Agent to AVOID
THERES...@delphi.com
Hi all,
I've got a children's book out to several agents and one of them called me
this morning.
She called collect. She didn't ask for further details about my story but
rather wanted to confirm the word count. She told me she charges a reading
fee based on a per-word rate. When I told her that in my experience as an
author and editor that agents get paid when the book sells as per the
contract, she said "I don't use contracts." She did not want to talk about
her experience in the children's book genre, nor did she want to address my
book. She was calling for money.
Reputable agents don't call collect. They don't charge a reading fee. And
above all, they use contracts. The are willing to tell you a bit about
themselves and their experience or, at the very least, send you something
about themselves.
If you have a list of agents to avoid, put the name "Diane Raintree" in big
red letters across the top. This person was not recommended to me and I
admit I went off my usual list for this project, which I will never do
again. :)
Theresa Grant
Editors are people, too!
Rainbow V 1.15.2 for Delphi - Registered
StevStamps
for crooked agents.
Stephen G. Esrati
Author of COMRADES, AVENGE US!
Smrt fasizmu, svoboda narodu!
Sarah E. Bewley
On 6 Jun 1995 THERES...@delphi.com wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've got a children's book out to several agents and one of them called me
> this morning. She called collect. <big snip.>
>
> Reputable agents don't call collect. They don't charge a reading fee. And
> above all, they use contracts. The are willing to tell you a bit about
> themselves and their experience or, at the very least, send you something
> about themselves.
>
> If you have a list of agents to avoid, put the name "Diane Raintree" in big
> red letters across the top. This person was not recommended to me and I
> admit I went off my usual list for this project, which I will never do
> again. :)
>
I had a similar experience with this woman several years ago. I checked
into her and could find no-one for whom she'd ever SOLD a book. I think
she lives on reading fees and such.
My opinion is that she is a big-time rip-off artist who feeds on the
ignorance of beginning writers.
Fortunately I was not a beginner so all she got me for was a phone call.
Sarah Bewley
Sarah E. Bewley
On 7 Jun 1995, D. R. Evans wrote:
> THERES...@delphi.com wrote:
> >
>
> >If you have a list of agents to avoid, put the name "Diane Raintree" in big
> >red letters across the top. This person was not recommended to me and I
> >admit I went off my usual list for this project, which I will never do
> >again. :)
>
> I note that in my copy of LMP, the entry under aforesaid person says
> "reading fee". That's enough warning for me.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
> D.R. Evans NQ0I / G4AMJ : dev...@orion.colorado.edu
> al...@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu
The year that I had contact with her (1990, I think) her entry in the LMP
did NOT say reading fee. She claimed it was an error on the part of the
LMP. I contacted them and they said she'd removed it from her listing
that year. When I talked to her, she said "Oh, I don't charge a reading
fee. I charge for my TIME spent reading your manuscript." I told her I
didn't care how she PHRASED it, it was a reading fee.
I wrote the LMP about it and apparently since then she has listed a
"reading fee."
Sarah Bewley
D. R. Evans
>
>If you have a list of agents to avoid, put the name "Diane Raintree" in big
>red letters across the top. This person was not recommended to me and I
>admit I went off my usual list for this project, which I will never do
>again. :)
>
>
I note that in my copy of LMP, the entry under aforesaid person says
"reading fee". That's enough warning for me.
--
--------------------------------------------------------
D.R. Evans NQ0I / G4AMJ : dev...@orion.colorado.edu
al...@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu
"Palindor Chronicles" information and extracts:
http://spot.colorado.edu/~romigj/drevans.html
--------------------------------------------------------
sk....@ccnet.com
Kim...
(footer? what footer? I don't see a footer...)
D. R. Evans
>
>The year that I had contact with her (1990, I think) her entry in the LMP
>did NOT say reading fee. She claimed it was an error on the part of the
>LMP. I contacted them and they said she'd removed it from her listing
>that year. When I talked to her, she said "Oh, I don't charge a reading
>fee. I charge for my TIME spent reading your manuscript." I told her I
>didn't care how she PHRASED it, it was a reading fee.
>
Good grief. How devious can a person get. I wonder if people like her really can make a
living out of this game? I guess the answer is that she can, or at least it must be
worthwhile, otherwise she wouldn't still be at it.
