depressing stories?
Shivanmyst
Hello
I was simply wondering if anyone had any depressing stories, personal or
written by another. I really love reading them, and I would love it
someone would post any. Thanks
Stan (the Man)
Are you serious??? Just what we need. You'll gleefully devour them and
the rest of us will go kill ourselves. Perfect!
Stan (Ho-Ho-Pffft!)
Paul Shoemaker
shiva...@aol.com (Shivanmyst) so eloquently wrote:
>Hello
>I was simply wondering if anyone had any depressing stories, personal or
>written by another. I really love reading them, and I would love it
>someone would post any. Thanks
Hmmmmmm.... That's pretty depressing in itself :)
Kristin (Prozac, anyone?)
Serdar Yegulalp
shiva...@aol.com (Shivanmyst) wrote:
>Hello
>
>I was simply wondering if anyone had any depressing stories, personal or
>written by another. I really love reading them, and I would love it
>someone would post any. Thanks
First I was born. Then I died. The end.
____________________________________________________________________________
sye...@ix.netcom.com IRC: GinRei
http://serdar.home.ml.org another worldly device...
____________________________________________________________________________
you can crush me as I speak/write on rocks what you feel/now feel this truth
ProNewsGrl
Honey, is your life going so peachy fantastic that you need some
depression in your life? Turn on the news. That oughta do it fer ya.
Jillanne
Laura
I've heard that the holidays are a time when depression and suicide are
at their highest. Depressing stories? Do the STORIES have to be
depressing now? Tis the season or something?
Depressing stories...try any holiday spent with my family, where my aunt
asks for the receipts before she even opens the presents...where my uncle
looks at his watch every thirty seconds as soon as you walk in the
door...where there are cousins aged 12, 14, 15, and 18, none of whom can
construct a sentence or do anything but whine about how they don't want to
bethere...where my great-uncle tells completely unintelligible stories
that last for days...where there are more ailments than presents...where
I am asked constantly if I'm going to teach (because apparently that's all
one can do with an English degree)...where my current lack of a boyfriend
renders me completely without status - even the 12 year-old has a
significant other...where the cousin who had to drop out of Wharton
because he knocked some girl up sits loaded down with four thousand baby
apparati...and no Tickle Me Elmo.
More frustrating than depressing, I suppose, but then again, I only see
these people once a year...thanksgiving was spent at a Holiday inn in West
Virginia and was thoroughly enjoyable.
And for that I am thankful. The family-jeebies have pretty much subsided.
-Laura (I know families who have wild parties with drinking and dancing
that last into the wee hours - these people ENJOY spending time together
- and they're RELATED?)
Helen E. Weidner
Someone asked for depressing stories, saying s/he liked to read them.
I have a friend who paints nightmarish scenes, and occasionally sells
one.
My question -- what is the appeal? What are the internal reactions
that some people get from depressing art that attracts them to it?
Helen W.
Serdar Yegulalp
The only art that is depressing is the incompetently executed kind.
Everything else is uplifting and exhilarating in its own way.
Helen E. Weidner
In <32cf3960...@nntp.netcruiser> sye...@ix.netcom.com (Serdar
Yegulalp) writes:
>
>hwei...@ix.netcom.com(Helen E. Weidner ) wrote:
>
>>Someone asked for depressing stories, saying s/he liked to read them.
>>I have a friend who paints nightmarish scenes, and occasionally sells
>>one.
>>
>>My question -- what is the appeal? What are the internal reactions
>>that some people get from depressing art that attracts them to it?
>
>The only art that is depressing is the incompetently executed kind.
>Everything else is uplifting and exhilarating in its own way.
It occurred to me while watching the olympics a while back that
athletic ability is wonderful to watch, in the abstract, but use that
same athletic ability to rob a bank, kill the bystanders, and escape,
and we call out the cops to stop that very activity.
If athletic ability is praised or condemned according to the use to
which it is put, why wouldn't the same rule apply to art?
Helen W.
Helen E. Weidner
>>Someone asked for depressing stories, saying s/he liked to read them.
