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Re: Oyster and Contactless on NR
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e27002 aurora
Aug 27, 2017, 8:12:17 AM8/27/17
to
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 12:43:30 -0500, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
wrote:
>I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in
>London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts
>given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat
>haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration
>status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the
>ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.
>
>But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless
>became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder
>because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard
>discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless
>travel.
>
>So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My
>question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against
>their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.
As the hub at the center of the UK's rail network, I have never
understood why London's Rapid Transit system must be the exception to
the rules apply to the rest of the UK's railways. Its ticketing
arrangements should work in line with the other railways.
wrote:
>I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in
>London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts
>given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat
>haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration
>status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the
>ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.
>
>But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless
>became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder
>because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard
>discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless
>travel.
>
>So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My
>question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against
>their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.
As the hub at the center of the UK's rail network, I have never
understood why London's Rapid Transit system must be the exception to
the rules apply to the rest of the UK's railways. Its ticketing
arrangements should work in line with the other railways.
e27002 aurora
Aug 27, 2017, 8:39:25 AM8/27/17
to
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 13:28:03 +0100, Robert <copper...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>I'm confused. Why have you posted the same text with two slightly
>different subject lines a few hours apart?
Typo in a group name first time thru.
>
>And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
>geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
>passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
>the UK?
Why do the ticketing systems of one TOC work on all TOCs? It is for
passenger convenience. The London Underground is the hub of the
passenger rail system. As YOU say it accounts for half of the UK's
passenger journeys. Many of those journeys start outwith their
system, yet they reserve the right to be an exception to the rules.
>
>And do you not think the systems will evolve to remove some of the
>idiosyncrasies
Hope springs eternal.
wrote:
>different subject lines a few hours apart?
Typo in a group name first time thru.
>
>And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
>geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
>passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
>the UK?
Why do the ticketing systems of one TOC work on all TOCs? It is for
passenger convenience. The London Underground is the hub of the
passenger rail system. As YOU say it accounts for half of the UK's
passenger journeys. Many of those journeys start outwith their
system, yet they reserve the right to be an exception to the rules.
>
>And do you not think the systems will evolve to remove some of the
>idiosyncrasies
Hope springs eternal.
Roland Perry
Aug 27, 2017, 9:06:03 AM8/27/17
to
In message <u0f5qc1fkfkh285j9...@4ax.com>, at 13:39:24 on
Sun, 27 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
journeys which just happen to be inside the Oyster area, and paid for by
Oyster.
eg Gatwick to Elstree (surely soon also Luton Airport Parkway).
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf
--
Roland Perry
Sun, 27 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
>>And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
>>geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
>>passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
>>the UK?
>
>Why do the ticketing systems of one TOC work on all TOCs? It is for
>passenger convenience. The London Underground is the hub of the
>passenger rail system. As YOU say it accounts for half of the UK's
>passenger journeys. Many of those journeys start outwith their
>system, yet they reserve the right to be an exception to the rules.
I'm more interested in why the lack of discount for *National Rail*
>>geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
>>passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
>>the UK?
>
>Why do the ticketing systems of one TOC work on all TOCs? It is for
>passenger convenience. The London Underground is the hub of the
>passenger rail system. As YOU say it accounts for half of the UK's
>passenger journeys. Many of those journeys start outwith their
>system, yet they reserve the right to be an exception to the rules.
journeys which just happen to be inside the Oyster area, and paid for by
Oyster.
eg Gatwick to Elstree (surely soon also Luton Airport Parkway).
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf
--
Roland Perry
e27002 aurora
Aug 27, 2017, 9:43:39 AM8/27/17
to
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 13:56:38 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:
>In message <u0f5qc1fkfkh285j9...@4ax.com>, at 13:39:24 on
>Sun, 27 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
>>>And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
>>>geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
>>>passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
>>>the UK?
>>
>>Why do the ticketing systems of one TOC work on all TOCs? It is for
>>passenger convenience. The London Underground is the hub of the
>>passenger rail system. As YOU say it accounts for half of the UK's
>>passenger journeys. Many of those journeys start outwith their
>>system, yet they reserve the right to be an exception to the rules.
>
>I'm more interested in why the lack of discount for *National Rail*
>journeys which just happen to be inside the Oyster area, and paid for by
>Oyster.