Gus F. Kilthau
D. R. Evans <al...@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu> wrote:
>THERES...@delphi.com wrote:
>>
>
>>If you have a list of agents to avoid, put the name "Diane Raintree" in big
>>red letters across the top. This person was not recommended to me and I
>>admit I went off my usual list for this project, which I will never do
>>again. :)
>>
>>
>
>I note that in my copy of LMP, the entry under aforesaid person says
>"reading fee". That's enough warning for me.
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>D.R. Evans NQ0I / G4AMJ : dev...@orion.colorado.edu
> al...@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu
>
>"Palindor Chronicles" information and extracts:
> http://spot.colorado.edu/~romigj/drevans.html
>--------------------------------------------------------
Well, I don't particularly like to butt in on a conversation, and
certainly NOT about literary agents, but, in reading the above message
concerning the reason(s) for knocking one particular agent (named)
I notice that there is an objection to a "reading fee." by one
of the objectors.
I have had to struggle through hundreds of manuscripts, none of which
involved a "reading fee." Let me just say, that any agent who receives
hundreds or thousand of manuscripts to review for possible representation
most definitely deserves to be paid for reading them.
Imagine yourself the head of a company, such as Readers Digest Books,
that receives 100,000 or so manuscripts a year from unsolicited
writers. Would you read those manuscripts (or could you afford to
hire enough people to read them) if each were not accompanied by
some sort of payment by the would-be published author? How much
does it COST to read a manuscript, let's say, one of 300 pages in
length. How much do YOU earn an hour when you are paid to read
something?
I am not a writers' agent, nor a proofreader, etc., but I have been
in the publishing area. It is difficult to tell so m a n y authors
that their stuff is not worth publishing, but most of it is not.
For that matter, most of MINE is not, even though I love it all dearly.
Regards, and don't knock the agents all that hard. They have to put
up with authors... and if you think that is easy, maybe you'd better
try it yourself!
Gus Kilthau g...@olivaw.tau.hti.net
>
>
William S. Lovell
> [big snip]
How much does it COST to read a manuscript, let's say, one of 300
pages in length. How much do YOU earn an hour when you are paid
to read something?
Let me ask the obvious question: if you have read that 300 pages and
dccided not to proceed with the book, when did you get your first clue?
Page 298? 156? How about 20?
Sccondly, the 1995 Guide to Literary Agents (Holm/Writer's Digest
Books, p 10) reports a policy that will be in effect on Jan. 1, 1996,
which is that AAR (Association of Autthors' Representatives)
members will be prohibited from charging readers fees, and .they
will not now accept new members who do charge such fees.
Bill (I say again, I don't pay nobody to read my stuff) Lovell
D. R. Evans
>Well, I don't particularly like to butt in on a conversation, and
>certainly NOT about literary agents, but, in reading the above message
>concerning the reason(s) for knocking one particular agent (named)
>I notice that there is an objection to a "reading fee." by one
>of the objectors.
>
>I have had to struggle through hundreds of manuscripts, none of which
>involved a "reading fee." Let me just say, that any agent who receives
>hundreds or thousand of manuscripts to review for possible representation
>most definitely deserves to be paid for reading them.
Sorry. I disagree (politely).
The entry for the agent in question reads "No unsolicited manuscripts".
Therefore, she's soliciting these things after reading a synopsis,
portion, or whatever, and then charging to read them.
I don't see why authors should pay for an agent who has such poor
judgement that they can't make a living by selling the typescripts they
have adjudged worthy of reading in full.
Agents deserve to be paid for selling typescripts, not reading them. If,
or the basis of a review of the first 20 or 30 or 50 pages or whatever,
an agent thinks the thing is good enough to request the whole mess, then
I don't see why he should be paid if his judgement turns out to be wrong
most of the time.
>
>Imagine yourself the head of a company, such as Readers Digest Books,
>that receives 100,000 or so manuscripts a year from unsolicited
>writers. Would you read those manuscripts (or could you afford to
>hire enough people to read them) if each were not accompanied by
>some sort of payment by the would-be published author? How much
>does it COST to read a manuscript, let's say, one of 300 pages in
Nope, I wouldn't. But we're not talking about UNsolicited material.
>
>I am not a writers' agent, nor a proofreader, etc., but I have been
>in the publishing area. It is difficult to tell so m a n y authors
>that their stuff is not worth publishing, but most of it is not.
>For that matter, most of MINE is not, even though I love it all dearly.
>
>Regards, and don't knock the agents all that hard. They have to put
>up with authors... and if you think that is easy, maybe you'd better
>try it yourself!