>>I have a friend who paints nightmarish scenes, and occasionally sells
>>one.
>>
>>My question -- what is the appeal? What are the internal reactions
>>that some people get from depressing art that attracts them to it?
>The only art that is depressing is the incompetently executed kind.
>Everything else is uplifting and exhilarating in its own way.
My question is, why do some people like/prefer art that portrays
depressing themes?
Helen W.
sal...@fuse.net
>
> My question is, why do some people like/prefer art that portrays
> depressing themes?
>
> Helen W.
Catharsis?
saludo
Jacqui
> The only art that is depressing is the incompetently executed kind.
> Everything else is uplifting and exhilarating in its own way.
Edvard Munch. Deeply depressing but stunningly executed art. The end of
"Se7en" - stunning film, not in the least bit uplifting or exhilarating.
Jac
--
"Those men over there talking about me think I'm paranoid"
Robert Rankin "A Dog Called Demolition"
Happy Hogswatch!
Hound of Cullen
In article <5aokbf$7...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
hwei...@ix.netcom.com(Helen E. Weidner ) wrote:
:It occurred to me while watching the olympics a while back that
:athletic ability is wonderful to watch, in the abstract, but use that
:same athletic ability to rob a bank, kill the bystanders, and escape,
:and we call out the cops to stop that very activity.
:
:If athletic ability is praised or condemned according to the use to
:which it is put, why wouldn't the same rule apply to art?
:
:Helen W.
Sorry, you're comparison isn't accurate. Art can't kill. It might
influence someone to do violence, but the artist (unlike your criminal
athelete above) isn't taking an active role in the crime.
As to praising or condemning artistic ability according to the use it is
put, _who is doing the condemning? The government? I don't want them
telling me what good art is. Private groups? They already do. Find one
that matches your artistic and political ideology and join the front lines.
But realize that there'll be people actively opposing such limitations on
artists.
Hound (like me, f'rinstance) of Cullen
--
The man who never alters his opinion is like the stagnant water and breeds
Reptiles of the mind.
--William Blake "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"
Hound of Cullen
In article <5aokkq$d...@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>,
hwei...@ix.netcom.com(Helen E. Weidner ) wrote:
[trim]
:My question is, why do some people like/prefer art that portrays
:depressing themes?
:
:Helen W.
If I had to live on a steady diet of uplifting or "happy" art, I would go
mad. There are times when, being depressed or angry, I want to read
depressing or angering works. It isn't all that I read, but there are times
when I don't want to read anything _but a good tragedy.
As a writer, I _need anger and depression (how else can I convincingly
write about a depressed or angry character?). I also need joy and laughter.
I guess, Helen, I'd ask you why you deny the utility and the power of art
that portrays depressing themes?
Hound
Helen E. Weidner
In <zisbo-ya02318000...@info-server.bbn.com> zi...@aol.com
(Hound of Cullen) writes:
>
>In article <5aokkq$d...@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>,
>hwei...@ix.netcom.com(Helen E. Weidner ) wrote:
>
>[trim]
>
>:My question is, why do some people like/prefer art that portrays
>:depressing themes?
>:
>:Helen W.
>
>If I had to live on a steady diet of uplifting or "happy" art, I would
go
>mad. There are times when, being depressed or angry, I want to read
>depressing or angering works. It isn't all that I read, but there are
times
>when I don't want to read anything _but a good tragedy.
>
>As a writer, I _need anger and depression (how else can I convincingly
>write about a depressed or angry character?). I also need joy and
laughter.
>
>I guess, Helen, I'd ask you why you deny the utility and the power of
art
>that portrays depressing themes?
>
>Hound
I'm not denying utility, I'm asking what the utility is. I expect
there may be many different answers.
I'm certainly not denying the power -- watch a depressing movie and I
go home depressed. But I surely don't need art to introduce anger and
depression in my life -- hang around any law office and you will run
into an endless stream of things to be angry or depressed about; pain
-- actual or anticipated -- is why people hire lawyers. Some of the
things I have run into in real life are more angry-making than anything
I have ever read in work of fiction or seen in a movie -- and I have
read and seen a lot of art. Real life is worse, partly because life is
real and the problems and pain don't end after a few hours like a movie
or book does.
