this has offended, I refer to my post of Jan 1, 97 "apology in
advance." The dynamics have very much changed here.
SW
aka ohwell
Robert St. James
Shelle Barton or Joel Robertson wrote:
>
> Ari cword wrote:
> >
> > In article <32CC4B...@sympatico.ca>, jbou...@sympatico.ca says...
>
> Yes, they did. They can't help it. It's like moving a table center
> > >piece two inches to the left. It'll drive them absolutely crazy until
> > >they've placed it back in the absolute middle. And straightened out the
> > >doily underneath.
> >
> > THIS is a good metaphor ;-). (for those of you gabbing about them)
>
> shelle
A good metaphor for what? Obnoxious mw loudmouths like Jack Mingo? And
why
the recent obsession to crosspost into RAP?
--
Robert St. James
(Slacker Novelist by Day, Divine Poet by Night)
http://ares.csd.net/~rsieg/st_james/st_james.htm (writings)
http://ares.csd.net/~rsieg/st_james/st_james.gif (picture)
http://ares.csd.net/~rsieg/a_vye/a_vye.htm (music)
Stan (the Man)
Posted for MaBear:
> >Primarily, to get rid of people like Ellie who
> >are using the ng primarily as a platform to shill their personal
> >commercial products for writers. Then say goodbye to the rightwing
> >elitists, fascists, anti-feminists and anti-gays who are using this
> >newsgroup surreptitiously to advance their political agendas.
HEY! This makes us sound like a bunch of subversives or something! I
always
wanted to be a subversive! Let's see .... we have left wing
subversives and
right wing subversives (well, that should at least help us fly
straight),
middle of the road subversives (this is OK, but it hurts like hell when
you get
run over by traffic), out-in-left-field subversives and lost-in-the-fog
subversives. We have feminists and anti-feminists, gays and
anti-gays. We
have Americans and non-Americans - don't know what colors any of them
are,
though, except for that Smurf named Ellie, whom we know is sometimes
blue, even
when she's cheery.
Yep. Definitely subversive. So many agendas and opinions that surely
one
agenda will eventuall emerge to rule the world. Mmmmhmmmm. And here,
Paul Harwood
On Fri, 03 Jan 1997 15:17:01 -0500, zi...@aol.com (Hound of Cullen)
wrote:
>In article <5ajdjg$f...@fountain.mindlink.net>, a...@peavine.com (Jensen) wrote:
>
>:Where do the tech writers fit in this scheme?
>:
>:You've got space for creative writing and marketing (although the
>:"business" of writing might be a more inclusive designation). What
>:about tech writers, non-fiction writers, etc.?
>:
>:jen
>
>I'm sorry, Jen, but you don't fit in the new, improved "Chelseaworld."
>Chelsea has no interest in your concerns, so you (and all other
>tech.writers) will be eliminated.
>
>Rest assured your elimination will be swift and painless. Ignore the black
>helicopters landing in your front yard.
>
Hey Hound -- are you referring to misc.writing's impending
transformation to misc.chelsea(tm)? If so, be aware that
"Chelseaworld" will be a splinter group in the misc.chelsea.worship.*
hierarchy. The black helicopters will of course only appear to those
who post in the misc.chelsea.flamers.die.die.die subgroup.
It's nice to finally have someone in control of this newsgroup. I'm
sure that, like the rest of us, you eagerly await the birth of our
brave new world.
Paul Harwood
cc: e-mail
Andy Katz
chelsea corazon <kare...@sirius.com> wrote:
>Yah. I've yet to see a nationally (or even widely locally -- I live in
>the San Francisco Bay Area --) writer make an *acknowledged* appearance
>in the mw newsgroup.
Hey wait a sec, I'm really James Ellroy!
>Thanks, decadent Fascisti. Good luck in holding on to your scalps in the
>last days of this patriarchal empire. Wallow in what you think is your
>insulation from the "real world."
>
>new years greetings to misc. writing, the most *unfriendly* newsgroup
>(outside of the venal misc.writing.screenplays) I've encountered in
>nearly two years of surfing the 'net.
Er, have you tried alt.folklore.urban? Now *there's* an example of an
unfriendly newsgroup.
>p.s. I *expect* to get heavily flamed for this, just as when I complained
>about the insularity, bullying and hypocrisy that abound at
>misc.writing.screeplays.
No way, Corazon, that business about 'decadent Fascisti' is really
cool, first class prosody ... because it was written in plural, it
refers, I presume, to all mw readers, correct?
Righteous....
Andy 'Okay, I'm not Ellroy--had you all going there, didn't I?' Katz
__________________________________________
So sophisticated is my Net presence that I
now disdain sigs, ascii and even URLs....
a...@interport.net
a...@texas.net
andre...@aol.com
Sal
SW wrote:
>
> Sal wrote:
> > Sal
> > who, like most newbies on misc.writing, was welcomed when she
> > appeared and was only flamed after she was perceived to be an oldbie
> > and part of the Secret BackChannel Inner Star Council which ran
> > misc.writing.