Oyster is TfL's baby and they operate to their own rules ignoring the
discounts to which passengers are entitled.
>
>egg Gatwick to Elstree (surely soon also Luton Airport Parkway).
>
>http://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf
If they pull these stunts on the Elizabeth Line there may be a
backlash from passengers on the former Western Region.
wrote:
>In message <u0f5qc1fkfkh285j9...@4ax.com>, at 13:39:24 on
>Sun, 27 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
>>>And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
>>>geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
>>>passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
>>>the UK?
>>
>>Why do the ticketing systems of one TOC work on all TOCs? It is for
>>passenger convenience. The London Underground is the hub of the
>>passenger rail system. As YOU say it accounts for half of the UK's
>>passenger journeys. Many of those journeys start outwith their
>>system, yet they reserve the right to be an exception to the rules.
>
>I'm more interested in why the lack of discount for *National Rail*
>journeys which just happen to be inside the Oyster area, and paid for by
>Oyster.
discounts to which passengers are entitled.
>
>egg Gatwick to Elstree (surely soon also Luton Airport Parkway).
>
>http://content.tfl.gov.uk/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf
If they pull these stunts on the Elizabeth Line there may be a
backlash from passengers on the former Western Region.
e27002 aurora
Aug 27, 2017, 9:56:21 AM8/27/17
to
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 06:44:47 -0700 (PDT), "R. Mark Clayton"
<notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, 27 August 2017 13:47:06 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
>> Robert <copper...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 2017-08-27 12:12:17 +0000, e27002 aurora said:
>> >
>> Labour mayor, while the DfT is headed by a right-wing secretary of state.
>> Ergo, everything that TfL does must be bad, and everything the DfT does
>> must have been for the best possible reasons.
>>
We can safely ignore Nigel's haverings. This about passenger value
for money, and passenger convenience. If a customer is entitled to a
discount he should receive it.
>> The fact that London has a smart card that actually works, while the Ft.'s
>> preferred ITSO standard smart card is neither standard nor smart, is
>> neither here nor there.
>
>But everyone else uses ITSO.
The UK need to have a common standard developed, it should be legally
available across all public railway and bus networks.
<notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sunday, 27 August 2017 13:47:06 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
>> Robert <copper...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On 2017-08-27 12:12:17 +0000, e27002 aurora said:
>> >
>> > I'm confused. Why have you posted the same text with two slightly
>> > different subject lines a few hours apart?
>> >
>> > different subject lines a few hours apart?
>> >
>> > And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
>> > geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
>> > passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
>> > the UK?
>>
>> I think we know why Adrian thinks the way he does: TfL is controlled by a
>> > geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
>> > passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
>> > the UK?
>>
>> Labour mayor, while the DfT is headed by a right-wing secretary of state.
>> Ergo, everything that TfL does must be bad, and everything the DfT does
>> must have been for the best possible reasons.
>>
We can safely ignore Nigel's haverings. This about passenger value
for money, and passenger convenience. If a customer is entitled to a
discount he should receive it.
>> The fact that London has a smart card that actually works, while the Ft.'s
>> preferred ITSO standard smart card is neither standard nor smart, is
>> neither here nor there.
>
>But everyone else uses ITSO.
The UK need to have a common standard developed, it should be legally
available across all public railway and bus networks.
Roland Perry
Aug 27, 2017, 11:29:48 AM8/27/17
to
In message <lej5qcp79gl8m9ill...@4ax.com>, at 14:56:21 on
--
Roland Perry
Sun, 27 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
>The UK need to have a common standard developed, it should be legally
>available across all public railway and bus networks.
It's called "cash".
>available across all public railway and bus networks.
--
Roland Perry
Certes
Aug 27, 2017, 11:34:18 AM8/27/17
to
e27002 aurora
Aug 28, 2017, 3:41:20 AM8/28/17
to
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 18:38:15 -0500, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
wrote:
>In article <lej5qcp79gl8m9ill...@4ax.com>,
>That was supposed to be ITSO but even within the same company's operations
>it isn't inter-available
Someone dropped the ball on that one!
>and anyway on card storage technology is
>obsolescent now.
So, what's next?
wrote:
>In article <lej5qcp79gl8m9ill...@4ax.com>,
>it isn't inter-available
Someone dropped the ball on that one!