And yet, in real life I have the hope that I can help, at least a few
people, at least a little.
Depressing art leaves me exposed to pain with no way to help. The
result seems to me to cause me purposeless pain. Therefore my
puzzlement - do some people like to be depressed? Or does depressing
art have an opposite effect on some, like making them feel good that
their life is not like that, in contrast?
You mention utilites of depressing art. I am asking for a list of
those utilities. I am asking for information not challenging its
existence.
You mention using art to match your mood. That's one utility. What
are some others?
Helen W.
Helen E. Weidner
>:athletic ability is wonderful to watch, in the abstract, but use that
>:same athletic ability to rob a bank, kill the bystanders, and escape,
>:and we call out the cops to stop that very activity.
>:
>:If athletic ability is praised or condemned according to the use to
>:which it is put, why wouldn't the same rule apply to art?
>:
>:Helen W.
>Sorry, you're comparison isn't accurate. Art can't kill. It might
>influence someone to do violence, but the artist (unlike your criminal
>athelete above) isn't taking an active role in the crime.
Isn't the commercial artist who uses his art to tell lies encouraging
the buying of products he knows to be faulty, or the copywriter for
that ad, actively involved in fraud? Snake oil salesmen were/are
artists, too.
>As to praising or condemning artistic ability according to the use it
is put, _who is doing the condemning? The government? I don't want
them telling me what good art is.>
The issue in my mind was not what is good art in the sense of abstract
artistic ability, but why art that is destructive in its effect is
defended by some as good art merely because of the talent lying behind
the harmful words or images. Is it your position that art has no
effect? Or that any effects art has are so mild as to be irrelevant to
life? Or that art can have strong effects on people and society but is
not to considered responsible for those effects? Or something else?
I'm groping for understanding, not challenging any particular thoughts
you may have intended to convey.
>Private groups? They already do. Find one that matches your artistic
and political ideology and join the front lines. But realize that
there'll be people actively opposing such limitations on artists.>
My word choice was poor -- I didn't mean to suggest limitations be
imposed on artists other than in the use of art to commit a crime (like
fraud). I was using an extreme example to puzzle over the tendency of
some artists to claim an absolute value for their products in the
abstract, as if the effects of the art are not to be considered or
commented on. If a scriptwriter believes, for example, that kids
imitate what they see on television, doesn't that artist have a moral
duty to make sure that his art doesn not encourage kids to try
thrill-killing? Or is art, unlike any other human endeavor, to be
exempt from any awarewess of its effects?
Imposed censorship is an entirely different issue from the artist's own
awareness of the effects his/her work can be expected to have on
others.
For example, *I* think spreading creative lies about another person, to
the harm of their reputation, should be socially (whether or not
politically) condemned; but I have heard the creators of such stories
defend them as art that therefore has a right to be circulated free
from criticism.
Again, I am not referring to condemnation or praise by any goverment or
organized group, but more like whether a high school english teacher
would startle and dismay the student's parents if she commended
creative rumor as art and encouraged her students to try that kind of
art. After all a destructive rumor has plot, characterization,
conflict, etc, like any other short story, or the rumor would not
survive. (I almost said a "good rumor", the word good meaning
effective in catching attention and entertaining people, even while bad
in the sense of causing harm.)
Hound of Cullen
In article <5au0gj$m...@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>,
hwei...@ix.netcom.com(Helen E. Weidner ) wrote:
NOTE: I'm going to clip pretty ruthlessly. Helen, if I cut out anything
you feel is important, please tell me.
:>Sorry, you're comparison isn't accurate. Art can't kill. It might
:>influence someone to do violence, but the artist (unlike your criminal
:>athelete above) isn't taking an active role in the crime.
:
:Isn't the commercial artist who uses his art to tell lies encouraging
:the buying of products he knows to be faulty, or the copywriter for
:that ad, actively involved in fraud? Snake oil salesmen were/are
:artists, too.