>
> Hey Sal,
>
> As an old cyber-friend I say, forget Chelsea, your little hummer of a
> paragraph holds fodder for a much more interesting set of
> flame-threads.
> You can tell by certain key phrases written by certain posters that
> they feel they run the newsgroup. Newbies are often run out on a rail
> by about 3 or 4 people who try in desperate coolness to keep it all
> under personal domain.
<snip>
> If this has offended, I refer to my post of Jan 1, 97 "apology in
> advance." The dynamics have very much changed here.
Dear Ms. Soft or Mr. Ware -
Hello?????
The operative word you seem to have skipped in your reading of my exit
line is "perceived."
There has always been a bit of paranoia wafting around and the thought
that there is a back channel of 3 or 4 people who are trying to "rule"
m.w is simply silliness.
The back channel is *much* more interesting than that, trust me. The
things which go out in e-mail, well... Some reputations could be shot
all to hell. The polyamorous back channel is having so much fun it
doesn't have *time* to worry about coordinating a conspiracy to keep m.w
under its collective thumb.
Trust me on this, Mr. Soft or Ms. Ware.
Misc.writing happens to be a collective group with a charter and posting
guidelines. Some folks happen to like it just the way it is and object
when people come and shit in the community pool.
Other folks seem to like the added je ne sais quoi though.
Jack! Your day to run the skimmer!
Sal
--
[e-mailed/posted/bcc: to those who need to know]
MEM
>>Hi Chelsea, nice to meet you too. Remind me - why did you stop by?
>>
>>mmy
>
>
>yeah, happy to, Maggie. I stopped by to give this group some fresh grey
>matter, and to try to persuade those of you who aren't totally
>brainwashed by the "sheeping sickness" to either revamp and open up the
>group to fresh thoughts and ideas, or if this be moribund, to desert to
>other groups, like rec.arts. books, rec.arts.prose, alt.prose, or the new
>alt.writing newsgroup. The misc.writing group is dominated by a few
>hucksters, shuckers and jivers, but I sense the potential of hundreds,
>maybe thousands of lurkers who'd like something better. I would, myself.
>I would like to see a group that welcomes creative writing discussion.
>and maybe a separate group needs to be started for those who are
>exclusively dedicated to the great god mammon, i.e., "marketing."
> ~Chelsea~
>(who's been observing the downward suck of the mw newsgroup for a year.)
>
>
Oh my, oh my. I mainly lurk, especially when I have 2,500 posts to skip
through after my Christmas break, but this, dearie, was a little to hard to
pass by. My I make a suggestion, Chelsea luv? If you truly dislike misc.writing so,
take your own advice and "desert" to a group that suits you better. Leave
misc.writing to those of us who enjoy it and benefit from it.
My I further suggest reading the FAX before getting your expectations aligned
in any specific direction? The purpose of misc.writing is not to showcase
anyone's deathless prose or poetry, but to discuss the art/profession of writing,
and as a forum for those engaged in the joy/struggle of writing to find
a moment or two of relaxation with like-minded people.
Please do feel free to join us if, and when, you find that you can join in that
spirit. I am afraid that lobbying the group to change to suit your purposes
will be efforts made in vain.
MEM (Now click your heals together three times and repeat after me, "There's
no place like misc.writing, there's no place like misc.writing.)
KATYMUNGER
You know, I keep hearing this claim about a hardy few attempting to
control misc.writing -- and, indeed, I made it myself when I first joined.
But, after several months of participation, I just don't see it here at
all. It was MY mis-perception, caused by the articulateness and/or
sometimes murky attitudes of some posters that took getting used to. It
is extremely easy to interpret a strongly held opinion as an attempt to
control when you have no facial or verbal clues. There are a few veterans
here, but they don't foolishly try to control things any more than people
who have just joined do. I honestly don't see a pattern of a few people
desperately trying to maintain their importance by attempting to control
the uncontrollable here.
It pisses me off when people accuse the FAQ master and others of control
attempts when, in fact, people are simply observing good netiquette and
pointing out the obvious. It's up to newbies to read the FAQs and
guidelines first-- if they don't, they are in error, not those who point
out their rudeness. If a so-called "newbie" persists in ignoring the
rather simple guidelines and minimal standards of courtesy here, they
deserve to be run out and are fair game.
>>>You can tell by certain key phrases written by certain posters that
they feel they run the newsgroup. Newbies are often run out on a rail by
about 3 or 4 people who try in desperate coolness to keep it all under
personal domain. <<<<
Ari cword
Chelsea wrote...
<snipped some>
>yeah, happy to, Maggie. I stopped by to give this group some fresh grey
>matter, and to try to persuade those of you who aren't totally
Ouch, the pictue that formed in my mind right after that fresh grey matter
stuff quoted above was a drive-by shooting.
/Ari (and I'm FOR gun-control)