Oh, I don't knock agents at all, I really don't. I just subscribe to the
belief that if they're any good, they should be able to figure out which
typescripts are winners early in the game and make enough to live on by
selling those, without wasting their time reading codswallop.
Regards
Sarah E. Bewley
vast majority of agents who charge such fees NEVER SELL ANYTHING BY THE
WRITER. They discover there are lots of people willing to pay somone to
read their work and so they read and read and read (yeah, right) and
charge lots and lots and lots of money to poor, ignorant, beginning
writers, and gosh, darn, they make enough money they don't have to SELL
anything!
I object to supporting an agent who's not trying to sell my work.
Sarah Bewley
THERES...@delphi.com
Quoting "SarahE.Bewley"<afn01641 from a message in misc.writing
> > If you have a list of agents to avoid, put the name "Diane
>Raintree" in big > red letters across the top. This person was not
>recommended to me and I > admit I went off my usual list for this
>project, which I will never do > again. :)
> >
>checked into her and could find no-one for whom she'd ever SOLD a
>book. I think she lives on reading fees and such.
> My opinion is that she is a big-time rip-off artist who feeds on the
> ignorance of beginning writers.
> Fortunately I was not a beginner so all she got me for was a phone
>call.
> Sarah Bewley
Same here. One 3-minute collect phone call is all she got.
D. R. Evans
>Sccondly, the 1995 Guide to Literary Agents (Holm/Writer's Digest
>Books, p 10) reports a policy that will be in effect on Jan. 1, 1996,
>which is that AAR (Association of Autthors' Representatives)
>members will be prohibited from charging readers fees, and .they
>will not now accept new members who do charge such fees.
>
Excellent!
But I do wonder how they will interpret this,
For example, in today's mail, I received a letter from an agent by the
name of Betty Marks, who is a member of AAR and, according to my 1994 LMP
charges a "criticism fee for unpublished writers", but otherwise
apparently charges no fees (at least, there is no indication to the
contrary in the LMP entry.) Said person will happily read one of my
typescripts, but wants me to send her $300 (yes, you read that right)
before she will do so. This sure sounds like a reading fee to me. I
wonder if she will still be a member of AAR next year, and, if so, I
wonder if she will change her practice in any way.
Faisal Lutchmedial
wrote:
DRE> For example, in today's mail, I received a letter from an agent by the
DRE> name of Betty Marks, who is a member of AAR and, according to my
DRE> 1994 LMP charges a "criticism fee for unpublished writers", but
DRE> otherwise apparently charges no fees (at least, there is no
DRE> indication to the contrary in the LMP entry.) Said person will
DRE> happily read one of my typescripts, but wants me to send her
DRE> $300 (yes, you read that right) before she will do so. This sure
DRE> sounds like a reading fee to me.
I have had the same problem several times. Literary agents who want you to
send your work to be "evaluated" by their "professionals". And the cost is
ussually around $300. The way I think you should go (and the way I have) is
get the 95 guide to lit. agents and only send querys to non-fee charging
companies. And send a lot. Inevitably, there will be many responces asking
for that critism fee. Send more. If your work is truly worthy, someone will
want it. Believe in yourself and your work, and be persistant.
As for '96, the evaluation fee will become popular among agents who used to
have reading fees. They will simply not accept anything without that fee, no
matter how good they think it is. That, at least, is what I think will
happen. A fee is a fee, and they want the $.
BTW: I used to think that the reading fee was fair, but after much
consideration I have decided that I was wrong. I have heard many bad things
lately about agents who ask for a reading fee, and or a evaluation fee, or
whatever fee (other than photocopying fees and other buisness related costs).
My advice is to stay away from them completely, and don't let your
frustration cause you to send 300 bucks on a waste of time.
- sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered).
Kathryn Graham & John Coxon
>consideration I have decided that I was wrong. I have heard many bad things
>lately about agents who ask for a reading fee, and or a evaluation fee, or
>whatever fee (other than photocopying fees and other buisness related costs).
> My advice is to stay away from them completely, and don't let your
>frustration cause you to send 300 bucks on a waste of time.
>
>- sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered).
>
Just FYI--
It is my understanding (by no means infallible!) that an agency signatory
to the Writers Guild of America agreement is not *allowed* to charge a
reading fee. It is felt that a "reading fee" agent is getting their
primary income from said fees as opposed to their commission upon selling
your work.
If you call WGA (I think their LA number is 310/550-1000), they will tell
you how to obtain a list of their signatory agencies. The last time I
sent for it, I believe it was $2.00 and an SASE. Well worth it!