Okay, I'll grant you that. I still see a difference here. Yes, the writer
who _deliberately tells lies about someting with the intent to defraud is
actively engaged in crime. But I still find a violent crime more horrifying
than a financial crime (this is simply personal observation, and it is why
I didn't consider fraud when replying to your original post).
[snip]
:
:My word choice was poor -- I didn't mean to suggest limitations be
:imposed on artists other than in the use of art to commit a crime (like
:fraud). I was using an extreme example to puzzle over the tendency of
:some artists to claim an absolute value for their products in the
:abstract, as if the effects of the art are not to be considered or
:commented on. If a scriptwriter believes, for example, that kids
:imitate what they see on television, doesn't that artist have a moral
:duty to make sure that his art doesn not encourage kids to try
:thrill-killing? Or is art, unlike any other human endeavor, to be
:exempt from any awarewess of its effects?
I do think the effects of art should be considered and commented upon. I
also think that art (or entertainment) is currently getting more than its
share of blame for problems. It is easy to point at "Violence on TV" and
denounce it while ignoring more fundamental problems. When it comes down
to the individual artist making moral choices, I agree that the artist
should consider the effect of his or her work. But I will not try to
_impose that sort of consideration on an artist. Does that make sense?
I'll consider the moral implications of my own work, but I won't ask you
about your morals or about the choices you made in writing a particular
work. I might not buy the work, and, if I _really don't like it, I might
never buy another work of yours again, but I won't try to stop you from
writing it.
:Imposed censorship is an entirely different issue from the artist's own
:awareness of the effects his/her work can be expected to have on
:others.
Agreed. And I do think that any good artist _will consider, to an extent,
the effect that his/her work may have on others. But I think it is all too
easy to blame something outside ourselves for our personal failings. And
art is an easy target. It is, by its very nature, conspicuous, while other,
greater influences are more subtle.
Anita&Paul
>those utilities. I am asking for information not challenging its
>existence.
>
>You mention using art to match your mood. That's one utility. What
>are some others?
>
>Helen W.
>
Catharsis--I have a low tolerance for depression in myself. If I'm
feeling blue (I've never been truly depressed), I slap "Sophie's
Choice" into the VCR and watch the five-minute scene where she's
forced to make the actual choice. Then I shudder and howl for a
minute or two and I'm back on an even keel. It's like an internal
circuit breaker. I purposely overdose on the sadness and TRIP, I'm
out of the blues.
Validation--This is just a guess since it hasn't happened to me, but
as we all enjoy discovering, from time to time, that others feel/think
as we do. If a person is depressed, then perhaps the mirroring of
that depression in a paiting or a novel validates their experience.
Another use for reading/watching something depressing is that it feels
so good when you stop. A few Diane Arbus photos and when I look up,
the world is sparkly new again.
Aloha Anita
Lorrill Buyens
Jacqui <9615...@brookes.ac.uk>, while summoning a demon, chanted:
>> The only art that is depressing is the incompetently executed kind.
>> Everything else is uplifting and exhilarating in its own way.
>Edvard Munch. Deeply depressing but stunningly executed art. The end of
>"Se7en" - stunning film, not in the least bit uplifting or exhilarating.
A Czech film called "The Shop on Main Street" - ends with the main character
hanging himself due to the accidental death of a confused, elderly woman he'd
promised to look after.
"Broken Lullaby" - A French soldier kills a German one during WW I; goes to
Germany to see the man's family & fiancee to try and expiate the guilt he feels.
"Fury" - The main character is mistaken for a murderer & nearly killed by a
lynch mob; but pretends to be dead in an attempt to have them convicted of his
murder.
Lorrill (If mystery & horror movies count, I could name many more <g>) Buyens
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
| Doctor Fraud |Always believe six|
|Mad Inventor & Purveyor of Pseudopsychology |impossible things |
| Weird Science at Bargain Rates |before breakfast. |
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
|"Where did Robinson Crusoe go | "On a double |
| with Friday on Saturday night?" - Al Jolson | date?" - Me |
----------------------------------------------------------------
Jane Abrams
In article <5attqg$b...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>,
hwei...@ix.netcom.com(Helen E. Weidner ) wrote:
> In <zisbo-ya02318000...@info-server.bbn.com> zi...@aol.com
> (Hound of Cullen) writes:
> >
> >I guess, Helen, I'd ask you why you deny the utility and the power of
> art
> >that portrays depressing themes?
