[WR] Writing: Craft or Art?
Sylvia
"Writing is a craft."
<counting> <scribble>
'K, put 'em down. Now:
"Writing is an art."
<counting> <scribble>
Huh. Hold on.
<recounting>
'K, put 'em down. <considering>
How many raised their hands both time?
Also, why is an art is a fine thing, a craft a fine thing, the Arts &
Crafts Movement a fine thing, but just plain old "arts & crafts"
considered child's play? And cheap and messy, with bits of white glue
blobs here and there?
While yer at it, I need 500 words on "The Red-Necked Turtle and the
Buffleduck: Conspirators Amidst the Pond Scum" by Tuesday.
--
Sylvia
"...misc.writing is a huge discussion devoted to'writing and
topics of interest to writers.' Amidst the chatter, running
jokes and other oddities are threads on publishing, writing,
characterizations, how writers cope with the various
adversities that face writers, and other pertinent information.
"misc.writing has a high noise-to-signal ratio
but its denizens *like it that way*."
-- mw Official Website FAQs
Robert McClelland
"Sylvia is stupid."
> <counting> <scribble>
>
> 'K, put 'em down. Now:
"Sylvia is mentally ill."
> <counting> <scribble>
>
> Huh. Hold on.
>
> <recounting>
>
> 'K, put 'em down. <considering>
>
> How many raised their hands both time?
Thought so.
--
Visit my blahg site.
GO NOW DAMMIT!
http://myblahg.blogspot.com/
William Starr Moake
wrote:
>I need to see a show of hands.
>
>"Writing is a craft."
>
><counting> <scribble>
>
>'K, put 'em down. Now:
>
>"Writing is an art."
>
><counting> <scribble>
>
>Huh. Hold on.
>
><recounting>
>
>'K, put 'em down. <considering>
>
>How many raised their hands both time?
>
Vladimir Nabokov thought fiction was an art and he denigrated authors
who treated it as a craft (i.e. Hemingway, etc.).
Prof Marvel
>>I need to see a show of hands.
>
>
> "Sylvia is stupid."
>
>
>><counting> <scribble>
>>
>>'K, put 'em down. Now:
>
>
> "Sylvia is mentally ill."
>
>
>><counting> <scribble>
>>
>>Huh. Hold on.
>>
>><recounting>
>>
>>'K, put 'em down. <considering>
>>
>>How many raised their hands both time?
>
>
> Thought so.
>
Hehe.
prof marvel
--
Another Kimba Woods Mystery:
"The President's Baby"
Thomas Armagost
In message <pvh4401ca07vhedrl...@4ax.com>,
William Starr Moake <wsm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Vladimir Nabokov thought fiction was an art and he denigrated authors
> who treated it as a craft (i.e. Hemingway, etc.).
I admire Nabokov and Hemingway. For a craftsman, Hemingway sure hung
with a lot of artistes. Picasso, Gertrude Stein, F. Scott Fitzgerald
and Zelda. I guess he was only there for the booze.
<http://www.mala.bc.ca/~lanes/english/hemngway/seminar.htm>
The Lost Generation. Hemingway's Paris.
--
blog <http://www.well.com/user/silly/>
Dr Zen
Nabokov=wanker. He said a lot of stupid things and his writing was often dull.
Zen
Dr Zen
> >I need to see a show of hands.
>
> "Sylvia is stupid."
>
> > <counting> <scribble>
> >
> > 'K, put 'em down. Now:
>
> "Sylvia is mentally ill."
>
> > <counting> <scribble>
> >
> > Huh. Hold on.
> >
> > <recounting>
> >
> > 'K, put 'em down. <considering>
> >
> > How many raised their hands both time?
>
> Thought so.
'Snot fair. I wanted to vote for "boring as fuck" but it wasn't on the
ticket. That's what happens when there's no write-ins allowed.
Zen
William Starr Moake
I suppose it's a matter of personal taste, but I disagree. "Lolita"
was a brilliant novel and some of his short stories were excellent.
And Hemingway was the king of saying and doing stupid things in his
personal life.
William Penrose
> "Writing is a craft."
>
> "Writing is an art."
You're both wrong. Writing is a way of not looking for a real job.
Bill Penrose
"I'm not really a waiter, I'm a writer."
Dr Zen
> On 1 Mar 2004 04:22:01 -0800, gol...@hotmail.com (Dr Zen) wrote:
>
> >William Starr Moake <wsm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<pvh4401ca07vhedrl...@4ax.com>...