Good luck!
Kate
*************************************************************************
John T. Coxon * Wordsmyths Int'l * Kathryn A. Graham
Offering services to the business and film communities.
http://www.pic.net/~wdsmyths/home.html
Powell Hamner
"Sarah E. Bewley" <afn0...@freenet.ufl.edu> writes:
>
>
>
>On 6 Jun 1995 THERES...@delphi.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
called me
>> this morning. She called collect. <big snip.>
>>
fee. And
>> above all, they use contracts. The are willing to tell you a bit
about
>> themselves and their experience or, at the very least, send you
something
>> about themselves.
>>
in big
>> red letters across the top. This person was not recommended to me
and I
>> admit I went off my usual list for this project, which I will never
do
>> again. :)
>>
>I had a similar experience with this woman several years ago. I
checked
>into her and could find no-one for whom she'd ever SOLD a book. I
think
>she lives on reading fees and such.
>
>My opinion is that she is a big-time rip-off artist who feeds on the
>ignorance of beginning writers.
>
>Fortunately I was not a beginner so all she got me for was a phone
call.
>
>Sarah Bewley
How do you find an agent? When do you need to have one for children's
stories? I have a book out and I don't have an agent. Will publishers
not publish something that's not *agented*?
Erin
Sarah E. Bewley
On 17 Jun 1995, Powell Hamner wrote:
> How do you find an agent? When do you need to have one for children's
> stories? I have a book out and I don't have an agent. Will publishers
> not publish something that's not *agented*?
> Erin
It is getting harder to find either an agent or a publisher without an agent.
To get an agent, try going through the agents section of the Literary
Market Place (LMP). Most libraries have a copy. Pick ones that don't
charge reading fees and that sell work like yours. Query them with a
letter explaining your experience and enclose no more than about 20-30
pages of your manuscript. Be sure to enclose a SASE (self-addressed,
stamped envelope) so they will be sure to respond.
Then hope for the best.
There are publishing houses that will looked at unagented work. You'll
have to research something like the WRITERS MARKET to find out which ones.
Good luck.
Sarah Bewley
siou...@delphi.com
>w...@teleport.com (William S. Lovell) wrote:
>
>>Sccondly, the 1995 Guide to Literary Agents (Holm/Writer's Digest
>>Books, p 10) reports a policy that will be in effect on Jan. 1, 1996,
>>which is that AAR (Association of Autthors' Representatives)
>>members will be prohibited from charging readers fees, and .they
>>will not now accept new members who do charge such fees.
be some way
to get crooked agents out of the system, or at least to clean up their act.
Even though charging a reading
fee probably isn't illegal, misrepresentation and "bait and switch" are.
Sue
ciphe...@delphi.com
Sure, it costs agents/editors/publishers money to read manuscripts.
What does it cost them if they don't read anything?
How much oil does Exxon pump if it doesn't go prospecting?
I call that "the cost of staying in business."
maug...@cwis.isu.edu
Kathryn Graham & John Coxon <wdsm...@pic.net> wrote:
>> My advice is to stay away from them completely, and don't let your
>>frustration cause you to send 300 bucks on a waste of time.
Hey, folks, let's start a protection service here and name the names of
bad agents/agents posure. Better, send their e-mail addresses so these
predators can be mobbed with cumbersome posts.
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
--
Jackie Johnson-Maughan
Pocatello, Idaho
STANDARD DISCLAIMER
ice...@slip.net
>
>Sure, it costs agents/editors/publishers money to read manuscripts.
>
>What does it cost them if they don't read anything?
Many publishers no longer read unsolicited. No return on investment,
and they discovered they could shift the burden to the agents.
As for the agent, the cost of not reading is very little. Agents find
ninety five percent of their clients through word of mouth,
referrals, and authors switching.
>How much oil does Exxon pump if it doesn't go prospecting?
You think Exxon pays for that? Nope, you do -- in the eventual cost
of gas and oil. It's why, when the world cost of oil drops too low,
US prospectors simply shut down.
Who do you think pays for an agent's time spent reading all those
worthless manuscripts?
His paying clients, that's who. (Not that I really mind, but you
ought to understand it ain't free.)
Best,
Bill
W. T. Quick | Iceberg Productions | ice...@slip.net
Science Fiction Writers of America | The Authors Guild
The shameless self-promotion can be found at:
http://www.slip.net/~iceberg/quick1.htm
BX...@cunyvm.cuny.edu
nominees to the list of agents/agencies to avoid like the plague:-
1. Richard Curtis (He'll try to get you to buy his book, HOW TO BE YOUR OWN
LITERARY AGENT. Despite the fact that the only conclusion to be reached,
upon reading it, is that you CAN'T be your own literary agent.)
