Good Way to Learn Screenwriting?
Asoka Selvarajah
I've heard it said that an excellent way to learn to write in the style of
an author you admire is to copy out several pages of his work longhand. I
know that copywriters do this too with sales letters. Also, the master
painters of the past learnt by copying the works of other master painters.
So, would this also be a good way to learn to write excellent screenplays?
Take one you like and write it out on paper? What do people think?
Asoka Selvarajah.
Gene Harris
>Hello,
>
>I've heard it said that an excellent way to learn to write in the style of
>an author you admire is to copy out several pages of his work longhand. I
>know that copywriters do this too with sales letters. Also, the master
>painters of the past learnt by copying the works of other master painters.
Music composers used to do this also.
>So, would this also be a good way to learn to write excellent screenplays?
>Take one you like and write it out on paper? What do people think?
Interesting idea. Try it, and let us know how it works. I'd be curious to
see what you'd pick up that you wouldn't have gotten just by reading it
several times.
Just don't try it with The Wild Wild West.
Gene
LODGESTE
>Take one you like and write it out on paper? What do people think?
>
Hou about just reading an excellent screenplay then trying to write one of your
own?
Ron Drake
"Asoka Selvarajah" <aso...@libero.it> wrote:
The only way to learn screenwriting is to dream up a story, sit down,
and write it. The more you do it, the better you get.
One aspect of your idea *IS* good: good screenplays are about struc-
ture. Finding a movie with a structure you want to emulate is a very
good way of making your work better. I'm studying "Double Indemnity"
because it approximates something I'm trying to accomplish in my
current screenplay.
HTH
--Ron Drake
*************************************************************************
"Bush wasn't elected; he just won."
-- Kristina D. Olson
*************************************************************************
Asoka Selvarajah
As you have both raised the same point, here is the answer:
The whole point of writing it out longhand, rather than just reading it, is
that you actually get into the writer's head. There is a process of
transmission between hand, pen and brain that cannot be reproduced merely by
reading. If we think and the thoughts end up on paper via our hand and pen,
then to some extent, this process can be reversed. In other words, by
copying out great writing, we gain some of the thoughts and mental processes
of the person who first created it.
You cannot do this merely be reading. However, obviously, continual reading
and analysis of excellent writing is also a vital and indispensable part of
mastering the skill.
As I said, there is a long established process of copying great work in
order to access the thought process of the original master. I know this is
done by some of the best copywriters (i.e. sales letter, junk mail) in the
USA and I believe it is also done by many conventional writers. I was just
interested to know if anyone has ever tried doing this with Screenwriting.
Asoka Selvarajah
"LODGESTE" <lodg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010314170734...@ng-cq1.aol.com...
Tom Wood
is
> that you actually get into the writer's head. There is a process of
> transmission between hand, pen and brain that cannot be reproduced merely
by
> reading
This sounds similar to the reasoning behind making students take notes in
the classroom setting rather than just letting the teacher hand out printed
material. Both seem very inefficient in terms of time and labor, but I
acknowledge that they probably do work for most people most of the time.
Personally, I'm looking forward to having a William Gibson type "microsoft"
socket installed in my head. Yeah, yeah......download THIS.
Tom
Raanmed
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I've heard it said that an excellent way to learn to write in the style of
>>an author you admire is to copy out several pages of his work longhand. I
>>know that copywriters do this too with sales letters. Also, the master
>>painters of the past learnt by copying the works of other master painters.
>>Take one you like and write it out on paper? What do people think?<<
I'm willing to bet that more people do or have done this than admit it. You're
basically using a previously written script as a template; seeing where all the
beats are; how soon the protagonist gets to the main setting; where the various
climaxes begin, etc, etc. Add a high concept (of your own) and some original
characters, and shake vigorously. It's like Dramatica without the highblown
theory.
--Ron M.
Adam Fulford
learn to write screenplays, I am very doubtful. Perhaps, initially, such a
method could help one with the "language" of screenplays, but after
familiarity with that, you'd be better off writing your own stuff, then,
reading good screenplays when you'd get more out of them because of your
increased personal understanding (vs. theoretical understanding) of it.
It's like anything, really.
A crude meat-headed analogy:
When you learn to play soccer, sure, you could improve skills mimicking
Brazilian soccer great Pele move-for-move, but if you played in a few actual
games yourself, you'd have a greater appreciation and understanding of the
moves in pro-level games, and get more out of it when watching them than you
did before you participated in games yourself. It's the same with
screenplays.
"Asoka Selvarajah" <aso...@libero.it> wrote in message
news:lDNr6.14171$6W.8...@news.infostrada.it...