> >> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 23:21:37 -0600, Sylvia <syl...@cliffhanger.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I need to see a show of hands.
> >> >
> >> >"Writing is a craft."
> >> >
> >> ><counting> <scribble>
> >> >
> >> >'K, put 'em down. Now:
> >> >
> >> >"Writing is an art."
> >> >
> >> ><counting> <scribble>
> >> >
> >> >Huh. Hold on.
> >> >
> >> ><recounting>
> >> >
> >> >'K, put 'em down. <considering>
> >> >
> >> >How many raised their hands both time?
> >> >
> >> Vladimir Nabokov thought fiction was an art and he denigrated authors
> >> who treated it as a craft (i.e. Hemingway, etc.).
> >
> >Nabokov=wanker. He said a lot of stupid things and his writing was often dull.
> >
> I suppose it's a matter of personal taste, but I disagree.
*shrug*
> "Lolita"
> was a brilliant novel
It's *said* to be a brilliant novel. I disagree. It's the emperor's
new novel, frankly. No one wants to say it, but everyone knows it.
> and some of his short stories were excellent.
The shorter the better, eh?
> And Hemingway was the king of saying and doing stupid things in his
> personal life.
I wasn't talking about anyone's personal life. What does that have to
do with anything? Hemingway pisses on Nabokov. And he would have beat
him in a fight.
Zen
Jim Bayers
>
> Zen
The first paragraph of _Lolita_ is worth the price of admission:
"Lolita, light of my life, fire of my loins. My sin, my soul.
Lo-lee-ta: the tip of the tongue taking a trip of three steps down the
palate to tap, at three, on the teeth. Lo. Lee. Ta."
Frank Raymond Michaels
> I need to see a show of hands.
<dumps out plastic bag> There.
--
FRM (Craft, BTW)
gekko
misc.writing, took a trip of three steps down the palate to tap, at
> Writing is a way of not looking for a real job.
::yoink::
--
gekko
Writing is a way of not looking for a real job. -- Bill Penrose
Dr Zen
Well, opinions vary.
Zen
ActiveVerb
style gorgeous. Others find it overly fancy and hard to plow through. No real
right or wrong on this -- just matters of taste
Sylvia
> Sylvia wrote
> > I need to see a show of hands.
> <dumps out plastic bag> There.
<petulant> I said I needed to see a *show*.
<Using a pencil to poke one of the hands>
Can't ya make then dance or sumpthin'? I'll bet if ya got together with
Dr. billo and Mr. Penrose you could do it.
Here. Here's the key to the old lab in the Castle. It has one of those
table thingies that rises up to the skylight.
--
Sylvia
"Walls make the room. Definitely walls.
Ask Fortunato if you don't believe me."
-- Mr. FRM
Sylvia
> Sylvia wrote
> > "Writing is a craft."
> >
> > "Writing is an art."
> You're both wrong.
Sorry, it's that split personality thingie.
> Writing is a way of not looking for a real job.
Right, 'cause if you love what you do for a living, then it isn't a job.
Sylvia
> Sylvia wrote:
> >I need to see a show of hands.
> >
> >"Writing is a craft."
> >
> ><counting> <scribble>
> >
> >'K, put 'em down. Now:
> >
> >"Writing is an art."
> >
> ><counting> <scribble>
> >
> >Huh. Hold on.
> >
> ><recounting>
> >
> >'K, put 'em down. <considering>
> >
> >How many raised their hands both time?
> Vladimir Nabokov thought fiction was an art and he denigrated authors
> who treated it as a craft (i.e. Hemingway, etc.).
Please stop looking at Mr. Nabokov's test paper.
What do *you* think it is?
Sylvia
> "Robert McClelland" wrote
> > >I need to see a show of hands.
> >
> > "Sylvia is stupid."
> >
> > > <counting> <scribble>
<Actual Scribble: NOTE: Robert cannot a follow simple direction even
when given 15 seconds to do it. He still acts out in class>
> > > 'K, put 'em down. Now:
> >
> > "Sylvia is mentally ill."
> >
> > > <counting> <scribble>
<Actual Scribble: NOTE: Counting to ten keeps me from giving him a good
<WHAP!> Must save his Post for the next time that he whines, "This
*group* does not encourage threads about writing and needs to be
changed.">.