2. Alex Jackinson -- an ante-diluvian chap who, like Curtis, will try to get
you to buy a pointless autobiography that he wrote. He will make little or
no effort to market your ms.
3. The Scott Meredith Agency. The less said, the better.
4. Daniel King -- somewhere in the frozen wastes of Wisconsin. I remember
contacting his agency, back in 1992, mainly because their entry in LMP said
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about fees of any kind. WHen they replied to me, and
agreed to read my ms., they wanted to charge $300. No way.
5. George Diskent -- in L.A. When I sent them a query-letter, with a brief
synopsis and an SASE, they mailed the whole damn thing back to me, without
ever even bothering to open the envelope and read its contents.
6. Peter Miller/PMA -- a pompous windbag if ever there was. He'll charge you
a reading-fee of at least $300, then, like Curtis, will try to get you to
buy some book he 'wrote' -- ironically, a book on how to get published!!
7. Allison Picard -- in Provincetown, MA. After reading my ms, she sent it
back with a note saying that, considering today's highly competitive mar-
ket, she didn't see how she could possibly take me on as a client unless I
gave here a guarantee, in writing, that my novel (a mystery) would be an
immediate best-seller.
8. Patricia Teal -- in LA. Her remark, after reading a 2-1/2-page synopsis of
my first novel, was that she couldn't possibly imagine any publisher wanting
to publish, or any reader wanting to read, a mystery novel set in Britain
that was not written by a British writer.
I suppose that other writers, likewise, have their favorite "horror stories"
of their experiences with agents and publishers.
I suppose, also, that other new writers have their lists of agents to be
avoided like the plague.
I just wanted to share mine with all of you -- hopefully, it will make your
own endeavors a bit easier.
D. R. Evans
>For the benefit of all interested parties, I'd like to add my own
>nominees to the list of agents/agencies to avoid like the plague:-
>
Hmmm... wait a minute.... yes, there's definitely an idea forming in my
overworked brain.
Could it possibly be that the Internet might actually be useful???
How about we pool our resources and generate a list of agents whom we
feel are not worthy of a query letter?
These may not necessarily be BAD agents; maybe they are simply ones who
simply discourage new writers so strongly as to be unlikely prospects.
I often don't really mind querying agents whom others have doubts about;
but knowing that people have had bad experiences with a particular agent
means that I am better able to place the response I get in some sort of
context.
Alexander von Thorn
> For the benefit of all interested parties, I'd like to add my own
> nominees to the list of agents/agencies to avoid like the plague:-
Gee, sounds like someone's collected a few rejection letters.
--
AvT
ice...@slip.net
>For the benefit of all interested parties, I'd like to add my own
>nominees to the list of agents/agencies to avoid like the plague:-
>
> LITERARY AGENT. Despite the fact that the only conclusion to be reached,
> upon reading it, is that you CAN'T be your own literary agent.)
Sorry, have to take issue with this. Curtis is my agent. He never
asked me to buy his book -- although I did buy it after running across
it in a local bookstore, and found it valuable.
Now. Richard quadrupled the advances I'd been getting, wrote me much
better contracts than my previous agent, and has been both supportive
and involved in developing my career. Not to mention that he has the
resources to do a very good job of marketing my stuff. Just recently
he sold one of my out of print novels in Russia, of all places. In
short, he vastly increased my income from my writing.
He is well connected in Hollywood, an officer of the respected
Association of Author's Representives, and as knowledgable as anybody
about the NYC publishing scene. He has access to everybody.
Moreover, he is respected by his peers. There are authors who don't
like him, but your characterization of him as some sort of scurrilous
character is way off the mark.
In fact, your picture of him is so erroneous it sound to me like sour
grapes. Did you take a shot at him and get turned down?
BX...@cunyvm.cuny.edu
unprofessionally, and unnecessarily, nasty, sarcastic, a/o virtiolic.
BX...@cunyvm.cuny.edu
Maybe -- but if so, soured by what I consider to be your precious agent's
cavalier treatment, to wit:-
1. I first contact Mr. Curtis, with a query-letter, brief (2-1/2 pp)
synopsis, AND the customary SASE, beginning of April, 1988. Two months
passed. No reply. I contacted him again, and got a reply -- a hastily
scribble "Not interested" on a piece of scratch paper.