>and anyway on card storage technology is
>obsolescent now.
So, what's next?
e27002 aurora
Aug 28, 2017, 3:45:54 AM8/28/17
to
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 20:20:44 +0100, Robert <copper...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On 2017-08-27 13:44:47 +0000, R. Mark Clayton said:
>
>> On Sunday, 27 August 2017 13:47:06 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
>methods take over.
So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about
a year when their franchise ended!
One hopes other railways are not going to copy LU's example and charge
straight to debit cards. That would make discounted tickets and
seasons very hard to implement.
wrote:
>On 2017-08-27 13:44:47 +0000, R. Mark Clayton said:
>
>> On Sunday, 27 August 2017 13:47:06 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
>>>> I'm confused. Why have you posted the same text with two slightly
>>>> different subject lines a few hours apart?
>>>>
>>>> And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
>>>> geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
>>>> passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
>>>> the UK?
>>>
>>> I think we know why Adrian thinks the way he does: TfL is controlled by a
>>> Labour mayor, while the DfT is headed by a right-wing secretary of state.
>>> Ergo, everything that TfL does must be bad, and everything the DfT does
>>> must have been for the best possible reasons.
>>>
>>> The fact that London has a smart card that actually works, while the DfT's
>>>> different subject lines a few hours apart?
>>>>
>>>> And why do you think a ticketing system designed for a limited
>>>> geographic area and for a system which carries half the total number of
>>>> passengers in the UK should be in line with that needed for the rest of
>>>> the UK?
>>>
>>> I think we know why Adrian thinks the way he does: TfL is controlled by a
>>> Labour mayor, while the DfT is headed by a right-wing secretary of state.
>>> Ergo, everything that TfL does must be bad, and everything the DfT does
>>> must have been for the best possible reasons.
>>>
>>> preferred ITSO standard smart card is neither standard nor smart, is
>>> neither here nor there.
>>
>> But everyone else uses ITSO.
>
>DfT has abandoned it. It will now probably fade away as more modern
>>> neither here nor there.
>>
>> But everyone else uses ITSO.
>
>methods take over.
So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about
a year when their franchise ended!
One hopes other railways are not going to copy LU's example and charge
straight to debit cards. That would make discounted tickets and
seasons very hard to implement.
Roland Perry
Aug 28, 2017, 4:28:08 AM8/28/17
to
In message <nai7qc93a09p6m1ss...@4ax.com>, at 08:45:54 on
Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
--
Roland Perry
Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
>>DfT has abandoned it. It will now probably fade away as more modern
>>methods take over.
>
>So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about
>a year when their franchise ended!
That's not true, it was one of the first to be launched, back in 2009.
>>methods take over.
>
>So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about
>a year when their franchise ended!
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Aug 28, 2017, 4:39:08 AM8/28/17
to
In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7n...@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.
What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the
railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
let alone how to get from here to there.
Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a
smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.
The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.
Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to
quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just*
Visa/Mastercard?
Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.
I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.
--
Roland Perry
>>and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.
>
>So, what's next?
They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
>
>So, what's next?
pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.
What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the
railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
let alone how to get from here to there.
Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a
smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.
The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.
Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to
quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just*
Visa/Mastercard?
Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.
I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.
--
Roland Perry
e27002 aurora
Aug 28, 2017, 5:39:41 AM8/28/17
to
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:37:29 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:
A few months back my replacement debit card arrived from my US
bankers. Finally! it is chip & pin. That is close to a decade after
the UK banks. BUT, it is not contactless.
wrote:
bankers. Finally! it is chip & pin. That is close to a decade after
the UK banks. BUT, it is not contactless.
e27002 aurora
Aug 28, 2017, 5:42:48 AM8/28/17
to
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:
OK. I only became of it after a publicity push a while back. It will
be interesting to see what SWT do. Overall, I am not optimistic about
the new franchise. Stagecoach have a better reputation than First
Group.
wrote:
be interesting to see what SWT do. Overall, I am not optimistic about
the new franchise. Stagecoach have a better reputation than First
Group.
Graeme Wall
Aug 28, 2017, 7:17:47 AM8/28/17
to
On 28/08/2017 10:42, e27002 aurora wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <nai7qc93a09p6m1ss...@4ax.com>, at 08:45:54 on
>> Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
>>>> DfT has abandoned it. It will now probably fade away as more modern
>>>> methods take over.