Bob Miller
>Hello,
>
>I've heard it said that an excellent way to learn to write in the style of
>an author you admire is to copy out several pages of his work longhand. I
>know that copywriters do this too with sales letters.
As one who wrote copy for many years, I never heard of any copywriter copying
sales letters in longhand, or in anything else!
Bob
Bob Miller
>Hello,
>
>As you have both raised the same point, here is the answer:
>
>The whole point of writing it out longhand, rather than just reading it, is
>that you actually get into the writer's head. There is a process of
>transmission between hand, pen and brain that cannot be reproduced merely by
>reading.
Crap. Please explain this, scientifically.
Bob
Asoka Selvarajah
Thank you for your thoughts.
As regards copywriting, one person who definitely did this and teaches it is
Michael Masterton of American Writers Institute (AWI) in Florida. He is very
well regarded in Copywriting circles, and is responsible for the Oxford Club
sales letter, as just one example of many. I am doing his Copywriting
Masters Course - a 2-year project that costs several thousand dollars.
Writing out top sales letters longhand is a technique he recommends to
really rocket your progress forward. In fact, he goes as far as to say that
beginner copywriters would gain far more benefit at the start from copying
out great sales letters than trying to write their own. I have heard at a
least one other genius copywriter, Ted Nicholas, say the exact same thing.
Of course, they also say you must study many packages too, and also write
your own.
The point is not to develop some sort of artificial dependence; or to
substitute for writing your own Screenplays or studying excellent extant
examples. It is just an added tool that might be of value, and surely one
should use all possible approaches? To neglect any one method of achieving
excellence might be a little like saying, "Study excellent screenplays.
Write and re-write your own. But go to see movies?!... What's the big
deal?"
Obviously, I overstate the case there a lot. However, if you want to develop
excellence, copying is a time-honored way. Why did Bob Dylan look and sound
like Woody Guthrie back in 1963? Why did the future Alice Cooper look and
sound like the Beatles in 1967/68 (Yes, it's true!). Why do technically
excellent artists, master painters like Raphael and others, copy the
paintings of other masters? They could easily go out and pick their own
subjects. The point was not to simply copy the paintings, but to get inside
the mind of the artist - by copying his brush strokes, his use of lighting,
his composition, the way he frames a body against the background. It does
not cramp your style, but rather teaches you how to find your own through
emulating excellence.
I have a book called "Drawing - How To Master The Art" and its entire thesis
is copying. The technical instruction is kept to the minimum, and instead,
you are given numerous examples of good drawing to emulate yourself. In
another area completely, it is often said that if you adopt/mimic the
gestures, postures and facial expressions of another person, you can
virtually tell what they are thinking.
Likewise, in Screenwriting, if a beginner writes useless dialog, one way to
improve might be to find screenplays with dialog that he/she likes, and
simply write it out several times. You surely have to improve just by doing
this, because you train your brain to write like that. I know from personal
experience in learning to write sales letters, this method really works.
You acquire a feel for how long the sentences should be, what sort of words
to use, the rhythm of it, and so on.
The reason for raising this question was to see if this approach is a common
and recommended one in Screenwriting. From the feedback so far, I guess it
is fair to conclude that it is not. Any other thoughts would be welcome.
Regards,
Asoka Selvarajah
"Bob Miller" <bami...@texas.net> wrote in message
news:ZxywOombIe9i=6lJlnTp...@4ax.com...
Joe Myers
But for most people, the key to good writing is re-writing. Editing,
polishing. Can't imagine how copying a finished piece could possibly help
someone with one of the most essential parts of the craft.
Joe Myers
"That's not writing, that's typing."
-- Capote's review of Kerouac
Asoka Selvarajah <aso...@libero.it> wrote in message
news:IHSr6.17693$6W.12...@news.infostrada.it...
STORYNOTES
useful supplement to other approaches.
I don't think it would need to be written in longhand, if the person doing this
is a good typist and more comfortable typing than writing. In fact, the
"copying" should be done in the same manner as the person writes: if that's in
longhand, then he or she should copy in longhand. If on a keyboard, then
he/she should type.
I would say that it probably shouldn't be just one script or one author, but
rather several in somewhat different styles.
Of course one should read scripts, watch and analyze films, read, study (and
sometimes even outline!) articles and books on craft, and of course, write and
get feedback. But in addition to all that, transcribing a few excellent
scripts can indeed be something that would prove very beneficial.
When doing that, one can't help but spot some techniques that otherwise would
escape notice. And to at least some degree, the overall form and feel
inevitably seeps into one's fingers, bones, and brain.
Jeff Newman, StoryNotes
www.storynotes.net
Bob Miller
>Hello Everyone,
>
>Thank you for your thoughts.