<...>
>
> 'Snot fair. I wanted to vote for "boring as fuck" but it wasn't on the
> ticket. That's what happens when there's no write-ins allowed.
>SMOOCH!< Thanks for missing me, Zen, but bidness is keeping me busy
this week. Just wanted to check on the thread.
Now, art or craft?
I don't consider my technical writing an art or a craft, it's just a
job. Writing radio copy touched on art as in, "there's an art to it."
But that had more to do, I believe, with the psychology and timing. It
certainly isn't a "fine art."
Fiction and essays: craft.
I'm not sure what kind of writing I'd consider an art. I guess something
that "sounded" good, that you could say, "Lookit what a beautiful use of
a metaphor. Let's put it on the mantle. Joy forever, innit." I've read
books where the story lost me, but where I kept on reading because I
knew I'd see some more of these gems.
I have a handle on it in the visual arts. When I draw what I see with my
eyes, that's art. When I work at a piece to make it express something
other than what the eye can see, that's craft.
Arleen
> I have a handle on it in the visual arts. When I draw what I see with my
> eyes, that's art. When I work at a piece to make it express something
> other than what the eye can see, that's craft.
>
and when i draw what i see with my eyes, that's skill. when i work at a
piece to make it express something other than what the eye can see, that's
art.
<g>
aj
Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady
Excellent.
So, using that we could say that when we write down a story, that's
skill. But when we work on that story until it can evoke emotions in
the reader that are beyond the simple meanings of the words
themselves, that's art!
(Or... perhaps, that's Poetry <shut up, Steve>!)
--
Davida Chazan (The Chocolate Lady)
<davida AT jdc DOT org DOT il>
NOTE: From March 15, please add the letter c after my name
for my new REAL e-mail address!
~*~*~*~*~*~
"What you see before you, my friend, is the result of a lifetime of
chocolate."
--Katharine Hepburn (May 12, 1907 - June 29, 2003)
~*~*~*~*~*~
pandora
"Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady" <7zcm...@sneakemail.com> wrote in
message news:o6vd40tdq8mdi1bhf...@4ax.com...
> NOTE: My Correct Address is in my signature (just remove the spaces).
> On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 04:46:45 -0500, "Arleen"
> <dropthisp...@givepeaceachance.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Sylvia" <syl...@cliffhanger.com> wrote in message
> >news:sylvia-EDFAD2....@news.fu-berlin.de...
> >> I have a handle on it in the visual arts. When I draw what I see with
my
> >> eyes, that's art. When I work at a piece to make it express something
> >> other than what the eye can see, that's craft.
> >>
> >
> >and when i draw what i see with my eyes, that's skill. when i work at a
> >piece to make it express something other than what the eye can see,
that's
> >art.
> >
> ><g>
>
> Excellent.
>
> So, using that we could say that when we write down a story, that's
> skill. But when we work on that story until it can evoke emotions in
> the reader that are beyond the simple meanings of the words
> themselves, that's art!
>
> (Or... perhaps, that's Poetry
Yes! Exactly.
<shut up, Steve>!)
Indeed.
Marg
Crowfoot
Syl...@honey.toast.net wrote:
> William Starr Moakewrote:
>
> > Sylvia wrote:
>
> > >I need to see a show of hands.
> > >
> > >"Writing is a craft."
> > >
> > ><counting> <scribble>
> > >
> > >'K, put 'em down. Now:
> > >
> > >"Writing is an art."
IMO, first draft is art -- the creative flow (if you're lucky).
Editing, revisions, polishing is craft.
Neither is likely to succeed without the other.
SMC
--
Crowfoot
Michelle Hakala
Well said, SMC!
I agree; the first draft is art and the rest is craft.... and work!
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"I love being a writer. What I can't stand is the paperwork."
- Peter De Vries
Michelle, wine...@inreach.com
The Desk Drawer, writer's exercise email list:
http://www.topica.com/lists/deskdrawer
Sylvia
> >> > Sylvia wrote:
> >>
> >> > >I need to see a show of hands.
> >> > >
> >> > >"Writing is a craft."
> >> > >
> >> > ><counting> <scribble>
> >> > >
> >> > >'K, put 'em down. Now:
> >> > >
> >> > >"Writing is an art."
> >IMO, first draft is art -- the creative flow (if you're lucky).
> >
> >Editing, revisions, polishing is craft.
> >
> >Neither is likely to succeed without the other.
Well said, thank you.
And thanks to everyone else who voted.
--
Sylvia