2. February or March of 1992 -- sent out another batch of query-letters,
incl. one to your agent -- all with SASE's. Again -- no reply.
3. One of the letters in that mailing was to an agent named Richard Novack,
from whom I did not get a reply. Three or four months later, I finally
got a reply -- from Curtis, telling me that Mr. Novack was deceased, his
agency disbanded, and his former clients now inherited by other agents.
The query-letter that I had sent to the late Mr. Novack had this come to
Curtis's attention; Curtis then (A) passed my query-letter and synopsis to
Scott Meredith; and (B) tried to sell me a copy of his own mis-titled book,
"HOW TO BE YOUR OWN LITERARY AGENT." -- mistitled for the simple reason
that the basic thesis of the book is that authors simply CAN'T be their own
literary agents.
Perhaps Mr. Curtis has been a bit more courteous and professional with you than
he has been with me. I put his name on that list for the same reason that I
put those others -- because I found him wanting in courtesy and professionl-
ism, and I hope that other writers looking for agents might be forewarned, and
thus fore-armed.
The fact that you seem to have benefitted considerably from your author-agent
relationship with Mr. Curtis does not, will not, and cannot change the fact
that he made an entirely different impression on me. Just as the fact that he
made such a negative impression on me probably doesn't, won't, and can't change
your own impression of him.
Rick and Susan Waugh
>Subject: Re: Agent to AVOID: Richard Curtis? Not.
>From: <BX...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
>Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 13:12:14 EDT
literary agents.
>
>Perhaps Mr. Curtis has been a bit more courteous and professional with you than
>he has been with me. I put his name on that list for the same reason that I
>put those others -- because I found him wanting in courtesy and professionl-
>ism, and I hope that other writers looking for agents might be forewarned, and
>thus fore-armed.
>
>
cents worth. I sent a book to Mr. Curtis several years ago, that he took on,
even though my total published works consisted of a bunch of magazine articles
and one short story. He did his best to sell that book: I have the rejection
letters to prove it. I don't think it was anything he did that precluded a
sale: he did his best by an unpublished writer.
I sent him another book a few years ago. He read it and sent it back, telling
me it was silly, and I should stick to my knitting, that is, something in the
style of the first book I had sent. He was right: the book was silly, but he
certainly was neither discourteous, nor cavalier.
I'm working on another book, that I'm going to send to him as soon as it's
done, and I would be pleased if he would take it on...
Alexander von Thorn
> More than a few, Mr. von Thorn. And at least a couple of them very
> unprofessionally, and unnecessarily, nasty, sarcastic, a/o virtiolic.
1. Please understand that if a whole list of agents is responding to you
in a similar fashion, you are the common point in all these interactions.
The problem you are encountering might not be at the other end of all
these relationships.
2. It is my understanding that there are basically two ways to get an
agent. One is through connections, the other is to get an offer on a first
book from a publisher. Sending unsolicited manuscripts to them is just not
a very useful option; editors are generally more qualified and more
interested in evaluating unpublished writers.
3. When you say "so-and-so's a jerk", you are placing your reputation
against theirs. You may not end up on the winning end of this comparison,
so you should be careful with it.
It's very true that some "agents" are unqualified and unprofessional. But
when you start to attack people with a good repuation, well, perhaps you
see the problem.
AvT
Alexander von Thorn
> Sour grapes, Bill?
>
> Maybe -- but if so, soured by what I consider to be your precious agent's
> cavalier treatment, to wit:-
>
> 1. I first contact Mr. Curtis, with a query-letter, brief (2-1/2 pp)
> synopsis, AND the customary SASE, beginning of April, 1988. Two months
> passed. No reply. I contacted him again, and got a reply -- a hastily
> scribble "Not interested" on a piece of scratch paper.
The question is, do agents have a duty to reply to unsolicited mail?
Especially the most successful ones, who already have as much business
from the best writers in the business as they need, and the connections to
find new writers without having to look at their mailbox?
I have a friend who's represented by Curtis. My friend's biggest complaint
lately is that Curtis got him an advance of "only" $10,000 on a book from
a newish publisher; the book is a new subgenre for my friend. The rest of
us should have such problems, eh?
I've made this point about reputation before; on the one hand, we have
Robert Sawyer's article about landing an agent in the June issue of
Alouette, the newsletter for Canadian members of SFWA, talking about the
better agents in the business with Curtis's name at the top of the list.