>>>
>>> So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about
>>> a year when their franchise ended!
>>
>> That's not true, it was one of the first to be launched, back in 2009.
>
> OK. I only became of it after a publicity push a while back. It will
> be interesting to see what SWT do. O
Can't see SWT doing anything now :-)
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 09:20:13 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <nai7qc93a09p6m1ss...@4ax.com>, at 08:45:54 on
>> Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
>>>> DfT has abandoned it. It will now probably fade away as more modern
>>>> methods take over.
>>>
>>> So, what comes next? SWT had only been promoting their card for about
>>> a year when their franchise ended!
>>
>> That's not true, it was one of the first to be launched, back in 2009.
>
> OK. I only became of it after a publicity push a while back. It will
> be interesting to see what SWT do. O
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.
Recliner
Aug 28, 2017, 7:19:44 AM8/28/17
to
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7n...@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
> Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.
>>
>> So, what's next?
>
> They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
> pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.
>
> What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the
> railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
> let alone how to get from here to there.
>
> Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
> MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
> special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
> trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
> trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a
> smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.
>
> The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.
>
> Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
> pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to
> quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just*
> Visa/Mastercard?
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-contactless-payment/apple-pay>
> In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7n...@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
> Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.
>>
>> So, what's next?
>
> They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
> pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.
>
> What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the
> railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
> let alone how to get from here to there.
>
> Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
> MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
> special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
> trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
> trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a
> smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.
>
> The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.
>
> Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
> pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to
> quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just*
> Visa/Mastercard?
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-contactless-payment/android-pay>
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-contactless-payment/barclaycard-and-barclays-contactless-mobile>
> Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.
>
> I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
> be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.
contactless.
Recliner
Aug 28, 2017, 7:31:44 AM8/28/17
to
Roland Perry
Aug 28, 2017, 8:38:42 AM8/28/17
to
In message
<2128631847.525611715.766279.recliner.ng-btinternet.com@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 11:15:22 on Mon, 28 Aug 2017, Recliner
<recli...@btinternet.com> remarked:
the Apple-pay logo?
><https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont
>actless-payment/android-pay>
>
><https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont
account) is a far as I can tell not available in contactless at all.
Maybe they don't like the idea of unauthorised overdrafts (contrary to
popular belief, regular contactless transactions don't necessarily debit
your balance in real time, and of course TfL ones won't hit until
overnight).
--
Roland Perry
<2128631847.525611715.766279.recliner.ng-btinternet.com@news.eternal-sept
ember.org>, at 11:15:22 on Mon, 28 Aug 2017, Recliner
<recli...@btinternet.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7n...@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
>> Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.
>>>
>>> So, what's next?
>>
>> They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
>> pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.
>>
>> What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the
>> railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
>> let alone how to get from here to there.
>>
>> Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
>> MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
>> special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
>> trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
>> trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a
>> smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.
>>
>> The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.
>>
>> Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
>> pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to
>> quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just*
>> Visa/Mastercard?
>
><https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont
>actless-payment/apple-pay>
They must have slipped that in without me noticing. Where on the gate is
>> In message <95i7qcl5ooa8d9s7n...@4ax.com>, at 08:41:20 on
>> Mon, 28 Aug 2017, e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> and anyway on card storage technology is obsolescent now.
>>>
>>> So, what's next?
>>
>> They are attempting to externalise the cost to the customer, so that the
>> pays for the storage medium (a smartphone) and its connectivity.
>>
>> What's interesting from a technology-watcher's point of view is that the
>> railways don't have the slightest idea how this is all going to end up,
>> let alone how to get from here to there.
>>
>> Since ITSO from 2009 we've had numerous pilots: barcodes on phones using
>> MMS or other generic technology, barcodes on phones delivered by a
>> special app, combined credit card and Oyster (to combat 'card bloat'),
>> trying to second guess the ticketing cost by examining your location
>> trails, NFC on phones [basically turning the phone's back cover into a
>> smartcard], and even embedding a traditional smartcard in the phone.
>>
>> The only one that's showing staying power is Contactless Credit Cards.