> >
> >Hound
>
> I'm not denying utility, I'm asking what the utility is. I expect
> there may be many different answers.
>
<snip>
>
> Depressing art leaves me exposed to pain with no way to help. The
> result seems to me to cause me purposeless pain. Therefore my
> puzzlement - do some people like to be depressed? Or does depressing
> art have an opposite effect on some, like making them feel good that
> their life is not like that, in contrast?
>
> You mention utilites of depressing art. I am asking for a list of
> those utilities. I am asking for information not challenging its
> existence.
>
> You mention using art to match your mood. That's one utility. What
> are some others?
>
> Helen W.
I think your point about contrast is a large part of why people enjoy
depressing or tragic art. Personally, it not only makes my own personal
misery seem more tolerable, but in a sense it allows me to experience
vicariously misery that I haven't endured. I always walk away from a
depressing movie thinking about how I would feel and behave if faced with
similar circumstances. Perhaps it gives me an opportunity to test or
question my own capacity to endure adversity.
Which leads me to another more obvious point; we can't know joy fully
without knowing suffering. An additional thing that I look for when
thinking about a depressing movie I've just seen is; what could this
character do to bear the pain and find some hope, some redemption in the
situation? Personally, I think it is in the overcoming of tragedy that
gives joy and happiness meaning, dignity and value. I've never known more
satisfaction than when I have accomplished a seemingly insurmountable
task, or overcome tremendous emotional upheaval and survived.
I try not to pick art to match my mood if I'm feeling depressed, it's a
very tempting thing for me to do but it usually ends up magnifying my
dissatisfaction. But, like pain in real life, there are lessons to be
learned from it.
Jane Abrams
Ken Jenks
Helen E. Weidner wrote:
> Depressing art leaves me exposed to pain with no way to help. The
> result seems to me to cause me purposeless pain. Therefore my
> puzzlement - do some people like to be depressed? Or does depressing
> art have an opposite effect on some, like making them feel good that
> their life is not like that, in contrast?
I can tell right now that Helen doesn't like the blues or C&W music. She
probably doesn't like opera, either. Or cyberpunk. Or The Dark Knight.
Or the later Van Goghs.
Helen, some people like dark, depressing art because it reminds them how
bad life isn't. Some people like dark art because it reminds them that
someone, somewhere, suffered, too. Some like it because it speaks to the
dark places of the soul, where only someone who has been in pain can
dwell. Some like it for perversity's sake. Some just plain like it.
The first lesson of art appreciation is that artists (including authors)
are people. They feel the same emotions that normal mortals do, but they
attempt to encapsulate these emotions in their work. A lazy artist can
communicate depression and dispair. We have hundreds of artistic
metaphores and themes that we all associate with dark emotions -- dark
colors, minor keys, ominous phrases, thunder storms. It takes hard work
to convey complicated emotions.
If you don't like depressing stories, what kind of stories DO you like?
Why? What makes it likeable? Must every story have a happy ending?
-- Ken Jenks, Editor-in-chief, Mind's Eye Fiction
http://tale.com/ -- The First Web Publisher
Mind...@tale.com
Terry Grant
It was Sun, 05 Jan 1997 13:24:08 -0500, a day like no other, when
sal...@fuse.net declared...
>>
>> My question is, why do some people like/prefer art that portrays
>> depressing themes?
>>
>> Helen W.
>
>
>Catharsis?
>
>saludo
That's what Aristotle said the purpose of "Tragedy" (in art that is)
is. Most of the things most folks find depressing, I find
enlightening, that is, if the art is up to the task. A piece of art
which seems to TEACH anger and hatred does nothing for me, but one
which explores such themes can be a mind opener. It's part of the
pursuit of "Truth".
Terry