On the other hand, you are telling us you've sent a few manuscripts to
Curtis that were of a quality that didn't even merit a reply from him.
Readers may draw more than one conclusion from this. One is that he
doesn't have the best manner with writers with no credentials. The other
is that he's evaluated your work and found it not worthy of comment. Is it
wise for you to share that with the world?
Were I a client, I'd much rather he spend his time working for people
who've shown they can do the job than with wannabes who haven't.
--
AvT
BX...@cunyvm.cuny.edu
I have to take issue with your reply to my posting on several counts.
1. You said, "You are telling us you've sent a few manuscripts to Curtis that
were of a quality that didn't merit a reply from him."
I never sent him any manuscripts, nor did I ever say or imply that I had.
2. You said:- "The question is, do agents have a duty to reply to unsolicited
mail? Especially the most successful ones, who already have as much busi-
ness from the best writers in the business, and the connections to find new
writers without having to look at any in their mail box?"
Does that mean that once an agent becomes successful, that success frees
him or her from showing even the most basic courtesy to beginners who are
trying to market their manuscripts? You certainly seem to be saying that.
3. You said:- "Readers may draw more than one conclusion from this. One is
that he doesn't have the best manner with writers with no credentials.
The other is that he's evaluated your work and found it not worthy of
Only readers who failed to read both my postings would or could ever come
to this second conclusion of yours -- a conclusion that is totally unfound-
ed, since it has no connection whatsoever with anything that I said in
either of my two postings.
Anyone who had bothered to read them -- and read them CAREFULLY -- could
not, and would not, have failed to note that I NEVER said that Mr. Curtis
had ever read, critiqued, or evaluated any manuscript that I've written.
I never said it -- even even remotely IMPLIED it -- for the very plain and
and simple reason that he never saw any of them, nor did he ever ask to see
them. If you had bothered to read my two postings as carefully as you
should have, before posting a reply, you would have read that my main rea-
sons for including Curtis's name on that list were (A) when I first sent
him a query-letter, synopsis, and an SASE, he never bothered to reply;
(B) when I sent him a follow-up, with a copy of my original letter, he was
apprently too busy to do more than scribble a "Not interested" on a piece
of scratch-paper; and (C) when a query-letter that I had sent to another
agent found its way to Mr. Curtis, he forwarded it to Scott Meredith, then
tried to sell me his book, HOW TO BE YOUR OWN LITERARY AGENT.
I had, by this time actually read it three times, and came to unavoidable
conclusion that one cannot be one's own literary agent.
4. You said:- "Were I a client, I'd much rather that he spend his time working
for people who;ve shown they can do the job than with wannabes who haven't."
didn't read my initial postings carefully; second, that in your hasty gloss-
ing over them, you jumped to some hasty and unfounded conclusions; and, from
this particular remark, you betray what sounds like an utter contempt for
lowly "wannabes."
They certainly will have a difficult time showing that "they can do the
job," when faced with the arrogance and contempt that you betray in your
remark.
Likewise, when you write that as a client, you'd "much rather tha he (i.e.
your agent) spend his time working for people who've shown they can do
the job than with wannabes who haven't" ... I simply can't help wondering,
Mr. Von Thorn -- how in the world could or would those people who've "shown
they can do the job" ever possible have done so, if someone hadn't been
ready, willing, and able to take a risk with them?
One thing seems certain -- you would probably never take such a risk.
Have a nice day.
qquit
qquit
i cms
Lynn Berkowitz
:In article <95177.13...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>, <BX...@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> wrote:
:> 1. I first contact Mr. Curtis, with a query-letter, brief (2-1/2 pp)
:> synopsis, AND the customary SASE, beginning of April, 1988. Two months
:> passed. No reply. I contacted him again, and got a reply -- a hastily
:> scribble "Not interested" on a piece of scratch paper.
:The question is, do agents have a duty to reply to unsolicited mail?
:Especially the most successful ones, who already have as much business
:from the best writers in the business as they need, and the connections to
:find new writers without having to look at their mailbox?
:On the other hand, you are telling us you've sent a few manuscripts to
:Curtis that were of a quality that didn't even merit a reply from him.
:Readers may draw more than one conclusion from this. One is that he
:doesn't have the best manner with writers with no credentials. The other
:is that he's evaluated your work and found it not worthy of comment. Is it
:wise for you to share that with the world?
:Were I a client, I'd much rather he spend his time working for people
:who've shown they can do the job than with wannabes who haven't.