>>
>> Hmm, I wonder if that's planned to work with any third party
>> pay-by-phone contactless technologies [from Apple Pay via Google pay to
>> quirky ones like PayQwiq - pass the siqwbag], other than *just*
>> Visa/Mastercard?
>
><https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont
>actless-payment/apple-pay>
the Apple-pay logo?
><https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont
>actless-payment/android-pay>
>
><https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont
>actless-payment/barclaycard-and-barclays-contactless-mobile>
>
>
>> Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.
>>
>> I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
>> be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.
>
>Like you, I somehow doubt it. I don't think many US credit cards are
>contactless.
Nor are all my UK ones. The one I'd use the most (debit card on business
>
>
>> Carrying a physical Credit Card is just so passé, my dharling.
>>
>> I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
>> be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.
>
>Like you, I somehow doubt it. I don't think many US credit cards are
>contactless.
account) is a far as I can tell not available in contactless at all.
Maybe they don't like the idea of unauthorised overdrafts (contrary to
popular belief, regular contactless transactions don't necessarily debit
your balance in real time, and of course TfL ones won't hit until
overnight).
--
Roland Perry
John Levine
Aug 28, 2017, 3:06:40 PM8/28/17
to
In article <OJnWN5uJ...@perry.co.uk>,
chip and signature.
If your friend's credit card doesn't work, that's probably because
it's not contactless. In my experience the majority of US cards are
still not, even though they have contact chips.
With respect to Apple Pay and Android Pay, it was my impression that
they use the same interface as contactless cards, so they should
work automagically on any contactless payment device. I should try
my phone when I'm in London in the spring.
R's,
John
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
>be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.
I've used my U.S. AmEx on the tube. Worked fine. It's contactless
>I have a visitor arriving at Heathrow from the USA next week, and it'll
>be interesting to see if his credit card works the TfL gates.
chip and signature.
If your friend's credit card doesn't work, that's probably because
it's not contactless. In my experience the majority of US cards are
still not, even though they have contact chips.
With respect to Apple Pay and Android Pay, it was my impression that
they use the same interface as contactless cards, so they should
work automagically on any contactless payment device. I should try
my phone when I'm in London in the spring.
R's,
John
Mark Bestley
Aug 28, 2017, 4:54:04 PM8/28/17
to
> ><https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont
> >actless-payment/android-pay>
> >
> ><https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/contactless/other-methods-of-cont
> >actless-payment/barclaycard-and-barclays-contactless-mobile>
> >
> >
Mark
Anna Noyd-Dryver
Aug 29, 2017, 3:21:42 PM8/29/17
to
e27002 aurora <adrian...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 12:43:30 -0500, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> wrote:
>
>> I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in
>> London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts
>> given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat
>> haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration
>> status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the
>> ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.
>>
>> But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless
>> became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder
>> because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard
>> discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless
>> travel.
>>
>> So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My
>> question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against
>> their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.
>
> As the hub at the center of the UK's rail network, I have never
> understood why London's Rapid Transit system must be the exception to
> the rules apply to the rest of the UK's railways. Its ticketing
> arrangements should work in line with the other railways.
>
Expensive walk-up fares but Oxford Circus-Paddington for 3p if you book
> On Mon, 07 Aug 2017 12:43:30 -0500, rosen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> wrote:
>
>> I thought when the Mayor wanted to extend Oyster to National Rail route in
>> London ATOC insisted that railcards had to be recognised and discounts
>> given. So the system to register railcards on Oyster cards was somewhat
>> haphazardly introduced. For example you couldn't check railcard registration
>> status at a ticket machine. It was only when they decided to close all the
>> ticket offices that they had to make it possible as it now is.
>>
>> But for people living outside London who aren't regular visitors contactless
>> became a much better option when introduced unless you are a railcard holder
>> because, although Oyster cards have to be registered to get railcard
>> discounts, they have not enabled railcard discounts against Contactless
>> travel.
>>
>> So NR passengers can't get their railcard discounts using contactless. My
>> question is why ATOC put up with this? It seems to go completely against
>> their agreement to allow Oyster to NR routes.
>
> As the hub at the center of the UK's rail network, I have never
> understood why London's Rapid Transit system must be the exception to
> the rules apply to the rest of the UK's railways. Its ticketing
> arrangements should work in line with the other railways.
>
three weeks ahead and travel on a specific train?
Anna Noyd-Dryver
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