>
>As regards copywriting, one person who definitely did this and teaches it is
>Michael Masterton of American Writers Institute (AWI) in Florida. He is very
>well regarded in Copywriting circles, and is responsible for the Oxford Club
>sales letter, as just one example of many. I am doing his Copywriting
>Masters Course - a 2-year project that costs several thousand dollars.
>Writing out top sales letters longhand is a technique he recommends to
>really rocket your progress forward. In fact, he goes as far as to say that
>beginner copywriters would gain far more benefit at the start from copying
>out great sales letters than trying to write their own. I have heard at a
>least one other genius copywriter, Ted Nicholas, say the exact same thing.
>Of course, they also say you must study many packages too, and also write
>your own.
If it works for you, fine, but it's not a widely-used practice in ad circles. As
a matter of fact, I've never heard of it until now.
If this gentleman is charging you thousands of dollars, I would hope you are not
spendig substantial amounts of your study time transcribing ad copy. You're much
better off staring at a blank sheet of paper, sweating blood, and making
something good happen -- on a tight deadline. That's what ad copywriters do for
a living.
If he's making you spend more than a week or two, at the most, at this exercise,
he's laughing all the way to the bank.
You need to be building a portfolio, and you cannot put transcribed ad copy in a
portfolio :-)
Bob
Asoka Selvarajah
Yes, I agree with everything you say. In balance, and in conjunction with
all the usual approaches, it should prove to be an excellent technique to
accelerate one's learning of many important areas that experienced
professional screenwriters have taken years to inculcate.
Thank you for this confirmation.
Regards,
Asoka Selvarajah
"STORYNOTES" <story...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010315132304...@ng-fg1.aol.com...
script bum
> snipped quite a lot of stuff (5kb)
perhaps fewer words allows you to say more in a fixed-length space ...
for instance - "copying others' work helps focus on what they said"
yeah guys, I know ...
of course you can do better than that ... :-)
script bum
Duhhaine Waeker
lecturer on the subject for many years, I have tried to make one point
early-on with all of my students:
You are absolutely and totally unique in all this world. Your experiences
and point-of-view on any given subject are not only different, but
essential, and that should be what gives true worth to your writing. Your
personal style will evolve over time and it will be yours -- not a
counterfeit of another's
Copying somebody else's manuscript not only strikes me as boring and
downright laborious, but I question any long-term value in the exercise.
A far better use of your time would be to see as many movies as you can, and
once you "connect" with a handful of good ones (your definition, not mine)
use the DVD or the VCR and study these films for the different elements --
writing, acting, directing, cinematography, costuming, set decorating and
art direction, and so on.
If you can locate a few good screenplays in manuscript form, reading them
for content, form and style can be useful, too.
But the bottom line in learning to write screenplays or anything else, is to
simply WRITE! And then REWRITE and REWRITE AGAIN until you have an
acceptable piece to present. The true art of writing is in re-writing and
while writing can be fun, it is never altogether easy.
Keep in mind through all of this that screenwriting is a storytelling
process using the written language, so you should be comfortable and
proficient in English (or whatever language you prefer) and that means
spelling, grammar and syntax!
The next thing to consider is that this written language is not used to
communicate verbally, but indirectly by creating visualizations -- hence,
visual grammar -- that become a universal language unto itself.
As with the learning of any language, all of this requires time, patience
and study to learn the rules and to understand just how far those rules can
be bent or broken without losing the audience in the process.
There are dozens of courses and books on the subject available on the
internet and elsewhere and it is Caveat Emptor! Let the Buyer Beware! Look
them over and if they promise to make it easy, or that you can start packing
for an eminent move to Hollywood, I can only counsel you to steer clear.
My textbooks and course materials, along with other selected information
from reliable sources will soon be available at: www.movieprofessor.com
and if you will drop me a note, I'll be glad to put you on the list to
notify when we are at long last up and running. Good scripts and apparently
good websites take time.
Meanwhile, ask questions, remembering there is no such thing as "dumb"
questions -- only "dumb" answers!
It has been said that, "He who asks a question may appear ignorant for a
minute, but he who fails to ask a question will be ignorant for a lifetime!"
So keep the questions coming.
The Movie Professor
"Asoka Selvarajah" <aso...@libero.it> wrote in message
news:lDNr6.14171$6W.8...@news.infostrada.it...
trajan
>
> Hello,
>
> I've heard it said that an excellent way to learn to write in the style of
> an author you admire is to copy out several pages of his work longhand. I
> know that copywriters do this too with sales letters.
I've been a creative director/copy for a very long time and I'd
fire anyone who ripped off someone else's style/content unless
the creative direction specifically called for parody. Any
copywriter who can't write a simple sales letter shouldn't be in
the biz!
Trajan