I am a yet-to-be-published novelist who was represented by Richard Curtis from
April 1993 to October 1994. At that time the agency had to discontinue my
representation because my agent, Laura Cifelli, had quit to become an editor at
the romance division at Dell.
I was referred to the Curtis agency through e-mail friends on the GEnie forum
who had read some of my novel. I sent a cold query to Curtis, mentioning only
that these people had recommended his agency.
All I can say is that I have received nothing but the most considerate and
courteous treatment from Curtis. They helped me through two MAJOR revisions of
my novel, and submitted it to five major publishers. Yes, I am disappointed that
they had to "drop" me but it is not because they felt that my work was not
worthwhile, but because of turnover at the agency, they do not have enough
people to handle all the submissions.
Right now I am trying to find another agent, using Richard Curtis as a referral.
:--
:AvT
Lynn
Alexander von Thorn
> Does that mean that once an agent becomes successful, that success frees
> him or her from showing even the most basic courtesy to beginners who are
> trying to market their manuscripts? You certainly seem to be saying that.
I deal with people in Hollywood regularly; some of them also happen to
represent authors as well. I have found that the time they give people is
directly proportional to clout, reputation, and the amount of money they
think you can make for them.
> Only readers who failed to read both my postings would or could ever come
> to this second conclusion of yours -- a conclusion that is totally unfound-
> ed, since it has no connection whatsoever with anything that I said in
> either of my two postings.
>
> Anyone who had bothered to read them -- and read them CAREFULLY
Again, you assume more interest in your writing than exists.
> -- could
> not, and would not, have failed to note that I NEVER said that Mr. Curtis
> had ever read, critiqued, or evaluated any manuscript that I've written.
I'm assuming you wrote the synopsis? Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
> I had, by this time actually read it three times, and came to unavoidable
> conclusion that one cannot be one's own literary agent.
I haven't read his book, but it would seem two things are required. One is
a knowledge of the business and people involved, the other is a knowledge
of literary contracts. Both of these can be learned.
A lot of professional writers do act as their own agents, if they happen
to have a skill in that area. Some even represent their colleagues.
> 3 things are obvious from your posting, Mr. Von Thorn. First, the fact you
> didn't read my initial postings carefully;
I gave them the due consideration all Usenet posts warrant.
> second, that in your hasty glossing over them, you jumped to some
hasty and unfounded conclusions;
You didn't get a positive response. You feel you were treated unfairly.
Oh, you sent a synopsis without any sample chapters. Not really relevant.
He made a decision based on what you sent him.
> and, from
> this particular remark, you betray what sounds like an utter contempt for
> lowly "wannabes."
Perhaps, but I make a distinction between "wannabes" and aspiring writers.
Would-be professionals learn the business end of their profession;
"wannabes" want the glory without the sweat, and they expect the world to
cater to them. The real world doesn't have the time.
> They certainly will have a difficult time showing that "they can do the
> job," when faced with the arrogance and contempt that you betray in your
> remark.
What you call "arrogance" I call a "jerk filter". What you call "contempt"
I call "impatience with people who expect more attention than they've
earned".
The fact is that when someone *has* shown they can do the job *and* they
have more work than they can handle, it serves no purpose for them to
waste time on unpublished writers.
> Likewise, when you write that as a client, you'd "much rather tha he (i.e.
> your agent) spend his time working for people who've shown they can do
> the job than with wannabes who haven't" ... I simply can't help wondering,
> Mr. Von Thorn -- how in the world could or would those people who've "shown
> they can do the job" ever possible have done so, if someone hadn't been
> ready, willing, and able to take a risk with them?
Very simple. First question is: Does the writer have an offer from a
publisher? It's the publishers' job to take risks. The agent's job is
merely to ensure that writers get as much money as possible from
publishers.
> One thing seems certain -- you would probably never take such a risk.
There are some agents who have the skill, patience, time, and temperament
to find and cultivate unpublished writers and bring them to market. You're
right, I doubt I'd be one of them.
And yet, all of the writers of my acquaintance have gotten their agents
either through recommendation or with an offer from a publisher in hand.
If I got into the business, that'd be the way I'd look for clients.
But really the only reason I commented was to suggest that you might not
want to be known as a complainer. If that really is the image you want to
project, that's your business.
BX...@cunyvm.cuny.edu
I just have the pleasure of reading your reply to my comments on your
previous posting. And, once again, you display an overwhelming and
unwarranted arrogance and contempt for those of us who are trying to find
either an agent or a publisher for our manuscripts.
What else is new?